Some thoughts on Regnum in general...

[Raideniza]

After reading this article (http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/staffblog/022010/5716_The-Endgame-Myth.html) it made me realise why the grind is so endless in Regnum. There actually is no endgame content, nothing to do once you hit lvl50 which is the reason retention is so low in this game, so the devs try to keep this away from new players by setting insane xp curve and minimal xp gain.

When I look at top successful mmo's, like GW or WoW and try to think about why they're still so much played, aside from massive endgame content, the answer that hits me the most is their competitive nature. Both of those two titles were built with competition features in mind and that's what keeps players playing and new players coming - idea of earning some cash while playing your favorite game(s). This specifically goes for WoW, which is a premiere e-sports title with serious cash prizes and yearly competitions organised for it by the likes of ESL or ESWC. Imo, with the rise of e-sports these days people change their priorities and put competition on #1 and fun on #2. Just having fun doesn't cut it anymore. The trend these days with devs is buff the game up with insane graphics, provide a solid single player and ton of online competition modes and hope people get stuck on it. Recently I've stumbled upon a mmo that has worse graphics then Regnum, shittier movement & animations then Regnum and was on it's first day out of beta. I've tried this game, and found at least 10 times more people online then in Regnum, despite all it's more then obvious flaws and when I asked some people why do they play that crap, the ones that answered said "competition". So I go to that game's forums, and what do I see. $10k to winner team of 4 (or 5, can't remember anymore), + cash prizes for teams ranked 2nd and 3rd. Then I checked some other topic, first x players that reach lvl xx get alot of premium currency as reward. No wonder people want to play it, no matter how crap it is. On the other hand, Regnum has no graphics to attract people, no depth in content (at least not anymore since it's beggining to shape up as one of those generic mmo's that offer a bad deja vu experience) and no competitive edge. No wonder servers are half empty (if not worse) most of the time, no wonder Tyr died just within a few months and no wonder people on Regnum irc only/mostly talk about replacing Regnum with some other mmo.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

I have to agree. i actually finished the tenax quest (last quest in ignis) and it gives 25000xp and 33000 gold. but other than that. you get nothing. nothing at all. it seemed kinda anticlimactic.

And i know well enough that once i do get to 50, nothing extra happens. not even with the lvl up animation.

[makarios68]

This is not WOW, it is Regnum Online, the best PVP game i have yet to come across.

The endgame is PVP in the warzone - period!

There is no need for 'organised competitions' (with maybe the exception of the occassional special event) - there is competition enough against other the enemy players.

The other games you mention don't come near to the excitement and unlimited PVP scenarios that the regnum WZ has to offer.

Granted, there are some tech issues that need sorting.

Once these get resolved i think you will be hard pushed to find a more exciting on-line place than the RO warzone.

[monktbd]

This is not WOW, it is Regnum Online, the best PVP game i have yet to come across.

The endgame is PVP in the warzone - period!

There is no need for 'organised competitions' (with maybe the exception of the occassional special event) - there is competition enough against other the enemy players.

The other games you mention don't come near to the excitement and unlimited PVP scenarios that the regnum WZ has to offer.

Granted, there are some tech issues that need sorting.

Once these get resolved i think you will be hard pushed to find a more exciting on-line place than the RO warzone.

I have to agree to this and also link to another post I just made which links to some suggestions that could improve the overall experience:
http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/showpost.php?p=941118&postcount=8

[Noicha]

This is not WOW, it is Regnum Online, the best PVP game i have yet to come across.

The endgame is PVP in the warzone - period!

There is no need for 'organised competitions' (with maybe the exception of the occassional special event) - there is competition enough against other the enemy players.

The other games you mention don't come near to the excitement and unlimited PVP scenarios that the regnum WZ has to offer.

Granted, there are some tech issues that need sorting.

Once these get resolved i think you will be hard pushed to find a more exciting on-line place than the RO warzone.

+2

The lvl 50 cap isn't a must have in this game. It can be as much fun on lower levels aswell.
Lvl 50 is something you can aim for, if you wish to spend many many hours (and often cash too) to make your character as strong as possible.
Some people refuse to understand this. though.

[Shiriki]

Let's just hope that after the new models are finished, NGD thinks of new things besides 4 new quests? (At least in Ignis, in the Amun, there are 4 new ones.)

[Raideniza]

This is not WOW, it is Regnum Online, the best PVP game i have yet to come across.

The endgame is PVP in the warzone - period!

There is no need for 'organised competitions' (with maybe the exception of the occassional special event) - there is competition enough against other the enemy players.

The other games you mention don't come near to the excitement and unlimited PVP scenarios that the regnum WZ has to offer.

Granted, there are some tech issues that need sorting.

Once these get resolved i think you will be hard pushed to find a more exciting on-line place than the RO warzone.

I haven't ever mentioned that Regnum is WoW. The regnum endgame is, imo, unique and exciting only in concept - not in practice, and like you said - there are tech issues that need sorting. Server crashes, lags caused by big pings and phantom swings to name a few are only a small number of reasons why Regnum WZ is crap as it is. Granted, if at least 50% of existing issues get fixed and that there is a decent influx of new players that would provide bigger wars then some 20-30 a side the Regnum WZ might actually become a fun place.

As for other games mentioned, you are right, they don't come near to the excitement and unlimited PVP scenarios of Regnum WZ, they surpass it by far.

Regarding competition, maybe I have put this wrong in my first post. I didn't mean it in a way that Regnum should have organised competitions, I just said it doesn't have a competitive edge (not necessarily organised competitions) or flashy graphics that would attract more people. I hope I cleared that point up a bit.

Basically, to sum up my 1st post: I'm not making any suggestions about how Regnum should be developed, I am merely sharing my thoughts.
The lvl 50 cap isn't a must have in this game. It can be as much fun on lower levels aswell.
Imo, it is. On lvl50 you can finally make a proper build and make sure nothing is missing. On lower levels, even lvl49, you miss a point or two (or more, depends how low you are) and it just doesn't feel right. As for warzone participation, if you're not at least lvl40 - not only that you're a nuissance, you're also a burden. And until you're at least lvl45 you're going to be a (too) easy kill for right about anyone.

[monktbd]

Imo, it is. On lvl50 you can finally make a proper build and make sure nothing is missing. On lower levels, even lvl49, you miss a point or two (or more, depends how low you are) and it just doesn't feel right. As for warzone participation, if you're not at least lvl40 - not only that you're a nuissance, you're also a burden. And until you're at least lvl45 you're going to be a (too) easy kill for right about anyone.

Most of that is so much not my opinion.
Ofc you cannot have all the things in a build that a lvl 50 has.
Even at 50 there are things some would miss but then it is the same for all lvl 50.

Everyone is useful in the warzone, even a lvl 10. As a conj I do not heal a lvl 10 but they act as a good distraction to the enemy and if they take away a shot or two from others then they serve a purpose. A lvl 10 archer with a lvl 2 ambush can serve its purpose just right.
Generally I try to choose my priorities of healing and mana giving as good as I can and every lvl and class can fulfill a purpose if chosen and played properly with warriors being likely the ones to suffer most from being a lower level.

I dunno if this is your first char (Dec 2009) but I play in the wz for more than a year and still do not have a lvl 50 char. I can easily live with that. I apologize to everyone who thinks that I am a nuisance when I try to heal them :p and most often it is just a try and I am still learning every time but I am also shaking my head a lot of times (a good part of that about myself).

Any actions to take away from the core of the game (RvR) once a certain lvl has been reached is counterproductive IMO. Enhance the RvR for higher lvls first then look for additional PvE after the PvE for low levels has already been made better.

Honestly someone who looks for PvE likely did not choose the right game and will get bored pretty fast.

[Ulti19]

Though i've only been here almost one year, i'm still not even a little bored of the warzone. I love hunting, taking forts, meeting random enemy on fields, all of it. I've played tons of games, mostly consoles, and though this one has some technical issues I think it pwns them all in the end. Never seen a game with this kind of insane pvp, and it's exactly what i was looking for^^
The community is another thing that makes this game really strong, very cool players here.

[Raideniza]

I dunno if this is your first char (Dec 2009) but I play in the wz for more than a year and still do not have a lvl 50 char.

Any actions to take away from the core of the game (RvR) once a certain lvl has been reached is counterproductive IMO. Enhance the RvR for higher lvls first then look for additional PvE after the PvE for low levels has already been made better.

Honestly someone who looks for PvE likely did not choose the right game and will get bored pretty fast.

Is it my first char? Depends on how you look on it. Anyway, I think you're wrong, without first improving the PVE for lower levels you're soon not going to have new players, on the other hand - neglecting the endgame results in departure of older players. Tbh, most whine on the forums comes from the older players, not from new ones. New ones probably find this grindfest nice, exactly how it is in every other mmo they played and they don't expect anything better. Imo, the devs should tailor the game to fit the new and incoming players, not older ones. And once there is a solid enough base of regular players they should start adding/improving/whatever endgame content.

[makarios68]

There's also the important issue of the price of this game: NOTHING!

Many other games have monthly subscriptions and charges for expansions, and they still don't have better PVP than RO.

Sure, you can speed up your uberness in this game by buying premium.

But never forget that a good, committed player can come into this game, lvl their char to 50, grind for epic items or kill elite bosses for epic items, and then compete in the WZ and beat the best players with the best items - and they can do all this for free.

Pretty good deal, don't you think?

[Raideniza]

There's also the important issue of the price of this game: NOTHING!

Many other games have monthly subscriptions and charges for expansions, and they still don't have better PVP than RO.

Sure, you can speed up your uberness in this game by buying premium.

But never forget that a good, committed player can come into this game, lvl their char to 50, grind for epic items or kill elite bosses for epic items, and then compete in the WZ and beat the best players with the best items - and they can do all this for free.

Pretty good deal, don't you think?
I'd rather if this game had a monthly subscription fee instead of the shop. Nominal price of this game is indeed 0 in any currency, but in 3-4 weeks I need to hit lvl50 with a char (+ customizations) I spend approximately enough money for, e.g. whole guild wars collection. Usually those F2P games with microtransactions cost the players more then mmo's with some sort of premium model (be it monthly subscription or just to buy retail box) in the long run.

As for the last part of good, committed player (...) Grind for epic items or killing elite bosses to get good drops takes months, I've participated in almost every evendim-daen-thork run for some 3 months in a row, grinded 8hrs/day with sm conju and sm lock for some 2 months in a row and only thing I got was some gold to cover my repair costs. And the people who do drop good items expect insane stuff in exchange or don't want to trade at all under the excuse that it's for their clan. I'm not sure you are aware how hard it is to get good items in this game for the whole last year (since invasions update). Skill in this game got completely overshadowed by your financial power to buy stuff and imo that kills off a lot of competitive spirit that this game had (unless you play a hunter and can do whatever you want around wz with no setbacks if you don't have good gear).

[monktbd]

Imo, the devs should tailor the game to fit the new and incoming players, not older ones. And once there is a solid enough base of regular players they should start adding/improving/whatever endgame content.

improving the initiation areas, new graphics engine and soon (tm) new models did exactly that: trying to keep new players in the game as this was what chilko saw as the biggest flaw: a lot of players leaving after maybe playing an hour or so.

Whether they succeeded doing so with the above improvements only they know looking at their logs.

High level player retention is also very important. most people who are very active on the forum have been playing the game for a long time. a lot of them complain that the good old times were much better then what the game is now and in some part they are correct and some others they arent in my opinion.

This game is about RvR in the end. And it should stay like this. If chilko thinks it should not then they need to work on PvE otherwise they need to work on RvR once the above mentioned steps for new player retention are completed.


I'd rather if this game had a monthly subscription fee instead of the shop. Nominal price of this game is indeed 0 in any currency, but in 3-4 weeks I need to hit lvl50 with a char (+ customizations) I spend approximately enough money for, e.g. whole guild wars collection.

Yikes! No to monthly subscriptions!
And I am glad that ngd commits to the business model they have shown.
If you have the money to save time by buying boosters and if you really need that cool haircut and armor color then well pay for it.
I dished out some money for the game but I did that for a game I play and enjoy for - well - years.
If people are greedy about things in game then they have to pay for it. (Be it with real money for Xim or with a ban by duping items)




... I'm not sure you are aware how hard it is to get good items in this game for the whole last year (since invasions update). Skill in this game got completely overshadowed by your financial power to buy stuff and imo that kills off a lot of competitive spirit that this game had (unless you play a hunter and can do whatever you want around wz with no setbacks if you don't have good gear)....

Times were good when people gave stuff away for free and there were no lucky boxes and gems that combined do changes not necessarily the outcome of fights but the overall greedyness in the game.

[Gytha_Ogg]

I'd rather if this game had a monthly subscription fee instead of the shop. Nominal price of this game is indeed 0 in any currency, but in 3-4 weeks I need to hit lvl50 with a char (+ customizations) I spend approximately enough money for, e.g. whole guild wars collection.

Not me. If this was a subscription game, I never would have started playing. I do buy xim on occasion (you can have Mr. Ed when you pry him from my cold, dead hands!

Which at Agg fights is generally about every 3 minutes. :bangin:)

I've also, like Maed, been over a year in-game and yet to reach 50, so I'm not nearly so efficient at grinding as you are. If you're doing it how you like, and can afford it, cool. If I want to do it on-the-cheap, it'll just take me longer.

As to improving the game for new players first, it should be easy to figure out when the game is losing players, just graph counts players who haven't logged in in 1, 3, or 6 months vs their level.

Last year, NDG beefed up the initiation areas quite a bit, and added some new quests, so I suspect they agree with you. They probably need to sit on those changes for a while, to get stats on how well they worked, before they layer on more changes.

There was also talk about changes that give lower levels a taste of RVR appropriate to their levels, I don't know if that's still in the works.

[makarios68]

I'd rather if this game had a monthly subscription fee

I suspect that you are in a minority here.

[monktbd]

There was also talk about changes that give lower levels a taste of RVR appropriate to their levels, I don't know if that's still in the works.

Yeah I hope there is more to that than the lvl 4 quest withe the dual banners and the mini arena in the initiation zone (speaking for alsius here) in the future.

[Raideniza]

I suspect that you are in a minority here.

possibly, but i said subscription fee instead of item shop. it'd create more stable incomes for ngd and a more fun and fair playing ground for the players + possibly lead to reduction of xp curve and increase of drop rate. a small fee of $10 /mo would be completely acceptable imo (and yearly less then what i spend on this game per year atm)

[makarios68]

possibly, but i said subscription fee instead of item shop. it'd create more stable incomes for ngd and a more fun and fair playing ground for the players + possibly lead to reduction of xp curve and increase of drop rate. a small fee of $10 /mo would be completely acceptable imo (and yearly less then what i spend on this game per year atm)

I would probably subscribe to such a fee also. If push came to shove and it was a choice between not playing or subscribing to a fee - i'd choose the fee.

But that's just me - however, there is a large base of players who would not or cannot pay this fee.

For example, there are no doubt many younger players (at college, etc) who would struggle to keep up a regular fee. Or maybe some whose parents would not agree to the burden of a monthly fee.

I can see how a game like RO suits these people - they can play for free, but whenever they get a bit of spare cash they can buy some premium.

As things are their 'subscription' is non-obliging and irregular - they pay whenever they can afford it.

I'd hate to see this change.

[Ulti19]

I would probably subscribe to such a fee also. If push came to shove and it was a choice between not playing or subscribing to a fee - i'd choose the fee.

But that's just me - however, there is a large base of players who would not or cannot pay this fee.

For example, there are no doubt many younger players (at college, etc) who would struggle to keep up a regular fee. Or maybe some whose parents would not agree to the burden of a monthly fee.

I can see how a game like RO suits these people - they can play for free, but whenever they get a bit of spare cash they can buy some premium.

As things are their 'subscription' is non-obliging and irregular - they pay whenever they can afford it.

I'd hate to see this change.

Totally agree with you. This game offers people that just can't play for a fee, even if small, a way to play RO. For some people it's not even a money issue, they don't want to use financial info over internet.

[ncvr]

I have to agree. i actually finished the tenax quest (last quest in ignis) and it gives 25000xp and 33000 gold. but other than that. you get nothing. nothing at all. it seemed kinda anticlimactic.
Well, to be fair neither the quest, its objectives or its rewards were written by NGD.

Anyway, many games fail because they don't have a good balance of early game, middle game and endgame content. Regnum is one of them. Sure, a well balanced warzone (class and realm balance) is awesome, but let's face it, you can only truly enjoy this at 45+. 90% of players who have just begun in this game will take a long time to get there, even if it takes an experienced player who knows what he's doing 1 or 2 months.

Early game is necessary because it gets a player attached to his character. You need to offer some enticing content or give players a taste of the endgame to keep them playing. Middle game in Regnum is the grind - around lvl 32 to 49 (or a little lower, depending on how many points you are willing to sacrifice for pvp), and it's the worst part of the game. Lots of players leave at under lvl 20, but even more would leave during the middle game even if NGD fixed the early game up.

Overall Regnum doesn't have a lot of content and it only appeals to a small audience. That's another point - NGD keeps trying to appeal to the masses who came from WoW and such, when they really don't have the resources or the time (with such a small team) to add such a huge amount of depth.

[_dracus_]

This is not WOW, it is Regnum Online, the best PVP game i have yet to come across.

The endgame is PVP in the warzone - period!


« Best PvP » ... it must be a joke.

However I do agree endgame is war zone :)

[Raideniza]

Well, to be fair neither the quest, its objectives or its rewards were written by NGD.
How do you mean?
However I do agree endgame is war zone :)
Yeah, but the warzone is like "ok once you hit level 50 we have put a warzone for you, now go make your own fun". And all that would be ok if the servers actually had enough people to support this idea (or wouldn't crash at times when there's enough people). Imo, warzone should be reworked into a smaller instance with xy players per team or there should be some kind of organised stuff constantly that makes everyone want to go to war. At least until there's enough people.

[Gideon_Slack]

How do you mean?

Yeah, but the warzone is like "ok once you hit level 50 we have put a warzone for you, now go make your own fun". And all that would be ok if the servers actually had enough people to support this idea (or wouldn't crash at times when there's enough people). Imo, warzone should be reworked into a smaller instance with xy players per team or there should be some kind of organised stuff constantly that makes everyone want to go to war. At least until there's enough people.

Make your own fun is exactly the idea. This is a feature, not a bug.

There are lots of games that have organized, instanced pvp. The thing that is unique about RO is that it sets out some objectives in the wz and allows the realms to decide what they want to do. You don't have someone telling you what to do every second you are logged on. Sometimes you have downtime, other times you have far deeper experiences than I've ever had before in an online game.

Also instanced pvp would be the death of RvR. Look what happened to Warhammer Online.

Warhammer cost 100-200 million dollars. It has 100k subscribers. People are giving it 5-9 months to live.

[ncvr]

How do you mean?
The quest was one of the winners in a player quest-writing contest some time ago.

Make your own fun is exactly the idea. This is a feature, not a bug.

This is true, but the path NGD is going right now is making this increasingly difficult. Let's see...the core of the game is the warzone, the RvR, and so is the endgame. But NGD keeps adding incentives to do things other than RvR, so most of the time will be downtime. It wasn't like this 2 years ago.

Personally I prefer the open PvP Regnum has, but it's difficult to make an idea like that work with all the potential problems. In fact wz activity was one of the major issues which caused me to quit. Some people here might not have been around long enough, but open RvR used to work perfectly. Everyone was focused on RvR, not gathering magna, grinding for drops or trying to get gold to pay for repairs. Those issues didn't exist back then because there was no magna, no uber drops and everyone had plenty of gold. Like I said before NGD is trying to add a huge amount of depth to a game which will require resources they don't have.

[Neliel_]

The quest was one of the winners in a player quest-writing contest some time ago.

The quest has been written by Edge.


Everyone was focused on RvR, not gathering magna, grinding for drops or trying to get gold to pay for repairs. Those issues didn't exist back then because there was no magna, no uber drops and everyone had plenty of gold. Like I said before NGD is trying to add a huge amount of depth to a game which will require resources they don't have.
Yes, back in 2007, it was like a train, you had just to rejoin the war group and you were ready for hours and hours of non-stop quality fort wars, and was by itself something that hampered leveling without the need for changes in the XP curve, and it was fun ;)

But take apart the nostalgy, since i'm playing from scratch again, i seriously don't think about going further than lvl 40, because WZ is often dead, at least when i play (mostly around 4-8 am CET), though I dunno if it's obvious for "real" new players, and if this is one of the reason they're leaving early (grinding as it is atm is #1 for sure :P).

[monktbd]

Imo, warzone should be reworked into a smaller instance with xy players per team or there should be some kind of organised stuff constantly that makes everyone want to go to war. At least until there's enough people.

ouch, please no.
give more options of what can be done in the warzone but no instances with xy players.

[monktbd]

Anyway, many games fail because they don't have a good balance of early game, middle game and endgame content. Regnum is one of them. Sure, a well balanced warzone (class and realm balance) is awesome, but let's face it, you can only truly enjoy this at 45+. 90% of players who have just begun in this game will take a long time to get there, even if it takes an experienced player who knows what he's doing 1 or 2 months.

Early game is necessary because it gets a player attached to his character. You need to offer some enticing content or give players a taste of the endgame to keep them playing. Middle game in Regnum is the grind - around lvl 32 to 49 (or a little lower, depending on how many points you are willing to sacrifice for pvp), and it's the worst part of the game. Lots of players leave at under lvl 20, but even more would leave during the middle game even if NGD fixed the early game up.

Overall Regnum doesn't have a lot of content and it only appeals to a small audience. That's another point - NGD keeps trying to appeal to the masses who came from WoW and such, when they really don't have the resources or the time (with such a small team) to add such a huge amount of depth.


Huge +1 to the bolded parts.
I am gladly still enjoy my middle game xD.

[Raideniza]

Make your own fun is exactly the idea. This is a feature, not a bug.

There are lots of games that have organized, instanced pvp. The thing that is unique about RO is that it sets out some objectives in the wz and allows the realms to decide what they want to do. You don't have someone telling you what to do every second you are logged on.
I know it's a feature, but us (players) don't have nothing to make our fun with. Either the warzone is dead for hours and there's nothing you can do, or the server is too crowded that it crashes. There are also other problems, for instance - some mates and I have tried to make our own fun numerous times. Us 7-8 would go take empty fort and scrim with others. The fun lasts max 20 mins then zerg comes and decides to camp in that fort, killing the fun not only for us, but also for opposing realm. So our group decides to move on, we take another empty fort and scrim with others. For about same 20 mins until zerg realises action has shifted and starts ruining the fun for everyone. Again. Scenario repeated (and still repeats) itself numerous times. In those cases everyone craves for an instance (reliable information) where you could scrim against even group with no retards (pardon my French) to spoil your fun.

I know that not everyone percieves fun the same, and that to majority the fun is camping fort for hours and farming rp's out of heavily outnumbered opponent. All I want is a fair system (be it instance or whatever) which would provide me with challenging fights and fun times online. Imo, it's not the realm population imbalance that causes this, it's the timezones. Seems all 3 realms are in a timezone of their own and can zerg (proved) at given times. There's nothing you can do about that except add some system/feature that would match up groups of similar numbers and levels against each other. It doesn't have to be an instance, maybe just prevent realm imbalance in wz by putting the cap on how many players can enter the wz from a specific realm. And when realms are evenly represented raise the cap of allowed players per realm in warzone for e.g. 15, etc. So basically, if there's 50 Syrtis in warzone against 30 Ignis and 20 Alsius, prevent additional Syrtis players to enter the warzone, and every time a player from Syrtis dies send him to inner realm and repeat the action until there's ~30 Syrtis, 30 ignis and ~30 alsius, then raise the cap of allowed players per realm in wz to 45, making it even for everyone, etc.

That being said, it's just a suggestion, maybe not even that, just some simple idea throwing with no real goal. It doesn't mean there should be a carbon copy of my idea integrated to the game but I strongly think NGD should implement some sort of automated wz balance system to make it fair and fun for everyone.

[linearguild]

So if the warzone is empty (0 players), nobody can enter at all? And if I want to grind in WZ, I must compete for a slot with actively warring players (and AFK dancers)?

http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=52758

Tactics are possible for the smaller group to defeat the larger. I've been on both side of such fights (the "good job, guys" and the "wtf happened") and to me it's always funny to see well-executed strategies no matter what side. It would be a shame if some misguided attempt at automating realm balance imposed constant equal numbers in the warzone.

(Disclaimer: I see more of Ignis peak than Syrtis peak due to my time zone.)

[Gideon_Slack]

I know it's a feature, but us (players) don't have nothing to make our fun with. Either the warzone is dead for hours and there's nothing you can do, or the server is too crowded that it crashes. There are also other problems, for instance - some mates and I have tried to make our own fun numerous times. Us 7-8 would go take empty fort and scrim with others. The fun lasts max 20 mins then zerg comes and decides to camp in that fort, killing the fun not only for us, but also for opposing realm. So our group decides to move on, we take another empty fort and scrim with others. For about same 20 mins until zerg realises action has shifted and starts ruining the fun for everyone. Again. Scenario repeated (and still repeats) itself numerous times. In those cases everyone craves for an instance (reliable information) where you could scrim against even group with no retards (pardon my French) to spoil your fun.

I know that not everyone percieves fun the same, and that to majority the fun is camping fort for hours and farming rp's out of heavily outnumbered opponent. All I want is a fair system (be it instance or whatever) which would provide me with challenging fights and fun times online. Imo, it's not the realm population imbalance that causes this, it's the timezones. Seems all 3 realms are in a timezone of their own and can zerg (proved) at given times. There's nothing you can do about that except add some system/feature that would match up groups of similar numbers and levels against each other. It doesn't have to be an instance, maybe just prevent realm imbalance in wz by putting the cap on how many players can enter the wz from a specific realm. And when realms are evenly represented raise the cap of allowed players per realm in warzone for e.g. 15, etc. So basically, if there's 50 Syrtis in warzone against 30 Ignis and 20 Alsius, prevent additional Syrtis players to enter the warzone, and every time a player from Syrtis dies send him to inner realm and repeat the action until there's ~30 Syrtis, 30 ignis and ~30 alsius, then raise the cap of allowed players per realm in wz to 45, making it even for everyone, etc.

That being said, it's just a suggestion, maybe not even that, just some simple idea throwing with no real goal. It doesn't mean there should be a carbon copy of my idea integrated to the game but I strongly think NGD should implement some sort of automated wz balance system to make it fair and fun for everyone.

Yep, I understand what you are saying. Unbalanced realms and realm fights are one of the problems that will crop up with open RvR (along with its advantages). This is inevitable. On the otherhand, the cure might be worse than the disease.

The system you are describing is actually used in Warhammer Online. They put a limit on the number of people who can participate in their RvR sieges. If the limit is reached you have to idle in a warcamp until someone leaves before you can enter. I think they did this for performance issues though (WAR has thousands of people per server and so much larger fights).

Obviously this also solves imbalance issues. But it introduces 3 new problems:

1) You have to wait. I have no idea how long the wait times are in WAR. One could imagine though having to wait 20 minutes to a half hour to get into the war zone (where many of the best grinding locations also are). So you trade getting flattened in a zerg to no action at all.

2) Can't come to the aid of your friends. This breaks up one of the big social aspects of RvR games -- everyone can come and fight for their realm and their realm mates. You might lose some degree of realm cohesion.

3) Pressure on lowbies to stay out of the war zone. If access is limited, how soon before the level 50s start pressuring the lower levels to leave the wz to make room for the high levels they need to take that crucial fort and stop an invasion? This would have a terrible impact on player retention. (You could have allow in so many of X level, so many of Y and so many of Z. But what are all the level 50s going to do who are locked out of the war zone?).

Warhammer is probably going to fail soon. You can debate whether limiting open RvR is one of its major problems (the worst is including only 2 realms). But in my opinion removing the open world RvR feel was one of its mistakes and makes it too much like other games out there (which are better).

(As a side note, instancing and limiting entrance to battles is also used in the ship vs ship game Pirates of the Burning Sea. They also have realm imbalance problems. Apparently most people want to play the British side, but not the French or Spanish. And this is another failing game, though Sony keeps it around to pad out their multi-game subscription offer.)

[Yttrium]

Yep, I understand what you are saying. Unbalanced realms and realm fights are one of the problems that will crop up with open RvR (along with its advantages). This is inevitable. On the otherhand, the cure might be worse than the disease.

What do you think about giving the outnumbered side an advantage instead of limiting the participation of the zerg side? e.g. 60 syrtis cross PB and are opposed by 15 ignis. Once the server detects this, the 15 ignis get to summon "ghosts of their ancestors" or something that act as pets until balance is restored.

[Raideniza]

What do you think about giving the outnumbered side an advantage instead of limiting the participation of the zerg side? e.g. 60 syrtis cross PB and are opposed by 15 ignis. Once the server detects this, the 15 ignis get to summon "ghosts of their ancestors" or something that act as pets until balance is restored.

There was a similar thing in the form of gate guards but it turned out to fail in terms of both ai and balance.

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

There was a similar thing in the form of gate guards but it turned out to fail in terms of both ai and balance.

lol yea. in my opinion, guard AI is a joke (especially at imperia).

[Yttrium]

There was a similar thing in the form of gate guards but it turned out to fail in terms of both ai and balance.

Don't you think it would be a bit different if they acted as pets, i.e. they would be under individual player control?

[Hamster_of_sorrow]

Don't you think it would be a bit different if they acted as pets, i.e. they would be under individual player control?

this would make it impossible for guards to defend an empty fort.

[Yttrium]

this would make it impossible for guards to defend an empty fort.

I think you're missing my point:

1. The forts keep their usual guards.
2. When the server detects a realm imbalance, all players in the underpopulated warzone get a new temporary spell: Summon Help or something.
3. The players that cast Summon Help get a new pet (an additional pet if they already have a pet or summon.)

It's not ideal, but the only ideal solution is to get more actual players to join the smaller realms.

Some ideas for the Summon Help spell:

1. Summon a clone of yourself
2. Summon an alt
3. Summon a realm ancestor of the same subclass