The world through my eyes...

[Hell_bound]

Have you ever questioned the reality that you were taught to believe?
Have you ever seen how a tree grows from year to year, and when you cut it down did you take the time to count its rings?
Did you ever believe in something that others thought made you seem a little less then normal?
What is reality?
What does it mean to be a human?
And when does a human know when its collective self, that which is called society or humanity, is doing more harm then good?




the surface is transparent
stranger here in me
filter through like sun
future, i am past
though your hunger feels the same
i am wanting, give me breath
i am truth you can't explain
i am treasure, i am dust
i am water, i am rain

i am tempted here
i am the hunter, i am the prey
though you're ten thousand years
every moment remains
i am future, i am past
i am haunted, i am blessed
and i'm filtered through like sun
until the moment comes undone
i am hunter, i am prey
i am water, i am rain
some light, some rain flows through me
some light, some rain flows through me

i am tempted here
i am the hunter, i am the prey
though your ten thousand years
every moment remains

lies, the night conscious one
i am earth, i am water, i am ground
i am wanting, give me breath
it's all transparent
i am the stranger here
it's all transparent
just the same as fiction
and the truth you can't explain
though your hunger feels the same
i am wanting give me
some light, some rain flows through me
some light, some rain flows through me

i am tempted in here
i am the hunter, i am the prey
though those ten thousand years
every moment goes astray
give me breath


Earth she is the mother of us all.
Yet man betrays it all...
His dark deeds have yet to come to pass,
But when they do the whole system will collapse...




Silent weapons for a quiet war...
Under my skin, getting under my skin
all systems go
security clause
passing of laws
reality
silence, in the air
silence, in the air
acceptance
information from birth
animals are first
then man

Silent weapons for a quiet war...
ID
Not free
for me
you can't escape
implant
implant to the next step
you don't want to protect
you just want to fucking control

Know my DNA, know my DNA
my structure
know the movement of my day
know the movement of my day and haunts
Hypnotise
Hypnotise
Acclimatise
fingers in control, fingers in control

Silent weapons for a quiet war...
ID
Not free
for me
you can't escape
implant
everything is under control

Deep below the ground
Deep below the ground
Blasphemies
Deep below the ground
Deep below the ground
Hypnotise
Hypnotise
Acclimatise
Hypnotise
Hypnotise
Acclimatise

Silent weapons for a quiet war...
ID
Not free
for me
you can't escape
implant
Tear up your ID cards
and stick your implant up your ass
you just want to fucking control


The subtleties of our environment blinds us to what the reality is.
Without questioning, one can never come to be and the truth of reality can never come within grasp.

Sit in the dark, undisturbed by your environment and contemplate upon your actions, the actions of people you know, the actions of corporations, banks and governments...
Feel their moves, and dissolve into their actions - while there expand your scope of vision to include groups of people, nations and mother earth...

The singularity that you call the self is now meaningless within such an elusive matrix of vision and thought.
But the question remains: Can you feel it?




What's so hard to understand?
Which part did you not get?
What exactly floats your boat?
Who do you abet?

Clinging to the status quo
Dispute state of affairs
Instead of ringing in the change
Content with splitting hairs

Better die on your feet than live on your knees
In the absence of justice there will be no peace

Spit or swallow
Pretend or commit
Lead or follow
Ideal or unfit
Spit or swallow
Palace or pit
Legionnaire or
Hypocrite

Hide behind your pious words
Lament your desperate state
Do you believe in action
Or play victim to your fate?

Spit or swallow
Deny or admit
Lead or follow
Arise or quit
Spit or swallow
Rebel or submit
Try or die trying
Swallow or spit

War is the rich man's terrorism
Terrorism is the poor man's war

What am I supposed to make
Of people like you?
What you say is not enough
It's what you do

Cowardly bewailing
Too frightened to stand tall
Play the hand you have been dealt
You've got no balls at all

Drown in your blood
Or live in your shit


The threat of chaos it will envelop you...
Envisioned from a trance, truth though not like the reality that is being shoveled to you...
Resist the temptation to feed, to gorge on hollow substance...
For there is no truth in rotting meat!




For centuries and centuries
I walked along their battlefields
Rotten flesh and burned soil
Is all what they have left

A strange desire for destruction
Can be felt at all these places
An awful waste of resources
All for their killing machinery

A world all made of battlefields
A world all drowned in blood
A world which will not last forever
Is all that we have got

A world all made of battlefields
A world all built for wars
And now we take the battlefields
Far out to the stars

They get better year by year
With a frightening efficiency
Killing thousands in one strike
By pushing just one button

So I have been everywhere
From the jungle to the mountain
And even in the deepest sea
I saw the signs of a past war

A world all made of battlefields
A world all drowned in blood
A world which will not last forever
Is all that we have got

A world all made of battlefields
A world all built for wars
And now we take the battlefields
Far out to the stars


Is this the fate of humanity?
The epoch we live in is slowly coming to an end (the death of capitalism)...
How will we close the door, and what lies behind the other that we open?
Remember, the end is never too far away.



Too eager to appease
The cure is the disease
And it's only growing worse

Day by day it takes its hold
Divides its cells a thousandfold
And makes your blindness seem perverse

Out of sight and out of mind
Are deadly traits when they're combined
But it's easier that way

Sit and watch the world go by
While all the problems multiply
With nothing left to do but pray

I am the rain
Falling down to cover you
Wish me away
But I'm here for your own good
I am the storm
Sent to wake you from your dream
Show me your scorn
But you'll thank me in the end

These amenities are nice
But there is need for sacrifice
You must lose so you may gain

It's too easy to malign
The implements that steal our time
But it's we who are to blame

Fill your pockets while you can
And try to keep the upper hand
The voice of reason sounds so shrill

Surround yourself with all you own
Work your fingers to the bone
And happiness evades you still

I am the rain
Falling down to cover you
Wish me away
But I'm here for your own good
I am the storm
Sent to wake you from your dream
Show me your scorn
But you'll thank me in the end

Too eager to appease
You've lost the forest for the trees
And it really is a shame

It is such a sorry sight
When you evaluate your life
You've only got yourself to blame

I am the rain
Falling down to cover you
Wish me away
But I'm here for your own good
I am the storm
Sent to wake you from your dream
Show me your scorn
But you'll thank me in the end


"... time is a piece of wax falling on a termite that's choking on the splinters" - beck

[Angel_de_Combate]

Have you ever questioned the reality that you were taught to believe?

Yeps

Have you ever seen how a tree grows from year to year, and when you cut it down did you take the time to count its rings?

Yeps

Did you ever believe in something that others thought made you seem a little less then normal?

Yeps

What is reality?

The world as only we can perceive it.

What does it mean to be a human?

Humanity is to love and to hate, to experience delirious happiness and desperate loneliness. Good and bad(or evil if you prefer) are like two long-standing lovers, intrinsically bound to fight for a place in this world, they go hand in hand, we cant have one without the other, for every act of goodness it is counteracted with a act of badness(evilness). As a human we walk the knife edge that separates the two with a certain amount of blind faith, hoping that were making the right choices and taking the right path in life.

And when does a human know when its collective self, that which is called society or humanity, is doing more harm then good?

The collective self has no idea until a solitary figure steps forward and points out the harm, eventually this is passed on to collective and as some will take head, most wont listen as "ignorance is bliss..."



The subtleties of our environment blinds us to what the reality is.
Without questioning, one can never come to be and the truth of reality can never come within grasp.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Socrates



Is this the fate of humanity?

Thats the glory of fate, its out of our hands.

[backe]

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8899/11637752.jpg

[Mattdoesrock]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6720/facepalmy.jpg

[-Edge-]

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6720/facepalmy.jpg
HAHA I see Zelda from the CD-I there \o/

Life is whatever we want it to be, you create you're own false world from nothing, just like most philosophical concepts that argue about nothing over nothing. You live in an illusion of an illusion mah boi

[_dracus_]

Have Hell Bound even played regnum once ?

Does he have the rights to copy entire song Lyrics (probably copyrighted) here ?

[Angel_de_Combate]

Have Hell Bound even played regnum once ?

Yes he has :p

[Xero_Aurion]

I actually love these types of discussions...such open-mindedness and yet so many possibilities. It's endless! Quite intriguing really, to think beyond the so-called "human limits of the mind."

"Have you ever questioned the reality that you were taught to believe?"

All the time. I find it always changing whether we are aware of it or not. Up to the point to where I find myself even thinking "Is this even considered reality?" Yet...to wonder if we can even go beyond this "reality" is something interesting...well I believe anything is possible when the mind perceives it.

"Have you ever seen how a tree grows from year to year, and when you cut it down did you take the time to count its rings?"

Yes and might I add that it's rather relaxing to count them and then think how it is to simply experience nature's changes without such "worries" and "concerns" our so called "reality" gives us.

"Did you ever believe in something that others thought made you seem a little less then normal?"

Yes. Mind you I believe that we all go through that one way or another.

"What is reality?"

There is no definitive answer to this entirely. Yet that doesn't mean we cannot try to come up with a reasonable "possibility" so to speak. Anyways, Skatz made a great comment on this. "The world as we can only perceive it." For that is all that can be done. Perceive and learn to come to our OWN understanding of it. So in short you could read this and get an "idea" if you want, but you'll be the one to come up with your own answer on that.

"What does it mean to be a human?"

To be a human...well as stated previously, there isn't a definitive answer for this either. There are only possibilities. But if I were to make a statement on what I believe it means to be human it would be this: To live, yet experience. To learn, yet perceive. To question, yet to live free in your mind. That is all I can pertain towards this. You must find and perceive your own answer on this my friend.

"And when does a human know when its collective self, that which is called society or humanity, is doing more harm then good?"

As we take a look at the outside world around our eyes, and minds, or as some call it society, we notice that individuals will set standards and a judgement on what is considered "good" and "bad." I would go on with this answer, however this mere question will surely lead to many more questions depending on how one answers it. Therefore I will put my answer or belief on this question on hold.

"Is this the fate of humanity?"

No one will ever know this. One can only make predictions on it. Whether you choose to believe it is another story. Our choices to believe, to perceive, the choices we make will affect us somehow. I'd like to say that we are somewhat partially responsible for our own actions. The decisions we make will affect us in the near future. That is normally how our life corresponds.

In the end, most of our answers come to our "choice to believe" or simply "choice" to begin with. Whether you choose to believe this, whether you choose not to listen to this, whether you choose to find a hidden meaning within these statements. Whether you choose to post to this response. The decisions you make, the steps you choose to take, will influence you somehow.

But why do we choose? Simply put, because we have the ability to do so.

---------

Well that's all I have to say for the most part. The rest is up to you. But here's another quote by me:

"The one who denies the beauty or concept behind some things, may not have the right to understand them..."

[zeevzeev]

alot of this is just carpe dium: seize the day. " it's better to die on your feet then to live on your knees" for example

when you cut down the tree, did you wonder how many more rings there could have been if you didn't cut it down? would have possibly been a better question.
3 quotes come in mind. "life is what you make of it" or something like that and "life's a joke. play along." which i don't really agree in but just came to mind. also: the purpose of life is to live.

the way i see it, all fate is: doom. Doomed to what is another question. the fate of a person is ultimately death, and the fate of mankind probably leads to something like that too.

[Hell_bound]

Have you ever asked yourself if it were possible to know something others don't know?
The size and shape of the falling snow, or perhaps the countless dead that will be stacked in rows?
A macabre vision of reality that only reveals itself when you look beyond that which you are told.




I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them fall away
Mildewed and smoldering. Fundamental differing.
Pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion
Disintegrating as it goes testing our communication

The light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us so
We cannot see to reach an end crippling our communication.

I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them tumble down
No fault, none to blame it doesn't mean I don't desire to
Point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over.
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication

The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
And the circling is worth it.
Finding beauty in the dissonance.

There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away.
Mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting

I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication.

Cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any
Sense of compassion
Between supposed lovers/brothers


Can you look past this pseudo-truth,
The message of hope, propagated by the blind and the hollow minds we call our elected officials?
Can you see what real truth is?
Can you feel that truth?




get me, get me, a little closer
let me see the phantom view
take me right into the center
of the nine eleven news

get me, get me, my voyeur fetish
keep me shackled all day through
electronic world transmission
everything I see is true

give me, give me, observation
let me have the on-site feel
give me, give me, the true sensation
for I need a touch of real

show me, show me, what is happening
in the world beyond my door
and in time i'll be forgetting
what i have been living for

help me, help me, i'm too frightened
to fulfill my hardest task
will i ever find the answers
to the things i dare not ask


Can you feel the desperation, the fear of a change to come?
Can you feel the masses becoming unnerved because they know it wasn't the change they were sold?
Can you feel the enemy preparing to make their stand?
And when they do, you know, bombs will race over the land.




This is temptation
These are the years we've left behind
Your revelation
This is the cruelty of our time
I can't escape it
Take back every word I've said
There's no belonging
The voices of the dead

And when the stars are falling
Projections on the screen
Another day is dawning
Come back to me
And when the night is calling
For everyone to see
The memory's still haunting
Come back to me

This is impatience
These are the hungry mouths to feed
No complications
This is abandon of our needs
I can't erase it
Take back all the tears we've shed
Useless behavior
A war inside my head


If the dead could talk...
They would tell you this truth...
To take your stand now before it's to late...
Will you choose truth or lies?




Last textural reports
A plan of locations
Cross points of agencies
A program of density
Of a force that cannot be determined
Science at this point must become alembic
Magnetic field disturbances
Have irradiated our equipment
We have lost all contact
We are alone
In the shadow of shadows
In the dream of dreams
In the sleep of sleep
I see it's form
We have no more time now
We are alone
Final entry report
I have removed all obstacles
That impedes it's progress
My duty is to serve the power
That holds me captive
There are no more choices
We have opened a new door
To a new horror that will finally destroy us

The time has come...
No where left to hide...
There will be no peace, when you choose lies.

[Angel_de_Combate]

H_B your endless song lyrics have become boring..i mean i understand that you use them to put a point across, but come on..use more words ffs.:fury: You just sound your ranting basically.

As for you Zero, love your comments as always :wub2:

What is reality?

The world as only we can perceive it.

Not bad for someone who only has tiny grasp on philosopy. :superpusso:

[Hell_bound]

H_B your endless song lyrics have become boring..i mean i understand that you use them to put a point across, but come on..use more words ffs.

It's strange that you would say this because as I wrote out a few ideas, a lot more then what was given here, those songs played in the background from a 'net radio station.

That is to say, from writing and listen I was able to see a connection between two random events. Yes, often I just write random things and out of those things, if something inspires me, I will widen a fews things and they become a base for something ;). And of course I have no control over the radio station play list, and if the truth be known this is the most I have ever listened to this station.

But what is more interesting to me is that you felt that those lyrics were there to express my point (and how couldn't you given my past posts), maybe subconsciously they were - but in the process they were chosen because of how they sounded as a whole and not based on their lyrics.

To me this is interesting, very interesting because both posts where done that way.

Oh and the 'net radio station is called: ampedOut and their slogan is: it's like a god's rubbing your tummy. Genre is industrial ebm electronic and where you can find this radio station is here: http://ampedOut.net

I love experimenting, its the seed to understanding ;).

[Xero_Aurion]

I love experimenting, its the seed to understanding ;).


You do? Well so do I! (well I am a Tech Op in a Lab)

How about this for an "experiment."

Don't listen to music, melodies, or anything that constitutes to a beat, rhythm, or tempo when "thinking" of any ideas xD

There. That should test your mind out. :P

__________________

I said this before in one of my previous comments, I figured it deserves a quoting moment

"To live, yet experience. To learn, yet perceive. To question, yet to live free in your mind...our choices practically define us in a way..."

[Hell_bound]

I said this before in one of my previous comments, I figured it deserves a quoting moment

"To live, yet experience. To learn, yet perceive. To question, yet to live free in your mind...our choices practically define us in a way..."


Although it's true we all have a choice, most of the time though our choices are constrained by our environment, abilities, social status and laws that govern our nations.

There are a lot of people that have lived that thought they were doing things because they felt they had a choice, a choice that would lead to a better society.

Such people are Martin Luther King jr., Mohandas Gandhi, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, JFK and Salvador Allende.

These people, and many like them, felt that there was a choice that needed to be made, but unfortunately they failed to realize that not all groups within a society, the world, want people to have the freedom to choose.

And as you see by the high level of authority some of these individuals had, it doesn't matter how powerful or great a leader you are. You step on the wrong toes and your a dead man.

Death is but one way that society restricts people's choices. Another is socio-economic status, which translates to "he with the most money wins".

Another is skin color. Yet another is sex. Still another is age. And then we can get into other areas as well, such as sexuality, beauty, intelligence, type of job one holds, weight, hair color, the type of music one listens to and so on and so forth.

Yes it's true that we have a choice, but with so many doors closed to individuals its no wonder there are more poor, uneducated, starving people in the world then there are affluent and educated.

The idea of choice goes hand and hand with the idea of individualism - both are a myth. Anyone who thinks other wise is just a fool.

[Xero_Aurion]

Although it's true we all have a choice, most of the time though our choices are constrained by our environment, abilities, social status and laws that govern our nations...

The laws that govern us now...were made by people who made that choice to create such a thing...

Social status? That's just a set of words people "choose" to say about other individuals based on what they have seen.

Abilities...well when we choose to use our abilities correctly (once we see them that is) then maybe...

The environment? Uh that constantly changes from the choices we make while IN the environment. But all in all it's more than likely that it goes both ways, not one way or the other.

...There are a lot of people that have lived that thought they were doing things because they felt they had a choice, a choice that would lead to a better society.

Such people are Martin Luther King jr., Mohandas Gandhi, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, JFK and Salvador Allende.

These people, and many like them, felt that there was a choice that needed to be made, but unfortunately they failed to realize that not all groups within a society, the world, want people to have the freedom to choose...

It's very ironic that you mention such individuals. I'm chuckling to myself a bit reading this. I'll tell you why...there are two major commonalities you did not mention with these said characters that can possibly prove my point you just quoted even further.

--On a side note, another reason I'm chuckling is...well...you've heard of personality tests right? I'm sure you are familiar with the MBTI or Myers-Briggs Type Indicator tests? Well I took those tests years ago and I still do just to see if I changed in my personality (which I never have changed, I'm still the same) and the result I got was INFJ. Now I'm not here to go into detail on that but you can simply look it up here:

http://www.personalitydesk.com/infj-type-description.php

And you can look it up even more on your own time.--

...The idea of choice goes hand and hand with the idea of individualism - both are a myth. Anyone who thinks other wise is just a fool.

Now...here is my counter to what you just said near the end. There are two major commonalities between the characters that you just mentioned.

1) These individuals had the same goal in regards to trying, or attempting to make a difference for the better of their society when they were living. Not only that but they made their names noticeable to society around them through their own actions and choices up to a point where some are recognized in history.

2) They were "silenced" (killed)

Now I'm not just referring to the fact that they were killed from being assassinated, we already know that for some of these individuals. Let us look at the reason as to why they were silenced. It seems rather clear that these individuals were silenced for the sole purpose that their voices were becoming too powerful to some people...those people probably disagreed with them, or did not like the way things were going with them, or whatever. Here is something else to consider. Have you not wondered what made these people do what they did? (assassinating these individuals?) These individuals were silenced either by a sole person who made the "choice", or a group of individuals. However, even in the "group assassinations", I could certainly make the assumption that the group was formed by the "choice" of a single individual.

Now where am I getting with all of this? It's simple, the clincher of this post is that these two points I mentioned fall subject to this statement.

And yes...it is a quote...another one. (I'm a man who loves to go by powerful quotes and even made up ones by myself)

"All it takes is one person, a bit of courage, and a single choice to make what could ultimately be the difference in the world..."

Now this statement can clearly go many different ways, however, it makes one thing relatively certain. That is this: The idea of choice is not a myth, it is all around us. It's simply a matter of finding it. Whether the choice is good or bad is dependent on the person obviously. We can make whatever choices we like and it can define us in a way. We may have been "limited" with some choices, however, it has not stopped us from pushing on to continue to make our choices. If you are going to call me a fool for showing belief in this then I give you one last quote to read that I personally made myself and posted previously on here...


"The one who denies the beauty or concept behind some things, may not have the right to understand them..."

Have a good evening, for I have "chosen" to no longer respond to your posts in particular. xD

Just kidding, but still have a good evening none the less.

[Hell_bound]

The laws that govern us now...were made by people who made that choice to create such a thing...

Social status? That's just a set of words people "choose" to say about other individuals based on what they have seen.

Abilities...well when we choose to use our abilities correctly (once we see them that is) then maybe...

The environment? Uh that constantly changes from the choices we make while IN the environment. But all in all it's more than likely that it goes both ways, not one way or the other.


I find it sad that your so confined to what you want to believe that your unwilling to consider that there is an opposite reality to what you hold to be true. But that doesn't matter, for you will either come to know truth or you will become a slave to lies.

And right now your a slave to lies...


I'm sure you are familiar with the MBTI or Myers-Briggs Type Indicator tests? Well I took those tests years ago and I still do just to see if I changed in my personality (which I never have changed, I'm still the same) and the result I got was INFJ. Now I'm not here to go into detail on that but you can simply look it up here...


Just so you know I hold a BA (which is a four degree at an American University) in which I double majored in both psychology and sociology (double majors are not entirely rare, but rare enough) - so yes I know about MBTI and even taken it. And I also know much about personality and it's development - most of my psychology classes revolved around that subject, in one way or another if not directly involved in the subject.


Now...here is my counter...


You try to hard... Your assertions of reality is based on things that you believed in because the actions that you took, based on this belief, produced results that allowed you see yourself as master of your own destiny (hence the connection between choice and individualism), and maybe to see yourself as better then others. But the fundamental problem with all this is: is that your actions, along with your belief, was not only supported by society, but was also taught to you by society.

That is to say, someone one or maybe a group of people taught you how you should behave, and what you should believe in to maximize the benefits of society: a job, an education and ect.

And whether you were conscious of this or not part of the teaching process was watching people who didn't do what authority said get punished or maybe you rebelled against the system in which you also experienced punishment. These punishments, either experienced or observed, must have had a profound affect on you because you have a hard time seeing the connection between what you were taught to what you became. But none-the-less your belief is what some may call a self-fulling prophecy - even to the extent that you would blame yourself and others for a wrong you and they did not commit - because you cling to this idea of "choice" so dearly.


I think it's extremely important how society affects individuals because through this understanding we can come to know the myths that are propagated to us that make us believe in a system which is largely rigged to benefit a small group of people. Thus you think you have benefited from your belief in the myth known as "choice" but in reality there are few, maybe more, that have benefited more from your belief in such a choice.

And why is that a bad thing? Because how do you know, as an individual, when your government or other social institutions and even the people around you are doing more harm then good? How is it that you can distinguish truth from lies? And how do you know when this "belief" benefits others more then yourself?

If you really want to know where I base my ideas from, which you will find out are based on scientific fact - because all these theories were tested, and retested and the outcomes were the same (hence the science of sociology), then here is a list of readings, all easy because its from wiki:


Introduction to sociology and some basic concepts:
Sociology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology
Social class:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class
Life chances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_chances
Power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(sociology)
Roles: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Sociological_Theory/Role_Theory

Some thinkers and shakers of sociology:
Émile Durkheim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Durkheim
Max Weber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
Karl Marx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx
George Herbert Mead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Mead
Erving Goffman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erving_Goffman
Michel Foucault: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault

Some core theories of sociology:
Marxism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
Feminism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
Gender identity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_(gender)
Symbolic interactionism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_interactionism
Interactionism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretivism_(social_science)
Looking glass self: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_glass_self
World-systems approach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-systems_theory <- personal favorite


You can "choose" to believe what you want to believe, but in the end I know what truth is because I not only studied it but I also lived it.

[Angel_de_Combate]

http://www.metarasa.com/resources/mmdi-report/

:biggrin:

I sound like a pair of scales hehe, tipping to either side when i need to.

But what is more interesting to me is that you felt that those lyrics were there to express my point (and how couldn't you given my past posts), maybe subconsciously they were - but in the process they were chosen because of how they sounded as a whole and not based on their lyrics.

Of course i felt that, its what you do H_B :p

[_dracus_]

Hell_Bound you are just a troll. You never post something interesting, only lyrics copied from lyrics website, well in fact you don't know to think by yourself you just do quotation and references, but it's empty, hollow, I wish you a good bye.

[backe]

Just so you know I hold a BA (which is a four degree at an American University) in which I double majored in both psychology and sociology (double majors are not entirely rare, but rare enough)
Woohoo! Two worthless degrees for the price of one!!

[Hell_bound]

Hell_Bound you are just a troll. You never post something interesting, only lyrics copied from lyrics website, well in fact you don't know to think by yourself you just do quotation and references, but it's empty, hollow, I wish you a good bye.

LOL.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not trolling...

The lyrics are important whether consciously or unconsciously picked. I'm sorry you cannot see life though my eyes...


Woohoo! Two worthless degrees for the price of one!!

That is really a matter of perspective now isn't? I mean look at the times we live in, if anything those two schools of thought are to become more important.

Thing is you really don't know how important those two schools of thought are in maintaining the rules of society, and the world.

But how could you, for if you did you wouldn't be so quick to scoff at them.

[Inkster]

you know what Mr Bound?

This is probably the most consise and best thread you have ever posted, Kudos to you :thumb:


Edit: opps fixed typo

[Xero_Aurion]

I find it sad that your so confined to what you want to believe that your unwilling to consider that there is an opposite reality to what you hold to be true. But that doesn't matter, for you will either come to know truth or you will become a slave to lies.

And right now your a slave to lies...

No I already know there's an opposite reality to this...what I was trying to say is that when choice is affected by society, it can also be said that society is affected by choice. Regardless of the reason behind the choice to begin with. I'm trying to say is that they can both go hand in hand. It never is just one way or the other, nor is it going to be a balance between the two. It's certainly a mix between them (choice affecting society/society affecting choice) but not a balanced one.


Just so you know I hold a BA (which is a four degree at an American University) in which I double majored in both psychology and sociology (double majors are not entirely rare, but rare enough) - so yes I know about MBTI and even taken it. And I also know much about personality and it's development - most of my psychology classes revolved around that subject, in one way or another if not directly involved in the subject.

Really? That's awesome! Good for you!

You try to hard... Your assertions of reality is based on things that you believed in because the actions that you took, based on this belief, produced results that allowed you see yourself as master of your own destiny (hence the connection between choice and individualism), and maybe to see yourself as better then others. But the fundamental problem with all this is: is that your actions, along with your belief, was not only supported by society, but was also taught to you by society.

That is to say, someone one or maybe a group of people taught you how you should behave, and what you should believe in to maximize the benefits of society: a job, an education and ect.

And whether you were conscious of this or not part of the teaching process was watching people who didn't do what authority said get punished or maybe you rebelled against the system in which you also experienced punishment. These punishments, either experienced or observed, must have had a profound affect on you because you have a hard time seeing the connection between what you were taught to what you became. But none-the-less your belief is what some may call a self-fulling prophecy - even to the extent that you would blame yourself and others for a wrong you and they did not commit - because you cling to this idea of "choice" so dearly.

I think it's extremely important how society affects individuals because through this understanding we can come to know the myths that are propagated to us that make us believe in a system which is largely rigged to benefit a small group of people. Thus you think you have benefited from your belief in the myth known as "choice" but in reality there are few, maybe more, that have benefited more from your belief in such a choice.

And why is that a bad thing? Because how do you know, as an individual, when your government or other social institutions and even the people around you are doing more harm then good? How is it that you can distinguish truth from lies? And how do you know when this "belief" benefits others more then yourself?

I agree with the above in general, however, I think that society primarily affects you when you are growing up into the stages of adulthood. Take for example when there is a child, their parents would most likely be considered the "society" around them, as well as teachers and their friends. But even though society affects them, it doesn't guarantee that their choices are going to be affected either. Because as they grow up into adulthood, they are going to be bound to make decisions for themselves and this is in hopes to further themselves. (or anyone that is associated with them.) Which is pretty much why I stick with the fact that I'm choosing something. Because that is what I am doing technically, I'm making a decision in something (regardless of reason)

I've already thought about those concepts and actually, one of my purposes IS to help benefit not just myself but others as well and this is intentionally. I'm normally the kind of person to give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to most people. That can be both a strength and a weakness depending on the situation. I guess if I had to fall in a category, it would most likely be under the category of idealism I think. Anyways...I don't know every -ism category out there.

If you really want to know where I base my ideas from, which you will find out are based on scientific fact - because all these theories were tested, and retested and the outcomes were the same (hence the science of sociology), then here is a list of readings, all easy because its from wiki:

Introduction to sociology and some basic concepts:
Sociology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology
Social class:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class
Life chances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_chances
Power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(sociology)
Roles: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Sociological_Theory/Role_Theory

Some thinkers and shakers of sociology:
Émile Durkheim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Durkheim
Max Weber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
Karl Marx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx
George Herbert Mead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Mead
Erving Goffman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erving_Goffman
Michel Foucault: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault

Some core theories of sociology:
Marxism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
Feminism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
Gender identity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_(gender)
Symbolic interactionism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_interactionism
Interactionism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretivism_(social_science)
Looking glass self: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_glass_self
World-systems approach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-systems_theory <- personal favorite

You can "choose" to believe what you want to believe, but in the end I know what truth is because I not only studied it but I also lived it.[/QUOTE]

You seem to have quite an extent of knowledge based on Sociology. Plus the fact that you make your statements based on fact makes it good. In fact it's very good! I personally commend you for that as well as your knowledge on this. However, I get the feeling that it's a bit one-sided. As if to say that it simply listens to fact and disregards anything and everything else, which doesn't quite seem right. Meaning that there doesn't seem to be a questioning side to what you've been discussing. Now when I say questioning, I mean to consider any possibility regardless if there is a fact behind it. If it sounds logical, then I think it should be considered at the very least. Which I don't think you may have done entirely.....

One thing I know about any science, is that there's always a theory or concept behind it. But since it is a theory, which goes to show it isn't a law, it makes it subject to question. Even if the questions seem very odd and may very well have no possible answer. Regardless of the fact that it has been tested to be known as an unofficial law, will still not make the difference. Since the fact is that it still remains a theory.

Anyways I'm trying to take both sides into account of this...if there's something I'm missing or if I made no sense somewhere then just ask because my posts were intentionally made to catch your attention, I'm not trying to disagree or say what you are saying/doing is wrong, I am just here to learn and live. (Plus the topic at hand is: "The world through your eyes..." so we are not really in position to make personal comments to you. We can only state our opinions.) Know that what I mentioned in my previous post was just something I found interesting to "point out." Plus I thought it would help since it didn't look like you were "thinking the other way around" You can tell me what you like. But I'll still do what I want. However one thing is for certain. Your voice isn't going unheard when talking to me. I am certainly here to at least listen to your opinion, and then formulate any questions or even question it with my own or even with something I'll want to "point out."

[Hell_bound]

you know whay Mr Bound?

This is probably the most consise and best thread you have ever posted, Kudos to you

I'm grateful that you think this, and thank you for your kind words; it means a lot.


... what I was trying to say is that when choice is affected by society, it can also be said that society is affected by choice... I'm trying to say is that they can both go hand in hand. It never is just one way or the other, nor is it going to be a balance between the two. It's certainly a mix between them (choice affecting society/society affecting choice) but not a balanced one.

Although I understand what you are saying here and also think that generally this is a true statement, you hit upon an important idea here about balance. In that in order to truly understand why people are, intentionally, limited in their choices is because most people are limited in their resources. Unfortunately resources equate in this world as power: the more you have the more power you have, the more choices you have.

So in this framework we need to be weary of how certain messages are propagated within our societies through media (television, music, movies, print, talk shows and ect.), government officials and corporations (nike, aig, american express and ect.) because these entities (1) control all information within our society and (2) can create (when they coordinate their efforts together) an image of reality that is not only untrue but also unsustainable. And they do this because they know how to manipulate public opinion (through the theoretical theories of sociology and psychology), and in the end what that means for them is that they gain control and most the wealth of the populous.

And it all starts, for example, by making one believe they have a choice between consumer products; that they have the choice to pay for that product now or later; that they have a choice in who should be president; that have a choice in what to learn; that they have a choice to define who they are... but in reality each choice that you make that allows them to gain is actually taking away your power and striping you of your resources, be that money, production (making products or ideas) or even time.


These choices lead one to believe they are a free agent within the world, but in reality it causes slavery.


...I think that society primarily affects you when you are growing up into the stages of adulthood...

This is definitely when the seeds are sown, in the youth of a society; but like any seed, that is laid in fresh fertile soil, it germinates and thus its root structure spreads out deep within the soil, its branches grow and spread out, and even though it does as nature tells it to, as it grows it casts a shadow to all around it (think like sun hitting a tree or sunflower and how that casts a shadow). This is exactly how ideas are taught to us and how those ideas in later life (adulthood) still affect how we see reality - they can even be subconscious.


...I get the feeling that it's a bit one-sided. As if to say that it simply listens to fact and disregards anything and everything else, which doesn't quite seem right...

It should feel this way to you because (1) you never really heard of this message so in a way its a new paradigm in which to view things, and (2) because nothing, and I mean nothing, that you view reflects this in your reality (and that is because between the seed sowers and and the people who attended the growth of those seeds the message of that reality was so synchronized that it seemed seamless). And I would assume that in some ways it may even seem threatening, at least that is the way its been with other people I have talked to about such issues. But that feeling doesn't make it any less true.


Anyways I'm trying to take both sides into account of this...if there's something I'm missing or if I made no sense somewhere then just ask because my posts were intentionally made to catch your attention, I'm not trying to disagree or say what you are saying/doing is wrong, I am just here to learn and live. (Plus the topic at hand is: "The world through your eyes..." so we are not really in position to make personal comments to you. We can only state our opinions.) Know that what I mentioned in my previous post was just something I found interesting to "point out." Plus I thought it would help since it didn't look like you were "thinking the other way around" You can tell me what you like. But I'll still do what I want. However one thing is for certain. Your voice isn't going unheard when talking to me. I am certainly here to at least listen to your opinion, and then formulate any questions or even question it with my own or even with something I'll want to "point out."

I kinda have an advantage over you in that I been entrenched in these schools of thought for a while now and even done studies of my own that were based on their theories and findings, but I'm grateful that you have taken an open mind to all this because most don't (and the reasons why are stated above).

But also you should know that from our exchange here I also have benefited - by you presenting the opposite side you allowed me to formulate and expand that which I know, as well as allow me to communicate this in a new way, and even come to some other conclusions on past things I thought about. So I'm thankful that you're willing to engage in these types of conversations ;).

And its not about making you change, because there is one thing that I can guarantee: you will change in one way or another because that is the process of life - life is constant change. We just have to keep asking is this change good?


The sky is not the same shade of blue
Every single thing I believe isn’t true
Missing in the maze of monochrome
How did I get here, how can I go home

The echoes in my eyes, of all they used to see
Burning down the world, the ashes and debris
And all that’s left of me, non-entity…

Try to stand in line, try to obey
The ghost of what I was keep getting in the way
Staring at the sun, I’m blinded by the light
Now I’m afraid I’m fading out of sight

The echoes in my eyes, of all they used to see
Burning down the world, the ashes and debris
And all that’s left of you, and all that’s left of me
All have washed away, non-entity...

[Xero_Aurion]

Hell_Bound you sound a person who likes to listen and learn depending on the information. So I have a request for you. I'd like you to watch this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139

I have already viewed this video. I did post this before (in a different thread) and indicated that it was rather informative. However, now I'm curious to see how an individual such as yourself might respond to this video. This video is approximately 2 hours long, so I'd advise you to watch it when you have the spare time, and when you're mind isn't occupied with anything else.

Then I'd like you to post what you think on it please.

[Static_Fang]

Have you ever thought about the END?

I have, its beautiful. Theres No idiots, no bullies, no right and no wrong. Just... a void.

Within the void, nothing bad nor good happens. No harm can come for you, no pain no suffering. Everything will be neutral. No words, no thoughs just...nothing.

So tell me, is it insightful to think that which is bad is good? Is it insightful to question what is there? Why question life, you've got one shot at it so dont listen to anybody else. Do what you want, do what makes you happy.



My alias are many, one is Venom, I'm a gamer, a nerd/geek hybrid and a spider fanatic. And i'm fucking proud of it.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Have you ever thought about the END?

I have, its beautiful. Theres No idiots, no bullies, no right and no wrong. Just... a void.

Within the void, nothing bad nor good happens. No harm can come for you, no pain no suffering. Everything will be neutral. No words, no thoughs just...nothing.

So tell me, is it insightful to think that which is bad is good? Is it insightful to question what is there? Why question life, you've got one shot at it so dont listen to anybody else. Do what you want, do what makes you happy.

You only live life once :superpusso:



My alias are many, one is Venom, I'm a gamer, a nerd/geek hybrid and a spider fanatic. And i'm fucking proud of it.

Kudos to you, my lovely xD

[Hell_bound]

Hell_Bound you sound a person who likes to listen and learn depending on the information. So I have a request for you. I'd like you to watch this video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139...

Then I'd like you to post what you think on it please.



I'm going to be honest with you because I think you been a really cool person to bounce ideas off, and a person who seems to play devils advocate really well ;).

Here is the deal, videos like these seem to have their facts all lined up (but note they never give a source to those facts) to disseminate a perfect rationalization to what's going on, but the people that create such videos are ignorant of the real truth.

The real truth is that not one entity, human being, or organization can be attributed to the claims being made in this video.

And the reason why that is, is because humans from different nationalities, political spectrums and so forth don't act in unison because often they are at odds within one another.

So to explain what the video cannot explain is that humans often work for the same outcome, even though they might be at odds with one another. And often this working is done without a conscious effort of the actors who are doing the acting.

That is, if you look at human nature, it's kinda like random action - within that random action you will have people working towards the same goals but with a different means of obtaining that goal; however, eventually their paths may cross and one might (a person who observes this action, like the individual that created this video) think that two (or more) groups were actually working on the same plan.

This idea comes from chaos theory and is the best way to describe actions of people in power (but act separate from one another), who can change the core of a nation or a group of people.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, and here I agree in that the best way to explain this is by the picture that is found at the top of this site (though read the site because the idea of a bifurcation is important to understanding human nature) : http://spanky.fractint.org/www/fractint/bif_type.html

Now as you can see there was an action, from that action it causes two actions, and from those two actions it cause thousands of actions, but note how those thousands of actions intersect and cross one another, forever changing the coarse of action (and thus aligning it with actions from another group) that preceded the action before the interaction or cross happened.

I will say this however, this video shows something very special about human beings and that is how humans chose to rationalize what is going on around them; however, the rationalizations in this video are all wrong because Rothschild never created the Golden Dawn, it was McGregor Mathers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_MacGregor_Mathers ) , and I know this because basically I follow the tradition of the Golden dawn with my workings of Magick.

That is right, I practice Magick. And anyone who knows about the true nature of Magick will know that all that is stated in this video is pure bullshit.

Again you can believe what you want to believe... but somewhere the truth (as you can look through my posts as I stated many times before) lies between the objectiveness of science and the inherent nature of spirituality.

Hell_bound



I chip away
Cause I'm not ok
So I
I chip away
Poked a hole right into myself
And inside I found someone
Who said I was O.K.
Still I don't feel easy

On this tree
Among the blossoms
Caustically
I am the thorn
Close my eyes to take up spare time
I wish I just
Could be where the crowd goes
With the crowd
They must be going somewhere

Up from the catacombs
I ran into the angel again
He took the high road
And I took the low road
We both were dirty faces
We both were dirty faces

I don't
I don't
I don't
Don't feel easy
I don't
I don't
I don't
Don't feel easy


Sorry man the link above doesn't really explain a bifurcation really well, only from a mathematical standpoint. I think these sites should help better when understandin them from the viewpoint of human action:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

And more mathematical explanations, remember from a sociological/psychological view we need mathematical models to explain human nature and this is where it derives from (the link above):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifurcation_theory

* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIKz-_zP1yI