people from Georgia (Sakartvelo)

[Pizdzius]

Due to the war caused today by Russian forces I want to express my deepest condolence for people who died there, today and will in the future days of upcoming war.

[DkySven]

So it is war...

[UmarilsStillHere]

wait what what WHAT? I should watch the news more often...

[fluffy_muffin]

wait what what WHAT? I should watch the news more often...

Osetia wanted to make own country but Georgia don't want that. So some time ago Russia sent "peacefull forces" to Osetia. In last months there was serveral incidents between Russia and Georgia. And now we have war.

[Pizdzius]

yeah, today Putin said to Bush while they were in Pekin, that war has begun.
I just wish it didn't involve people from destroyed hospitals and normal civils. eh

[BlooD]

Correct me if i am mistaken.

Osetia wants to be a country for itself without georgia, Rusia and the ONU sent peace forces to the zone. Then georgia crossed the line and started attacking osetia killing civilians, destroying villages and troops from the the russian peace forces so russia replied sending more troops to help their own troops there.

So more or less who started was Georgia but i fear russia will use this as excuse.

Anyway its funny how they help osetia but they attack chechenia....

[fluffy_muffin]

So more or less who started was Georgia but i fear russia will use this as excuse.


I have no information's about Georgia troops killing civilians. And it is a little more complicated then you showed. But it is truth that Georgia used force to keep Osetia as part of their territory. BTW Russia shooted down Georgia's plane some time ago. Now they bombarded airport in Georgia (yes peace force bombarded military airport).
My problem is that no one care about what is going on there so we have to rely on "free" Russian media or on Georgia media. And some journalist who are there.

[BlooD]

Yeah the term "peace force" its just because they are supposed to be there to maintain peace but mostly of the times they do the opposite.

For what i read the most "trustfully" site its surplinsigly the wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_(2008)

More or less i resumed what they say there thats why i asked for corrections, looks like Georgia broke the ceasefire yesterday.

Anyway as i said i am sure Rusia wants more than protecting Osetia there, saw a lot of links where people explained the "strategical" osetia position, with gasoducts who help Europe to be no that dependant on Russia supplies.

And knowing that putin he will not let pass this chance.

Really this kind of things make my blood boil.

[Pizdzius]

I don't care who started what

I care that innocent people die, not only soldiers, and I mourn for them. They die for stupid reasons and without a chance to say bye to their beloved. That's why I made this thread. Not to discuss who's fault is that

[Envy]

I have a bad feeling this won't end well, isn't US an ally of Georgia?

Yup, US warned them about it in July:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7499227.stm

[BlooD]

I don't care who started what

I care that innocent people die, not only soldiers, and I mourn for them. They die for stupid reasons and without a chance to say bye to their beloved. That's why I made this thread. Not to discuss who's fault is that

I agree with you but there is always a reason to start this kind of things i dont see how talking about how it started its bad.

I am not triying to defend any side and i dont want to give them logic reasons to do that.

As zielski said news dont reach us fast if some people doesnt want it so after all we want to know why that idiocy is happening, as i said that the nformation i could gather living in Spain, zielski says its a little different there.

If people is dieng we want to know why they are dieing, its not the same if they are just defending themselves than if they are attacking another countries for money.

I have a bad feeling this won't end well, isn't US an ally of Georgia?

Yup, US warned them about it in July:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7499227.stm

Yeah but i dont think they are enough idiot to angry europe too, europe wants georgia without russian influence to have gas and ore who not pass directly under russian hands.

[ArcticWolf]

Due to the war caused today by Russian forces I want to express my deepest condolence for people who died there, today and will in the future days of upcoming war.
Oh, no... Not another war...
I'll google about this war up now.

[Pizdzius]

Georgia isn't of any interest for US to defend them. If US and Russia will start fighting, that will mean world war III

[ArcticWolf]

Georgia isn't of any interest for US to defend them. If US and Russia will start fighting, that will mean world war III

I don't think so... After all, Russia and US are more or less the same.

Both of them know that having a war wouldn't benefit them. They want conflicts and battles in order to profit from reconstruction and weaponry.

[-Edge-]

I don't think so... After all, Russia and US are more or less the same.

Both of them know that having a war wouldn't benefit them. They want conflicts and battles in order to profit from reconstruction and weaponry.
You never know what comes out in an opprotunity to destroy the US. Russia was angered by them aswell because the US will be setting up and anti-rocket defense shield in Poland.

And from the Middle Eastern point of view, the US invaded their "peaceful lands"

Korea + Iran + Russia vs US

[Pizdzius]

I don't think so... After all, Russia and US are more or less the same.

Both of them know that having a war wouldn't benefit them. They want conflicts and battles in order to profit from reconstruction and weaponry.

With economy cooling today, war is perfect to make money. You wouldn't believe how much profit federal bank could get from loaning money (like they did in WWII)

[ArcticWolf]

With economy cooling today, war is perfect to make money. You wouldn't believe how much profit federal bank could get from loaning money (like they did in WWII)

Ok, that's true, but wars are often a high number of battles with a common conflict. As you say, war, combats and even small battles are profitable and they'll keep doing it until the world is reduced to ashes.

Ex mea sententia (IMO) that there won't be a WWIII, just a global conflict with no sides, no objectives and nothing more than monetary interests.

[Pizdzius]

Ok, that's true, but wars are often a high number of battles with a common conflict. As you say, war, combats and even small battles are profitable and they'll keep doing it until the world is reduced to ashes.

Ex mea sententia (IMO) that there won't be a WWIII, just a global conflict with no sides, no objectives and nothing more than monetary interests.

and that is called a world war, xeph :)

[ArcticWolf]

and that is called a world war, xeph :)
Oook. xD

The only thing that matters is that we're pretty much doomed. :thumb_down:

[Hell_bound]

War...

Such as it is its apart of the human condition...

The need to control...

And in this case the need is about controlling oil fields and gas pipelines...

While at the same time preventing "others" from stepping in and taking control away from the Russians like what happened in Kosovo...

America and its allies in the UN sit stationary because:

(1) Russia, for at least two years now, has been flexing its military might through non-hostile, but yet alarmingly aggressive, acts such as flying fighter jets into European air space, flying fighter jets over American navel ships in the Persian Gulf, warning the west of its new global missile network, and warning the west that if it interfered with helping rebel states it would be seen as an act of war

(2) America and its allies in the UN needs Russia's help in dealing with Iran, for Russia, as well as China, can give Iran many opportunities to escape UN sanctions - such as allowing Iran to deposit the money it makes off of oil in its banks, safe from the sanctions which call for the freezing, seizing of all Iranian money in international banks - something that is apart of the latest round of fresh sanctions to be put on Iran

And (3) Russia is just to powerful, militarily, to mess with...


When you want the world to bend to your wishes sometimes a compromise must be made and one must weigh between the lesser-of-two-evils...


If we allow Russia to do this, will they help with Iran...
That is the justification...
And a rather dumb one, for stillness shows weakness...
And the West cannot afford to be seen as weak...

LOL!

[Angel_de_Combate]

Its not spam but i wanted to just say hi to Mr H_B xD

[Pizdzius]

If we allow Russia to do this, will they help with Iran...

America doesn't need help with Iran, IMHO. They never needed help. The truth is, american soldiers never understood why we sentenced people responsible for shooting to a village of Nangar Kheyl. Because they shoot to civilans all the time, but media aren't authorised to show that as a bad thing.

The thing is, USA has the biggest military funding on whole earth. Over 300 billion Euro per year. Then there are European countries, and somewhere around 50 billion Euro is Russia. So, does USA need any help?

[Pizdzius]

Besides, Russia didn't allow US to attack Iran. That's why USA sits silent right now, waiting till they involve more military forces in Georgia so they can attack Iran.


Now, I remind you that only one petrol pipeline transport that isn't involving Russia is the one connecting Turkey, Azerbaijan and Armenia, and atm their forces (mostly turkish, since the other two are fighting) are ready to enter Georgia and fight with Russia.



Which in the end turns out to be a world war, no?

[UmarilsStillHere]

My History teachers veiw on war...

"Its basicaly a load of poor guys killing each other and getting killed because some rich guys dissagree about something, if I had my way id have Bush stick Saddam in a knife fight and be done with it."

I cant help but agree with him, there would be far less pointless bloodshed the our "leaders" were more involved. Correct me if im wrong but Bush was presented with a intelligence file showing Iran has no nukes yet he has insisted thay are still a threat? not that you can ever win the kind of gurrila war they are fighting...

Which in the end turns out to be a world war, no?
Yay more oil based war...
Hopefully russia wont go Nazi style on the emos :|

[Pizdzius]

this is not about bush, bush is a representative, the people who rule USA are many behind the scenes.

Your teacher generalizes. It's more complicated.

[Hell_bound]

Its not spam but i wanted to just say hi to Mr H_B xD

Sup Skatz, nice to see that your still around...


America doesn't need help with Iran, IMHO. They never needed help...

This might be true if we talk about a full on military attack, but we're (I was) not talking about that...

The truth is America is unsure about using a military means to deal with Iran, for if it did the consequences would be severe...

One consequence, and may soon become a reality because of the new sanctions, is that Iran will close the Strait of Hormuz, which forty percent of that region's (the Middle East's) oil (seventy percent of the worlds oil) is transported through.

Can you imagine what would happen if this occurred? The price of oil would shoot past $500 a barrel! And if that were to happen, especially since most of the western world sits in a recession and teeters on a depression, it would be would be worse then crippling the western economies... it would cause their economies to come to a grinding halt instantaneously! Talk about Goliath falling, the whole world would hear the sound of the mighty west falling!

Another consequence of military action against Iran would be that most, if not all, of the Middle East nations would work together as one people for the first time in history. This is something the US cannot have, for the fragmentation of these nations have helped US interests in not only the region, but also the rest of the world.

Interests such as allowing the US to have key military bases, which are close to nations such as Russia, China, North Korea and Pakistan to name a few. However, make no mistake, the main interest has always been about cheep oil but with such nations working together oil would no longer be so. Therefore, with such accord that would come from these nations acting as one, the American influence, in not only that region, but the rest of the world would diminish severely.

Yet another consequence, and probably the most feared, is that if America and Israel would attack Iran it may pull Russia and China in as well; for their interests in Iran have included deals which are important for the survival of their economies.

Besides, Russia didn't allow US to attack Iran. That's why USA sits silent right now, waiting till they involve more military forces in Georgia so they can attack Iran.

I'm not sure what you mean by "waiting till they involve more military forces in Georgia so they can attack Iran" for it conflicts with this, "Besides, Russia didn't allow US to attack Iran. That's why USA sits silent right now" ...

However, you are right about Russia not wanting the US to attack Iran, but you are wrong if you think that Russia alone would stop the US from attacking Iran.

The truth is, if there was to be an attack on Iran it would not come from the hand of the Americans, but from the Israelis.

And if Israelis were to do this they would only attack the 200+ nuclear production sites and perhaps some key military sites. In fact such an attack would only help the Russians gain more money, for who would Iran goto for help in rebuilding their nuclear facilities?

There is a lot of money to be made, for all involved, if the right type of an attack were to be made on Iran.


However, even if Russia were to gain from it - what it would lose would trump any possible gains from such an attack...


So would an attack on Iran cause another world war?


I think you already know the answer, and I for one hope it does...

LOL!

[Pizdzius]

LOL is quite a wrong answer :p

no, seriously, you misunderstood me, since english isn't my native language and I used the polish form. So let me correct myself:

Besides, Russia didn't allow US to attack Iran. That's why USA sits silent right now, waiting till they (Russia) involve more military forces in Georgia so they (USA) can attack Iran.

[fluffy_muffin]

Yay more oil based war...
Hopefully Russia wont go Nazi style on the emos :|
For me as European and Polish citizen - free and wealthy Georgia is guaranty of economical safety. Why? Cause Georgia is only way to have gas and oil from non-Russian source for good price. When Polish-Ukrainian-Georgian plan to build gas pipe will fall we will have problems. Italy also cause they wanted to have non-Russian gas this way too.
Talking about emotions. Just read what Russia citizens are writing about this war.

[UmarilsStillHere]

Some people think that part of the reson for this invasion is to take/destroy the oil pipeline in the south of Georgia makeing all oil to the west HAVE to come through Russia (near enough) this would make Russia very powerfull and very likely very very rich also this is a war that Georgia simply cant win alone if you compare militarys with Russia and if the UN or USA gets involved we could very possibly have another world war on our hands and the "Russian steamroller" could proberly flatten Euroup in under a year with shear force of arms...

[Pizdzius]

Some people think that part of the reson for this invasion is to take/destroy the oil pipeline in the south of Georgia makeing all oil to the west HAVE to come through Russia (near enough) this would make Russia very powerfull and very likely very very rich also this is a war that Georgia simply cant win alone if you compare militarys with Russia and if the UN or USA gets involved we could very possibly have another world war on our hands and the "Russian steamroller" could proberly flatten Euroup in under a year with shear force of arms...

I think that steamroller is USA at this point

[DkySven]

Some people think that part of the reson for this invasion is to take/destroy the oil pipeline in the south of Georgia makeing all oil to the west HAVE to come through Russia (near enough) this would make Russia very powerfull and very likely very very rich also this is a war that Georgia simply cant win alone if you compare militarys with Russia and if the UN or USA gets involved we could very possibly have another world war on our hands and the "Russian steamroller" could proberly flatten Euroup in under a year with shear force of arms...
Me thinks of the last time(1920) Russia invaded Poland by his own. I don't think Poland will be overrun, they never were naive in things involving Russia.

[Pizdzius]

Me thinks of the last time(1920) Russia invaded Poland by his own. I don't think Poland will be overrun, they never were naive in things involving Russia.

uuhh i wouldn't agree about the naive part, but we usually didn't get a chance to say no to their regim :p

Poland doesn't have much to do this time, our president just helped Georgia's president to set up an internet news account cause Russia hacked his page, but now they also hacked ours xD

but we're not really in the position to offer any help cause we don't have any resources or troops

[ArcticWolf]

our president just helped Georgia's president to set up an internet news account cause Russia hacked his page, but now they also hacked ours xD

I DIDN'T DO IT! Really.

PS: Sorry, I couldn't resist myself.

[Pizdzius]

I DIDN'T DO IT! Really.

PS: Sorry, I couldn't resist myself.

well duUUhhh

[Ertial]

During Russian bombardments at Gori a Dutch cameraman of RTL news was killed after the mediacentre was hit. The reported he accompanied was wounded. The Dutch secretary of foreign affairs has summoned the Russian ambassador.

[Pizdzius]

During Russian bombardments at Gori a Dutch cameraman of RTL news was killed after the mediacentre was hit. The reported he accompanied was wounded. The Dutch secretary of foreign affairs has summoned the Russian ambassador.

Russia declared they're finished and then they bombarded Gori. ;/ i know

[Valorius]

"War will make corpses of us all."
~Faromir of Gondor.

[Pizdzius]

"War will make corpses of us all."
~Faromir of Gondor.
I'd say death will make corpses of us all :p

[Valorius]

Hahah, that's a safe bet. :sifflote: