Texas to rewrite United States history with autocrat propaganda

[Henri_Freundlich]

Excerpts from http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/16/texas-schools-rewrites-us-history (http://j.mp/bu7UZP)


Several changes include sidelining Thomas Jefferson, who favoured separation of church and state, while introducing a new focus on the "significant contributions" of pro-slavery Confederate leaders during the civil war.

The [Texas] education board has dropped references to the slave trade in favour of calling it the more innocuous "Atlantic triangular trade", and recasts the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as driven by Islamic fundamentalism.

"There is a battle for the soul of education," said Mavis Knight, a liberal member of the Texas education board. "They're trying to indoctrinate with American exceptionalism, the Christian founding of this country, the free enterprise system. There are strands where the free enterprise system fits appropriately but they have stretched the concept of the free enterprise system back to medieval times.

In the past four years, Christian conservatives have won almost half the seats on the Texas education board and can rely on other Republicans for support on most issues. They previously tried to require science teachers to address the "strengths and weaknesses" in the theory of evolution – a move critics regard as a back door to teaching creationism – but failed. They have had more success in tackling history and social studies.

History students are now to be required to study documents, such as the Mayflower Compact, which instil the idea of America being founded as a Christian fundamentalist nation.

Knight and others do not question that religion was an important force in American history but they fear that it is being used as a Trojan horse by evangelists to insert religious indoctrination into the school curriculum. They point to the wording of amendments such as that requiring students to "describe how religion and virtue contributed to the growth of representative government in the American colonies".


Essentially, the state of Texas wants to indoctrinate all young children with pro-Conservative, autocrat messages, while stripping out liberal viewpoints.

Why aren't Texas Parents and Residents speaking out against this biased rewrite of history? Children should be given balanced facts - from both sides - to ensure that they have the capability to make the *right* choices for themselves.

Do Texas parents want their children (and others) to become mindless drones? Or do they want their children to be able to differentiate between what's right and what's wrong (correctly) by themselves?

Believing in (or blaming) God in this modern age isn't going to help solve the challenges that children; the nation; the world is set to face.

[mr_scsi]

Essentially, the state of Texas wants to indoctrinate all young children with pro-Conservative, autocrat messages, while stripping out liberal viewpoints.

Texas is a very conservative state. I grew up there and have yet to meet anyone there who is PRO entitlement mentality. We all believe in hard work and being self sufficient.



[B]Why aren't Texas Parents and Residents speaking out against this biased rewrite of history?


*see above.


Children should be given balanced facts - from both sides - to ensure that they have the capability to make the *right* choices for themselves.


I assume by *right* you mean what you think is right?? What makes you so sure you are right???


Do Texas parents want their children (and others) to become mindless drones?

Common sense runs rampant in the Texas schools I attended... nvm just see first point again.


Or do they want their children to be able to differentiate between what's right and what's wrong (correctly) by themselves?


Again do you mean *YOUR* view of correct? Or just what *YOU* think is right?


Believing in (or blaming) God in this modern age isn't going to help solve the challenges that children; the nation; the world is set to face.

Your absolutely reich we must dispel all freedom of choice and religion.
Just go to work, give your paycheck to the government and in return you will get everything you need. That about sum it up comrade???

Sniff Sniff Sniff, smells like trolls ass to me.

[Henri_Freundlich]

Your absolutely reich we must dispel all freedom of choice and religion.

Religion-heavy frameworks don't give families an option to choose whether to be religious or not. Children and families would most likely be isolated from other people if they aren't religious but live in a religion-heavy context.

Peer pressure, bullying, and so on.


Just go to work, give your paycheck to the government and in return you will get everything you need. That about sum it up comrade???

No, I don't support Communism. Communism's just one of those things that looks great on paper, but doesn't work so well in practice due to the vast nature of man and it's desires.

On a related note, the whole world seems to be getting bombarded with "Let's all accept Technocommunism (http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2010/04/the-real-red-scare.html)" messages, with the ignorant and gullible honing in and accepting the pro-Techoncomms messages, like mindless drones.

Yes, some "open source" complements closed-source nicely, but if everything goes 100% FOSS in a non-post scarcity setting, it all goes to rubble. Doesn't matter who implements the system - darkness in man's heart (http://www.enotes.com/lord-of-the-flies/q-and-a/discuss-goldings-idea-evil-darkness-mans-heart-78373) can not be eradicated.

Sniff Sniff Sniff, smells like trolls ass to me.

A premature tactic used to discredit someone who he (or she) doesn't really know - presumably based on this particular thread. Like I said, I don't support Communism. I don't support Technocommunism. I don't support Fascism. I'm Center-left, but not a radical.

I've been seeing a lot of pro-hivemind garbage over the past couple years - mainly from the young generation and a couple of adults on both ends of the spectrum subtly steering them into directions that *they* want to go; to get a step closer to *their* dream world. For some odd reason, the ignorants all follow, without even considering the possible consequences.

Children need to be exposed to a *balanced* set of moral and ethical values in order for them to become immune to hivemind principles and make rational decisions for themselves, for the rest of their [adult] lives.

[VandaMan]

...

So you support leaving out key facts from the text books children around the united states use? Whether Henri is a liberal or conservative is pretty irrelevant here, we're talking about intentionally feeding biased information to children all across the US, to cultivate their political views. Not acceptable.

[Comp]

Sadly things like this occur in all states since the Federal government really won't get involved unless there's an infringement on the Constitution. In reality, parents (cause I am one) should not rely JUST on the education system to "teach" their children about history, what's right, what's wrong, etc. Luckily I'm a more open minded parent and I allow my children the opportunity to explore and learn "what is" and not "what is perceived."

Ask my son what Abraham Lincoln did that was so important - one of his answers will be "He emancipated the slaves."

Educating our children is not just up to the school system.

[Vythica]

Texas is a very conservative state. I grew up there and have yet to meet anyone there who is PRO entitlement mentality. We all believe in hard work and being self sufficient.


Funny, I also grew up in Texas. Here's what I picked up living there; there's lots of people who seem to think that because they yell the loudest and point the most fingers that they are in the majority. Case in point; you.

Here's another; if people are in favour of social programs, and maybe raising taxes a bit to better everyone's lives, they get labeled as bleeding-heart, pro-entitlement (whatever the fuck that means), Communists. When in actuality they probably just understand that if everyone chips in a little more on taxes, then things like new textbooks (oh, the irony) can be afforded.


I assume by *right* you mean what you think is right?? What makes you so sure you are right???

Well here's a starter; Socialism works. Look around. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany (to a lesser extent), France, U.K. all have varying degrees of socialism. And low and behold, they have higher standardized test scores, longer life-spans, and better qualities of life.

Common sense runs rampant in the Texas schools I attended... nvm just see first point again.


Well maybe common sense did, but spelling and grammar must not have.
(By the way, where'd you go to school? I had some of the dumbest teachers I've ever met going to school in Texas.)

Again do you mean *YOUR* view of correct? Or just what *YOU* think is right?

Why is it that when a liberal voices their opinion, you label it as "pro-entitlement", but get super defensive when yours comes under scrutiny?


Your absolutely reich we must dispel all freedom of choice and religion.
Just go to work, give your paycheck to the government and in return you will get everything you need. That about sum it up comrade???

I find your attempt to relate communism to fascism a little funny, if tragic. The sad reality is that you probably don't know the difference; and it's because of people like yourself that sit on the textbook board that future generations of young Texans and Americans won't either.
And to be perfectly blunt, that's the way it should work; except minus the paycheque part. In return for your honest day's labour, the government should provide you with the necessities and luxuries of life. Despite what people like Henri say. (He's only pissed because of some second life b.s. Look at the b.s. made up words like "techno-fascism". Sounds like a Darude album.)

Sniff Sniff Sniff, smells like trolls ass to me.

No that's just 5 million barrels of crude washing up on Galveston Island, courtesy of your friends, the Republican party, and their irresponsible cronies in the oil industry.

Cheers, Comrade.

[Pizdzius]

So by reading guardian, you already know what's best for Texas? Didn' you even get an idea that almost all of them agree to this?
Believe me, almost everyone who grow up in autonomous countries is proud of what they were taught in childhood. Very often they consider the others as drones. Even me, who grew up in Catholic country, where every kid is FORCED to go to church and FORCED to believe in god, later on we can RESIGN from that. I didn't grow up hating god because of that, I just decided I don't need faith.
Don't you think that can happen in Texas?
People from there can be actually happy with that. They have different surroundings and different community. People from lets say, New York, are very often surprised that Cubans actually love Castro. Sometimes, they show "proofs" from "media" that they hate him. Have you been there? What do you know of what's not been written in news?
I highly believe in freedom of people and to be honest, right now, America is one of the last countries I'd live in. There's NO freedom of speech and almost no freedom of thought. You have to be really careful to not offend someone by expressing your opinion. It's beautifly mirrored in these forums, by the way ;]

In modern schools children AREN'T given the facts from both sides. Children in Russia won't learn about Poland invading Moscow and keeping the city for a long period of time, they will hear only a mention of assault, and that it was a good reason to keep Poland in their boundaries for 123 years. It's just an example.

I don't even LIKE Texas. But I just wanted to express opinion that perhaps people from there pretty much want this to happen. If someone doesn't - isn't the USA a country of states? Can't you move to other state in case you don't like one you live in? You don't need passports and visas for that, do you? USA is very big and I admire it for the incredible variety of its states. Let it be that way.

[Pizdzius]

Well here's a starter; Socialism works. Look around. Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany (to a lesser extent), France, U.K. all have varying degrees of socialism. And low and behold, they have higher standardized test scores, longer life-spans, and better qualities of life.



I know people from Sweden and Norway. They moved to Poland to save their asses, cause life is too expensive there. They have to get a loan to study, while in Poland educational system may offer you free education as long as you have passed some tests. They're not satisfied with their countries, and perhaps I'm not satisfied with mine, but they prefer living here in (still, but not for long) free Poland rather than in Socialism. And perhaps I'll prefer living somewhere else, too. Poeple are will see a better place rather than their own. The thing is, if we have the possibility to move, I think then we have some basics of freedom.

[VandaMan]

So by reading guardian, you already know what's best for Texas? Didn' you even get an idea that almost all of them agree to this?
Believe me, almost everyone who grow up in autonomous countries is proud of what they were taught in childhood. Very often they consider the others as drones. Even me, who grew up in Catholic country, where every kid is FORCED to go to church and FORCED to believe in god, later on we can RESIGN from that. I didn't grow up hating god, I just decided I don't need faith.
Don't you think that can happen in Texas?
People from there can be actually happy with that. They have different surroundings and different community. People from lets say, New York, are very often surprised that Cubans actually love Castro. Sometimes, they show "proofs" from "media" that they hate him. Have you been there? What to do you know?
I highly believe in freedom of people and to be honest, right now, America is one of the last countries I'd live in. There's NO freedom of speech and almost no freedom of thought. You have to be really careful to not offend someone by expressing your opinion. It's beautifly mirrored in these forums, by the way ;]

I don't even LIKE Texas. But I just wanted to express opinion that perhaps people from there pretty much want this to happen. If someone doesn't - isn't the USA a country of states? Can't you move to other state in case you don't like one you live in? You don't need passports and visas for that, do you? USA is very big and I admire it for the incredible variety of its states. Let it be that way.

I get what you're saying to a certain extent, but while the US is a country of states, Texas is the state that sets the textbook standards for the other 49. So their decisions have further reach than their own border.

More importantly though, we're not just talking about expressing an opinion in these text books, we're talking about completely removing any mention of other opinions. They aren't trying to teach children that the separation of church and state is unnecessary, they're removing the idea of separation of church and state altogether.

They want to push certain views, but rather than arguing against opposing views and allowing students to make choices based on information, they are making it appear as if opposing views don't exist. Trying to cultivate good citizens through the educational system isn't entirely a bad thing, but intentionally withholding information is not the way to do it, especially when Texas schools' vision of "good citizens" is not representative.

[Vythica]

They're not satisfied with their countries, and perhaps I'm not satisfied with mine, but they prefer living here in (still, but not for long) free Poland rather than in Socialism.

Here's the disconnect; you are equating socialism with a lack of freedom. A common mistake further fed by the media and "western" governments, Poland included.

Here's the basic point; Texas is unilaterally deciding for the entire United States, what children will learn, and it's being decided by religious zealots, not by historians and scholars. Opinion, faith, and indoctrination are being taught instead of fact, which is the only thing children should learn in school.

Public school should teach on to the lowest common denominator, which is testable, provable, history and scientific fact. If you want your kid to get a "special" education (i.e. religious) there are schools for that, that you are 'free' (as in no one is stopping you) to send your kids to.

[WhateverUSMC]

Texas is the state that sets the textbook standards for the other 49.

This is the main problem. One state shouldn't be capable of directing other states to the bathroom of a 7/11, let alone imposing their beliefs on others.

[Kratos_Aurion]

Texas..the state with the 48th worst education (2004-2009) :sleep_1:

[Llayne]

The irony is that this state board of education is changing things to preach the wonders of the free market before going to cash their paychecks signed by the government.

Say no to socialism! (http://i.imgur.com/590Ev.png)

[Cuchulainn]

[...]
Why aren't Texas Parents and Residents speaking out against this biased rewrite of history?[...]

Maybe some of this Texas Parents and Residents saw this caricature:

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2360/propagandaquestions.jpg

... and now they fear consequences for asking such questions (just a joke :cuac:).

Believing in (or blaming) God in this modern age isn't going to help solve the challenges that children; the nation; the world is set to face.

Right, but for a government it's easier to govern less educated people and it's easier to lead them to war :(

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

Right, but for a government it's easier to govern less educated people and it's easier to lead them to war :(

That explains why the Americans prolly have killed more British troops than what the enemy have.

"Orange square means fire right?"

[Kyrottimus]

Republican...Democrat....

Two wings to the same bird-of-prey.

They laugh as we are divided and bicker over the table-scraps that one side claims over another when the act of pitting us against each other makes it easier to sell one side of each lie.

There is the left-wing, the right-wing, and then the truth is in the middle somewhere.


If anyone wants to adhere to some cookie-cutter party philosophy instead thinking for themselves, by all means. It's the easier course to be ignorant than objective.

Of course, I see the simplest of all solutions to avoiding a state-run propagandized education (which I've seen BOTH sides of growing up all over the U.S.): Homeschooling.

Knock it all you want, but a good set of parents are leaps and bounds better for the Free Will and critical-thinking in development of a youth than some institution which waters down every person as a name on a roster which adds to their funding and budget.

The best way to destroy something pure and simple (such as the truth of history) is to institutionalize it (liberal or conservative agendas aside; they BOTH f*ck up the real picture).

Stop fighting over crumbs and declare yourselves Americans, not liberal or conservative, not Republican or Democrat, not left or right. Want to stay divided over the small stuff? Go right ahead. I say focus on the really big problems first and work our way down as adults, not as squabbling hens pecking at each other over feed.

Question EVERYTHING. Accept nothing at face value.

[Henri_Freundlich]

Despite what people like Henri say. (He's only pissed because of some second life b.s. Look at the b.s. made up words like "techno-fascism". Sounds like a Darude album.)

My personal views of Second Life/Linden Resrech - that Linden have been (and still are) rolling out pro-corporate anti-customer policies while allowing under-the-radar Griefing groups (like Emerald/Onyx (http://www.sluniverse.com/php/vb/general-sl-discussion/44468-onyx-source-code-has-been-15.html#post933811)) run rampant have absolutely nothing to do with this thread, nor does it have anything to do with my anti-Communism views.

Communism isn't a viable option until post-scarcity kicks in (if it ever does), due to the self-centered nature of man.


Public school should teach on to the lowest common denominator, which is testable, provable, history and scientific fact.

Facts need to be accompanied by case studies from both liberal and conservative viewpoints. Without case studies, children won't know why/how the facts were conceived.


Question EVERYTHING. Accept nothing at face value.

Some people question everything first and then decide and others 'trust' everything first and slowly decide for themselves at a later stage.

In reality, parents (cause I am one) should not rely JUST on the education system to "teach" their children about history, what's right, what's wrong, etc. Luckily I'm a more open minded parent and I allow my children the opportunity to explore and learn "what is" and not "what is perceived."

Most parents these days just lets their children roam the Internet by themselves with no guidance whatsoever...
It's good that you are actively engaged in your children's education :)

[Vythica]

The irony is that this state board of education is changing things to preach the wonders of the free market before going to cash their paychecks signed by the government.

Say no to socialism! (http://i.imgur.com/590Ev.png)

I love you Kal.


Republican...Democrat....

Two wings to the same bird-of-prey.

They laugh as we are divided and bicker over the table-scraps that one side claims over another when the act of pitting us against each other makes it easier to sell one side of each lie.

There is the left-wing, the right-wing, and then the truth is in the middle somewhere.


If anyone wants to adhere to some cookie-cutter party philosophy instead thinking for themselves, by all means. It's the easier course to be ignorant than objective.

Of course, I see the simplest of all solutions to avoiding a state-run propagandized education (which I've seen BOTH sides of growing up all over the U.S.): Homeschooling.

Knock it all you want, but a good set of parents are leaps and bounds better for the Free Will and critical-thinking in development of a youth than some institution which waters down every person as a name on a roster which adds to their funding and budget.

The best way to destroy something pure and simple (such as the truth of history) is to institutionalize it (liberal or conservative agendas aside; they BOTH f*ck up the real picture).

Stop fighting over crumbs and declare yourselves Americans, not liberal or conservative, not Republican or Democrat, not left or right. Want to stay divided over the small stuff? Go right ahead. I say focus on the really big problems first and work our way down as adults, not as squabbling hens pecking at each other over feed.

Question EVERYTHING. Accept nothing at face value.

Kyro, here's the problem with this libertarian mindset; it's archaic.

You're right about the parties. They are right-wing and ultra-right-wing. We need a party of the people, of the worker to take power. That's all I have to say about that.

Now homeschooling? Seriously? Unless your parents are board certified teachers, they are in no way, shape, or form in a better position to be academic instructors the way a teacher is. But here's the catch, they are in a FAR better place to be MORAL instructors than a public school teacher. Which is why you should learn natural selection, the big bang, Jefferson and Lenin at school, and then if your parents are sufficiently hick enough they can tell you it's bullshit. Point being school should teach the facts, it's up to the parents to indoctrinate morals. Homeschooling is not a viable option for many, many reasons and I'm not going to list them all because that would be stupid.

Libertarians have this ass-backwards view of being "mountain-men" or "pioneers" or to be honest I'm not sure what goes on in their heads most of the time, but here's why Libertarianism is dead; It's not 1800 anymore! The way some Libertarians talk you'd think that the Union army was coming to confiscate their land, as ordered by Andrew Jackson. If Libertarians had their way there'd be NO public services because they'd throw out regulations as opposed to "being bogged down in bureaucracy". To hear a Libertarian speak it's as if they'd want to turn back the hands of time to 1776, and as novel as that sounds it really ignores a lot of the more pressing, modern issues faced in the United States today.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure you will.

[Pizdzius]

This is the main problem. One state shouldn't be capable of directing other states to the bathroom of a 7/11, let alone imposing their beliefs on others.

Well, my apologies then, I didn't know about that one thing, my bad.

I don't think Poland is a country of freedom, but in my opinion it's more free than Sweden. Sweden terrifies me in many ways, while Poland just starts to creep me out :P
We have written in our Constitution that we're a nation of Christ. So Catholics are default here :P And basically, we do have MANY schools where teachers are Fathers and Sisters who won't allow the kids to even walk around the city; they live in the monasteries that act like schools. They teach them history, biology, barh, even sexual education, in their own ways. And somehow, those kids aren't crooked and still can have different opinion than the teachers. They're not beaten up for that.

But yeah, I get your points, it's just that I want to explain it doesn't always mean a sect full of drones.


btw. I'm for Monarchy. This shit was good in Medieval Poland :P yay.

[Kyrottimus]

Kyro, here's the problem with this libertarian mindset; it's archaic.

There is no expiration date on free will.



You're right about the parties. They are right-wing and ultra-right-wing. We need a party of the people, of the worker to take power. That's all I have to say about that.

What we need are fewer busy-bodies trying to tell others how to live their lives.

I'll live how I want, and I'll let others live the way they want with equal respect to each other's rights to life, property and prosperity, equal across all races, genders and what-have-you.

Libertarianism harkens back and is in sync with the very essences of many dynamics of what it means to be self-actualized, free-thinking individuals. A lot of it stems from Common Law, from which all Contract Law and Criminal Law is derived.

1. Do everything which you have agreed to do.
2. Do not encroach upon the rights of another.

Simple concept. If, say, for example someone wanted to figure out some information for themselves, that is their right to do so. If someone tries to squash that effort, they are basically infringing upon their rights. Public school or not.

It's not an archaic concept, it is the basis of all things good and decent which result from our humanity.

But the problems arise the moment someone tries to push their agenda upon me or others like me who want to live life without stepping on another, but without being stepped on by another.


Now homeschooling? Seriously? Unless your parents are board certified teachers, they are in no way, shape, or form in a better position to be academic instructors the way a teacher is.

Don't be so miopic; it's not an absolute of one or another. There are plenty of areas of in-between where the kids spend 3-4 days at public or private school then have lessons at home with their parents.

The parents can follow approved cirriculum and if they are good parents they'll instill a desire for the child to search information for themselves instead of being spoon-fed it.

Also, there are private schools and so forth and options are necessary to avoid a child's mind growing stagnant, be it from state-sponsored public "education" or dogmatic preaching from some clergy.


But here's the catch, they are in a FAR better place to be MORAL instructors than a public school teacher. Which is why you should learn natural selection, the big bang, Jefferson and Lenin at school, and then if your parents are sufficiently hick enough they can tell you it's bullshit.

If the kid had any brains at all he/she would question everything equally; Santa Clause, Darwin vs. Wallace as well as Big Bang, Chaos Theory and historical figures. Lenin? Sure they'd be free to study that genocidal megalomaniac who was Stalin's single-greatest influence (for those who didn't know, Stalin purged more people than the Nazi's in WWII, and Mao one-upped him and eradicated 80 million human lives in under 20 years).

So yeah, I think it is important to inform and educate on *all* characteristics of a historical figure; not just quotes and talking points, but their actions as well.

I like Thomas Jefferson, but as an example I would have opposed him 100% during the Whiskey Rebellion.

Point is if we had people who learned how to critically think and think for themselves at an early age, propaganda being trumped in public-school format wouldn't adhere to the minds of already-developed individuals (instead of robots).


Point being school should teach the facts, it's up to the parents to indoctrinate morals. Homeschooling is not a viable option for many, many reasons and I'm not going to list them all because that would be stupid.

I agree, but not just a selected sample of the facts, but also a list of sources and methods by which they can further investigate any given topic so they can decide for themselves.


Libertarians have this ass-backwards view of being "mountain-men" or "pioneers" or to be honest I'm not sure what goes on in their heads most of the time, but here's why Libertarianism is dead;

Ahh yes, the Ad Hominem approach. Here it comes


It's not 1800 anymore! The way some Libertarians talk you'd think that the Union army was coming to confiscate their land, as ordered by Andrew Jackson.

So because some of them say some crazy things, they must all be crazy...I follow you so far... By the way, ever heard of Eminant Domain?

And Andrew Jackson, like many historical figures, had a good side and a bad one: The Good - He kept the corruptive bankers and banking interests from wresting control away from the economy of the people with their fascism. The Bad - The Trail of Tears. Being 1/8 of Eastern Cherokee (the ones who fought back instead of walked to Oklahoma with up to 50% casulaties) I guess one *might* say I have an ancestral obligation to hate that man.


If Libertarians had their way there'd be NO public services because they'd throw out regulations as opposed to "being bogged down in bureaucracy".

You're mis-informed. If *TRUE* Libertarians had their way, there would be plenty of public services; but they would be optional to all to pay into and receive their benefits.

You know, the crux of the whole "Freedom to choose" concept.


To hear a Libertarian speak it's as if they'd want to turn back the hands of time to 1776, and as novel as that sounds it really ignores a lot of the more pressing, modern issues faced in the United States today.

To the foundational approach of a Constitutional Republic, yes. But it wasn't perfect back then, there were Amendments required and some far later than should have been added.

Some were wrong and some weren't even legitimately ratified. Point being, a true Libertarian differs from a Constitutionalist (which sounds more like the type of person you've been describing)...in that Libertarianism existed long before there was even a word for it.

It is rooted Nature's Law and that sense of defiance in the face of tyranny / fascism comes from the same bolt of metaphoric cloth.


Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure you will.

No way to correct an opinion, as they are all different. There would be no debates at all if everyone believed everything and saw everything from an identical perspective.

The means by which we expand our horizons is to listen to the viewpoints of others instead of snuffing them out before they can be heard. In a truly free society, all opinions should be respected even if they seem "backwards" and "crazy" to some.

"I may not agree with what you say, but I shall defend unto my death your right to say it." -- Voltaire

Bet that quote sticks in some people's craw (<--- hick phrase!! o noes!!!), but meh..

But what do I know? I'm just a hick living in the mountains with too many guns.

[backe]

Ahhh, Texas...

Its hard not to love a state that executes the mentally handicapped. Not to mention, its residents elected this guy as their governor...twice!

http://www.endevil.com/images/George_Bush.jpg


edit:
This is the main problem. One state shouldn't be capable of directing other states to the bathroom of a 7/11, let alone imposing their beliefs on others.
+1 interwebs for you!

[Llayne]

I wish we would have held them to their word when they said they were going to secede.

Please Texas?

[veluchami]

btw. I'm for Monarchy. This shit was good in Medieval Poland :P yay.

You would make a good Texan xD j/k

[DragoonEnNoir]

Religion-heavy frameworks don't give families an option to choose whether to be religious or not. Children and families would most likely be isolated from other people if they aren't religious but live in a religion-heavy context.

Peer pressure, bullying, and so on.


In discussing history, it isn't a question of whether the content is 'religion-heavy' or not. The question is; what actually happened and why in any given time period.

In looking at events pre-modern era, there is an attempt to remove 'religious' elements from them. This is anachronistic. If we're looking at a period in time when people lived much more closely with their faith, then to understand THEM, we also need to look at their faith.

We can't understand the past if we remove elements we are uncomfortable with. Both the attempt to remove religion from history and the attempt to make it entirely faith based are misguided.

[DragoonEnNoir]

The irony is that this state board of education is changing things to preach the wonders of the free market before going to cash their paychecks signed by the government.

Say no to socialism! (http://i.imgur.com/590Ev.png)

Neither the Free Market nor Socialism have been an answer to man's aspirations for equality, justice or peace though.

Every socio-economic system we have ever created has been flawed.


I think it's because they all involve that flawed parasitic organism... "mankind".

[Vythica]

In discussing history, it isn't a question of whether the content is 'religion-heavy' or not. The question is; what actually happened and why in any given time period.

In looking at events pre-modern era, there is an attempt to remove 'religious' elements from them. This is anachronistic. If we're looking at a period in time when people lived much more closely with their faith, then to understand THEM, we also need to look at their faith.

We can't understand the past if we remove elements we are uncomfortable with. Both the attempt to remove religion from history and the attempt to make it entirely faith based are misguided.

You're absolutely right about how religion should be presented in an historical context. The problem is it isn't done that way.

It's done in more like a "God is an accompanying lesson" to the history as opposed to a "this is a people, these were their beliefs" sort of fashion. The people that wrote the founding documents of this country were "heavily influenced by their faith" totally leaving out men like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson. It's just fucking ridiculous to be perfectly honest.

[DragoonEnNoir]

You're absolutely right about how religion should be presented in an historical context. The problem is it isn't done that way.

It's done in more like a "God is an accompanying lesson" to the history as opposed to a "this is a people, these were their beliefs" sort of fashion. The people that wrote the founding documents of this country were "heavily influenced by their faith" totally leaving out men like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson. It's just fucking ridiculous to be perfectly honest.

I've gotta ask though; are you being fair to both sides in this?

Is it really "God is an accompanying lesson", or is that a preconception or stereotype of the position of Christian conservatives?

I think it's interesting that while Jefferson was not a 'Christian' (in the traditional sense), he was 'heavily influenced by his faith'. I think his creation of his own version of the Bible would be a testament to that. To me, this points to just how much greater the role of faith/belief was in most people's lives in centuries past.

As to Locke, I'm more a fan of Rousseau myself... and I'm not talking about the characters from Lost. ;)

[Vythica]

My apologies, there was a typo that changed the context of what I was talking about. Amend that to "God AS an accompanying lesson."

Also what I meant was that instead of saying "these men were heavily influenced by their beliefs" it is turned into "the US was founded on these beliefs". Also, men like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson are being removed and having their roles played down to suit the conservative ideology.

[DragoonEnNoir]

My apologies, there was a typo that changed the context of what I was talking about. Amend that to "God AS an accompanying lesson."

Also what I meant was that instead of saying "these men were heavily influenced by their beliefs" it is turned into "the US was founded on these beliefs". Also, men like John Locke and Thomas Jefferson are being removed and having their roles played down to suit the conservative ideology.

I think this is where a 'good history teacher' needs to come in.

All history is to some degree biased. A 'good' teacher can use this to bring out interest, engagement... and sometimes righteous anger in their students. All excellent fo breaking people out of their apathy :ranting:

There is a 'liberal ideology' as well though, and I would critique both ends of this spectrum. The idea that faith was a purely negative or absent element in the founding of America is also false.


Besides that though... where did the idea that something taught in school will change student thinking come from? This is true only if parents are silent at home. We cannot blame society and schools if it is WE who have have given up all role in our children's education. Parents should be discussing religion, race, poverty, politics and other 'touchy' matters with their children.

This will help them see how human, messed up and fallible WE are huahahahaha.