For those who thought....

[Hell_bound]

Obama would usher in a new wind of change, I would ask you to look at this: http://i40.tinypic.com/11tqy52.jpg and then post your feelings on this matter.

[Hell_bound]

Come on people! I know you have an opinion on this?

I don't care if you are for or against the man because what I seek is your opinion of the picture and what it symbolizes.

Please keep it civil though...

[ArcticWolf]

I was thinking about that just a minute ago. They look similar, but when you take into account that Obama and Bush have both the standard American phenotype in their bloodlines it's not so strange to think that.

The picture doesn't simbolize the previous statement, though. In my opinion, it's about what, sadly, is true about politicians: they look, speak and act all the same no matter their skin colour, party or religion.

[Nightchill]

they look nothing alike, it's just a good optical illusion created by slowly transforming bush to look more like obama :)

[Miraculix]

OMG! It's not the president that runs the show in the US! They're all the same because they are insignificant! And OMG THE SKY IS BLUE! Today is full of surprises!

Welcome to the world, have a seat, enjoy the killing.

[Mantarni]

Means nothing, there are a ton of these. In fact, this is a cheaper one - I've seen a gif that had bush morphing into hitler before your eyes (can't find link).

[Hell_bound]

OMG! It's not the president that runs the show in the US! They're all the same because they are insignificant! And OMG THE SKY IS BLUE! Today is full of surprises!

Welcome to the world, have a seat, enjoy the killing.


This is total lulz, Miraculix you rock man!

For real, I almost peed my pants reading that.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Obama would usher in a new wind of change, I would ask you to look at this: http://i40.tinypic.com/11tqy52.jpg and then post your feelings on this matter.

Whats your point..its just Bush morphed into Obama...from what ive seen..(and it aint much, cos politics dont interest me at all)..Bush was a twat...as for Obama..give him a chance he only just got inaugurated..(which i watched on tv btw), but if his stay in office is anything like his speech after he was sweared in...well...we live in hope..dont we ?

[Hell_bound]

Whats your point...

Nothing really other then to gain opinions, however, if you are asking what my opinion is...

It would be much like Miraculix's humorous post, for anyone who has studied politics, power relations, social movements, social-economic status and the relations among these would know that elected officials are figure heads to connect to the masses, and thus compel the masses to go along with the wants, needs of a small group of people within the populous.

Thus, even though Miraculix's post was in jest he was able to expose the reality and truth of American politics, and in a much simpler and funny way then I ever could.

[Angel_de_Combate]

if you are asking what my opinion is...

Nope i wasnt...


for anyone who has studied politics, power relations, social movements, social-economic status and the relations among

Like i said in my previous post..i have no interest in politics....<yawns> way too boring..i prefer to work out my own lifes' politics..thanks.

Thus, even though Miraculix's post was in jest he was able to expose the reality and truth of American politics, and in a much simpler and funny way then I ever could.

All hail Mira ?? xD Dont ask me why...but your post erked me... translation :- erked ~.."to annoy..aggravate.."

[-Edge-]

Its too early to make assumtions at this point. Obama just seems to be winning the majority over right now, and trying to fit all americans into his view. He's fresh and nothing more, as quickly as he is gaining support, thats how quickly it can fall, its very shakey.

He won the pro-natalists when he pushed through abortions in his 1st week as president.

I personally think next he will win over minorities with a massive change in the immigration system, which has been desperatly needed in the US. Asians, arabs, and other groups have been treated racially for awhile.

As much as I hate Bush however and feel he should be arrested for bringing the US into an open war on account of his famous "weapons of mass destruction" I still feel pity for him only because he is a puppet, and he's just a person that takes the blame.

During the Obama campaign, I noticed in most pictures he always had this light on his face, to me it was like a ray of hope in a way. I am only angered because he has turned the White house into some kind of black party house. I hope his wife dosen't have too much control over him, the kids have too much media attention aswell. But thats just my view because I lived in a Ghetto filled with niggas for 15 years... where if you just looked at someone you were shot.

[Hell_bound]

Like i said in my previous post..i have no interest in politics....<yawns> way too boring..i prefer to work out my own lifes' politics..thanks.

Focusing on that tiny of a sphere of influence, focusing on your own life and your own actions, comes with a price for you allow those in power to dictate what you can and cannot do.

But I fear that all Western nations shall end up as Britain; for example, cameras everywhere watching every move the citizen makes.

Kinda like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUxk5IyGgjQ

However, such is the price people pay for not valuing their freedoms.

[ArcticWolf]

Thus, even though Miraculix's post was in jest he was able to expose the reality and truth of American politics, and in a much simpler and funny way then I ever could.

Though we're talking about American politics, I am sure this can be applied to almost every country on Earth. Moreover, to any group of humans. The head of the state is not the visible representation of a man, but a small group formed by some big influential corporations, old politicians and modern day caudillos.

[Hell_bound]

Though we're talking about American politics, I am sure this can be applied to almost every country on Earth. Moreover, to any group of humans. The head of the state is not the visible representation of a man, but a small group formed by some big influential corporations, old politicians and modern day caudillos.

The is true, so very, very true...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caudillos

[Angel_de_Combate]

Focusing on that tiny of a sphere of influence, focusing on your own life and your own actions, comes with a price for you allow those in power to dictate what you can and cannot do.

But I fear that all Western nations shall end up as Britain; for example, cameras everywhere watching every move the citizen makes.

Kinda like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUxk5IyGgjQ

However, such is the price people pay for not valuing their freedoms.

Who said i didnt value my freedom, because i do...i value the fact i have the right to vote (remember the suffragettes ?, one name comes to mind Emily Wilding Davison..)..for equal opportunities, but even in the day and age of equal rights..this job im applying for..well lets just say im the only woman there..im most probably going to be seen as an "novelty". How many men have felt like this ?..i know that if i get said job..ive got to hoist the barriers up..because men look for weaknesses in woman..when they take on a job that they can do just aswell thankyou very much..

When something my government does inflicts on my life personally, then id have a opinion...Obama doesnt rule my country..Gordon Brown does..ooh however actually i do disagree that the government are permanently phasing out benefits for single parents..forcing them to get a job whether they want to or not(this doesnt bother me..i want a job), ive enjoyed watching my children grow up, as far as im concerned..i was a full time mum..it was and still is a full time job. I dont think the government understand this..i couldnt bare to leave my children with a child minder...all day..missing out on all the things they were accomplishing without me there to see it all...no way..i tried to be a working mum for 3 months..i hated it. The only happy medium that happened was when i got interested in gardening..jared was in full time school by then and bethany was able to go to the nursery on the college site...she was just a 5 min walk away from me. Yes i know that there are some parents(if you can call them that), have baby ..after baby..just to stay on benefits so they dont need to get a job..and this is mainly the reason why this phasing out has been introduced. However in light of the british ecconomy..surely..making people get jobs..which arent even there...damn this will just make things worse in my opinion. The only ones suffering in all this..are the children..true..that money makes the world go round..but all children need are the love and guidance of their parents, not the parents hardly even being there..and when they are..there tired and too stressed about money and work to even take the time to just be with them..Whether we like it or not..most families arent two parents..one goes to work..one stays at home with the children..most are single parents like me..who find most days a struggle, its bloody hard work ! I have to be a mother and a dad..and its exhausting..especially now there getting older..my son worries about his SATS(exams for entry into high school), my daughter worries sooo much about fitting in with her other class mates..no matter how much i tell her that you dont have to try to be anything your not...Im not saying all this for sympathy..far from it..its just something i feel strongely about.

[Hell_bound]

... I dont think the government understand this...i couldnt bare to leave my children with a child minder...all day..missing out on all the things they were accomplishing without me there to see it all...

However in light of the british ecconomy..surely..making people get jobs..which arent even there...damn this will just make things worse in my opinion.

The only ones suffering in all this..are the children..true..that money makes the world go round..but all children need are the love and guidance of their parents, not the parents hardly even being there..and when they are..there tired and too stressed about money and work to even take the time to just be with them...


No truer words could be spoken as these...

/Hell_bound now ponders what was said and looks at the bigger picture, humanity, the world...

It's funny isn't that humans chase after objects that are not compatible with the flesh and emotions that make humans human...

Gold, oil, money (paper), or anything else...



True hunting is over.
No herds to follow.
Without game, men prey on each other.
The family weakens by the bites we swallow...

True leaders gone,
Of land and people.
We choose no kin but adopted strangers.
The family weakens by the length we travel...

All of us with wings...
All of us with wings...
All of us with wings!

Why can we not accept who we are, what we are - each other reflected in the mirror of ourselves as we stare into the eyes of another, especially those we hate?

Seek your fortune now, for tomorrow will be to late; and yet you will find it was all for not and this you can bet on...



I want you to remember
A love so full it could send us all ways
I want you to surrender
All my feelings rose today
And I want you to remain
The power of children can amaze
Ill try not to complain
I know thats a pisser baby

The chemicals between us
The walls that lie between us
Lying in this bed
The chemicals displaced
There is no lonlier state
Than lying in this bed

I want you to remember
Everything you said
Every driven word
Like a hammer, hell, to my head

The chemicals between us
The walls that lie between us
There is no lonlier place
Then lying in this bed
The chemicals displaced
There is no lonlier place
Than lying in this bed

The chemicals between us
The chemicals between us
Lying in this bed

Were of the hollow men
We are the naked ones
We never meant you harm
Never meant you wrong
Id like to thank
All of my lovers, lovers, lovers

The chemicals between us
The army of achievers
Lying in this bed
The chemicals displaced
There is no lonlier face
Than lying in this bed

The chemicals between us
The chemicals between us
The chemicals

The chemicals between us


~http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSaIGUxb0yQ
*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9T55V-FY6A


And so the ritual begins...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qXEyPLi1uU


Can you hear it now?
Hear it coming now?
Can you hear it now?

[Angel_de_Combate]

It's funny isn't that humans chase after objects that are not compatible with the flesh and emotions that make humans human...

Havent humans always chased after materials things...to have things of their own.. ?? Its so funny right now..id settle for serious answers to questions about life than a shit load of gold, oil or bloody paper.

Seek your fortune now, for tomorrow will be to late; and yet you will find it was all for not and this you can bet on...

Dont go all damn cryptic on me ! What fortune do you mean..monetary ? Why will tomorrow be too late ?? December 21st 2012...this date ring any bells.. ?Scared the shit out of my son when he saw all them damn clips about it on youtube..(cue me trying to explain why i dont think the world wont end and failing miserably)
Well if the world is really going to end sometime soon..bring it on !
So many thoughts running through my head..so many ideas...sometimes i wish my brain would shush for 5 mins..seriously.H_B you provoke tooooo many thoughts..

Okay..<deep breath> things are just about to get really hectic for me..in my life, i have so many things to take care of, loose ends to tie up :D Dont miss me too much, which im sure you really wont lol. Over and out amigos !

shite..missed this lol



Eye

I lie, I wait
I stop, I hesitate
I am, I breathe
I meant, I think of me

Is it any wonder I can't sleep?
All I have is all you gave to me
Is it any wonder I found peace through you?
Turn to the gates of heaven, to myself be damned
Turn away from light
It's not enough, just a touch
It's not enough

I taste, I love
I come, I bleed enough
I hate, I'm not
I was, I want too much

Is it any wonder I can't sleep?
All I have is all you gave to me
Is it any wonder I found peace through you?
Turn to the gates of heaven, to myself be damned
Turn away from light
It's not enough, just a touch
It's not enough, just a touch
It's not enough, just a touch
It's not enough, just a touch
It's not enough, just a touch
It's not enough, just a touch

[Kittypretty]

i never mix politics with web forums :huh:

[Flightcap]

Politics + Web forums = xD

Gasoline + Flamethrowers = xD

[Hell_bound]

Dont go all damn cryptic on me ! What fortune do you mean..monetary ? Why will tomorrow be too late ??

This was not a statement directed towards you, but the world in general which you are a part of...

If you look at my other posts you will see what I refer to here; and yes it has to do with paper, but more specific an individual currency and those that depend on it...


... So many thoughts running through my head..so many ideas...sometimes i wish my brain would shush for 5 mins..seriously.H_B you provoke tooooo many thoughts..

I have been told this a few times before... some enjoy such conversations and others it confuses or threatens them...


i never mix politics with web forums :huh:
Politics + Web forums = xD

Gasoline + Flamethrowers = xD

As you can see by how this discussion went, it really was less about politics...

However, I would like to make my final word on the man that people call Obama...

My Ode to Obama as seen through lyrics:



You, came at last, and your timing was impeccable your role had not been cast
And you, fit the mold, you were perfect in most every way a subject to behold
Now the news had broken through, and all of those stories grew
We wondered if you're capable of all they say you do...
You...
You...

Early photos by assortment, all of this made you important
We were given something new
Fantasies were bound by wire, fiction told by your desires
Story holes we fell into, but it's too late
Cause we're obsessed with you...

You, came at last, you gave a face to all the media that left us quite aghast
And you, filled a void, and your musings filled the broadcast air for all to be enjoyed
Soon we all were moving on
One last look and you were gone
Your future may hold many things, but all of us we're through, with you

You, came at last, and before you had a chance to speak your time already passed...

Bottom line appease the sponsors take a hold and sell the monster
Innocence we hardly knew
Stories to add fuel to fires, in the end they'll call you liar
But the truth is we're all glad for you

The great trepidation is about to come at last...

[Angel_de_Combate]

Hmmm i like having the last word...

I have been told this a few times before... some enjoy such conversations and others it confuses or threatens them...

Your ideas..thoughts..dont threaten me in the slightest, i enjoy them..i love asking questions..when i was a little girl it drove my mum nuts lol..good job we only converse in this forum H_B, because if it was RL..id drive you nuts too :P

Oh yeah i have a poem for you..i was going to make a separate thread..but ill post it here.



The philosopher

"Enough of thought, philosopher!
Too long hast thou been dreaming
Unlightened, in this chamber drear,
While summer's sun is beaming!
Space - sweeping soul, what sad refrain
Concludes thy musings once again?

"Oh, for the time when I shall sleep
Without identity,
And never care how rain may steep,
Or snow may cover me!
No promised heaven, these wild desires,
Could all, or half fulfil;
No threathened hell, with quenchless fires,
Subdue this quenchless will!"

"So said I, and still say the same;
Still, to my death, will say -
Three gods, within this little frame,
Are warring night and day;
Heaven could not hold them all, and yet
They all are held in me;
And must be mine till I forget
My present entity!
Oh, for the time, when in my breast
Their struggles will be o'er!
Oh, for the day, when I shall rest,
And never suffer more!"

"I saw a spirit, standing, man,
Where thou dost stand - an hour ago,
And round his feet three rivers ran,
Of equal depth, and equal flow -
"A golden stream - and one like blood;
And one like sapphire, seemed to be;
But, where they joined their triple flood
It tumbled in an inky sea.

The spirit sent his dazzling gaze
Down through that ocean's gloomy night
Then, kindling all, with sudden blaze,
The glad deep sparkled wide and bright -
White as the sun, far, far more fair
Than its divided sources were!"

"And even for that spirit, seer,
I've watched and sought my life - time long;
Sought him in heaven, hell, earth and air -
An endless search, and always wrong!
Had I but seen his glorious eye
Once light the clouds that wilder me,
I ne'er had raised this coward cry
To cease to think and cease to be;
I ne'er had called oblivion blest,
Nor, stretching eager hands to death,
Implored to change for senseless rest
This sentient soul, this living breath -
Oh, let me die - that power and will
Their cruel strife may close;
And conquered good, and conquering ill
Be lost in one repose!"

Emily Jane Brontë

It just seemed appropriate. Take care :banana:

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I was thinking about that just a minute ago. They look similar, but when you take into account that Obama and Bush have both the standard American phenotype in their bloodlines it's not so strange to think that.

The picture doesn't simbolize the previous statement, though. In my opinion, it's about what, sadly, is true about politicians: they look, speak and act all the same no matter their skin colour, party or religion.
then why would obama close what the previous opened?
http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-01-22-voa7.cfm

It's new times, I say give obama a chance, politicians have a way of speaking their way out of different situations, Obama can speak, but I think america will change with this guy as a president.

As for the picture, they don't really look alike, but when a picture morphing them like that has been seen, some might be fooled into thinking this.

However even if they do remember that you cannot tell anything from a person by looking at them, as he said in his speech, about ten years ago he would have a hard time getting a decent job in the area where he was now standing.

[Syd_Vicious]

With technology these days you can morph anyone to look/resemble almost anything, doesn't mean its true. I think the responses really just show those who make assumptions or changes previously held assumptions, those who defend their previous/current assumptions and those who remain objective.

Or if you are really just interested at what some ppl look like morphed together I like the following site as they blend, warp and fiddle with it and show you different results:

http://celebritymorphing.blip.tv/rss

[Xero_Aurion]

Ughhh...*feels like a zombie trying to take all this in*:rolleyes2:

*does a facepalm while thinking*

Okay in a nutshell...

Live your life the way you want it, don't make any decisions you're unaware about...if something happens then you'll obviously do something to change it. Until then keep living your life the way you'd like to. :P

The End.
End of Story
On to the next chapter! >.<

Pretty simple eh? Your life is what you <--- (biggest keyword ever) make it.

[Hell_bound]

... Pretty simple eh? Your life is what you <--- (biggest keyword ever) make it.

This is the biggest myth that was ever created and it was created to serve the captains industry and capitalism, especially so when we look at credit markets.

To prove that this ideas is false: just look at any group of people that have a minority status within a nation or state.

Also all societies have rules, one cannot break the rules and expect to be kept within society?

The truth is individually we are products of society, as long as you do as society tells you - you will find mobility, but you better hope that your skin color, your weight, your sex, your age and your sexuality all meet the criteria of those that would hold power over you. For if not you will be limited in your mobility.

[Llayne]

OMG! It's not the president that runs the show in the US! They're all the same because they are insignificant! And OMG THE SKY IS BLUE! Today is full of surprises!

Welcome to the world, have a seat, enjoy the killing.

It's people that think this way that allowed George W Bush to be elected. Tell all the people that have lost loved ones in his wars that it doesn't matter...

[Miraculix]

It's people that think this way that allowed George W Bush to be elected.

No, that's a different think. You're thinking of apathy. I'm talking about having a grip of reality.

You think things would be different if Al Gore was elected? Or any other Democratic tool? You think it was him (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/George_Dubya_Bush) that made the call on the mass murders US carried out during his presidency? Do I need to remind you on the mass murders Bill Clinton presided?

Hell, do you even think he was legitimately elected? Both times?

It's people who actually fall for this Douche & Turd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douche_and_turd) puppet show that get your monkeys elected.

[Llayne]

You think things would be different if Al Gore was elected?

Yes I do and you're a fool if you think otherwise.


Hell, do you even think he was legitimately elected? Both times?


No but enough people stayed home to get him close enough to grab it.

If we don't go out and vote and take a position of 'It doesn't matter anyways' we make it all too easy for the worst among us to grab power. It's what they want actually.

[Miraculix]

I'm not of the "Don't bother voting" mentality. Quite the opposite, I go to extreme lengths to vote (in my country you can only vote in the place you declare as your permanent residence, and I'm rarely there these last few years) and get others to vote.

But honestly, if I was living in the US, I don't know what I would do, seeing as anything that strays too much from the norm is quickly labeled as communist/terroristic or a threat to the "American way of life", and is quickly made illegal. The differences in the two big parties are barely fooling anyone. It's pretty much the same as in Europe with the two poles being Social-democrats and Conservatives (names may vary from country to country, agenda is the same). Only at least here we haven't started banning every other party yet.

Swapping power from one pole to the other is there only to calm the masses down, to give them a false hope of change after periods of extreme suppression. No real change will be made to society through these means, not in capitalism. But nice reasoning, "You're a fool if you disagree with me". No wonder you actually think Al Gore (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Al_gore) would make your country a better place.

[_dracus_]

I'm not of the "Don't bother voting" mentality. Quite the opposite, I go to extreme lengths to vote (in my country you can only vote in the place you declare as your permanent residence, and I'm rarely there these last few years) and get others to vote.

But honestly, if I was living in the US, I don't know what I would do, seeing as anything that strays too much from the norm is quickly labeled as communist/terroristic or a threat to the "American way of life", and is quickly made illegal. The differences in the two big parties are barely fooling anyone. It's pretty much the same as in Europe with the two poles being Social-democrats and Conservatives (names may vary from country to country, agenda is the same). Only at least here we haven't started banning every other party yet.

Swapping power from one pole to the other is there only to calm the masses down, to give them a false hope of change after periods of extreme suppression. No real change will be made to society through these means, not in capitalism. But nice reasoning, "You're a fool if you disagree with me". No wonder you actually think Al Gore (http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Al_gore) would make your country a better place.

All politicians are liars, they fool the people to get elected then they do shit. Really in France we had the right and the left wing to command our country for long years and the results are they are both bad. Maybe left wing did at least improve some things with death penalty removal (guillotine eurk ... :( ). On the economic side they do shit, I know economy is hard to forecast. Even in capitalist system French politician don't understand a single thing, I'm just disgust by what they are doing. The only thing is that both wing do shit but not the same way.

I'm pretty sure Al Gore wouldn't have done the same mistake than Bush, I'm not convince he would have attack Irak, but he would have done other mistakes :)

No gods, No masters!

[Angel_de_Combate]

I always voted for The Green Party(in england http://www.greenparty.org.uk/) and do they get elected in..do they shite, so i stopped voting, COS its all about bloody power. Why did i vote for the green party, because we all live on this planet, if keep p*ssing about with it the way we do..we will have no bloody planet, simple as. Thats why politics dont interest me..look how long its taken america to take some interest in saving the planet ffs ?? <note to self> That rant definitely certifies me as a hippy in a previous life

[Arafails]

Obama would usher in a new wind of change, I would ask you to look at this: http://i40.tinypic.com/11tqy52.jpg and then post your feelings on this matter.

The tie says it all.

Anyone who thinks any US president with usher a wind of change anywhere ever hasn't been paying attention. Wind of escalation perhaps (middle east anyone? Well I guess technically the US started that anyway. Or maybe it was the Romans).

[Angelwinged_Devil]

<note to self> That rant definitely certifies me as a hippy in a previous life
but hippies are cute nevertheless

[DuoMaxwell]

An opinion? How about that you're a douce for thinking that anyone that might look like someone would be like someone. Or that anyone tking up leadership of a country can be judged in the first month of getting the job.

As for those that hope for change, vote with yor dollar and ote with your brain, don't vote for someone just cause they're white or black, vot withthe one with the record of actually doing the things you want done and help them by not giving any money to companies that would do what you do not want.

For th record I voted for the green party, Cynthia McKinney for prez.

[DuoMaxwell]

I always voted for The Green Party(in england http://www.greenparty.org.uk/) and do they get elected in..do they shite, so i stopped voting, COS its all about bloody power. Why did i vote for the green party, because we all live on this planet, if keep p*ssing about with it the way we do..we will have no bloody planet, simple as. Thats why politics dont interest me..look how long its taken america to take some interest in saving the planet ffs ?? <note to self> That rant definitely certifies me as a hippy in a previous life

Then stfu, if you don't vote you have no say about anything that happens in your country, the apathy is what has caused your country to have become one of the worst surveillance states ever with no ability to defend yourselves from your government if push ever came to shove.

Theres only a few things you need to know when it comes to politics anyways, fear those that are fro religion, for the children, for prohibition and for gun control, these are the people with the ulterior motives that are the most likely to never practice what they preach.

Just look up the multitude of religious nuts that are anti gay yet are still homosexual, they're own self hatred is what has pushed them into the position they are in, its all because the can't control their own urges, so they must hide eveything from everyone to keep from tempting themselves, but it only makes ther urges that much worse.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Then stfu, if you don't vote you have no say about anything that happens in your country, the apathy is what has caused your country to have become one of the worst surveillance states ever with no ability to defend yourselves from your government if push ever came to shove.

Dont start on the hippy, cos like i said i dont give a f*ck ! Everyone has a right to an opinion and i expressed mine..so telling me to stfu is you trying to deny me that right lol

Theres only a few things you need to know when it comes to politics anyways, fear those that are fro religion, for the children, for prohibition and for gun control, these are the people with the ulterior motives that are the most likely to never practice what they preach.

Just look up the multitude of religious nuts that are anti gay yet are still homosexual, they're own self hatred is what has pushed them into the position they are in, its all because the can't control their own urges, so they must hide eveything from everyone to keep from tempting themselves, but it only makes ther urges that much worse.

Thats the point i dont want to know, the only time i get het up about politics(if you can call it that..cos its a joke really), is when it concerns myself. I get that the government is there to control the people, to mantain order..i couldnt wait for the first time that i was allowed to vote(i voted labour, tony blair got in), but since then i stopped...because i dont believe theres any power in the majority. The British elections compared to Americas are like a barn dance being put next to a Metallica concert..wait Metallica are cool..hmmm okay White snake concert then :)

[Angel_de_Combate]

but hippies are cute nevertheless

Hippies will take over the world one day, all hairy legged, pot smoking, mosh listening, "groovy" stating chicks!

:lol:

P.s @ awd : me is cute right ? :D

[DuoMaxwell]

Dont start on the hippy, cos like i said i dont give a f*ck ! Everyone has a right to an opinion and i expressed mine..so telling me to stfu is you trying to deny me that right lol


You failed to vote, you failed to have an opinion. One an doesn't change a thing, you have to participate in elections at all levels of government.

You think too highly of our elections, we're only slightly less fux0red then you are, we usually let the aussies copy you, then we try then the canucks follw suit...

For the record, I'm a pro green party, pro legalization of marijuana and cocain leaves, not cocain in drug form, pro guns, just not hand guns or other concealable weapons(I could care less though if you wanna walk down main street with an AK-47 on your shoulder and a full length katana on your hip, cause I can tell you have them) and pro breeder reactor(we need to stop the nuke scare so we can actually get rid of nuclear waste by reprocessing it and burning it down for power till theres nothing radioactive left in it, burying it under a mountain for 250k years and hoping nothing bad hapens isn't a solution) other then that I'm all for national health care, helping out developing nations, moving to green power such as wind, solar thermal and deep earth geothermal look to be the cleanest and cheapest options. Solar thermal is when you build a tower surronded by mirrors aimed at a central point, that poing is where you place a big pipe filled with liquid sodium, when its heated it can power a steam turbine, the same kind used at coal and nuke plants today to produce power for up to 3 days of overcast skies just fine. deep earth geothermal, drill a few deep ass holes in the ground far enough to where the ground is realy hot, pump in water and steam comes up the other holes, place steam turbine over the holes anf free juice 24/7. Only side efect is a slight increase in low level earthquakes at aroung class 3 at the highest, too low to be of any real concern, the places that have tried it have yet to see an increase in quakes that cause damage. Though the french tried it and pussed out due to idiots thinking france was going to fall into the med...

I go with the green party cause they're the most agreeable since I'm a hard mix to find...

[Angel_de_Combate]

You failed to vote, you failed to have an opinion. One an doesn't change a thing, you have to participate in elections at all levels of government.

WRONG !! I have an opinion..i just dont need to express it to the world for it to count for something.


You think too highly of our elections, we're only slightly less fux0red then you are, we usually let the aussies copy you, then we try then the canucks follw suit...

Nope again..i dont think highly of your elections at all..i think its a completely shite 80's rock band type affair, totally over the top..maybe this is my Britishness coming out here and for that i dont apologise.

For the record, I'm a pro green party, pro legalization of marijuana and cocain leaves, not cocain in drug form

Hmmm marjuana..i sit on the fence..simply because ive used the drug in the past and i know its good points and its bad.

pro guns, just not hand guns or other concealable weapons(I could care less though if you wanna walk down main street with an AK-47 on your shoulder and a full length katana on your hip, cause I can tell you have them)

Jesus christ, this is what my children should look forward..if you had your chance to rule the world eh ?

The rest of what you said was actually agreeable..(kinda)

I go with the green party cause they're the most agreeable since I'm a hard mix to find...

Nice to know you have such strong environmental feelings.. :note the sarcasm..

[Hell_bound]

DuoMaxwell you should learn to be humble, you may have an opinion but your opinion isn't worth any more then anyone's else unless you have substantial facts to backup your claims.

As to the topic at hand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INAGMSARPYw&eur

As stated by the congressman in the video:


Here's the facts. And we don't even talk about these things. On Thursday, at about 11:00 in the morning, the Federal Reserve noticed a tremendous drawdown of money market accounts in the United States to the tune of 550 Billion dollars was being drawn out in an hour or two. The treasury opened up its window to help. They pumped 105 billion dollars into the system and quickly realized that they could not stem the tide. We were having an electronic run on the banks. They decided to close down the money market accounts and announce a guarantee of $250,000 per account so there wouldn't be further panic.

If they had not done that, their estimation was that by 2:00 that afternoon, 5.5 Trillion dollars would have been drawn out of the money market system of the United States, would have collapsed the entire economy of the United States, and within 24 hours, the world economy would have collapsed. We talked at that time about what would have happened had that happened. It would have been the end of our economic system and our political system as we know it.

This happened last week, January 29th.

None really realize how close we really are...

[Xero_Aurion]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139

This video is rather informative...well I think that much...

Whether you choose to believe it is another story...that's all I'm going to say

[DuoMaxwell]

You've still failed to have an opinion and make yourself heard, you must vote at all levels of government and you must contact those people when something comes up that you don't agree with.

As for your children being less safe due to firearms, grow up nannystater, an armed populace is essential to a functioning government as it prevents things from becoming as completely one sided as it has in your country where the government can release the military hounds and put you back in your hole. Guns also don't cause an increase in crime rates, just look at Switzerland where its mandatory for every home to have least one functioning firearm.

Even Ghana, one of the greatest pacifists in history saw the value of a gun, he also knew that just because you have it doesn't mean you will use it, but its a great thing to have when you are threatened by an external force. Like all weapons, the best one you can have is the one you never have to use.

And before you think a bunch of yahoos with rifles can't hold back a well trained and equipped military force if they had to, take a look at history, over the last 50 years it's happened over and over again that exactly that has happened, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are just the most recent case where a bunch of yahoos have actually managed to hold back one of the most powerful military forces on the planet and managed to hold them back for years using asymmetrical warfare techniques. Sure they where up against all manner of tanks, planes, bombs and boats yet are still there and still putting up a fight after all this time. You don't have to be more powerful, you just have to grind them down, one side will back down eventually, thats just the way it works.

And I also stated that there is no reason to have a concealed weapon, since how often is it that someone commits a violent crime with a riffle of any sort? Compare that to how often a handgun is used for violent crimes, notice that the handguns far outnumber the cases involving rifles? All of this is due to the fact that the small hand gun can be hidden away and carried on your person anywhere without anyone knowing its there, so you end up taking it to situations that could easily escalate.

As for the drugs, legalize at the very least marijuana and guess what? You've undermined the drug cartels biggest cash cow and it's also the one that causes fewer health problems then legal drugs such as alcohol and tobacco. Legalize cocaine in leaf form and you're also supplying a mild stimulant which will again take a deep cut out of the drug cartels again.

Drugs themselves aren't always that bad, its the way they are produced in an unregulated manner using any manner of hazardous chemicals that get tossed into the mix for whatever reason that causes the majority of the health risks. You wouldn't smoke a cigarette that had been dipped in bleach, formaldehyde and antifreeze would you?

So are you going to have an opinion or are you still content to let yourself be rolled over at every level of your government through your own lethargy, apathy and ignorance?



As for you hell bound, I refuse to be humble, I know full well what happened with our economic collapse and I had been saying that the way it was going it had to collapse 4 years ago, the old bastard just took longer then I expected to finally come to a grinding halt.

Just so you know, its not over by a long shot, the idiots that keep thinking we'll be out of it by the end 2010 are in for a big surprise. After years of companies lobbying to get all regulation removed and letting complete greedball morons take the to posts in almost every large corporation in the "western" hemisphere the deck is stacked against the world economy, the leeches will bleed the world dry for as long as they can. What happened is an epidemic that is much bigger then any one nation as all of the economic powers of the world are in on the game.

Don't try to bring up anything about the "free market" either, it does not and has never has existed since it depends on a well educated populace to make informed decisions about what they buy and who they buy it from. The local monopolies such as telephone and electric companies don't help either.

So instead we're going to be stuck with capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich for a very long time to come.

[Angel_de_Combate]

You've still failed to have an opinion and make yourself heard, you must vote at all levels of government and you must contact those people when something comes up that you don't agree with.

I dont want to make myself heard..i havent come across anything where ive needed..wait once i did. I have no problem in standing up for myself..dont worry about that, but i only need to when necessary, which brings to my next point.

I dont believe in using extreme force. You want to carry a gun, thats fine, thats because in the U.S you have the right to bear arms..whoopie good for you. As for thinking my children are less safe..i do. Knife and gun crime is creeping up over here.. and really really hope to christ this doesnt mean that the police will eventually decide to carry guns at all times too, that day would be a sad..sad day indeed. The point is Mr..im a lover not a hater and ill never agree that everyone should have the right to carry a gun. Violence does not stop or prevent more violence, your just escalating it to a higher level.

As for your children being less safe due to firearms, grow up nannystater, an armed populace is essential to a functioning government as it prevents things from becoming as completely one sided as it has in your country where the government can release the military hounds and put you back in your hole.

First off..feck off. Second its your opinion that its essential. How is making everyone have a gun..essential to a functioning government ?? FFS

Guns also don't cause an increase in crime rates, just look at Switzerland where its mandatory for every home to have least one functioning firearm.

Good for them

Even Ghana, one of the greatest pacifists in history saw the value of a gun, he also knew that just because you have it doesn't mean you will use it, but its a great thing to have when you are threatened by an external force. Like all weapons, the best one you can have is the one you never have to use.

Guns have no value..other than there ability to end life.

And before you think a bunch of yahoos with rifles can't hold back a well trained and equipped military force if they had to, take a look at history, over the last 50 years it's happened over and over again that exactly that has happened, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are just the most recent case where a bunch of yahoos have actually managed to hold back one of the most powerful military forces on the planet and managed to hold them back for years using asymmetrical warfare techniques. Sure they where up against all manner of tanks, planes, bombs and boats yet are still there and still putting up a fight after all this time. You don't have to be more powerful, you just have to grind them down, one side will back down eventually, thats just the way it works.


The really want to go down this route..one of America's biggest mistakes in history..what good ever came from all that war...none...bloody none.

And I also stated that there is no reason to have a concealed weapon, since how often is it that someone commits a violent crime with a riffle of any sort? Compare that to how often a handgun is used for violent crimes, notice that the handguns far outnumber the cases involving rifles? All of this is due to the fact that the small hand gun can be hidden away and carried on your person anywhere without anyone knowing its there, so you end up taking it to situations that could easily escalate.

Are you listening to yourself here... Im not sure what you waffling about..are you saying everyone should have a rifle in their home or what ?? Make your point clearer please.

[Hell_bound]

They say the memories of an old man are the deeds done in his prime...


I did my time and I want out
So effusive - Fade - It doesn't cut
The soul is not so vibrant
The reckoning, The sickening
Packaging subversion
Pseudo-sacrosanct perversion
Go drill your deserts, go dig your graves
Then fill your mouth with all the money you will save
Sinking in, Getting smaller again
I'm done, It has begun I'm not the only one.

And the rain will kill us all
We throw ourselves against the wall
But no one else can see
The preservation of the martyr in me.

Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial

There are cracks in the road we laid
But where the temple fell
The secrets have gone mad
This is nothing new, but when we killed it all
The hate was all we had
Who needs another mess?
We could start over
Just look me in the eyes and say I'm wrong.
Now there's only emptiness
Venomous, insipid
I think we're done, I'm not the only one.

And the rain will kill us all
We throw ourselves against the wall
But no one else can see
The preservation of the martyr in me.

Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial
Psychosocial

The limits of the dead
The limits of the dead
The limits of the dead
The limits of the dead
The limits of the dead
The limits of the dead

Fake anti-fascist lie
I tried to tell you but
Your purple hearts are giving out
Can't stop a killing idea
If it's hunting season
Is this what you want?
I'm not the only one.

And the rain will kill us all
We throw ourselves against the wall
But no one else can see
The preservation of the martyr in me.

And the rain will kill us all
We throw ourselves against the wall
But no one else can see
The preservation of the martyr in me.

[Miraculix]

ew, their last album sucked major ass :p

[Flightcap]

Ok, here's my 2 cents on the issue, then I'm done.

My thoughts come mostly in the form of questions......

How does your (anti-gun folks) logic work out to the idea that guns are the problem? Have you forgotten the hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - of people that died violent deaths before gunpowder was ever discovered? Sadly, human nature is always bent towards destruction. Destroying our latest invention for destruction, sadly, will never solve that. The problem you are trying to address is correct - humans with evil intent are more dangerous with guns. The method you use to address it is not. Evil intent can be dangerous with a stick. If we ban guns, shouldn't we next ban sticks, rocks, and kitchen knives?

In short, banning guns is never going to remove the root problem - humanity's destructive nature - that brings evil intent to fruition. You're barking up the wrong tree.

[Angel_de_Combate]

I never said guns should be banned..i just said that giving everyone a gun, just isnt the answer. I totally agree with what you said..

humanity's destructive nature - that brings evil intent to fruition.

We are a destructive lot(well some of us are)..am i not allowed to say i dont like guns ? I never seen an actual gun in my life(as in right in front my eyes) and i hope that doesnt change in the future, this isnt so for some. I have two young children(9 and 11), whenever they ask me anything about life i tell them truth(sometimes times its simplified, but its still the truth nether the less), to be forwarned is to be forarmed this is what i offer my children.
Truth in words is a powerful..powerful thing, far more powerful than anything that can be weilded by man's hand.

[Xero_Aurion]

Truth in words is a powerful..powerful thing, far more powerful than anything that can be weilded by man's hand.

Heh...nicely said

[Angel_de_Combate]

Heh...nicely said

Thankyou very much. Nice sig you have there Xero :metal:

[Angel_de_Combate]

They say the memories of an old man are the deeds done in his prime...

Slipknot are crap, sorry :p

[DkySven]

Ok, here's my 2 cents on the issue, then I'm done.

My thoughts come mostly in the form of questions......

How does your (anti-gun folks) logic work out to the idea that guns are the problem? Have you forgotten the hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - of people that died violent deaths before gunpowder was ever discovered? Sadly, human nature is always bent towards destruction. Destroying our latest invention for destruction, sadly, will never solve that. The problem you are trying to address is correct - humans with evil intent are more dangerous with guns. The method you use to address it is not. Evil intent can be dangerous with a stick. If we ban guns, shouldn't we next ban sticks, rocks, and kitchen knives?

In short, banning guns is never going to remove the root problem - humanity's destructive nature - that brings evil intent to fruition. You're barking up the wrong tree.
Then explain me why there are more shooting accidents at American schools etc. than in Europe if it isn't because of how easy(compared with Europa) guns are available in America.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Then explain me why there are more shooting accidents at American schools etc. than in Europe if it isn't because of how easy(compared with Europa) guns are available in America.

Bingo !!! :biggrin:

[Xero_Aurion]

Finally someone's got it! And people wonder why I say something like this?

Pretty simple eh? Your life is what you <--- (biggest keyword ever) make it.

Meaning that the decisions made and the actions acted upon do have an affect on your outcome in life. Just think about it for a quick second...it's not too hard to figure out eh?

I love when I get ignored xD

By the way I ask that any adult on here who is willing and wants to learn...please watch the video I posted a while ago on here...just so you know it is about 2 hours long. So if you choose to watch it then make sure you have the spare time.

[DuoMaxwell]

Ok, here's my 2 cents on the issue, then I'm done.

My thoughts come mostly in the form of questions......

How does your (anti-gun folks) logic work out to the idea that guns are the problem? Have you forgotten the hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - of people that died violent deaths before gunpowder was ever discovered? Sadly, human nature is always bent towards destruction. Destroying our latest invention for destruction, sadly, will never solve that. The problem you are trying to address is correct - humans with evil intent are more dangerous with guns. The method you use to address it is not. Evil intent can be dangerous with a stick. If we ban guns, shouldn't we next ban sticks, rocks, and kitchen knives?

In short, banning guns is never going to remove the root problem - humanity's destructive nature - that brings evil intent to fruition. You're barking up the wrong tree.


And we have a winner!

You have to fix the problem, not treat the symptoms. The only way to stop violence is to change human nature, which is impossible. So you have to take the next logical step, and remove incentive for violence. Probably the best ways to do this are to improve education and public services as well as remove laws on things that deal with morality and vice as they are for things that aren't damaging to society, but the laws themselves create many problems with society.

Want to make an actual dent in the sexually transmitted disease infection rate? legalize prostitution, just have oversight of it requiring valid papers showing that the hookers are disease free.

Want to make a dent in gangs? As I said before, legalize the drugs that have no adverse health effects and treat them as you would alcohol and tobacco. you gain allot more money in the stare coffers from the taxes and you remove the gang's major money maker as well as remove them from becoming "gateway" drugs, since the only way I've ever seen something like marijuana become a lead in to other drugs is wen it's been laced with an actually addictive drug.

You wanna stop wars with other countries over resources? Get on completely renewable energy, water and food production and remove allot of the patents and copyrights that are holding back technological progress in our country to allow new businesses to start up and create more jobs.

Think prevention, not prohibition, as we can see how the prohibition of alcohol, sex, marijuana and every other drug has made us so much safer and has reduced crime.

But I guess we can forgive you, you have given no say in your countries future, and your apathy has allowed them to become everything that George Orwell warned us about and so much worse. Just remember, god save the queen.

Hell, stop tacking bad songs into topics, its a political discussion, if you're getting political advice from music you should put down the crack pipe. Besides, slipknot has only had like 3 good songs, and thats not one of them. It's like Mushroomead, as far as I've seen they only have 2 good tracks, their best is one where they have Jens Kidman of Meshuggah, the epic math metal band doing guest vocals and teaching them how to not suck in the track "The Dream Is Over" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMCtZXxozTM (sorry for the fail amv, but its the only decent sounding copy on youtube...) The other track is their more hard rock sound which they did well with in "Sun Doesn't Rise" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOzovX_3XhE but you can see that they're still trying to hard in their videos...

[Angel_de_Combate]

Meaning that the decisions made and the actions acted upon do have an affect on your outcome in life. Just think about it for a quick second...it's not too hard to figure out eh?

Also knowing when youve made a mistake is a good point too.

I love when I get ignored xD

You werent ignored :)

By the way I ask that any adult on here who is willing and wants to learn...please watch the video I posted a while ago on here...just so you know it is about 2 hours long. So if you choose to watch it then make sure you have the spare time.

Ill watch it when i have chance, i did see the first 10 mins though and it looks very interesting :)

[Angel_de_Combate]

You have to fix the problem, not treat the symptoms. The only way to stop violence is to change human nature, which is impossible. So you have to take the next logical step, and remove incentive for violence. Probably the best ways to do this are to improve education and public services as well as remove laws on things that deal with morality and vice as they are for things that aren't damaging to society, but the laws themselves create many problems with society.

No just dont give out guns to the general public, they should only go to the people who need them, the police force and the military. As for laws, they are essential to make society run smoothly, without them we'd have chaos.

Want to make an actual dent in the sexually transmitted disease infection rate? legalize prostitution, just have oversight of it requiring valid papers showing that the hookers are disease free.

Are you off your rocker !!! How will making prostitution legal solve this..let me ask you this wont most men and woman (as male prostitution does exist too) want to lose their virginity too(and still have sex with) someone they love or know even ? Someone their actually attracted to even ?? Sexually transmitted diseases need to be tackled with the on going promotion of safe sex..using a condom, sleeping with people that you have known longer than one night..not legalising prostitution ffs. The only people that would benefit from this would be the prostitutes, they'd be able to ply there trade legally, thats it.


Want to make a dent in gangs? As I said before, legalize the drugs that have no adverse health effects and treat them as you would alcohol and tobacco. you gain allot more money in the stare coffers from the taxes and you remove the gang's major money maker as well as remove them from becoming "gateway" drugs, since the only way I've ever seen something like marijuana become a lead in to other drugs is wen it's been laced with an actually addictive drug.

All drugs have adverse side affects, check your aspirin bottle ! If you were to legalise..say heroin..you would be lowering the crime rate..as most heroin users steal to fund there expensive habit. You'd never get rid of the black market that say sell counterfeit dvds, clothes, bags, trainers which the proceeds go to buy more drugs.

You wanna stop wars with other countries over resources? Get on completely renewable energy, water and food production and remove allot of the patents and copyrights that are holding back technological progress in our country to allow new businesses to start up and create more jobs.

This is agree with..we need make a big push with renewable energy sources, oil and gas should have been ditched bloody years and years ago.

Think prevention, not prohibition, as we can see how the prohibition of alcohol, sex, marijuana and every other drug has made us so much safer and has reduced crime.

Prohibition doesnt work..as it generally goes ignored.

But I guess we can forgive you, you have given no say in your countries future, and your apathy has allowed them to become everything that George Orwell warned us about and so much worse. Just remember, god save the queen.

I dont need your forgiveness, i give say when i need to give say and thats the end of it..i dont need to vote to achieve anything. Everyone has the right to vote and i choose not to. When people finally realise that saving the planet is more important that damn politics, then ill vote and maybe people will vote with me, but i doubt it.

[ncvr]

No just dont give out guns to the general public, they should only go to the people who need them, the police force and the military. As for laws, they are essential to make society run smoothly, without them we'd have chaos.
If people want guns, they will have guns.

[Angel_de_Combate]

If people want guns, they will have guns.

Very true, but very sad. Ah to fight a war with words rather than bullets.....

[DkySven]

If people want guns, they will have guns.
But they will be much harder to get.

Here in the Netherlands softdrugs and prostitution are legal and it's found out with tests by mayors who got fed up by coffeeshops that when drugs is made illegal crime rates rise. When you allow things to some extent they are much easier to control. If you want a gun you can't just get a license, but you need to have a good reason. Again, it is proved by statistics that in countries where guns are allowed that there are more shooting accidents.

[DuoMaxwell]

No just dont give out guns to the general public, they should only go to the people who need them, the police force and the military. As for laws, they are essential to make society run smoothly, without them we'd have chaos.



Are you off your rocker !!! How will making prostitution legal solve this..let me ask you this wont most men and woman (as male prostitution does exist too) want to lose their virginity too(and still have sex with) someone they love or know even ? Someone their actually attracted to even ?? Sexually transmitted diseases need to be tackled with the on going promotion of safe sex..using a condom, sleeping with people that you have known longer than one night..not legalising prostitution ffs. The only people that would benefit from this would be the prostitutes, they'd be able to ply there trade legally, thats it.




All drugs have adverse side affects, check your aspirin bottle ! If you were to legalise..say heroin..you would be lowering the crime rate..as most heroin users steal to fund there expensive habit. You'd never get rid of the black market that say sell counterfeit dvds, clothes, bags, trainers which the proceeds go to buy more drugs.

You wanna stop wars with other countries over resources? Get on completely renewable energy, water and food production and remove allot of the patents and copyrights that are holding back technological progress in our country to allow new businesses to start up and create more jobs.

This is agree with..we need make a big push with renewable energy sources, oil and gas should have been ditched bloody years and years ago.



Prohibition doesnt work..as it generally goes ignored.



I dont need your forgiveness, i give say when i need to give say and thats the end of it..i dont need to vote to achieve anything. Everyone has the right to vote and i choose not to. When people finally realise that saving the planet is more important that damn politics, then ill vote and maybe people will vote with me, but i doubt it.

Do I have to teach you everything? What do you do when the police or military become your own enemy? It has happened in several countries where a fascist dictator has come to power, they always ban the public from owning weapons, this leaves them with no ability to defend themselves in the unlikely event they have to. As before, its not the gun that commits the crime, it's the guy pulling the trigger. Remember, everyone has the human right to defend themselves, they should also have the education and the means to do so.

As for prostitution, where did I say fix the STD problem? I said make a dent in infection rates. Right now any John looking to get his knob slobbed is hoping his ass off that the girl he picks up on the corner of 21st and center doesn't have any form of slow and painful death and that his condom holds out. By implementing what the type of system they have in Las Vegas about prostitution to ensure the hooker is disease free. On top of this you can generate more money to help research a cure for these diseases by putting a tax on it and having said tax money go toward a public lab for this that is forced to make all of their work public domain, unlike the bastards at the big pharma companies that currently hold people hostage with patented drugs that they make for a penny a pill but sell for $200 a bottle. If the treatment drugs are public domain any company with the means can make the pills, which forces the price down.

Lets not forget Education in this as well, Some of that money can also be use for sex ed, yes it should be mandatory and no, you should never prance around the subject or any subject for that matter. No, abstinence only doesn't work, just take a look at africa where the dumbass missionaries have been telling people not to have sex and not to use contraceptives when they do. It's lead to pretty much the largest outbreak of HIV anywhere and a massive public denial of the problem.

On top of this it might more then likely make some impact on human trafficking if proper oversight where in place to make sure that everyone involved was a legal citizen.

As for drugs having adverse effects, sue all do, but some are far worse then others. Ever seen how widespread the chewing of cocaine leaves is in south and central america? it's their version of the 3 cups a day of coffee. Yet they never overdose and none of them have ever looked like completely tweaked out crackheads. Why? Simple. The processed drug cocaine is mixed with all manner of toxic chemicals after it's been concentrated and distilled.

As for marijuana, every study on it has shown it to be healthier then smoking tobacco, as in no tar and that THC is nowhere near as addictive as nicotine.

You wanna talk about legal heroin? It exists, Morphine and Codeine are both legal versions of heroin, purified and untainted. It;s not that they work as a pain killer, they just get you high enough that you don't care anymore, the problem is that they are highly addictive and in high doses, lethal. The drugs I'm suggestion should be legalized are the ones that don't seem to cause any real problems to health and what little you do get from them is not all that different then what you could get from existing means. Bu in the case of marijuana its also the major cash cow of the drug trade, legalize it and you remove most gangs largest source of income.

Like it or not, most people picked up for marijuana are completely nonviolent offenders, more often then not they also don't do anything else illegal in their life, yet they get harsher penalties then most violent criminals and when imprisoned they are placed in with the real monsters and murderers. You don't think that f they weren't a criminal in any other capacity before they went in that aren't going to come out 10 years later now equipped with plenty of newly acquired criminal know how and the attitude toward life that will allow them to use it? Don't be so naive. Gangs are major employers, they're looking for anyone that is desperate for cash and is willing to take any type of work, and with the current public ridicule and shunning even minor offenders get outside of prison it' pretty much as if they never left prison. For many, the only place they have to turn to is to crime.

But who created the criminal? The kid getting caught smoking a blunt after class, or the judge that decided to make an example of him and toss him into the den of lions for 15 years? Remember, fix the problem, not the symptom.

Prohibition doesn't work, not because it's ignored, but because it allows for criminal smuggling and production to move in to fill the void that was once filled by legal means. Don't believe me? Just look at what happened to america and the small street gangs that turned into alcohol smugglers, they became some of the most powerful and feared people on the planet because they now had a massive influx of cash from the alcohol smuggling. The mafias. While the old mafias crumbled a bit after the age of prohibition they soon jumped on the illegal drug trade once it started to pick up steam in the late 1960's, leading us to the problems we have today where billions are made each year off of selling toxic drugs mixed purely to get you as addicted as possible.

I see that even after our little chat in game that you still have trouble seeing the big picture, and that what you keep going after are symptoms of a larger problem. Fix the big problem, by doing it right you make all involved happy save for the few religious nut jobs off in the corner that will froth like Jack Thompson at a Grand Theft Auto release party. But nobody should be paying attention to them anyways, if you actually paid attention to them for more then 5 minutes you'd quickly be looking for a phone to call the psyche ward and have them committed.

Its like I pointed out earlier with idiots and power generation. You've got anti nuke retards that prevent us from building breeders and new fission reactors so that instead of using 40+ year old reactors that where supposed to be decommissioned by now and reprocessing their waste through the breeder and back into the fission reactors till theres nothing left of it that is radioactive we're trying to burry it under mountains for a few hundred thousand years and hoping nothing bad will ever happen.

The twits that keep bringing up solar photovoltaic are equally dumb, sure we have enough sun, sure you can get panels that work in Oslo, but they have 4 things going against them, 1 expensive as all hell for the power you get, 2, don't produce enough power for the area required, 3, they use expensive, hard to find rare earth materials like indium and 4, they're still pretty fragile.

Is there still a way to use the sun for power? of course, as before, solar thermal, uses cheap, existing tech thats long proven it's capable of the job.

Where does solar photovoltaic actually make sense? Possibly in a way like Konarka and I think one other company has figured out, ultra thin, any color photovoltaic sheets, you could use them to cover the outside of a laptop or as the paint job of a car, they've shown they can be tinted almost any color and only lose a small amount of power generation capacity. But last I checked Konarka was looking for military contracts trying to sell their photovoltaic film as tents to the US military.

So what way do you plan to wiggle out of this? Got anything you wanna throw into the pot? I'm more then capable of picking through any argument and I'm quite enjoying myself. So far you've continually described symptoms of larger problems, fixing the real problems fixes all of the symptoms as well.

[DuoMaxwell]

But they will be much harder to get.
Again, it is proved by statistics that in countries where guns are allowed that there are more shooting accidents.


All true stuff, but as for that line I have 2 words. Darwin. Awards.

It's always good that the ones dumb enough to look down the barrel of their gun without checking to see if it's loaded manage to off themselves, hopefully before they get a chance to breed... As I've told many people, we need to remove some of the laws that save the really stupid people from themselves.

I.E. it should remain mandatory that all cars have working seat belts, but it should not be mandatory that you should have to wear one.

[DkySven]

All true stuff, but as for that line I have 2 words. Darwin. Awards.

It's always good that the ones dumb enough to look down the barrel of their gun without checking to see if it's loaded manage to off themselves, hopefully before they get a chance to breed... As I've told many people, we need to remove some of the laws that save the really stupid people from themselves.

I.E. it should remain mandatory that all cars have working seat belts, but it should not be mandatory that you should have to wear one.
I think I used the wrong word. I meant some crazy guy running around with a gun and shooting other people.

[Angel_de_Combate]

I.E. it should remain mandatory that all cars have working seat belts, but it should not be mandatory that you should have to wear one.

Its against the law over here..to not wear a seat belt.

[Torin_Ironfist]

Same here, they even invented a catchy phrase "click it or ticket"

[DuoMaxwell]

ASD, if some crazy guy decides to flip out an go on a murder spree he'll do it with whatever he has handy. Just look at how many serial killers haven't used guns. Where they any more or less dangers? No, not really, if they wanted you dead they where going to kill you pretty much by any means necessary.

It is still after all a crazy killer guy instead of a gun acting of it's own accord shooting filthy humans all on it's own to save gun kind from the homo sapien menace.

[ncvr]

I think I used the wrong word. I meant some crazy guy running around with a gun and shooting other people.
Someone driving into a big crowd with a giant SUV would kill just as many, even faster, and be able to avoid being caught much easier.

Doesn't mean we should ban those too.

[Torin_Ironfist]

Someone driving into a big crowd with a giant SUV would kill just as many, even faster, and be able to avoid being caught much easier.

Doesn't mean we should ban those too.
Sure it does! Ban everything that could be used as a weapon!

[DkySven]

Then again, how can it be that there are no attacks with SUVs at schools in Europe and the USA, but that there are a lot of people with guns going mad at schools in USA(more than in Europe)?

[ncvr]

In schools, people are generally very well spread out, so it's harder to kill a lot of people there with an SUV compared to a gun than a lot of people getting out of a movie or something.

But if people can't use guns to kill, they'll just find something else. They could make a bomb out of some chemicals (which aren't so hard to get), for example.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Then again, how can it be that there are no attacks with SUVs at schools in Europe and the USA, but that there are a lot of people with guns going mad at schools in USA(more than in Europe)?

I think what youve been trying to say is..theres a connection with the ease of being able to obtain a gun in the U.S (compared to Europe) and how gun crime is way more prevalant(also compared to Europe). Thats not to say we dont have gun crime over here, weve also had quite alot of awful knife crime too. There are always going to be nutjobs in the world looking for more interesting ways to kill fellow humans, rather than just shooting them, but said nutjobs will mostly always pick a gun for ease(i guess), rather than another way.
However my argument with the availability of guns is this, In England our gun crime is low because it is not easy to get a gun and because i believe as our police force isnt armed(we have a armed response unit instead)we dont feel we need to get a gun, to obtain "one upmanship" so to speak. I dont mean to offend any americans, but i think the British have more respect for their Police force. Our police force use restraint practices to hold and control suspects, they dont need to point a gun at them.

What can i say i just dont like guns and the day that the British Police have them on their holster, is the day i bugger off and become a hermit :superpusso:

[Angel_de_Combate]

Do I have to teach you everything?

I think i can learn quite well on my own, thankyou.

Hmmmmm look..sexuallly transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancy(an equally prevalent issue) will only be reduced through education of children..my son who's(now) 11 now knows about puberty, thanks to his school's sexual education policy and me of course. My daughter who's 9 asked me other night about how babies are made..now did i tell that a stork drops them off ??..or the old favourite(i mean look at the bible) that you just wake up one morning and your just pregnant ??.. No...i told her the truth. Why ? Every child has a right to know what the world is like in my opinion. Now im not talking about educating young children about sex..like 1-8..but after this age i think its totally acceptable.

It's lead to pretty much the largest outbreak of HIV anywhere and a massive public denial of the problem.

I might be speaking out of turn here, but i thought alot of the HIV epidemic was spread through infected men raping alot of women..

Ever seen how widespread the chewing of cocaine leaves is in south and central america?

Nope i havent.

As for marijuana, every study on it has shown it to be healthier then smoking tobacco, as in no tar and that THC is nowhere near as addictive as nicotine.

How do you explain the people who end up with medical conditions like paranoid schizrophenia..
I watched a program about marijuana and the doctors who were studying its effects..and how that if you take the drug as an adolescent it can effect your mental health far more than if your 18 and above.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00hhmd1/Horizon_20082009_Cannabis_The_Evil_Weed/

Have a look for yourself, its interesting to watch..specially where they explain that..humans have a kind of biology bond with cannabis.


You wanna talk about legal heroin? It exists, Morphine and Codeine are both legal versions of heroin, purified and untainted. It;s not that they work as a pain killer, they just get you high enough that you don't care anymore, the problem is that they are highly addictive and in high doses, lethal. The drugs I'm suggestion should be legalized are the ones that don't seem to cause any real problems to health and what little you do get from them is not all that different then what you could get from existing means.

This would decrease crime for sure.

Bu in the case of marijuana its also the major cash cow of the drug trade, legalize it and you remove most gangs largest source of income.

Isnt that a good thing ?



Like it or not, most people picked up for marijuana are completely nonviolent offenders, more often then not they also don't do anything else illegal in their life, yet they get harsher penalties then most violent criminals and when imprisoned they are placed in with the real monsters and murderers. You don't think that f they weren't a criminal in any other capacity before they went in that aren't going to come out 10 years later now equipped with plenty of newly acquired criminal know how and the attitude toward life that will allow them to use it? Don't be so naive. Gangs are major employers, they're looking for anyone that is desperate for cash and is willing to take any type of work, and with the current public ridicule and shunning even minor offenders get outside of prison it' pretty much as if they never left prison. For many, the only place they have to turn to is to crime.

I agree here too, a member of my family has been in and out of prison for a good 6 years of his life...guess what drug he started taking first ? Cannabis...for some people its a gateway drug..to other more dangerous and more addictive drugs, as it was for him.

example of him and toss him into the den of lions for 15 years? Remember, fix the problem, not the symptom.

15 years !! Over here its like from 2-5 years.

Prohibition doesn't work, not because it's ignored, but because it allows for criminal smuggling and production to move in to fill the void that was once filled by legal means. Don't believe me? Just look at what happened to america and the small street gangs that turned into alcohol smugglers, they became some of the most powerful and feared people on the planet because they now had a massive influx of cash from the alcohol smuggling. The mafias. While the old mafias crumbled a bit after the age of prohibition they soon jumped on the illegal drug trade once it started to pick up steam in the late 1960's, leading us to the problems we have today where billions are made each year off of selling toxic drugs mixed purely to get you as addicted as possible.

Point noted.

I see that even after our little chat in game that you still have trouble seeing the big picture, and that what you keep going after are symptoms of a larger problem.

"Our little chat", wasnt really that productive then was it. Maybe i have trouble seeing the "big picture" because like ive said a million times..selfishly i focus on my own life. Im no a politician..im not some hippy trailblazer..hoping to save the world some day..no im a gardener.. a single parent with two children, struggling to make my own way in world. I understand these issues that effect other people..but all in all..i can do nothing. In order to tackle these issues you something i really dont have..which is people power.


So what way do you plan to wiggle out of this? Got anything you wanna throw into the pot? I'm more then capable of picking through any argument and I'm quite enjoying myself.

Ive tried to counterpoint what youve said and yes im very aware that you love the verbal debates.

So far you've continually described symptoms of larger problems, fixing the real problems fixes all of the symptoms as well.

So you go fix them all then...i wish the best of luck.