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Angelwinged_Devil
11-10-2008, 10:05 PM
I need to get a message across, and the best way to do it is through you, I already have them covered up in syrtis, what I need is contact information for those in alsius/ignis

Fiddiccan
11-11-2008, 03:50 AM
You can't just write something like that and not tell people anything.
You piqued my curiousity!

kinsa11
11-11-2008, 07:38 AM
Tyrs doesn't have a real leader, but if you want to contact us I'd say send your message to eisteewelt (Flens), Irodia or me, because I think we are the only ones that read the forum.

eisteewelt
11-11-2008, 08:12 AM
Send Send Send SEEEENNNNNDDDD me UR message ;)

Yawney
11-11-2008, 11:07 AM
MoN is listening...

kinsa11
11-11-2008, 11:09 AM
Send Send Send SEEEENNNNNDDDD me UR message ;)

Greedy little bastard!

I am way nicer AND better looking, I'd say send it to me :superpusso:

eisteewelt
11-11-2008, 11:17 AM
Greedy little bastard!

I am way nicer AND better looking, I'd say send it to me :superpusso:


I´ll kick ur Ass for that :P

Angelwinged_Devil
11-11-2008, 02:12 PM
I'll snd it to both of you :p happy?

eisteewelt
11-11-2008, 03:26 PM
Yep :banana:

Greetz, Flens

bigjim
11-12-2008, 09:45 AM
I heard about these rules, and as a knight won't be following them. I know I can't get in game much, but soon I will be able to play more. I will use the spells to help my realm mates and myself. No cuddling bullshit for me.

Jim

Miraculix
11-12-2008, 09:52 AM
I heard about these rules, and as a knight won't be following them. I know I can't get in game much, but soon I will be able to play more. I will use the spells to help my realm mates and myself. No cuddling bullshit for me.

Jim

Pretty much what Inquisition will do as well. Count us out for this one.

eisteewelt
11-12-2008, 10:16 AM
Yesterday, some of Tyr's talk about that...There are soooo much questions and no answers!

An Example:
A Syrt and an Alu Zerg (like 10 Ppl) without Knights Def.-Bar.---> Lock is casing ST, all down (no Block)...Barb rush with LS or something else---all Death!!!
With Def.-Bar. there is a chance to Block the ST and strike back..

Fight without Def.-Bar. like 10 mins, because u not block some spells!!
Fight with Def.-Bar. more then 10 mins, because u block some spells!!

I talk for myself, but a War without those spells...I´ll leave the WZ!

Flens

_dracus_
11-12-2008, 10:26 AM
Fight without Def.-Bar. like 10 mins, because u not block some spells!!
Fight with Def.-Bar. more then 10 mins, because u block some spells!!

I talk for myself, but a War without those spells...I´ll leave the WZ!

Flens

Defensive stence ? Unstoppable madness ? :)

Miraculix
11-12-2008, 11:24 AM
Defensive stence ? Unstoppable madness ? :)

Those would be the kind of spells that we were not supposed to use as they were "luck" spells.

Besides, not everyone is a barb ^^

kinsa11
11-12-2008, 11:24 AM
Defensive stence ? Unstoppable madness ? :)

Using the logic for "forbidden spells" Unstoppable madness will be one too, cause it doesn't work in 100% and therefore is a luck skill.

I'll go even further AWD:

You have to forbid shields for knights -> blockchance -> luck
Armor with +dex -> evadechance -> luck
Armor with + evadechance -> luck
Amulets + rings with evadechance -> luck
...

Of course this will be

1. nothing you can control
2. a tiiiny tiiiiny bit ridiculous

Fiddiccan
11-12-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm still curious as to what all this madness is about. :tsk_tsk:

ncvr
11-12-2008, 12:42 PM
I'm still curious as to what all this madness is about. :tsk_tsk:
No chance spells for 1 week. Basically no:

-Protector
-Precise block
-Deflecting barrier
-Spell elude
-Dodge
-SotW
-Wind Wall

AWD archers can play without these spells but knights just can't.

bigjim
11-12-2008, 01:05 PM
I don't even use protector much; even though I should. A knight without precise block is jut like a weak barb with more hp. I also don't think my realm mates would be too happy with me not using db in a fort fight. I like the theory AWD, but I just don't think it can work. :(

_dracus_
11-12-2008, 01:10 PM
No luck spells ? For barbs it means:
- No SC
- No Ripost
- No Beast attack
- No Defensive stence
- No Madness

It's starts to be a lot of thing that you can't use. Does it means conjuror shouldn't use Mind blank, and Dispells ?

Angelwinged_Devil
11-12-2008, 02:28 PM
ok maybe som peopl misunderstand some things (I'll excuse for missing e's in this post as that button is a bit broken right now)

when I speak about luck spells I mean deflecting barrier, protection dome etc. NOT south cross, unstoppable madness etc. These are chance spells but I guess I should use better words

spells that boosts enhances or gives another layer of resist/evade/block

It could work perfectly fine.


An Example:
A Syrt and an Alu Zerg (like 10 Ppl) without Knights Def.-Bar.---> Lock is casing ST, all down (no Block)...Barb rush with LS or something else---all Death!!!
With Def.-Bar. there is a chance to Block the ST and strike back..

this is the thing I'm talking about and what needs to be changed, there are other counters for sultars terror, deflecting barrier just means that anything else will also have a big chance of getting blocked, most things will actually which will give only one option of resistance to the opposite team, to use these spells as well.

Then we will have zergs on both sides in the end and the one luckiest will win not the one thinking better, sure it's cool to win but in the end this is going to be frustrating, after some time playing it will become dull when this is the only thing you can do in a fort war.

It can work all well, people will have to find ways to play that doesn't rely on luck, really have to know what they are doing when fighting, it would make horus wz a nice place to play for a week where there will be room for plenty of strategies

I have another thing just to avoid more of this
are these spells?

You have to forbid shields for knights -> blockchance -> luck
Armor with +dex -> evadechance -> luck
Armor with + evadechance -> luck
Amulets + rings with evadechance -> luck

these are items not spells

eerO
11-12-2008, 05:12 PM
Um, whats this thread about?

Youre looking for the clanleaders on Horus to send them a few questions or what?

Well, Wyatt, the Dark Legion leader isnt on atm (hes busy) so you could send it to me, because nobody of our clan reads the forum as much as Wyatt and i do...


Regards

kinsa11
11-12-2008, 05:30 PM
I have another thing just to avoid more of this
are these spells?

these are items not spells

Why is an item that creates "oh so bad and random" evasion or blocks better than a spell, that produces nothing else?

Fiddiccan
11-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Deflecting barrier is not a luck spell, sorry to break it to you

Angelwinged_Devil
11-12-2008, 06:01 PM
kinsa these spells create an extra layer which is no way countable no matter what you do, there's no counter for them.

deflecting barrier IS a luck spell fiddican it gives you and the people in the area of it a chance to block

Vroek
11-12-2008, 06:09 PM
kinsa these spells create an extra layer which is no way countable no matter what you do, there's no counter for them.

deflecting barrier IS a luck spell fiddican it gives you and the people in the area of it a chance to block

No, it just effect their allies.
And there are some counters for it, close combat (within range 4) or mind squasher.

Gideon_Slack
11-12-2008, 07:27 PM
At the end of the day, RO is a role-playing game (MMORPG), not a First Person Shooter.

RPG's will always have an element of luck involved; only an FPS is entirely skill based. (Though you can debate how much luck there should be).

Remove luck, and you have an MMOFPS; probably fun but an entirely different game.

Angelwinged_Devil
11-12-2008, 07:41 PM
At the end of the day, RO is a role-playing game (MMORPG), not a First Person Shooter.

RPG's will always have an element of luck involved; only an FPS is entirely skill based. (Though you can debate how much luck there should be).

Remove luck, and you have an MMOFPS; probably fun but an entirely different game.
no you don't... you don't run around with a gun <_>


And there are some counters for it, close combat (within range 4) or mind squasher.

well I mean in spells and archers/mages doesn't have that spell, in a fort war with people standing on a wall how do oyu expect to get in melee range there?

besides all this there's always protection dome which is resist power

Miraculix
11-13-2008, 03:39 AM
only an FPS is entirely skill based.

How about RTS's? :P

G40st
11-13-2008, 06:03 AM
I would consider FPS to be more luckbased then skillbased compared to a mmorpg or RTS.

FPS is all about moving your "crosshair" aka mouse over the enemy and clickling the mouse button before he does the same on you.


In a RTS you need too use your brain and think what units i need, what should i do with them, what is my approach when the enemy does this and that etc and to do this you need to be incredibly skilled, i for once, who are a pretty solid WC3 player, got my ass handed to me some weeks ago by a friends friend which shows he had more skill then me.

In a MMORPG there is alot of skill, thats why in many common games you see some people complaining about a class that is overpowered when actually all that is happening is that a guy that knows his class is behind the monitor.
Some might still be considered overpowered but hey, play the class yourself and see how "overpowered" it really is. Some classes might look overpowered but when you study the class you realize that's not the truth.

kinsa11
11-13-2008, 10:12 AM
In my opinion it doesn't make any sense to forbid several spells that work exactly as they are supposed to work.
Evasion is necessary for an archer, blocking is necessary for a knight... that is what defines those classes.

If those spells were "stolen" from my hunter, I would only go on with playing my warlock. Btw AWD... aren't you a warlock :sifflote:

_dracus_
11-13-2008, 10:26 AM
In my opinion it doesn't make any sense to forbid several spells that work exactly as they are supposed to work.
Evasion is necessary for an archer, blocking is necessary for a knight... that is what defines those classes.

If those spells were "stolen" from my hunter, I would only go on with playing my warlock. Btw AWD... aren't you a warlock :sifflote:

Hunters needs no "luck" spell to win, honnestly only the noobness of our ennemies is usefull (a good old retaliation :p, and sudden strike ^^).

ncvr
11-13-2008, 10:44 AM
Kinsa, hunters do not need evasion spells (which increase evasion, maybe there is some need for armour against a warlock and resist dmg spells) at all.

My hunter has lvl 11 evasion - no spell elude. Just lvl 3 acrobatic and lvl 3 mobility, sometimes I get lvl 3 evasive tactics as well. And I do perfectly fine without it. I don't have many screenshots of my combat log, but I could just log in, find some enemies and get some pictures.

kinsa11
11-13-2008, 11:23 AM
There are other setups possible, of course. I did never say anything contrary. Many classes can be played in several different ways. But I don't see the sense in stealing some spells and like that force people to use certain setups.

Whatever, this discussion is absolutely useless, it only works if everybody is going to follow those rules, and

Inq said they are not going to
T H C said he is not going to (and I guess whole Frozen Flame is out)
Tyrs said they are not going to

elendriel
11-13-2008, 11:26 AM
kinsa these spells create an extra layer which is no way countable no matter what you do, there's no counter for them.

deflecting barrier IS a luck spell fiddican it gives you and the people in the area of it a chance to block
Deflecting barrier has counter, a risky one, but it has. The called mind squasher :-D

Angelwinged_Devil
11-13-2008, 02:44 PM
In my opinion it doesn't make any sense to forbid several spells that work exactly as they are supposed to work.
Evasion is necessary for an archer, blocking is necessary for a knight... that is what defines those classes.

If those spells were "stolen" from my hunter, I would only go on with playing my warlock. Btw AWD... aren't you a warlock :sifflote:
I'm not going to go over this again, search the forum for answers, I have plans to play all classes so please...

and they are NOT nescesary


There are other setups possible, of course. I did never say anything contrary.




But I don't see the sense in stealing some spells and like that force people to use certain setups.

you haven't played enough yet, but maybe the randomness will go away before you get to the point where everyone else is about all this luck


Deflecting barrier has counter, a risky one, but it has. The called mind squasher :-D

archers/mages has none, besides do you know how hard it would be to get that in against a blockspammin' knight?

let's see if we look at the fact that no other spells is affecting him

first the spell has to go through the evasion layer, then the resist layer and finally the blocking layer, if it does this and hits him it has to be decided if the squash was successful.

I'm tired of theese discussions which is why I was trying to contact people privately.

The sense of this proposal was to play WITHOUT luck on the horus server for a week, go for a skillbased server and see how people liked it, apparently people are too afraid not to win. Classes can still be useful but some fail to see this.

I'm done answering to anything about this matter, fact is these spells are overpowered and should be removed from the damn war zone so we can have a great game again, since the patch of doom things have gotten worse balancewise and things are out of control with these spells. It was nice playing on horus until randomness was discovered there too though. I was hoping to go back to this to have some battles based on strategy and skill rather than luck. people become soft because of it, and this proposal will breed good players who knows what to do in war and how to play their damn class, it's hard to determine with the luck around.
the above thing IS a fact, not my opnion.

bigjim
11-13-2008, 04:38 PM
To me it is the look that you AWD hold an air of arrogancy about you. You take no spells away from a warlock. It's not fair, and honestly this whole idea is not going to work. No one will follow the rules, and what is the reason for these rules?

Also, don't tell Kinsa she hasn't played long enough.. She has been on the German server for quite some time. I have fought her as an enemy, and you. She is way harder of an enemy, so don't write before you think.

I am done with this discussion. See everyone around in the warzone.

P.S. - I play by no rules, but my own.

eisteewelt
11-13-2008, 04:45 PM
To me it is the look that you AWD hold an air of arrogancy about you. You take no spells away from a warlock. It's not fair, and honestly this whole idea is not going to work. No one will follow the rules, and what is the reason for these rules?

Also, don't tell Kinsa she hasn't played long enough.. She has been on the German server for quite some time. I have fought her as an enemy, and you. She is way harder of an enemy, so don't write before you think.

I am done with this discussion. See everyone around in the warzone.

P.S. - I play by no rules, but my own.


This what we all thing about. Amen!

DkySven
11-13-2008, 05:20 PM
, besides do you know how hard it would be to get that in against a blockspammin' knight?


The sense of this proposal was to play WITHOUT luck on the horus server for a week, go for a skillbased server and see how people liked it, apparently people are too afraid not to win.

Those are just two examples of sophisms you're using. You are not providing real arguments, just shouting something.

(I'm going collect screenshots of every fort war and small fight I participate and post them here to show you how messed up blocking is, we are not "blockspammin' ", not at all. Without spells our blocking rate is almost the same as a warlock's evade rate.)

Angelwinged_Devil
11-13-2008, 06:09 PM
To me it is the look that you AWD hold an air of arrogancy about you. You take no spells away from a warlock. It's not fair, and honestly this whole idea is not going to work. No one will follow the rules, and what is the reason for these rules?

ask kinsa, wind wall was in the list

the reason for the rules I have already told, to get skillbased strategy, and see a lot of these than just spammin' auras.


Also, don't tell Kinsa she hasn't played long enough.. She has been on the German server for quite some time. I have fought her as an enemy, and you. She is way harder of an enemy

long enough to feel the dullness

here's the thing short

1. I don't want to tell people how to play.

2. But I also want to play skillbased war that's why I make this proposal, notice it's a PROPOSAL, I'm asking if people want to do this, I'm not saying they have to.

3. To make this happen these spells has to be forbidden.

this is all in short, if you have anything else against ME give it to me in a pm instead of this thread, so stop attacking please when I have an idea. It's stupid.

This week could be a cool week to try out different tactics.

PS. when will people stop making arguments based on one of the classes I play? "you play a warlock, why don't you?..." "you play a warlock, so..." "oh but you play a warlock so..."

SmUrV
11-13-2008, 07:32 PM
I'm up for anything to make it a little intersting even if for just a week.

A knight can be played without block i do it all the time. :)

The issue may not be the spells themselves but the way people rely on them.


However, the biggest problem with this idea is getting EVERYONE to do it and that imho will be impossible. No matter how much you tell people no matter how much planning or discussion, you will never get all of the players on horus to play like this. Infact i foresee people setting up specifically to counter such an idea just to get easy rp.

Fiddiccan
11-20-2008, 12:15 AM
Sorry for bumping this thread. :x

I just wanted to say that, even though you got flamed bad by people here AWD, you opened up my mind.
I'm currently trying out different setups to minimize luck and optimize skills, it's a long and hard process, but I hope that it will bring some success :banana:

I found out you can actually kill stuff without precise block!
Thanks for the eye-opener dude!

(<3)

Mattdoesrock
11-20-2008, 12:29 AM
/me prepares for AWD explosion.

:p

clanmule
11-21-2008, 04:17 AM
Jesus awd..you really are an idiot :D every post i read is you giving some false information about everything and then sayin "uh oh sorry i was tired and on pain killers when i typed that" and then i read this :D seriously..wtf

SmUrV
11-21-2008, 06:12 PM
Jesus awd..you really are an idiot :D every post i read is you giving some false information about everything and then sayin "uh oh sorry i was tired and on pain killers when i typed that" and then i read this :D seriously..wtf


Hmm, seems the real idiot here is the one with nothing useful to say...