View Full Version : Fighting with SOTW
fluffy_muffin
08-28-2008, 07:54 AM
"So everything is fine, isn't it?
Actually, no, i don't think it is."
My motto :P
IMVHO SotW should be dispelled with first attack of caster or his pet. It is escape spell right? So it shouldn't be alowed to use it as attack spell.
Regards.
_dracus_
08-28-2008, 08:48 AM
Honnestly in 1vs1 i really don't bother. Where it starts to get hard is when you fight more than 1 archer in SotW.
InsektO
08-28-2008, 09:05 AM
"So everything is fine, isn't it?
Actually, no, i don't think it is."
My motto :P
IMVHO SotW should be dispelled with first attack of caster or his pet. It is escape spell right? So it shouldn't be alowed to use it as attack spell.
Regards.
SoTW is not an escape spell. It is mostly used for escaping, but its not designed with that sole purpose. The player has the chance to choose how to use the skill: offensively or deffensively.
Nevertheless, I think it should be changed. For example, in lvl 5, 15 sec duration, 500 mana and 75% evade chance but only until (say) 10 evades max. In that way, a bombarded archer could not survive even with SoTW...
Mikan
08-28-2008, 09:36 AM
Nice joke Fluffy, but you aren't going to get me. :)
Regards.
save_the_trees
08-28-2008, 10:49 AM
wow, to hear such an opinion from a hunter is somewhat unexpected fluffy :clapping5365: . On the other hand I guess that would totally ruin the setup of some players ... I even wonder if some would still play hunter. So I guess there must be some alternative which everybody can accept
-RedStar-
08-28-2008, 11:15 AM
Nevertheless, I think it should be changed. For example, in lvl 5, 15 sec duration, 500 mana and 75% evade chance but only until (say) 10 evades max. In that way, a bombarded archer could not survive even with SoTW...
great idea...:)
Snoid
08-28-2008, 11:34 AM
It's great to see (some) hunters being reasonable.
The suggestion from Insekto (a cap in number of hits, like Blood Thirst) sounds good to me too.
Due to it's duration, SOTW it's being used as a "pre fight" skill sometimes, like mages use "Barrier".
I'm not saying this is not fair. Im saying this is the lamest play and the most unbalanced skill by far.
Something have to be done.
makarios68
08-28-2008, 12:47 PM
Make a bigger world where you don't bump into the zerg every 50m.
Make confuse harder to obtain, so that ever 2-bit archer isn't casting it like he has no other spell.
Reduce the dmg of a spell that can kill you with one hit (S/C).
Reduce the blocks of a knight.
Give mod a shorter duration.
Make steel skin give less physical dmg reducion so that archers have a chance against it.
Do all these things and i'll be happy to manage without sow.
Or alternatively, don't nerf every class and just keep things as they are.
Fluffy, if you don't like using sow, then fine, but stop complaining when others chose to use it.
Every class has an 'overpowered' spell.
Just because sow doesn't fit into your game-plan, don't expect the rest of us to suffer...
fluffy_muffin
08-28-2008, 12:53 PM
Every class has an 'overpowered' spell.
Just because sow doesn't fit into your game-plan, don't expect the rest of us to suffer...
Then f* off from stalker.
fluffy_muffin
08-28-2008, 01:08 PM
Nice joke Fluffy, but you aren't going to get me. :)
Regards.
Don't spoil the fun! :D
:bounce:
Angelwinged_Devil
08-28-2008, 03:11 PM
sotw, meh sucks
SOTW can be changed a bit.....but no how fluffy suggested. I think fluffy sometimes you want to push your "I hate sotw" config on others...and it's not quite necessary.
But...I do agree that it could change for the better. Keep the duration, keep as it us - BUT - make it so that NO SPELLS AT ALL can be casted. I think too many people use it to deliver those evil wicked spells like confuse or DS.
However....as long as people use things like confuse, MOD, meteor, DS, etc as their first attacking spell....archers with sotw will use it.
-Edge-
08-28-2008, 03:55 PM
I for one agree, can conjurers attack in Sanctuary, can Archers attack in Low Profile? Sotw would be best used in the method of it stops after 2 attacks.
BUT, theres now way in hell I am going to look at another archer update.
I think fluffy sometimes you want to push your "I hate sotw" config on others...and it's not quite necessary.
Actually its almost the same thing as barbarians that hate SC monkies. Really I know in a way its like we are trying to tell people how to play (and it is), but you need to understand it ruins the whole class because then everyone wants to play like that.
UmarilsStillHere
08-28-2008, 05:09 PM
Nevertheless, I think it should be changed. For example, in lvl 5, 15 sec duration, 500 mana and 75% evade chance but only until (say) 10 evades max. In that way, a bombarded archer could not survive even with SoTW...
I like that a lot but a few changes,
It should be with or without SOTW it should be evasion AND blocks in general and as opposed to X hits it should be if you are under atk from 5~ players then your evasion/block chance goes to 0 and that includes SOTW/Protecter, basicaly no matter what spell your useing if your being atked by more than 5 players then evadeing or blocking should be impossible.
After all NO ONE (outside of films) can dodge 5 people at once they would simply be overwhealmed by attacks from all angles and pummled.
makarios68
08-28-2008, 05:29 PM
sotw, meh sucks
so does mod 1v1, but that doesn't stop you using it...
makarios68
08-28-2008, 05:33 PM
Then f* off from stalker.
That's a no-brainer.
I frequently use stalker myself, so it is often part of my game plan.
But even tho i use cofigs with stalker i still think it should be cancelled with any attack...
fluffy_muffin
08-28-2008, 05:50 PM
However....as long as people use things like confuse, MOD, meteor, DS, etc as their first attacking spell....archers with sotw will use it.
As long as ppl use sotw to start or win fight i will use confuse :P
I was provocation and joke. JAJAJA :P
fluffy_muffin
08-28-2008, 06:02 PM
But even tho i use cofigs with stalker i still think it should be cancelled with any attack...
So do i with SOTW :harhar:
Jedi-x
08-28-2008, 08:14 PM
I also think SOtW should be changed ........ yes...this coming from a hunter who uses it from time to time. IMHO .... once a hunter goes into SOtW , he shouldn't be allowed to attack AT ALL. It is part of the evasion tree, it's meant for defense, therefore once in SOtW, the hunter has taken a "defensive position" , and therefore ... shouldn't be allowed to attack .... period. If he attacks, then SOtW should be cancelled out, and not available again till the cooldown has completed. And I still stand by my opions for stalker ...... hits / evades should also cancel that spell. And before you flame me ....... I use all of these skills on certain builds, including confuse, I have and will use those skills that DO work, and aren't a waste of points, but .... there has to be some give and take, just like SC ....... totally overpowered, and YES I also have a barb , and NO I refuse to use SC because it is so overpowered. There are so many other spells available to barbs that cause tons of damage, I feel as if SC should follow along the path that TFB did back some time ago ....... it needs some adjusting as do the above mentioned spells for us hunters.
Just my 2 cents
Miraculix
08-28-2008, 09:56 PM
SotW-mania is the reason for all the Confuse-mania. It's the only thing archers can do against SotW, and you bet your ass they're gonna spam confuse like there's no tomorrow. SotW users brought this upon themselves, quit yer whining about confuse already.
makarios68
08-28-2008, 10:08 PM
SotW-mania is the reason for all the Confuse-mania. It's the only thing archers can do against SotW, and you bet your ass they're gonna spam confuse like there's no tomorrow. SotW users brought this upon themselves, quit yer whining about confuse already.
There has been very little focus in this thread about confuse, or very little complaining about it.
The complaining has been about sow users.
As for the suggestion someone made about sow being cancelled by any attack, there should be a sub-forum named 'comedy' for that...
fluffy_muffin
08-28-2008, 10:11 PM
As for the suggestion someone made about sow being cancelled by any attack, there should be a sub-forum named 'comedy' for that...
By any sotw user attack. And btw this is inn :P Small dwarf = small sense of humor?
Jedi-x
08-28-2008, 11:36 PM
In my post, I made mention to SOtW being cancelled if the SOtW user attacks, not if they themselves get attacked. The spell is meant to resist / evade most all attacks, but it is an evasion / defensive skill, therefore IMHO ........ the user should not be allowed to attack him / herself, otherwise their attack should cancel out the spell.
makarios68
08-29-2008, 02:26 AM
Small dwarf = small sense of humor?
Hey, i made my dwarf large!!!
I'm at least 3cm taller than some other dwarves!!!...
fluffy_muffin
08-29-2008, 10:36 AM
I'm at least 3cm taller than some other dwarves!!!...
In helmet :P
Foggia
08-29-2008, 11:05 AM
In my post, I made mention to SOtW being cancelled if the SOtW user attacks, not if they themselves get attacked. The spell is meant to resist / evade most all attacks, but it is an evasion / defensive skill, therefore IMHO ........ the user should not be allowed to attack him / herself, otherwise their attack should cancel out the spell.
/me agrees. sotw is probably #1 on my hated spells list.
_dracus_
08-29-2008, 11:09 AM
/me agrees. sotw is probably #1 on my hated spells list.
For a warlock it's deadly, or at least for my pt warlock it is. For a barbarian I won't say the same :)
Foggia
08-29-2008, 11:11 AM
For a warlock it's deadly, or at least for my pt warlock it is. For a barbarian I won't say the same :)
Im a berserker, I can hit strong, but I get hit strong also. When I cant make damage Im usually raped.
padreigh
08-29-2008, 11:35 AM
Evasion Tree IS NOT a "Use one of this spells and you've forfeit attacking others"-disziple ... so stop trying to tell us archers how to use our skills.
Just in case you didnt notice, archers using SOTW get hit more often since one of the last updates (sideeffect of trying to fix randomgenerator maybe?) so it already GOT nerved. Half the Evasion spells have to be used to be ABLE to fight any other player, why not the toplevel one? For a spell that is THAT expensive it being cancelled after 2 own attacks would be a waste of mana. If youre fighting 5 other ppl and use sotw THEY should be able to kill you after its duration is over. You might take 1 or 2 down, but not all 5. If you face a sotb hunter - kill his pet. If hes a petless hunter 5v1 will take care of him. If its a marksmen - He burned mana he could have used to do damage - rejoice - and let your teammates take care of him. If you got a 1v1 and he wins - shrug it off. Death is cheap and you should be more carefull next time.
(jfye: i use sotb on lvl2 in dire situations and NEVER to start a 1v1).
fluffy_muffin
08-29-2008, 12:03 PM
after its duration is over. You might take 1 or 2 down, but not all 5. If you
So he can take 1-2 ppl out of 5 in 1vs.5 and it is ok. Am i correct? Uhmm. And he can cast it at the end of fight and kill someone who would kill him if he wouldn't have sotw. Am i correct?
I have one more question. If it is so bad spell after last changes then why so many is using it?
makarios68
08-29-2008, 12:43 PM
In helmet :P
Nope, high-heal shoes actually.
But it's a secret so shh...
Heglin
08-29-2008, 12:47 PM
Just in case you didnt notice, archers using SOTW get hit more often since one of the last updates (sideeffect of trying to fix randomgenerator maybe?) so it already GOT nerved.
I have'nt noticed any nerf, some archers still dance infront of 3-4 enemies without getting hit (last one was igni). If anyone can do that then it just makes the whole game a joke. I could get a block rate like the SotW evade rate with protector but then i can't attack.
If anyone wonders why ppl get mad at archers it's because they can get away with almost everything as it is now. Most other classes die (sometimes slowly but still) when they try to go 1 vs 5.
fluffy_muffin
08-29-2008, 12:49 PM
Nope, high-heal shoes actually.
But it's a secret so shh...
I must ask Comp do you veet legs :P
magnet
08-29-2008, 12:54 PM
SotW is bad. So are Spell Eludes & Dodge but I don't think zielski wants to nerf them :). Much less Confuse (duration) which is also wrong for this game.
fluffy_muffin
08-29-2008, 12:57 PM
SotW is bad. So are Spell Eludes & Dodge but I don't think zielski wants to nerf them :). Much less Confuse (duration) which is also wrong for this game.
Zielski don't have spell elude and don't like sotw as it is now. And he also would like to have confuse as 17 in tricks. But instead of asking him you make judgements. As always. :tsk_tsk:
Good old Magnet
magnet
08-29-2008, 12:58 PM
Zielski don't have spell elude and don't like sotw as it is now. And he also would like to have confuse as 17 in tricks. But instead of asking him you make judgements. As always. :tsk_tsk:
Good old Magnet
YHBT. :lol:
fluffy_muffin
08-29-2008, 01:01 PM
YHBT. :lol:
Sure.
I also love you. :*
_dracus_
08-29-2008, 01:03 PM
Im a berserker, I can hit strong, but I get hit strong also. When I cant make damage Im usually raped.
Use berserk at your own risk, you can still hit very hard without it.
magnet
08-29-2008, 01:05 PM
Sure.
I also love you. :*
:wub2: :wub2:
UmarilsStillHere
08-29-2008, 01:13 PM
I dont beleive SOTW has been changed at all, all I saw in your "proveing it" thread were a load of "fail" screens were you got hit several times with it on this will obviously happen sometimes.
I have noticed NO change and untill i land 2-3 hits through a SOTW then im saying its exactly the same as it was 1 hit if your lucky.
It should be lowered to either 50% of 60% evasion or be given a stagered bonus like protecter so that the full effect can only be acheived on lvl 5 maybe something like
lvl1 30% evade chance +3% speed
lvl2 40% evade chance +6% speed
lvl3 50% evade chance +9% speed I dont know about mana costs as im
lvl4 60% evade chance +12% speed unsure of the current cost lvl by lvl
lvl5 70% evade chance +15% speed
currently its too good on lvl 1/2 (were its largely used) there is no other lvl 1 spell I know of that offers the same protection.
I must ask Comp do you veet legs :P
No....he's a hairy little dwarf....
fluffy_muffin
08-29-2008, 04:13 PM
No....he's a hairy little dwarf....
In high hills? And you are hunting with him? :piz:
makarios68
08-29-2008, 04:24 PM
Wudy has never used veet on his legs, only on his undercarriage before dates with lady dwarves...
-RedStar-
08-29-2008, 04:27 PM
lady dwarves...
they have beards too?:o
Heglin
08-29-2008, 07:11 PM
they have beards too?:o
I found some evidence ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfs_(Discworld)
-RedStar-
08-29-2008, 07:23 PM
oh man pratchett...:P
Wudy without armor
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/children/The-American-Girl-Home-Book-Of-Work-And-Play/images/The-German-Dwarf.png
makarios68
08-29-2008, 09:02 PM
Wudy without armor
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/children/The-American-Girl-Home-Book-Of-Work-And-Play/images/The-German-Dwarf.png
A suitable punishment must be found for this insolence...:looking:
Valour
08-29-2008, 09:22 PM
Wudy without armor
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/children/The-American-Girl-Home-Book-Of-Work-And-Play/images/The-German-Dwarf.png
LOL :D
A suitable punishment must be found for this insolence...:looking:
Sorry Hefe......I shall sacrifice a dozen elves in your honor.....
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