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View Full Version : Ode to NGD, Argentina...


Hell_bound
05-25-2008, 03:45 AM
Some here are too young to understand the concepts that I have been and will be talking about, others know (for they feel it deep down inside), but choose to ignore...



However, even though this be true I feel compelled to share with you all the reasons I like NGD so much.

You see NGD is a company that comes from a very poor Nation-State, relative to Western nations, known as Argentina.


For an example of just how poor lets look at some facts (it should be noted that all numbers are taken from Wiki):

In 2007 Argentina's Gross Domestic Product (GDP), which is a measure of a nation's economy based on what they produce and what that production is worth in the Global economy, was ~523.7 billion (US) dollars. Now Argentina has roughly ~40.31 million people, so per person Argentina's GDP works out to be ~13.3 thousand (US) dollars per person.

In contrast the US GDP, in 2007, was ~13.5 trillion dollars, which works out to be ~43.4 thousand dollars per person (total population of the US is ~ 304.2 million).



Now most of you are probably thinking "so what"... But these numbers, if you understand political economic theory, relate to the political influence a Nation-State has in the world. This translates into three things (though you should know this is just my own list):

(1) How much influence Argentina can sway the political agendas of other nations through trade, service agreements (that is through what they can offer other nations).

(2) How much global resources Argentina can secure for themselves (that other nations make) like machinery, vehicles or steel (to name a few).

And (3) how the combination of both (1) and (2) in turn help to increase (or decrease if Argentina, or any nation, fails to achieve optimum results in points one and two) the standard living of the average Argentinian (such as increased chances for education, more opportunities for work and more technological goods).


Now to truly understand how NGD is special, at least in my eyes, we have to understand the historical relationship the West (and by West I mean the US) has had with Argentina.


You see in 1970's American leaders started to worry about the socialist political movements that that were occurring in South America, namely Chile and later Argentina. See back then America was still trying to suppress the global movement of Communism. However, in it's frenzy to rid the world of Communism it neglected to realize that there was a fundamental difference between Socialism and Communism. Not really though, for America knew the difference but Socialism was just as dangerous, if not more then Communism, because Nation-States which turned Socialist meant that America could not secure cheep resources, nor cheep labor forces. And this meant that the economic and global political power of America would decline, if unable to have access to cheep resources or labor.

Thus, in the 1970's America conducted a botched coup in Chile to rid the Socialist President Salvador Allende, because at that time America wanted cheep copper from Chile (*Allende wanted to socialize Chile's copper mines and give the profit made to Chileans). However, this coup led to Allende's death, which ironically occurred on 9/11/73 (get it 9/11, and no there is no connection to this and the Al Qaeda attacks that occurred on 9/11/01 in New York, but it's still ironic).

After Salvador Allende was killed America, through corrosion of the corporate and political elite (by letting them think they would profit *from the coup on Allende), was able to institute a pro-capitalist President in Chile. From that point on the people of Chile, its resources and environment were enslaved for the benefit of their own power-elite and America.



Unfortunately, because of proximity and a belief in socialism, Argentina became the next target in America's so called war on Communism. So in 1973-76 America backed Jorge Rafael Videla's military government. Under Videla, the Argentinian government, started to kill its own people (about ~30,000 people died) under a movement called the Argentine Anti-Communist Alliance or the "Dirty War". As a matter of fact Jorge Rafael Videla, during this time, is quoted to say, "As many people as necessary must die in Argentina so that the country will again be secure.." Sadly this government sponsored war, which was backed by America, lasted until 1983 and left Argentina in economic ruins. And once again America profited, because it found another Nation-State willing to sell both its resources and labor for cheep.


Now given this history one might ask, "What is the significance of NGD?" Good question and here is the answer...


NGD represents a symbol (anyone who has read my posts knows how much I love symbols), in my mind, of a Nation-State that is starting to come out from under the economic and political oppression that was forced on it by the Western world because it dared to believe in an economic, governmental system which put its people before profits.

And although Argentina had to adapt to a capitalist economic system, its people still believe is socialist concepts and evidence of this NGD's decision to put in the fatigue system within their game. And bless you NGD!

Yet the fact that a corporation, such as NGD, can exist within Argentina shows that quality of life for Argentinians is starting to increase...



And in light of this NGD, people of Argentina I leave you with this one thought...

Know that America sits in the twilight of its hegemonic power over the world, for soon there shall came a great readjustment in world power...
These signs are everywhere and are hard to escape...
But know as one Nation decreases, others increase...


However, for Nations such as England, Australia and Japan...
I would be afraid, very afraid...
For your ties to the American dollar shall in turn cause your collapse!


Therefore, NGD my hats off to you!
And to Argentina god bless you!


On a side note, however, Argentinians you have one hot looking President. Yes, I like very much! :D




*And yes, other then wiki numbers, this was penned by me with the knowledge I, believe I have, in Global Economic Theories and US relations with other Nation-States

Edits denoted by *'s

gamemod
05-25-2008, 04:06 AM
Argentina is a country that you should live in to fully understand how things work (or they seem to do it) and how you have to be truly wise and smart to get what you want done. However, game development needs an extra effort, as there isn't proper sponsoring or subsidy for this kind of projects. But we love what we do, and so, we will keep on struggling for what we want.

Thanks for your words, and don't start me about our president! :biggrin:

Regards.

Hell_bound
05-25-2008, 04:31 AM
Argentina is a country that you should live...

You have no idea how much I'd love to...

... to fully understand how things work (or they seem to do it) and how you have to be truly wise and smart to get what you want done...

I'm sure there is still large disparities that exist between "old" way and "new" way?

However, the fact that Argentina is starting to grow economically and produce corporations (if even one) like NGD, while still holding onto the core beliefs of what made Argentina a counter movement to profiteering capitalism shows that there is indeed very wise and smart people in Argentina.


... However, game development needs an extra effort, as there isn't proper sponsoring or subsidy for this kind of projects...

Personally I think NGD should be subsidized and touted as ushering Argentina into a brave new world where opportunities could be endless... Just think this is only the beginning ;).

... But we love what we do, and so, we will keep on struggling for what we want...

Yes you guys sure do love what you do and it shows and I for one thank you for your struggles to produce such a game and supporting the community that has evolved around it.

... Thanks for your words, and don't start me about our president!

Heheh, at least I'm not the only one...

ArcticWolf
05-25-2008, 04:40 AM
You can't measure everything just with numbers, as gamemod said you need to live here to get it. Some of us get enough money to go to a nice university and have 3 computers at home, but some others simply can't eat twice a day. This disparity is common here, and it's like playing dice: you never know what will happen to you in the years to come.

I won't start with politics (though, I have my own opinions), I don't want to have a fight here...

Thanks for worrying, Hell_bound :)

gamemod
05-25-2008, 04:40 AM
Heheh, at least I'm not the only one...

Actually, I meant the other way round. But don't make me talk about her. :tsk_tsk:

Hell_bound
05-25-2008, 04:58 AM
... Thanks for worrying, Hell_bound...

Thing is, it's hard to feel proud in one's own nation after you know what it has done to other nations to try and secure it's power in the world...

This subject runs very deep with me and I have spent many years trying to understand the reasons why America did these things, and how it will lead to America's eventual decline.

So it makes me happy, and I mean really happy to see a corporation like NGD become successful...

Because to me I see my love for history, global politics and technology colliding together... Truly a beauty to behold!

Actually, I meant the other way round. But don't make me talk about her...

Ah, I see...

However, it should be noted that when I see a dark skinned, dark haired, full bodied woman I lose all sense of realty....

Yes, Hell_bound has his weakness too you know...

ArcticWolf
05-25-2008, 05:27 AM
However, the fact that Argentina is starting to grow economically and produce corporations (if even one) like NGD, while still holding onto the core beliefs of what made Argentina a counter movement to profiteering capitalism shows that there is indeed very wise and smart people in Argentina.

Brief comment about the economical history in Argentina*:

In 1880's we used to be the main producer (and hence, seller) of grains in the world, altogether with bovine products.

We got struck in the 80's, 90's, the 1914 and the 1929 by economical crisis and stock crashes. Argentina could never sell as much grain as before this crisis.

Then the WWII came. As you may notice, all grain producer countries depend on Europe since was (and it still is) the primary seed buyer around the world. By the time we had some industries, but they weren't enough to get by.

After the WWII ended, Argentina saw with big eyes the starving and destroyed Europe, so we wanted to sell food and lend money to help with the reconstruction of the continent. Oh, and we wanted to clean up our name, because our country held a quite good relationship with the nazi regime. So... what was the problem with this? The Marshal Plan forbid the countries to buy any product that didn't come from the USA, leaving us with a handful of countries to sell to.

When we could finally get out of the crisis, the new model that we called "sustitución de importaciones" (which can be roughly translated as replacing the industrialized or end products with the ones produced here) collapsed due to the limitations that the economical model had. Maybe Torg can explain it better, but the market got over-saturated with products. In order to keep the demand high the corporations tried to bring prices down, leaving the workers (which were at the time the consumers of the products) with less money.

Ten years passed by where the guilds vs the companies were in a tie. The economical situation of the country was "stable", but the struggling groups and the constant fight frightened a lot of investors which could have saved the country.

From now on my memory gets hazy. I should have taken down notes on the History lessons.

During the de facto governments most of the country's companies were sold to international cartels and multinational groups. To fight inflation a guy called Martinez de Hoz (that's the surename) thought it would be a good idea to use a simple recipe the International Monetary Fund gave him: "buy dollars, depreciate the national currency in favour of the dollar, repeat". This so stupid process was the final shot Argentina needed to become a third world country.

Inflationary process occur because of the ratio that products and the acquisitive power the people have. Depreciating the currency just resets the "inflationary counter" to zero, but it doesn't stop the process.



*: Maybe Torg Snowflake can help me with this, he's the expert regarding to economy, and my memory stinks.

ArcticWolf
05-25-2008, 05:30 AM
Actually, I meant the other way round. But don't make me talk about her. :tsk_tsk:

Same as you. Too bad my university is two blocks away from the pink house, everytime people gather to strike it takes me an hour to get to the bus stop :dumbofme:

Dividido
05-25-2008, 07:56 AM
Like xeph and gamemod said, it turns very difficult to explain how our country really works. I think the main reason that Argentina act different than US is becouse we don't have the resources (economical, strategic): in another parallel universe I believe we are the Super World Power (with all the negative things this attach) :P

Our problem is that we have the theory, but we fail in the practice. For more information about some of our thoughts, you can search some info about Peron's third position theory.

Angel_de_Combate
05-25-2008, 10:30 AM
Thing is, it's hard to feel proud in one's own nation after you know what it has done to other nations to try and secure it's power in the world...

This subject runs very deep with me and I have spent many years trying to understand the reasons why America did these things, and how it will lead to America's eventual decline.

So it makes me happy, and I mean really happy to see a corporation like NGD become successful...

Because to me I see my love for history, global politics and technology colliding together... Truly a beauty to behold!

Its nice when the little guys are winning for a change..i agree about America...makes me glad im British to be honest...although we still played our part in the Iraq War..



Ah, I see...

However, it should be noted that when I see a dark skinned, dark haired, full bodied woman I lose all sense of realty....

Yes, Hell_bound has his weakness too you know...

LOL didnt really think you had any of those...my my..wonders will never cease...

ArcticWolf
05-25-2008, 01:20 PM
Our problem is that we have the theory, but we fail in the practice. For more information about some of our thoughts, you can search some info about Peron's third position theory.

Also, the problem is that the theory we have was developed and tested for countries in a different economical position than us. The Keynesian theories used to work pretty well in the USA, but here it was a disaster (though it could have been a good idea with some little modifications).

-Edge-
05-26-2008, 12:47 PM
I don't know what to say about the USA anymore. Really living there I feel everything is better for me, and it is. Everything looks nice too, but theres a nasty side to it. Under the blindfold America can kick you in the nuts and just tell you who cares.

Theres soooo many problems economically. Tons of people lose jobs everyday. America handles thier economic policy very well, but they do not do thier best imo.

Some of you probably already know about what happened to me last Fall. My parents lived in the States for 20 damn years, had 5 kids (makes us Americans) and a great house (still left unsold to this day >.>) Anywho, long story short, Immigration came one day, took my father away to jail, he sat there for 3 months waiting. Then they sent us away in Mid-October with just what we could carry. I wrote 2 letters to President Bush. But got a reply only from 1, which was actually just from the Justice Department.

And so, I left behind 15 years of my memories, friends, a great education. And now we live in Poland, parents still don't got a job, we live with our family. Its slowly working out.

But that left a mark on me, whenever I talk to Aries about what happened to my family, he just says it makes him sick to be an American. Theres so much shit going on with the Immigration system, Asians, Arabs, Mexicans getting deported. A Veteran that fought in Vietnam for 3 years came to us too, and he told us its just bullshit. He says he fought for his country, but not to see people getting stripped from it.

Ahh now ive got a good image of America, they left me here, in a country I know little about, language that I have big trouble speaking (thank you Piz ;)) What the hell am I suppossed to do now? My education is in a crisis, my future is in a crisis :p Im looking for a sign for why I came here, but I think I might start seeing it, that sign is the American Recession coming back.

Angelwinged_Devil
05-26-2008, 01:58 PM
Yes, Hell_bound has his weakness too you know...
everyone has at least one XD no one knows mine (and I'm glad of it)
in the end boobies got hell_bound :p

but it's a very interesting talk about argentina, I am a bit political interested :D, and I'm sorry you had a shitty move edgey, but things always works out for good people ;)

-Edge-
05-26-2008, 02:40 PM
but it's a very interesting talk about argentina, I am a bit political interested :D, and I'm sorry you had a shitty move edgey, but things always works out for good people ;)
Meh, I just look at it as a good story to tell ^^

ArcticWolf
05-26-2008, 03:57 PM
Meh, I just look at it as a good story to tell ^^

No, it isn't. It's a sad story, so it's bad.

Sure there's no way to go back to the States? You were born there, that makes you American! This is nonsense :tsk_tsk:

Hell_bound
05-28-2008, 02:36 AM
I always get these funny feelings about things and write them down...

And this thread was a product of such a feeling, but shared here...

Strange thing is Argentina made the world news on Friday, the 23rd, and I didn't know about it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7416679.stm

Till now...

Dividido
05-28-2008, 03:31 AM
I always get these funny feelings about things and write them down...

And this thread was a product of such a feeling, but shared here...

Strange thing is Argentina made the world news on Friday, the 23rd, and I didn't know about it:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7416679.stm

Till now...

Update: tomorrow the producers will block grain exportats and next week they're going to do the same with meat. The protest has become into a power struggle, making the rest of the population spectators of the show, with no voice or vote.

The Government is trying to discourage the production of soybeans, but, instead of giving benefits to other activities, they decided to raise the taxes to the soybean production, the quickest but most polemical way I think.

ArcticWolf
05-28-2008, 06:06 AM
The government is aiming to the grain exportations since it's the main income of the country. A tax that of 50% to the soybeans (or any other kind of grain product) is a really profitable maneuver to the government, but destroys Argentina's main industry.

The problem isn't the tax per se, it's the percentage taken by the government. Producers would agree to set a lower tax price, but not to completely take it out. They know taxes come back to the society and are the way a province/ government raises funds, but they also know that THIS government will not invest that money on the very same industry that prevents the country to virtually disappear from the economic world map.

The taxes go to the National Funds, not to the Provincial (regional) ones, and then it's shared almost equally through all the provinces. That means provinces with more income (and hence, more producers) would get less than a province with almost no producers (Buenos Aires vs. Tierra del Fuego).

Oh, and don't forget the monopoly that the Truck Guild has. We used to have the best railroad system in Latin America, but through the years the government cut the funds and now it's completely abandoned. Just a small (a VERY) small percentage remains operative, and it's in horrible conditions. So... The only way to transport goods is through trucks. This guild would control all the food movement on the country with ease. Guess what: the Truck Guild is controlled by the government!

Dividido
05-29-2008, 01:15 AM
The government is aiming to the grain exportations since it's the main income of the country.

This makes no sense. Why a government attacks a productive industry (and the one who represents us in the rest of the world)? The only "sense" reason is becouse they need money. But that's not the case, the income is very good and mainly becouse this activity in particular.

So what's the point of all of this? I have to recognise that the Government is planning in a mid-term, becouse the soybean activity destroy the land, or becouse if this goes on we might have a single-crop production in the future, or becouse we sell all the soybean production to the international market, so more production means more money for a few hands and less food for us (becouse they replace soybean in fields where they produced other crop before).

What I really disagree is how they're tryng to change this situation. Instead of penalize soybean I'd choose to give benefits to the specific crop I think it's best for the country.


I agree the rest of the post xeph (why are we talking of Argentina in english? .. ).

ArcticWolf
05-29-2008, 01:53 AM
My English is a little bit rusty this days (I should have practiced more during the summer), so I think I'm not making myself clear. I'll translate some of the posts I wrote earlier in the Spanish forum, but for the time being you can read this:

http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=337823&postcount=30
http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=338280&postcount=57
http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=338282&postcount=59
http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=338352&postcount=65
http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=339543&postcount=83
http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=340531&postcount=85


I know I'm "center-winged" with a little tendency to "the right", but please, take your time to read my opinions :)

Hell_bound
05-29-2008, 02:29 AM
... why are we talking of Argentina in [English]? ...

Because all of our destinies are intertwined...

You and xeph (as well as other Argentinians) who are in the "know", so to speak (because Argentina is where you live and are born), can educate us westerns on Argentina's political, economic struggles it faces today.

And how these struggles will impact Argentina's future...

Share with us what you see happing around you and how it makes you feel...

The good... the bad... and the ugly...

Angelwinged_Devil
05-29-2008, 04:14 PM
I know I'm "center-winged" with a little tendency to "the right", but please, take your time to read my opinions :)
heh, I'm socialliberalistic :D