Staff Mastery (SM)

[Almighty1]

Hello,

I was searching for some Staff Mastery (SM) videos on YouTube and found only very few :P

From the ice age of CoR:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koVNVkaSNHs

Another one:- (couple more on this channel, but they show Warju Style)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mklc7MFpJY

Comparitively new :D :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzDzWHYK_-0

So, I was wondering maybe its time for SM to be brought back to its original self, so that there are more warlocks who try it out and maybe play in this mode.

Right now, it seems you need jewels to do some good dmg in war (with auras and ally buffs)

What do you guys think? :D

P.S
Something out of the blue to discuss on :)

[MrFreaky]

to its original self? I know it used to be +50 on each buff. This was back when the level cap was 50. now that was OP!!!

when are you going to ditch your green realm and come hang out with me ;)

[Almighty1]

to its original self? I know it used to be +50 on each buff. This was back when the level cap was 50. now that was OP!!!



Yes, +50 for each buff and the dmg bonus passive (Combat Magic) was 30% instead of 15% (now). It was OP back then, but now since the lvl cap has changed, new armours with more AP have come, I don't think it would be that OP as it was before.

Very few play SM nowadays, maybe changing it back to the old self will help in increasing the number of SM users :D

when are you going to ditch your green realm and come hang out with me ;)

You can always come to syrtis, farming wmc and grinding is a pain in the ass for a non-xim user like me :P

[MrFreaky]

Yes, +50 for each buff and the dmg bonus passive (Combat Magic) was 30% instead of 15% (now).

30% combat magic? i really don't remember this. wow.. that's insane. we'd be critting around 750 lol. no wonder they nerfed it.

the issue with reverting sm to its former self is that NGD do not want this. they do not dare support the sm mage, or the warju if you'd prefer. they will not encourage this particular practice because it does not conform with their idea of the "warlock" or "conjurer".

while i will wholeheartedly support the reintroduction of old sm (obviously :p :p), it will not happen. besides.. we'd be essentially taking the role of the archer and suppressing the generel idea that mages should be of a supporting figure in an RvR situation.

[Almighty1]

30% combat magic? i really don't remember this. wow.. that's insane. we'd be critting around 750 lol. no wonder they nerfed it.


Well its what i remember, I do not have proof of this though. Somewhere i remember it being 30%. I maybe wrong.

suppressing the generel idea that mages should be of a supporting figure in an RvR situation.

Then why would they put a Staff Mastery tree if they didn't want people to try it and play that style :P

[Hollow-Ichigo]

Then why would they put a Staff Mastery tree if they didn't want people to try it and play that style :P

I always thought SM was only there for mage grind. Otherwise it would take forever.

[Almighty1]

Well if you can use it to kill mobs, you can also use it to kill enemies :D

[C4RB0N4]

I don't see point for this to be honest. if you don't have good items for sm you can simply go for spell setup, rvr spam setup and if you have good items for sm you are very powerful with good setup and position. Main drawbacks of sm is you sacrifice your ccs to take sm spells and, if you're warlock, your defense is low which will cause problems that archers do not encounter as often as sm lock would.

[Almighty1]

Well getting items for SM is really easy. Nobody wants such stuff, most of the items i have are given to me for free, bcoz no other locks need them. In fact, finding good gear for spell setup is much harder and costlier than SM gear.

And as for points, i have almost all cc's in my setup, you only need 30 points for the SM tree (you get 20 from lightning ice blast fireball mana burn) and getting the rest 10 points is easy. I just reduce my cc level and change my combo accordingly.

And for defense. Its all the same for both SM and as a spellcaster, but like i told there are a lot of items for SM (bcoz no one wants them), you can just choose the ones with good resists and enhance them (from enhancements from x-mas trees like i did).

:D

PS : Taking the case of a lock only, Warjurers are better of playing as a conju (benifits the realm :) )

[MrFreaky]

Main drawbacks of sm is you sacrifice your ccs to take sm spells and, if you're warlock, your defense is low which will cause problems that archers do not encounter as often as sm lock would.

hmmm, i wouldn't really agree that playing sm ultimately means fewer CCs. I think i have a respectable amount of CCs in my setup. sure, sure.. as a spell caster i do tend to have that extra CC such as twister/terror, but overall the sacrifice is very acute.

defense is pretty much untouched. this really depends on the level of windwall.

[MrFreaky]

Well getting items for SM is really easy. Nobody wants such stuff, most of the items i have are given to me for free, bcoz no other locks need them. In fact, finding good gear for spell setup is much harder and costlier than SM gear.

lol this is true. theres pretty much only 1 guy in Ignis who buys that unwanted mage SM gear that they can't get rid of .. ME :D

obtaining decent SM gear is manageable. The issue with playing SM is the play style itself. i don't know about yourself, but i find SM to be a bit of a headache, and i think this is why we find so few SM mages. constant buffing and crippled CS are two of the main factors which contribute to low SM population.

i wonder if SM is active in RA? hmm

[Hollow-Ichigo]

i wonder if SM is active in RA? hmm

Nope, some warlocks on Ra just get the usual area setup. Apart from warlocks that hunt all day ofcourse, they just max out mentals.

[C4RB0N4]

And for defense. Its all the same for both SM and as a spellcaster, but like i told there are a lot of items for SM (bcoz no one wants them), you can just choose the ones with good resists and enhance them (from enhancements from x-mas trees like i did).

about defense i meant hiding behind trees whenever you don't cast. as sm mage you can't do that as far as i know :P

about gears. i did not mean they are hard to get or something. my point was sm is good with good gear, and if you dont have it you still can easily adopt spellcaster playstyle.

about ccs. i honestly believe warlock should contain areas even with sm, as it's only reason why it's different from archer, however it's possible with sm setup too

[Sentan]

SM is something that I always respect :) big PLUS from me :)

[Almighty1]

lol this is true. theres pretty much only 1 guy in Ignis who buys that unwanted mage SM gear that they can't get rid of .. ME :D


Same here in Syrtis :D

The issue with playing SM is the play style itself. i don't know about yourself, but i find SM to be a bit of a headache, and i think this is why we find so few SM mages. constant buffing and crippled CS are two of the main factors which contribute to low SM population.


Well the buffing takes time i agree, but cs is okay. I have passive 15% from wm passive and a 13.7% staff, which is decent amount of cs in rvr. Anything more than that is required in pvp I guess. I switch between 4 staves, kind of testing another one (med 25 with as), so in total 5 right now. A bit hard with all the buffs and weapon switches but its worth it.

2 plus points about SM :-
You don't have to worry about DIZZY, the all time most feared cc for warlocks :P
And you can pew pew back the archers and they start running from you, you get more than 25 range for it :D

[Almighty1]

about defense i meant hiding behind trees whenever you don't cast. as sm mage you can't do that as far as i know :P


It is hard to beat a spellcaster warlock in PvP (I did try it out), but in rvr they die pretty fast.(SM has more than 30+ range :D).
I haven't tried SM in pvp much, I think its pretty hard if you are not able to kill him within the duration of the first buffing. Will test it out with friends.

about gears. i did not mean they are hard to get or something. my point was sm is good with good gear

The old SM tree, didnt need for ppl to have jewels and all, which is why maybe reverting back to it will help more ppl to play SM.

about ccs. i honestly believe warlock should contain areas even with sm, as it's only reason why it's different from archer, however it's possible with sm setup too

It is possible, you will have to sacrifice on the level of the ccs though, you cannot get metoer 5 and silence 5 (etc):D

[Almighty1]

SM is something that I always respect :) big PLUS from me :)

You should play SM man, you have op gear afaik :D

Haven't seen a single Alsius lock who is on perma SM mode.

[Sentan]

You should play SM man, you have op gear afaik :D


Yeah need to gather WMC for amu first :)

[Almighty1]

Yeah need to gather WMC for amu first :)

Thought you had dragon amu, I remember so.

[Sentan]

Thought you had dragon amu, I remember so.

Hunter and Knight both full jewelled but still too lazy to swap between chars :) anyway gonna buy 10%cs 40 fire amu :)

[Almighty1]

Hunter and Knight both full jewelled but still too lazy to swap between chars :) anyway gonna buy 10%cs 40 fire amu :)

Jewels enough for 2 chars -_-

Well, I hope we can see someone from alsius playing SM :D

[mind-trick]

When i have hybrid setup (sm + areas & ccs) and im fully buffed I often find myself using spells instead of pewpewing anyway, since there are a lot of archers i feel like the area cc role is more in demand than the role of ranged dps. Thats why there arent many sm locks. But its definitely a fun setup

[Anunnaki]

I like playing it those days with conju, with life tree lvl 4. i can heal and defend my self :devil:

[Almighty1]

When i have hybrid setup (sm + areas & ccs) and im fully buffed I often find myself using spells instead of pewpewing anyway, since there are a lot of archers i feel like the area cc role is more in demand than the role of ranged dps. Thats why there arent many sm locks. But its definitely a fun setup

Everybody has SM + areas setup. I cast an area and then pew pew, esp conjus (Steel Skin has no effect :devil: )
What do you do during the cool down period of the area spell ? :D
Who are you in-game? Haven't seen an SM lock other freaky.

[Almighty1]

I like playing it those days with conju, with life tree lvl 4. i can heal and defend my self :devil:

Conjus deal less dmg when compared to a lock bcoz of the dmg difference that intelligence gives.

[mind-trick]

Everybody have SM + areas setup. I cast an area and then pew pew, esp conjus (Steel Skin has no effect :devil: )
What do you do during the cool down period of the area spell ? :D
Who are you in-game? Haven't seen an SM lock other freaky.

I do a lot of things like stealing mana, strafing, other ccs etc. Especially strafing and positioning. And SM requires you to stand still if you wanna pewpew effectively. And by the time im done getting into position to shoot, my buffs are nearly over. Fair enough. I have a lock in ra and i only play there since haven is dead. My name is Eunw (if you happen to know him). i know my stuff. There are quite a few sm locks out there, some that use sm occasionaly

[Hayir]

You could as well play marks :P

[Pery3000]

Lol the Glory days of SM. Back when Zarkit was OP. Furest killing people in seconds. Surfy taking forts herself. I also remember when chocolate was used with SM. Old video of German mage doing it at agg. Can't find the video anymore but it was crazy.

[Almighty1]

You could as well play marks :P

Boring , clicking from 50m. Playing SM warlock is more challenging,, if you don't position properly you are dead :D

[Almighty1]

Lol the Glory days of SM. Back when Zarkit was OP. Furest killing people in seconds. Surfy taking forts herself. I also remember when chocolate was used with SM. Old video of German mage doing it at agg. Can't find the video anymore but it was crazy.

I remember fuerst with Exotic Empanada at pn2 lol, about 6-7 died by the time the zerg dismounted.

[MrFreaky]

lol fuerst. good guy. you know he had no jewels right. he just had insane attack speed. he also used light tunic which was only in ignis at the time.

Beijing had jewels and he hit hard.. real hard. but he never used a 30m staff. i think range 30 is essential.

also.... another reason why NGD do not support the idea of SM (in war): did you not realize that there are no 30m staves after level 50? yup... and when NGD decide to raise the cap to 65/70.. i will be the first to complain because my Dragon Eye 30m will become obsolete. i currently use levels 40 staves, but as the level cap raises, my damage will plummet.

[MrFreaky]

You could as well play marks :P

this is very true... hence why NGD will not enhance SM in war.

but as long as the marks does not have extreme gear + full jewels, which i believe is very rare on Haven, the sm lock will always out dps the marks so long as the SM mage has above average gear. our normals will be significantly lower, but the overall AS definitely makes up for it.

it is also nice that with a 30m staff + projection, archers cannot kite SM mages. for every turn and shoot, the mage will hit twice... forcing the archers to come into close quarters or make a run for it.

small things which encourage me to not play spells over SM. :D

[Almighty1]

lol fuerst. good guy. you know he had no jewels right. he just had insane attack speed. he also used light tunic which was only in ignis at the time.

RoL was also available only in Ignis in the beginning. Fuerst never showed me his gear. I had talked to him after NGD raised the lvl cap to 60, he said his staff no longer made any impact and he took to spellcasting. And I never saw much of him after it. :(

Beijing had jewels and he hit hard.. real hard.
Met him only few times in the wz when i was a low level, died before i could even understand what was happening :D
Paavali is another person who also hits very hard for a conju.

i think range 30 is essential.

Yes, especially for a warlock. Conjus can manage with a 25 med, bcoz they have the defense to make up for the range. Locks definitely need a r30 staff.
I use Master Staff as my r30, but switch to 25 med / 20 fast once I'm close.

also.... another reason why NGD do not support the idea of SM (in war): did you not realize that there are no 30m staves after level 50? yup... and when NGD decide to raise the cap to 65/70.. i will be the first to complain because my Dragon Eye 30m will become obsolete. i currently use levels 40 staves, but as the level cap raises, my damage will plummet.

Well, I guess its true. Same case with the Magnanite weapons, only 1 new Staff (25 Fast) was introduced, lvl 50 RO had 2 Magna staves (a 20 fast and 30 med). Completely eliminated all the r30 staves when they raised the level cap. So sad.

[Almighty1]

this is very true... hence why NGD will not enhance SM in war.
Probably :(

but as long as the marks does not have extreme gear + full jewels, which i believe is very rare on Haven, the sm lock will always out dps the marks so long as the SM mage has above average gear.
You can out hit a jewelled marks, but you need wmc/drag amu.

it is also nice that with a 30m staff + projection, archers cannot kite SM mages. for every turn and shoot, the mage will hit twice... forcing the archers to come into close quarters or make a run for it.

small things which encourage me to not play spells over SM. :D

Very true. Same here :D

[Sentan]

imo Beijing was the best SM player of all time :) I remember his OP staff, 600+ normals with v fast speed 25-30r + old zarkits o.O

[Takeyo]

You can out hit a jewelled marks, but you need wmc/drag amu.




You can, with the right weapon. Little-known fact: warlock has the second highest attack damage scale next to barbarian. That just blows me away. Please don't tell the authorities. It would ruin all the fun, if it got nerfed. :naughty:

[C4RB0N4]

also.... another reason why NGD do not support the idea of SM (in war): did you not realize that there are no 30m staves after level 50? yup... and when NGD decide to raise the cap to 65/70.. i will be the first to complain because my Dragon Eye 30m will become obsolete. i currently use levels 40 staves, but as the level cap raises, my damage will plummet.

have you ever tried wm staff? i'm yet to lay hands on good sm staff (+40dmg) however wm staff does pretty awesome dmg (esp with great gem) which gets ignored by locks in haven. not sure if it's better but i really suggest you to try it out before saying

[MrFreaky]

have you ever tried wm staff? i'm yet to lay hands on good sm staff (+40dmg) however wm staff does pretty awesome dmg (esp with great gem) which gets ignored by locks in haven. not sure if it's better but i really suggest you to try it out before saying

i have not tried the WM staff. it's a nice staff to consider if you were lacking other SM staves. but staves which easily out DPS the WM staff are so common to come by on the market, that it's not worth to settle for the WM staff.

judging from the staff itself which has a base of 60-80 fire and only 1 socket available, there is no need for me to actually purchase it and test its DPS. it's quite obvious that the epic lower level staves out DPS the WM staff.

[Lebeau]

Almost all are completely valid points. Current SM truly is weaksauce, & therefore is not as viable a gameplay-option, & so, only few use it now.

Why?:

1) Level 60 cap increased all endgame-level armors' protection, & existing armor-protection & damage-negation self-&-area buffs all work by %, & are not linear, as SM damage is (except for Combat Magic).

2) SM's base damage is not even as high it was when armors & hp's were lower (when level cap was 50, & SM's base damage & buffs were slightly higher).

3) Inexplicably, there are no droppable/boxable endgame-level range-30 staves in CoR atm.

4) SM requires a spell tree of 19, & 25-30 power points (at least, & that's a vast expenditure)) to get out of it what can be had, yet except for one passive, all of it is negated by a single MS, & cannot be recast quickly (due to both the number of, & the mostly-2min.-cd's, of SM-buffs).

Thus, SM-users face more overall protection versus less overall damage, at a shortened range, with very lengthy SM-spell cd's.

Solutions?:

1) Slightly more base damage from Magnification-buffs.

2) Droppable/boxable range-30 endgame-level staves.

3) Shorter cd's (& global cd's) for all SM damage/a.s./range buffs (say 30-or-so secs/very short?).

:lighten:

[Almighty1]

have you ever tried wm staff? i'm yet to lay hands on good sm staff (+40dmg) however wm staff does pretty awesome dmg (esp with great gem) which gets ignored by locks in haven. not sure if it's better but i really suggest you to try it out before saying

I have tried WM staff. It's not very great. I have a Staff Mastery dmg calculator (made with help from Dr.Lawz :D). The only good r30 staff (lvl55)is eve staff, it gives you additional dmg once you start attacking. Idk why though. I'll test it out more.

[Almighty1]

Solutions?:

1) Slightly more base damage from Magnification-buffs.

2) Droppable/boxable range-30 endgame-level staves.

3) Shorter cd's (& global cd's) for all SM damage/a.s./range buffs (say 30-or-so secs/very short?).

:lighten:

I would agree with points 1 and 2, but not 3. Implementing 3 will only make it easier to play SM. I feel SM is very hard to play on a lock (poor def, less range compared to archers). You need to constantly position yourself very well to avoid rushes or getting cc'd from archers bcoz u have less cc(or lower lvl CCS to get ou from it).
And also you need keep track of the buff duration , coz you need a decent amount of time to full buff again.

And for me, I like this difficulty. It makes me want to play this style more. I personally do not want SM style to be made easy. But it should be buffed up a bit more.

[Lebeau]

...

Another thing I forgot to mention is that jewelry damage adds (whether older &/or newer ones) are linear for staff mastery (i.e. straight numeric additions), as the tree has no %-based damage boosts such as Recharged Arrows, Dirty Fighting, Deadeye, Cold Blood, Berserk, Fulminating, normal + #% spells, etc. As such, the newer harder-hitting lvl-60 weapons (for archers & barbs) net an even greater damage addition due to having these %-based damage buffs. Thus, the subclass damage differences between then (lvl 50 cap) & now (60 lvl cap) are even wider & more imbalanced than I had already said. Alas....

-As to cd's, Almighty, 30 secs is merely my own balance suggestion ... they could be made 45 secs, or even 60 secs ... but the current 2 min. cd's/short gcd's are just entirely too long imho in balanced relation to the very little that one obtains from each buff.

[Almighty1]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that jewelry damage adds (whether older &/or newer ones) are linear for staff mastery (i.e. straight numeric additions), as the tree has no %-based damage boosts such as Recharged Arrows, Dirty Fighting, Deadeye, Cold Blood, Berserk, Fulminating, normal + #% spells, etc. As such, the newer harder-hitting lvl-60 weapons (for archers & barbs) net an even greater damage addition due to having these %-based damage buffs. Thus, the subclass damage differences between then (lvl 50 cap) & now (60 lvl cap) are even wider & more imbalanced than I had already said. Alas....

Yes, this is true. Warlocks do lack spells/passives which give them % dmg bonus, which is why we are forced to look for more speed with adequate dmg. Pure dmg won't help locks with DPS.

-As to cd's, Almighty, 30 secs is merely my own balance suggestion ... they could be made 45 secs, or even 60 secs ... but the current 2 min. cd's/short gcd's are just entirely too long imho in balanced relation to the very little that one obtains from each buff.

I don't think the duration should be more than the cool down, bcoz it would be op then. Duration should remain the same as Cool down. The GCD or the casting time can be reduced to makes the buffing up faster. It's pretty time consuming now.

[Sentan]

What I'm missing in Staff Mastery Tree is spell such as South Cross or Shield Piercing which scales with +110/120/130/140/150% Attack Damage Bonus... even base +100% Attack Damage spell with 40 range would be cool :) helpful to finish enemies whenever they are out of range. :D

[Almighty1]

What I'm missing in Staff Mastery Tree is spell such as South Cross or Shield Piercing which scales with +110/120/130/140/150% Attack Damage Bonus... even base +100% Attack Damage spell with 40 range would be cool :) helpful to finish enemies whenever they are out of range. :D

Now that would be cool :D

[Kimahri_Ronso]

What I'm missing in Staff Mastery Tree is spell such as South Cross or Shield Piercing which scales with +110/120/130/140/150% Attack Damage Bonus... even base +100% Attack Damage spell with 40 range would be cool :) helpful to finish enemies whenever they are out of range. :D

Ffs, no.
Why warlocks wanna play as a marksman too?
Marksman is plain boring, range + phewphew.

Warlocks are spellcasters, they are meant to use magic and not normal hits. Sorry Allmighty and Mr Freaky, but SM and AS is something that other subclasses should value more, I know you can skill it, but you shouldn't use it. Right, NGD's fault too, years of begging for making warlocks REALLY warlocks will happen (soon but not soon :p) hopefully. Untill that, I suggest you to try some other subclass(es). :)

[Sentan]

Ffs, no.
Why warlocks wanna play as a marksman too?
Marksman is plain boring, range + phewphew.

Warlocks are spellcasters, they are meant to use magic and not normal hits.

atm Marksman spells deal much more dmg than lock ones :) even AoE spell like Fire Rain with 30 sec cd hits for 800+... just take a look at Arrow Mastery tree and spells placed there.

[standistortion]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that jewelry damage adds (whether older &/or newer ones) are linear for staff mastery (i.e. straight numeric additions), as the tree has no %-based damage boosts such as Recharged Arrows, Dirty Fighting, Deadeye, Cold Blood, Berserk, Fulminating, normal + #% spells, etc. As such, the newer harder-hitting lvl-60 weapons (for archers & barbs) net an even greater damage addition due to having these %-based damage buffs. Thus, the subclass damage differences between then (lvl 50 cap) & now (60 lvl cap) are even wider & more imbalanced than I had already said. Alas....

-As to cd's, Almighty, 30 secs is merely my own balance suggestion ... they could be made 45 secs, or even 60 secs ... but the current 2 min. cd's/short gcd's are just entirely too long imho in balanced relation to the very little that one obtains from each buff.

Or even pulled back lower so you've only 2 buffs running continuously with a comfortable overlap for casting one as another is about to run out, all that time spent buffing is really all that prevents SM from being both OP and a nice way to play. The whole tree would benefit from a rework imho, there are some really good general spells that could be more popular if they weren't mixed in with staff damage specific stuff. Evendims fury at the top for example, not staff related at all and similar to mana burn which is in a different tree entirely.

[Kimahri_Ronso]

atm Marksman spells deal much more dmg than lock ones :) even AoE spell like Fire Rain with 30 sec cd hits for 800+... just take a look at Arrow Mastery tree and spells placed there.

Why do you even compare Marks damage to warlock one?
They are two different subclass. Just because Marks hits high it doesn't mean that warlock should be able to do the same.

What I mean is that SM indeed must be a warlock skill and a warlock skill ONLY.
The whole tree should be reworked, staff mastery should be about using devastating spells and not about buffing the damage, range and speed of normal hits...

[MrFreaky]

Why do you even compare Marks damage to warlock one?
They are two different subclass. Just because Marks hits high it doesn't mean that warlock should be able to do the same.

What I mean is that SM indeed must be a warlock skill and a warlock skill ONLY.
The whole tree should be reworked, staff mastery should be about using devastating spells and not about buffing the damage, range and speed of normal hits...

no. i agree that warlocks in general needs a serious revamp of spell and overall dps, but asking us to abandon a playstyle because it doesn't fit the "warlock" is of no help.

at this moment in time SM is very feasible and surprisingly fun. it is certainly not the best setup because of its long CDs and buffing time, but it works and proves a whole lot more entertaining than spell casting alone.

we can see a lot of locks either a) abandoning their setup and shifting over to SM or b) completely ridding of their character and switching to a much more brainless and easy class to play *cough* barbs/marks *cough*

i would much rather go back to spells, a playstyle which i played for 5 years or so, but myself being unwilling to grind new characters, i am forced to play the only level 60 which i retain. and the only way ican do it is by using SM.

[Lebeau]

...Warlocks are spellcasters, they are meant to use magic and not normal hits...


Supposed to be, yes, but sadly, no longer true. Ye same olde lvl-50-cap spell-damage versus lvl-60-cap armors + %-based protections/resistances = warlock is no longer the offensive mage-subclass at all really (but hey, that's another thread altogether, & there have been many such posted since autumn '10 & the WM/lvl-60 'update').

[Almighty1]

Ffs, no.
Why warlocks wanna play as a marksman too?
Marksman is plain boring, range + phewphew.

Warlocks are spellcasters, they are meant to use magic and not normal hits. Sorry Allmighty and Mr Freaky, but SM and AS is something that other subclasses should value more, I know you can skill it, but you shouldn't use it. Right, NGD's fault too, years of begging for making warlocks REALLY warlocks will happen (soon but not soon :p) hopefully. Untill that, I suggest you to try some other subclass(es). :)

Playing SM doesn't mean Im trying to play like a marks. Marks gameplay is too boring. Stay at 50m and click your enemies. Plus they have pretty high defense and escape spells.

There is no hard and fast rule for a warlock to be a spellcaster. I found SM even though a bit tricky to play, very much effective than playing as a spellcaster. Few reasons for same
1) You don't have to worry about DIZZY. Spellcasters are sitting ducks when dizzied.
2) Insane DPS when compared to spellcaster.
3) Much longer range (about 35m) when compared to spellcaster (mainly 25m).
4) Do not have to while away your time when archers cast SOTW.
5) Dealing dmg to archers out of their cc range (except bow)
6) Out hit an Archer, When kiting or standing still, forcing them to run away or come into much closer range.
7) Watching those archers run away from you is a funny sight lol. (Not and adv, but still it's fun )

These are ones that I can thinknof now. I do agree there are disadvantages for SM, but I believe these advantages outweigh them.

[Hayir]

Playing SM doesn't mean Im trying to play like a marks. Marks gameplay is too boring. Stay at 50m and click your enemies. Plus they have pretty high defense and escape spells.

There is no hard and fast rule for a warlock to be a spellcaster. I found SM even though a bit tricky to play, very much effective than playing as a spellcaster. Few reasons for same
1) You don't have to worry about DIZZY. Spellcasters are sitting ducks when dizzied.
2) Insane DPS when compared to spellcaster.
3) Much longer range (about 35m) when compared to spellcaster (mainly 25m).
4) Do not have to while away your time when archers cast SOTW.
5) Dealing dmg to archers out of their cc range (except bow)
6) Out hit an Archer, When kiting or standing still, forcing them to run away or come into much closer range.
7) Watching those archers run away from you is a funny sight lol. (Not and adv, but still it's fun )

These are ones that I can thinknof now. I do agree there are disadvantages for SM, but I believe these advantages outweigh them.

But aren't those the points you accuse marks of? To me it sounds like you wish warlock turned into marks. And that's what it exactly used to be. Fuerst and others did exactly what you say about marks when it was still stronger.

[Almighty1]

But aren't those the points you accuse marks of? To me it sounds like you wish warlock turned into marks. And that's what it exactly used to be. Fuerst and others did exactly what you say about marks when it was still stronger.

I do not accuse marks for the dmg alone. It's the insane range , % dmg bonus passives + spells, and to add to that theybhave uber defense and escape spells.
Does a warlock have this ? :D
Barbs have op dmg, but they do not have range. So, it's fine. SM locks have DPS, yes, but what else ? Lowers lvl cc? Worst defense of all the sub classes ?

This is in no way a marks :D
I took to this style to stand against the op dmg archers do, but that's not the point. We need more SM players !
Siwy and carbona are trying it out !!! :D
Nice to see SM locks from alsius

[Hayir]

I do not accuse marks for the dmg alone. It's the insane range , % dmg bonus passives + spells, and to add to that theybhave uber defense and escape spells.
Does a warlock have this ? :D
Barbs have op dmg, but they do not have range. So, it's fine. SM locks have DPS, yes, but what else ? Lowers lvl cc? Worst defense of all the sub classes ?

This is in no way a marks :D
I took to this style to stand against the op dmg archers do, but that's not the point. We need more SM players !
Siwy and carbona are trying it out !!! :D
Nice to see SM locks from alsius

I didn't say it is, i said you want it to be. You want warlock to be a ranged class with high normal hits.

So there are 2 options for that:

Either they do that "insane range , % dmg bonus passives + spells, and to add to that theybhave uber defense and escape spells. " , which makes you a marksman pretty much.
or they increase the dmg so much that you pretty much 1 hit everything and nothing even matters.

[Almighty1]

I don't think there is going to be any balance updates soon. Just showcasing another option for squishy locks to play in war which I felt is pretty good and effective.

Just want other locks to try it out and see what they think about it. Every class has balance issues. :D

[C4RB0N4]

atm Marksman spells deal much more dmg than lock ones :) even AoE spell like Fire Rain with 30 sec cd hits for 800+... just take a look at Arrow Mastery tree and spells placed there.

staff mastery does not give that insane normals but attack speed is what makes sm OP when u have good gear

[Hayir]

Honestly i don't think any class should be so insanely focused on normal hits, because that is in my opinion plain boring gameplay. Not even marks should be like that.

That's why i suggested this for marks before they buffed all those marks spells, which would be a lot more balanced in the current state imo.
https://www.championsofregnum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105536

I personally dislike any SM trend and current state of marksman with strong spell damage and normal hits. But obviously everyone can play as they like.

[Sentan]

staff mastery does not give that insane normals but attack speed is what makes sm OP when u have good gear

sure but marksman attack speed is the same or even better with stronger hits and range :)

[MrFreaky]

But aren't those the points you accuse marks of? To me it sounds like you wish warlock turned into marks. And that's what it exactly used to be. Fuerst and others did exactly what you say about marks when it was still stronger.

lets put it this way. if i had a Marks ready and gear'd up i would undoubtedly abandon my SM warlock and play it instead. for a few obvious reasons being: insane range, spells, DPS, and defense. an overall easy and clearly OP class to play. why wouldn't i play Marks. i just don't have one, and do not plan on grinding.

Marks have it all. SM is pretty much a Marks with much less defense, range, and "protection" spells as i like to call them such as SOTW, LP, escapist, WS, DS, ambush etc...

where warlock has its advantage over Marks is DPS. and frankly, i think these major setbacks for warlock when comparing to Marks actually make it a whole lot more challenging and entertaining.

but in the end it comes down to the fact that spell casting is simply outdated and deeply inferior to SM. sure we can do a little tree hugging and PvP and the spell caster will stand out no doubt, but we all know this is not the core of Regnum which we know to be RvR based.

[MrFreaky]

sure but marksman attack speed is the same or even better with stronger hits and range :)

as i've said in previous posts, SM has a higher DPS than Marks. i give special attention to the damage log while in game and conclude according to what i see.

i'm not sure if this is because Marks are forced to 'setup' in a particular way for war, and thus sacrifice some damage/AS, but from what i've seen throughout the past year or two, is that SM wins the DPS contest. unless of course, Marks are completely decked out with the best bows and jewelry which is not a norm on Haven.

it would be nice to actually test these figures and come to a definite conclusion.

[Hayir]

but in the end it comes down to the fact that spell casting is simply outdated and deeply inferior to SM. sure we can do a little tree hugging and PvP and the spell caster will stand out no doubt, but we all know this is not the core of Regnum which we know to be RvR based.

This is actually news to me, i have never seen a SM lock be more effective than a "regular" one in a RvR situation.

[Hollow-Ichigo]

This is actually news to me, i have never seen a SM lock be more effective than a "regular" one in a RvR situation.

The only time SM was OP was years ago when conjurers used it with zarkits and were basically unkillable. I dont see SM lock being more effective than normal locks who just use areas, while it might be fun its clear how war works. Warlocks keep everyone CC'd with areas whilst barbarians and knights run in to area everyone to death.

Besides, it became clear to me that NGD is bad at balance when arcana strike was buffed for no good reason. I highly doubt SM warlocks will become a thing in RvR.

[Takeyo]

Warlocks were always supposed to have the option of damaging with basic attacks. This is why they were given the second-highest attack damage scale in the game.

Look at the way the game is designed, and judge based off of that. Quit all of this visceral, gut reaction. If SM has become the best method of dealing damage for some people, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just one option among many, and a good one at that.

[MrFreaky]

This is actually news to me, i have never seen a SM lock be more effective than a "regular" one in a RvR situation.

most definitely! i know it seems surprising but SM locks are in fact much more useful than regular locks. take this build for example... SM + terror (5), mod (5), pylon (5) + frozen storm (3) + dispell (5). here we have an obvious RvR build but at the same time we are allowing SM to remain. We are also maintaining our own personal CCs such as ivy, freeze, mind push, and beetle storm. also, self heals such as vamp or SK. and defenses such as Wind wall and magic barrier.

SM simply replaces spells such as Meteor, fireball, ice blast, and lightning which we know by now have been crippled to the point of uselessness.

in most cases ice blast and lightning get dispelled almost instantly since let's agree that dispel 4/5 has become the backbone to any mage. Meteor and fireball are nowhere as damaging as they used to be. so instead we replace with SM. we all know what damage SM can do. it quite simply blows the mentioned 4 spells out of the water as far as DPS and range are concerned. not to mention the huge impact it has on enemy rangers. it is very effective with keeping the pressure on enemy conjus.

[crownapollo]

I call for a long overdue warju buff! Let the dark ages of tremor and SM begin again.

[Lebeau]

...SM has a higher DPS than Marks...

True for some, but if ANY mage can out-DPS Sara, Bidinger, etc, I'll be ASStonished & ASStounded...

:o

[C4RB0N4]

most definitely! i know it seems surprising but SM locks are in fact much more useful than regular locks. take this build for example... SM + terror (5), mod (5), pylon (5) + frozen storm (3) + dispell (5). here we have an obvious RvR build but at the same time we are allowing SM to remain. We are also maintaining our own personal CCs such as ivy, freeze, mind push, and beetle storm. also, self heals such as vamp or SK. and defenses such as Wind wall and magic barrier.

SM simply replaces spells such as Meteor, fireball, ice blast, and lightning which we know by now have been crippled to the point of uselessness.

in most cases ice blast and lightning get dispelled almost instantly since let's agree that dispel 4/5 has become the backbone to any mage. Meteor and fireball are nowhere as damaging as they used to be. so instead we replace with SM. we all know what damage SM can do. it quite simply blows the mentioned 4 spells out of the water as far as DPS and range are concerned. not to mention the huge impact it has on enemy rangers. it is very effective with keeping the pressure on enemy conjus.

if you can make setup fitting these requirements, plz share

best i can come up to is this:
https://regnumsentinel.com/t6t7
however, 3,7-3,8k hp may cause problems as attack speed is wat you're going for

[Almighty1]

if you can make setup fitting these requirements, plz share

best i can come up to is this:
https://regnumsentinel.com/t6t7
however, 3,7-3,8k hp may cause problems as attack speed is wat you're going for

You can make a setup as Freaky told, but it becomes entirely a war setup.

https://regnumsentinel.com/t6tb

Just made a quick one based on the spells he wrote.

[Almighty1]

I highly doubt SM warlocks will become a thing in RvR.

I actually see a lot of warlocks trying SM right now :D
Few locks I saw playing SM were Synyster Peacemaker (syrtis) , Siwy ,Aniara , Carbona (Alsius), Ke-Lun (Ignis).
These are the ones I remember. :)

[C4RB0N4]

You can make a setup as Freaky told, but it becomes entirely a war setup.

https://regnumsentinel.com/t6tb

Just made a quick one based on the spells he wrote.

wow.. that's... wayy better. thanks!

though i still have doubts about sm warlock survival with such setup, when max hp he can take is 3,9k and most of warlocks would have 3,6-3,7k. you guys have any experience on that?

back to the topic. i'm really against sm damage increase as it'll bring disbalance in game when sm will be used with boss jewels and great staff. almost every sm tree spell can come handy (except protection dome maybe) so only thing that could be changed to make it more handy is making 2/3 dmg buff cast time instant

[Almighty1]

wow.. that's... wayy better. thanks!

though i still have doubts about sm warlock survival with such setup, when max hp he can take is 3,9k and most of warlocks would have 3,6-3,7k. you guys have any experience on that?


I wouldn't recommend that setup, unless you only war with a zerg which has good conjus.
What did you mean by survival with SM setup? I didnt get you.

[MrFreaky]

True for some, but if ANY mage can out-DPS Sara, Bidinger, etc, I'll be ASStonished & ASStounded...

:o

i have always said as long as the the Marks is not fully decked out with the best of bows and jewelry, then the SM mage will out DPS. but even then i think it'll be very close.

i'm very curious to compare the two. i think fort doors make good targets given they do not have self buffs or certain resistances.

[MrFreaky]

if you can make setup fitting these requirements, plz share

best i can come up to is this:
https://regnumsentinel.com/t6t7
however, 3,7-3,8k hp may cause problems as attack speed is wat you're going for

yeah, so this is sort of what i was getting at. you'll have to sacrifice 550HP from your WM passive. i put this together in 1 minute.

https://regnumsentinel.com/t6te

[MrFreaky]

wow.. that's... wayy better. thanks!

though i still have doubts about sm warlock survival with such setup, when max hp he can take is 3,9k and most of warlocks would have 3,6-3,7k. you guys have any experience on that?


so for the past week i have been experimenting with a diversity of SM setups. i am attempting to incorporate more 'group useful spells' such as Terror/Mod. but in doing so i am having to sacrifice that 550hp WM passive. but... at the same time i've been making up for it with vamp and sk.

something of this sort: https://regnumsentinel.com/t6tf

[Almighty1]

so for the past week i have been experimenting with a diversity of SM setups. i am attempting to incorporate more 'group useful spells' such as Terror/Mod. but in doing so i am having to sacrifice that 550hp WM passive. but... at the same time i've been making up for it with vamp and sk.

something of this sort: https://regnumsentinel.com/t6tf

Without WM passive you will probably get about 3.4k hp, unless u have Hp+const tunic and dmg+hp staff.

SK and vamp are 25 and 20 ranged spells, idk if it can be used instead of WM passive, when playing SM.

[Lebeau]

...SK and vamp are 25 and 20 ranged spells, idk if it can be used instead of WM passive, when playing SM.

Why not have all of the above + extras: https://regnumsentinel.com/t6u0 . You'll lack some range (no arc proj; -4.5m on r30 staff) & some damage (dra blo1 instead of 5), but with MoD, you are supposed to get in there & scrap, not stand up on the wall pretending to be an archer, right?

I'd advise against it but, for purists, find a point (bee swa for exp) & put it in arc proj for 20 secs of extra range, &/or nerf 4 of your cc's for a lil' extra damage (dra blo5).

Find a support knight ally (auras & eth mant) & a conj buddy too (DI, fri shi, mat & mag wall) & see what happens (I can't, loaned my last double-damage-bonus sm stick out years ago & ofc, never got it back).

[Almighty1]

Why not have all of the above + extras: https://regnumsentinel.com/t6u0 . You'll lack some range (no arc proj; -4.5m on r30 staff) & some damage (dra blo1 instead of 5), but with MoD, you are supposed to get in there & scrap, not stand up on the wall pretending to be an archer, right?

I'd advise against it but, for purists, find a point (bee swa for exp) & put it in arc proj for 20 secs of extra range, &/or nerf 4 of your cc's for a lil' extra damage (dra blo5).

Find a support knight ally (auras & eth mant) & a conj buddy too (DI, fri shi, mat & mag wall) & see what happens (I can't, loaned my last double-damage-bonus sm stick out years ago & ofc, never got it back).

Arcane projection is 60 sec duration, which is quite useful when it comes to archers on the enemy side. And dragon blood at lvl 5 gives you, 15 x 1.75 = 26.25 dmg. So, those spells can't be removed. :D

[Lebeau]

Arcane projection is 60 sec duration, which is quite useful when it comes to archers on the enemy side. And dragon blood at lvl 5 gives you, 15 x 1.75 = 26.25 dmg. So, those spells can't be removed. :D

The build above has dra blo 1 (good for 8.75 damage), & can easily incorporate arc proj 1-5 IF cc's are nerfed. As stated,the point of this RVR-build is NOT to compete with longer ranged archers from the wall's top or longest ranges, but instead to get in close (hopefully with conj & knight support), & make other casters irrelevant (for 30 secs, + sil & met). This negates/delays the typical barrage of typhoons one usually expects at fort doors for example. So, those spells CAN be removed, but at a cost that's maybe worth the price. Your choice....

:cool: