classes and speed

[lala110593]

I was thinking about speed today, and how many targets (including mages) have gotten away from my barb because i cant chase em to the door fast enough. Anyway heres my point, since warriors spend all their time chasing after people in close range combat, shouldn't they be FASTER than archers who are supposed to be in long range combat and dnt have to do much running to get their target (not including running away) ?



-glulose

[PT_DaAr_PT]

You have a good point there.

-Archers and Mages don't need to move alot to hit their targets(specially now that moving cancels casting and ranged attacks);

-Warriors, however, always need to be in movement to be able to hit a ranged player(It's also not easy with the horrible positional bugs around, you are sooo lucky because of that :rale:).

[VandaMan]

The way I see it, warriors are already faster in combat situations. In order to attack all mages and archers must stop, and their powers have cast times, while warriors can move while attacking, and have instant-cast abilities. An archer can move faster while running away, but when "in long range combat" as you say, the archer isn't fast at all, in fact he's stationary. Even when chasing someone who is running away, warriors have an advantage. You can just run along behind them while hitting, and never slow down. An archer or a mage will lose ground on a target if they try to attack them as they run away, unless they use some kind of CC to slow/knock/immobilize.

[Mattdoesrock]

Actually no, you do incur a speed malnus for every hit while chasing someone as a warrior.

[Pwnography]

i was attacked by a alsius hunter not long ago(a week or so) and he was able to strafe away from me,stop,attack and i couldnt catch him. luckily meni was near! xD

[lala110593]

The way I see it, warriors are already faster in combat situations. In order to attack all mages and archers must stop, and their powers have cast times, while warriors can move while attacking, and have instant-cast abilities. An archer can move faster while running away, but when "in long range combat" as you say, the archer isn't fast at all, in fact he's stationary. Even when chasing someone who is running away, warriors have an advantage. You can just run along behind them while hitting, and never slow down. An archer or a mage will lose ground on a target if they try to attack them as they run away, unless they use some kind of CC to slow/knock/immobilize.

you just made my point, the archer doesn't need to be fast because it is stationary while shooting, it only needs speed to RUN AWAY, and if the archer loses ground while chasing, they can make up with it by their speed and range. So I'm still thinking, why archers have more speed than the warrior?? I mean from my understanding knights where in much better shape than archers in the battlefield, archers were peasants.

-glulose

[_dracus_]

I can sum up quite easily: failure in class design.

I'm not a pro with MMO's but I know a bit WoW and GW, and in thoses two games warriors generally have short speed skill to get to a target, thoses skills have really low cooldown it's like: 5s duration / 20s cooldown.

In my humble opinion, hunter should be the fastest class on long haul, but on short chase (less than 1 minutes) it should be barbarian.

I'd suggest some skill named "charged" that would get you speed boost if you are running toward an ennemy for X seconds, and have a low cooldown.

[sdjin]

actually no, you do incur a speed malnus for every hit while chasing someone as a warrior.
这游戏怎么玩的阿？？不会阿 ，教教

[Mattdoesrock]

这游戏怎么玩的阿？？不会阿 ，教教

Translation: Chinese (automatically detected) » English
这游戏怎么玩的阿？？不会阿 ，教教

Ah how to play this game? ? Not A, teach

?????

[Arafails]

Need five more seconds of spring. That's all I'm saying.

[lala110593]

I can sum up quite easily: failure in class design.

I'm not a pro with MMO's but I know a bit WoW and GW, and in thoses two games warriors generally have short speed skill to get to a target, thoses skills have really low cooldown it's like: 5s duration / 20s cooldown.

In my humble opinion, hunter should be the fastest class on long haul, but on short chase (less than 1 minutes) it should be barbarian.

I'd suggest some skill named "charged" that would get you speed boost if you are running toward an ennemy for X seconds, and have a low cooldown.

agree, but with spells like escapist and sotw, archers are both the sprinters and long distance runners, this is where the imbalance occurs IMO. That archers have a high short distance speed and long distance speed.

-glulose

[Anpu]

With your run our "advantage", distance, is decreased faster than casting time of some spells.

[Arafails]

With your run our "advantage", distance, is decreased faster than casting time of some spells.
So you'd prefer for warriors to just be completely bum****ed? Because, y'know, running (whether to or from) is our only mode of play.

[e30G]

I think class design and balance was shaped around fort battles by NGD. I do not think that they consider open field fights. I also do not think any consideration was made for 1 vs 1 fights. Balance seems to have been created with multiple different classes in a single party vs a team of similar structure and numbers. This would explain a lot of the changes made by NGD in the last few updates.

Given that, it makes sense how archers can be faster than warriors. Warriors will need the help of their own allied archers and mages to slow down and soften enemy units before they charge in.

[Anpu]

So you'd prefer for warriors to just be completely bum****ed? Because, y'know, running (whether to or from) is our only mode of play.
Excuse me?

[Arafails]

Excuse me?
I do apologize, next time I'm just use my range 30 attacks on you.
Except, wait, I Don't Have Any.

What you said is irrelevant. Of course your advantage decreases fast. It has to, or the only thing a warrior can fight is another warrior. What's the point if a warrior has not the chance to reach you before you send them to the ground (again)? We should just hang up our weapons and armour, and let you kill us.

You can interrupt our casting of CC effects just fine, so why should we be disallowed from interrupting yours?

[Anpu]

I do apologize, next time I'm just use my range 30 attacks on you.
Except, wait, I Don't Have Any.

What you said is irrelevant. Of course your advantage decreases fast. It has to, or the only thing a warrior can fight is another warrior. What's the point if a warrior has not the chance to reach you before you send them to the ground (again)? We should just hang up our weapons and armour, and let you kill us.

You can interrupt our casting of CC effects just fine, so why should we be disallowed from interrupting yours?
It is relevant. Escapist fixes our fast lost "advantage". I can also ask you, whats the point of my range, if I cant keep it before you send me on the ground (kick for example)? Balancing is not done by matching one on one class, but analyzing usage of spells in wider battles or small team fights. Just like I can ambush you during your fight with our warriors, doesnt mean your archers cant do the same. I hope you understand why its marked as RvR game and not PvP. You are not important as one char at all. Coordination btw chars is important.

Warriors do not need more speed or other classes to loose speed. You are not sprinters, especially not with such armor and uber heavy weapons. What you need (maybe!) is sort of "leap", that you can "jump" on your enemy (you instantly pass some meters, exactly like Leap of Priestess of the Moon's tiger-like hero in DoTA (forgot name in DoTA)). In other games, warriors have such thing, or spell to drag his opponents closer to him (which is not impossible in Regnum, since lag does that already).

And I still think, base speed 20% boost, screwed up some things.

[lala110593]

It is relevant. Escapist fixes our fast lost "advantage". I can also ask you, whats the point of my range, if I cant keep it before you send me on the ground (kick for example)? Balancing is not done by matching one on one class, but analyzing usage of spells in wider battles or small team fights. Just like I can ambush you during your fight with our warriors, doesnt mean your archers cant do the same. I hope you understand why its marked as RvR game and not PvP. You are not important as one char at all. Coordination btw chars is important.

Warriors do not need more speed or other classes to loose speed. You are not sprinters, especially not with such armor and uber heavy weapons. What you need (maybe!) is sort of "leap", that you can "jump" on your enemy (you instantly pass some meters, exactly like Leap of Priestess of the Moon's tiger-like hero in DoTA (forgot name in DoTA)). In other games, warriors have such thing, or spell to drag his opponents closer to him (which is not impossible in Regnum, since lag does that already).

And I still think, base speed 20% boost, screwed up some things.

actually warriors are sprinters, historically barbarians were swift moving powerful attackers. and as for your rvr comment, this game's rvr aspect is ruined, often i find we are fighting an army of 20 archers, now how does your rvr concept of balance come into play there?

-glulose

[Anpu]

actually warriors are sprinters, historically barbarians were swift moving powerful attackers. and as for your rvr comment, this game's rvr aspect is ruined, often i find we are fighting an army of 20 archers, now how does your rvr concept of balance come into play there?

-glulose
Ok, if you are sprinters, then you ll be able to "jump" some meters and get closer to your target? Or you d still prefer higher speed and being still CC by Ivy, Ambush and what not, on the way to your target and possibly never reach it?
If you played maybe Shaiya, check how barb-like class enters in fight. I fricking adored it, target, when in range,jump, unload damage, pull back.

About RvR in RO, there is difference btw RvR definition and NGD's implementation. They had such issue since i started playing, back when archer were very dangerous. And as you can see, back then we had Archer era, where we suddenly got too many archers in game. Then came warlock time and everyone started mages. Warriors still didnt get such era. Why? Because simply still warriors didnt gain that lvl of power in game, to be noticed and wanted. And do not expect to be, as long as there are phantom swings and position lag.

So, IMO, it is more priority to fix major warrior problems, than mask it with more speed.

[lala110593]

Ok, if you are sprinters, then you ll be able to "jump" some meters and get closer to your target? Or you d still prefer higher speed and being still CC by Ivy, Ambush and what not, on the way to your target and possibly never reach it?
If you played maybe Shaiya, check how barb-like class enters in fight. I fricking adored it, target, when in range,jump, unload damage, pull back.

About RvR in RO, there is difference btw RvR definition and NGD's implementation. They had such issue since i started playing, back when archer were very dangerous. And as you can see, back then we had Archer era, where we suddenly got too many archers in game. Then came warlock time and everyone started mages. Warriors still didnt get such era. Why? Because simply still warriors didnt gain that lvl of power in game, to be noticed and wanted. And do not expect to be, as long as there are phantom swings and position lag.

So, IMO, it is more priority to fix major warrior problems, than mask it with more speed.

thats very true, and i did make a thread about some testings i did with phantom swings, but no matter what kind of logic and well made threads i try to make, NGD just seems to like to reply to DB's threads?
-glulose

[Arafails]

In fact the base 20% speed boost is exactly why warriors need speedier speed boosts, or speed boosts for longer. That and the whole nerfing onslaught thing.

Although I agree, Anpu, first thing that needs to happen is fixing the position lag problems (and phantom swings is a position lag problem, so doesn't need to be classified differently).

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

I was thinking about speed today, and how many targets (including mages) have gotten away from my barb because i cant chase em to the door fast enough. Anyway heres my point, since warriors spend all their time chasing after people in close range combat, shouldn't they be FASTER than archers who are supposed to be in long range combat and dnt have to do much running to get their target (not including running away) ?



-glulose

I know what you mean. chasing around enemies (archers in general) is a pain in the ass. on occasion (when the archer decides that they dont need speed) i can catch them with a combo of lvl 4 spring and lvl 4 ons. although it can take a while some times.