An Observation

[Inkster]

Ok to open this thread id like to start with the following

The Inn A place to gather around and chat about any subject

I would like to open the following discussion in that case

It seems that we have a new moderator on the forums.
Although gamemod has been around as a name for a while now,
previously it was Kailer before his name was announced.

Although it is a good thing that the forums are moderated,
I personally think that the person using the gamemod name
is been rather over zealous in his job, indeed earlier today
an innocent post and as far as I can read a sensible discussion
on the new moderator was closed with a very abrupt message from the
moderator in question. Not only could this be deemed as rude, but also
very inpersonal to the client-base of NGD studios and also rather
counter-productive to their business on a whole.

I am sure this will get either deleted or closed in a short period of time
but I feel it needed to be said. What are your opinions on this.

(Don't turn this in to a slander or flame thread please guys)

[Mattdoesrock]

Thanks for saying that we were all thinking.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

In 5 minutes this thread will probably be just deleted and ignored, just like Edge's last moderation-complaint thread a few minutes ago that probably no one read it.

:tsk_tsk:

[Syd_Vicious]

You never know, typically new mods on sites that have established rules will like to read into them too much. Sometimes pay attention to some rules more then others as dictated by management, go off of management interests instead of preposted rules, and a bevy of other reasons. While the closure can be seen as rude the person behind it may not be within tolerance of experience and so it may all be a learning experience for them dealing with a new community.

It could also be a nameless account utilized so not one person can develop a socio-empathic relationship to prevent collusion between Moderator and End User. Somewhat of a stop gap to end some possibly perceived favortism. Who knows.

[UmarilsStillHere]

As I said in the other thread, I dobut this thread will be open for more than an hour (last time I said this it was closed 6 mins later)

Mods, please remember this (the inn at least) is a place to talk about anything and speak freely, preventing the topic here will only push it in game or onto Irc (and the wider puplic eye)

[RegnumIrae]

100% agree.

I dont get his moderation way. In the spanish inn, there's a thread about songs (offensive songs) from Ignis for Alsius and Syrtis (http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=50967). In the first song, it calls Syrtis and Alsius "shit", "cowards", and, if I'm not wrong, "bitches" (not directly).

A few posts after that one, there's one guy with another "song", calling us "hdp" (hijo de puta, "motherfucker"), "puto" ("fucker"), and "cagon" (an offensive way of saying "coward")

What did gamemod do? He closed the post because the thread wasnt breaking any rules, but the incoming answers would (that's what he said).

So.. isnt calling me and my mates motherfucker, bitches, cowards, fuckers, shits, etc offensive? I think it is.

So atm, everybody can see the post, but nobody can defend theirselves.

[DkySven]

I agree with Inkster, being too harsh as a moderator can only destroy the community in my humble opinion as moderator myself.

I'd like to quote William Shakepeare's Merchant of Venice:

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice bless’d;
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
’Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown;
His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptred sway,
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
It is an attribute to God himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God’s,
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
That in the course of justice none of us
Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
And that same prayer, doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy.


I do not mean anything with the use of religious terms, it's just about mercy.

[Dannboy]

+1 for the maker of this thread.
I have nothing to say, I just hope that for gods sake that you didnt permaban Edge.
You have made 80% of the good people in this game leave.
You have been building the ini zones, and making eye candy just to get those nasty 8 year olds to come and play, and of course bring their mommys wallets.
You have forgotten about the people that truly enjoy the game. That were in it because of the community.
You dont care about what we say. You dont even reply it, and I doubt that you even read it sometimes.
You have been sparkling everything. Made false promises. Said things that was never done. Taken things from us that were never given back. Not even a placebo.
You are terrible.
When I started in this game I knew that it sucked.
But I gave it a try. I met people. I stayed here for THE people.
THE people leaves because of your ways, and THE people you ban.
So many great players have left, I wont say you dont listen, but you never get anything done.

I was almost crying when I heard that Edge was banned, now those tears have turned into anger.
I have no idea why you did this, and I will never forget this.
You are going low on people that makes me stay in this game.
And I that even considered getting Xim to buy a horse at chirstmas time.

Well, I guess I had something to say afterall.
Good Bye

Cant give you Karma Ink, seems like you have been posting way too much Win lately.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

I just hope that for gods sake that you didnt permaban Edge.

Don't worry about that, It's his 2nd ban, not the 3rd(permanent).

[Dannboy]

Don't worry about that, It's his 2nd ban, not the 3rd(permanent).

I know, but still =/

[Pizdzius]

Yes I support you on this Inkster, thanks for posting this. You are right, and we all are worried what's going on. And miss Edge, too.

[Adrian]

Hi Community,

Reading this only leads me to, even if most of the work is being done correctly, review some of the methods of how moderation takes place.

Everyone has a different point of view when it comes to this task and maybe no one is positive about it. We'll try to be more communicative, but we also need your help in this one, please understand that we need to do things fast. So, when you suppose something, at least think that the post that got deleted broke a rule, not the opposite, as many tend to do.

The forum is an important tool for us (jeez, I must have said this a hundred times :biggrin: ) and we need some kind of order. Remember that we need your help too to keep this going.

Oh! Also, please be specific about what things you see wrong about current moderation (and be constructive). This is something that I care about and is a neverending problem, as many would share with me.

Regards,

[backe]

+1

One of the issues that bothers me is the inconsistency of moderation on these forums. I understand that forum moderation is no small task, especially in Regnum's case as there are language barriers between users, but the point still stands. Threads about forum moderation are being locked in the Inn, which is typically a totally unmoderated subforum, whereas the Balance subforum has all but been completely unmoderated since shortly after its opening, even though it is supposedly "heavily moderated". Anyway, it is just a bit confusing, tbqh.

[Inkster]

A side note, Game mod closed a thread here in the inn where he has no business in doing so.

As you can all see the moderators here are clearly shown as Ponter and Kailer.
Moderators should also follow the forum rules

[Adrian]

A side note, Game mod closed a thread here in the inn where he has no business in doing so.

As you can all see the moderators here are clearly shown as Ponter and Kailer.
Moderators should also follow the forum rules

Hi Inkster,

That is only a forum option that allows the moderator to receive reports and other features. NGD members moderate the whole forum even if they aren't listed.

Don't make this a "me vs. moderator" thread. Please, we must be united to get things forward, so state the points I asked for in my previous post :)

Regards,

[Inkster]

ok my bad, but im sure you can see how a simple mistake can be made

[Mattdoesrock]

Personally, I don't think that it's the fact that things are deleted etc. etc. But because no one knows why.

If more explaination and communication went into these matters, people would be far happier.


Also, who is the behind the gamemod mask?

[UmarilsStillHere]

please be specific about what things you see wrong about current moderation (and be constructive).

* Over liberal with the 'remove post' button, if the community feels something is being done wrong and says so removing the post wont change the players opinion, it will only annoy him that the time was taken to read/remove his post but not to read/reply to any questions he may have.

* Over liberal with the 'ban' button, Edge was banned seemingly for bringing up the mednet quests (this is his 2nd ban for this if I remember) if leveling in Ignis is a pain its an issue to be looked at and delt with not buried in the past.

* False deadlines, we love when you give info on when something will be released, more so if its a wanted feature, but a false deadline causes this sort of thing

High hopes -> Waning hope -> Annoyance -> Anger -> Mistrust in NGD

If we keep poking you for a time on when something will be done if you dont know say we dont know, hopfully before X time, dont set a date in stone if your not sure

Ill think of more later or let others carry on :)

[theotherhiveking]

Hi Inkster,

That is only a forum option that allows the moderator to receive reports and other features. NGD members moderate the whole forum even if they aren't listed.

Don't make this a "me vs. moderator" thread. Please, we must be united to get things forward, so state the points I asked for in my previous post :)

Regards,

Once we even got a 'im closing this if...' warning in a freetalk thread because we were going offtopic.

Its okay to have rules and to make people comply with them, but not that much...

[Adrian]

I get your idea. The problem is that when you can freely talk about anything, most users do so and without getting far off topic, just a joke or two. But here's the problem, when this starts to happen, a bigger snowball starts to roll when some other users do "whatever they want, wherever they want". So far, normal forum activity, but here comes the thing I tend to worry about: old users do not use the Bad Post Report tool or they reply to misplaced threads or even insultive ones.

When you see something that is against the rules you must report, not reply to it. That would be a good start, as reports are the fastest way to get to the moderator.

I see that I will have to modify the forum regulations and how warnings and measures will be applied for them to be understandable (more work grrmphhh!).

Also, just to say it, the most important contribution a user can do in this forum is stating possible solutions, not just pointing out problems. If the forum is full of pointed out problems we will only see what we already know. If we see solutions, we will surely read something we didn't know and maybe, if time allows, start a nice discussion.

Regards,

[Brother-brian]

A while back, 6 mos or so, someone got banned for posting something like basically "some people at NGD seem like people who do have very much intelligence" or something pretty inncuous like that. While others were coming right out and saying all KINDS of cruel, hateful, and quite humorously inventive things about NGD, this is the post that got banned.

Go figure.

Its like calling someones mom a east coast whore, and getting away with it, but getting nerfed for saying that someones mom doesnt bake cookies very well.

[veluchami]

Also, just to say it, the most important contribution a user can do in this forum is stating possible solutions, not just pointing out problems. If the forum is full of pointed out problems we will only see what we already know. If we see solutions, we will surely read something we didn't know and maybe, if time allows, start a nice discussion.

Regards,

For starters, why dont you unban Edge when most(all?) of the community thinks it was unfair? Dont want to say anymore coz I never had the chance to see his post in the first place.

To make a misjudgment is human. But you could atleast acknowledge it by making it right ie., unbanning Edge in this case.

[Mattdoesrock]

A while back, 6 mos or so, someone got banned for posting something like basically "some people at NGD seem like people who do have very much intelligence" or something pretty inncuous like that.

Actually it was "I am rather considering you as a guy with lower inteligence."

She got a perma ban right off the bat. No previous offenses.

It was lifted later to a month long ban, but still... Christ almighty. Needless to say, NGD lost alot of respect that day.

[Syd_Vicious]

The following is just my recommendation:

1) About Community users

1.1) You can't insult or verbally attack other users using words either in an indirect or direct way.

Remarks: The language of this rule makes it so that people can not be called out for their B.S. I believe rather this statement would apply:

1.1) Inflammatory posts made specifically to attack other users will not be tolerated and will be reported via the “Report Post” tool located below the Username of the posting user.

This language used ensures that comments made to derail a trolling are allowed and not seen as being an attack and identifies the “Post Report” tool in the first rule mentioned.

1.3) It's forbidden to accuse any user of any kind of activity, be it inside the game or in the forums. To report the mentioned cases you must send an email to abuse@ngdstudios.com.ar with proofs and corresponding explanation.

Remarks: Any kind of activity? You want to know about anything we think someone is doing? Very big brother of you. I don't think you want a screeen shot of where some users' heads are. I would recommend:


1.4) It's forbidden to accuse any user of any kind of cheating or bug abuse, be it inside the game or in the forums. To report the mentioned cases you must send an email to abuse@ngdstudios.com.ar with proofs and corresponding explanation.

This boils it down considerably and is similar to the way it was before.

2) About Forum published conten

2.2) You can't send pictures with obscene content that may offend the sensibilities of others or links to pages with content for grown ups.

Remarks: For what country and age do you consider a grown up? Violence and some blood is a common place item for the USA, but are not well received in Europe as far as the “for grown ups” remark is considered. Whereas nudity is acceptable in some countries, yet is seen as Pornographic in the USA. Where is the line drawn?

Recommendation: 2.9) Short posts (two words or less [that is what a poll is for], without any graphical depiction associated) will not be accepted.

4) About Forum sections

4.4) Forum "The Inn" will have all the topics that are not related to Regnum Online or that their content is not relevant to the topic at hand. Every topic fulfilling this description which has been created in any of the other sections will be moved to this forum.

Topics that are not relevant to the topic at hand is somewhat of a contradiction. Maybe: Topics that contain a majority of posts that are off topic will be moved to the Inn.

6) About measures to be applied

The violation or public praise of the violation of any of the points described in this Regulations or sub-regulations will have as a consequence the following measures:

Incidental fault: Notification if the offense seems accidental or incited by another user (other users).

First fault: 2 day account ban
Second fault: 7 day account ban.
Third fault: Permanent account ban.

At least with an Incidental Fault as it applies to the forum would constitute a warning (post, pm, email) that at least lets a user know they have stepped out of line or to get a post back on topic.

[Torg_Snowflake]

Hi.

I belive inkster refers to my thread.

What made me really uncomfortable is that the delete attacked the kind of funny yet respectful threads we have sometimes.

Basically I noticed a couple of quick actions without Kailer's gentleman kind of James Bondy touch XD

I deduced it was a new mod and I made it to give it a place to say hello to us :)

It was jokey, but pretty much all we do it's like that.

I don't want to loose stuff as "I think Surak has a superb tushy" (Or something like that, by Piz :P )

[Pizdzius]

Oh but I think Surak does have a superb tushy :naughty:

Then again, Edge does too but not all tushies are equal in Regnum world :cuac:

[_dracus_]

Inkster, thank you for that thread.

As part of the community, I like the fact that we have moderators, it's always needed, the more the community grows, the more we need moderators.

However as Inkster pointed out, Gamemod, seems to be very present and I don't understand all is decisions. Maybe it's "only" a problem of communication.

So gamemod, if you read my post, I understand your job as moderator is hard and you have a lot to do, but I believe we would like to understand why you moderate a thread or ban a user. You can make mistake as a moderator, and we can make mistake too. What matters is a good communication to try to solve problems.

[Adrian]

I think this is going the right way. I also must point out that more communication means more time to cycle through the forums, so maybe there will be higher delays, or maybe not, we will see.

First, I have to modify the forum regulations and, considering my huge to do list, this will take some time.

Thank you for replying in a comprensive and thoughtful manner. I hope that this kind of problems start to disappear and that the community starts to help with users that don't moderate themselves, all for a healthier forum. :)

Regards,

[_dracus_]

I think this is going the right way. I also must point out that more communication means more time to cycle through the forums, so maybe there will be higher delays, or maybe not, we will see.

First, I have to modify the forum regulations and, considering my huge to do list, this will take some time.

Thank you for replying in a comprensive and thoughtful manner. I hope that this kind of problems start to disappear and that the community starts to help with users that don't moderate themselves, all for a healthier forum. :)

Regards,

Good luck :drinks:

[Dannboy]

Don't worry about that, It's his 2nd ban, not the 3rd(permanent).

Lies. He wrote on his homepage that he was permanently banned -.-
See, I told you it was true. Now its too late to reverse it.

[Inkster]

Lies. He wrote on his homepage that he was permanently banned -.-
See, I told you it was true. Now its too late to reverse it.

OK i said the following when i opened this thread

(Don't turn this in to a slander or flame thread please guys)

If you cannot follow that simple instruction then do not post
what you have said there sir is an opening for a troll thread

[ncvr]

There will be public warnings if there is a violation of a rule. They will be in the thread where the fault has taken place or privately if the fault is not belonging to a publication. The amount of warnings a user will have before a measure is taken will be of two (2). Replying to a warning post will be punished with a direct ban of the account.
http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=31264

I'm not seeing a whole lot of that happening recently. There have been a lot of unexplained bans.

[Dannboy]

OK i said the following when i opened this thread

(Don't turn this in to a slander or flame thread please guys)

If you cannot follow that simple instruction then do not post
what you have said there sir is an opening for a troll thread

Aw, right.
I could have said it another way. Just wanted to inform you that he got perma banned =P
Not start a flame thread -.-

[dani-o]

i dont like the lack of communication that gamemod have with us. we cant even send a PM to him, or qualify any of their post.

also i dont like how the threads are closed, if a thread breakes any rule and it has to be closed, we got to know what post broke what rule so we dont make the same error again.

and i feel that it is healthy for the community to know who is baned, how long and why. as ncrovarus has remarked.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Lies. He wrote on his homepage that he was permanently banned -.-
See, I told you it was true. Now its too late to reverse it.

Poor Edge, permanently banned on forum and in-game just because of 1 lousy post.
I understand the job of a moderator is to make the forum as clean as possible, but banning a user from the game permanently doesn't seem to be the nicest way to go. :/

Is it really too late(?)

[Angelwinged_Devil]

i dont like the lack of communication that gamemod have with us. we cant even send a PM to him, or qualify any of their post.

also i dont like how the threads are closed, if a thread breakes any rule and it has to be closed, we got to know what post broke what rule so we dont make the same error again.

and i feel that it is healthy for the community to know who is baned, how long and why. as ncrovarus has remarked.

yeah I tried to reply to gamemod the other day, he should get an account we could reply to.

if it really is a new mod I want to apoligize to kailer :p

Moderators should be more active in game, there are some people that makes your game less enjoyable, they are the ones who should be banned yet people who does far less worse things gets banned both in game and on the forum for speaking up to NGD.

I would like to see more communication yes, but also NGD not to take insults, complaints or critisism that personal, specially not from people who has played this game for so long, it's disrespectful act to people who has stuck around in their game for so long through fatique and evasion insanity

[_dracus_]

Poor Edge, permanently banned on forum and in-game just because of 1 lousy post.
I understand the job of a moderator is to make the forum as clean as possible, but banning a user from the game permanently doesn't seem to be the nicest way to go. :/

Is it really too late(?)

WHAT ?! He is banned from game too ? This is nonsense!

[Torg_Snowflake]

I like the idea of having a list of banned users, with reasons and how long until they come back.

[Inkster]

A list of banned users would be ok i guess.
The reasons for why may not be an ideal
thing to publish in detail though depending
on the reason, as it could cause a witch hunt
within the game community upon the banned
user once he/she has had the ban lifted

[Torg_Snowflake]

A list of banned users would be ok i guess.
The reasons for why may not be an ideal
thing to publish in detail though depending
on the reason, as it could cause a witch hunt
within the game community upon the banned
user once he/she has had the ban lifted

You think it's not ok for the community to know, for example, than a certain character has been banned for trying to steal accounts once? (having a "weird" chat conversation, no actual stealing done)

If it has to do with "rude language" or "not properly adressing a moderator" none will care (in a witch hunt sense)

In what situation you think it could turn awry?

[Inkster]

Account theft should result in a perm ban and yes on this i agree the person should be named.

For a lesser crime ie a bug abuse for killing mobs lets say, the person banned
could be named but maybe a generalized reason for such things

[UmarilsStillHere]

In what situation you think it could turn awry?

Well NC's last ban was rather controversial, although most of us know why since he bragged about it on IRC.