NGD please read [Archive] - Champions of Regnum

_Nel_

07-18-2010, 11:31 PM

Wth Lvl 16 do you see what youre saying? On lvl 16 people are (,,,) off and get lvl 17 in like 10 secs you dont need good armor on that lvl?

A mage level 50 can still wear this uber-overpowered lvl 16 tunic.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9066/lighrtunic.jpg

This is being fixed tho.

What is the most OP?
"the only non epic boss drop worth using...." (Satarco's sword) with broken damage or a low level tunic with high +CS/AS and high evade chance?

In fact, I don't care if Satarco's sword is given to Ignis and Alsius. All I want is to stop this stupid idea that says Satarco's sword is OP and unfair for other realms.

Mbwana

07-18-2010, 11:38 PM

...
What about that goat quest tunic what is Very Good to every physical. It was dropped by some warelolf boss. Still low level but i like to see it for same reason as ignis one. Smaller dot's mmm...

its not a quest tunic but a mini boss drop(?) :p you go find Olumar(werewolf champion), kill him and pray for a drop (which is lvl 19)

no quest involved

Torin_Ironfist

07-18-2010, 11:43 PM

A mage level 50 can still wear this uber-overpowered lvl 16 tunic.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9066/lighrtunic.jpg

What is the most OP?
"the only non epic boss drop worth using...." (Satarco's sword) with broken damage or a low level tunic with high +CS/AS and high evade chance?

In fact, I don't care if Satarco's sword is given to Ignis and Alsius. All I want is to stop this stupid idea that says Satarco's sword is OP and unfair for other realms.

As a player with a level 41 Warrior, the Light Armor is really the only armor worth using since Warrior armor stops at level 20 or something.

Minorian

07-18-2010, 11:57 PM

Dear God, the armor difference outruns the cs bonus. You can actually see an noticeable increase of damage by about 75 (Me and friend tested).

What is the most OP?
"the only non epic boss drop worth using...." (Satarco's sword) with broken damage or a low level tunic with high +CS/AS and high evade chance

ummm, it is the only non epic boss drop worth using. Maybe learn what the other realms have first? We have Graj's staff lvl 40 with 5% resist fire, Kron's ring which is broken and does nothing. Alsius has Aysor ammu, but since theres like 3 ice attacks in the game, whats the point?

And broken damage? Are you high? Im sure if it was broken people wouldn't use it..... And while you argue that the min damage sucks, the max damage is awesome, and I can't imagine the adrenaline rush of hitting like 1.8k sc's.

And to answer the non OP argument, it's not OP, it's only OP when compared to the other realms bosses.

Study that last post, because from everything I've seen you post (on this subject) you seem to compare Satarco's sword against a regular (and quite good) weapon, whereas it is INSANELY OP COMPARED TO THE SHIT IGNIS/ALSIUS HAS.

Try to be less bias.

Mattdoesrock

07-19-2010, 12:04 AM

Try to be less bias.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6509/potkettleblack.jpg

_Nel_

07-19-2010, 12:31 AM

ummm, it is the only non epic boss drop worth using.
I can assure you, it's not.

And broken damage? Are you high? Im sure if it was broken people wouldn't use it.....
Don't be stupid, I gave you a video to see by yourself how it sucks.

And while you argue that the min damage sucks, the max damage is awesome, and I can't imagine the adrenaline rush of hitting like 1.8k sc's.
1600 max (without onslaught stack). Any other barb weapon can do the same damage, without doing those crappy damage at min.

And to answer the non OP argument, it's not OP, it's only OP when compared to the other realms bosses.
Comparison between non-OP items with non-OP items... what's is your point?

Study that last post, because from everything I've seen you post (on this subject) you seem to compare Satarco's sword against a regular (and quite good) weapon, whereas it is INSANELY OP COMPARED TO THE SHIT IGNIS/ALSIUS HAS.
I compared it to a store-bought weapon that anyone can get.

Try to be less bias.
And now, how am I?

Godot

07-19-2010, 12:54 AM

In fact, I don't care if Satarco's sword is given to Ignis and Alsius. All I want is to stop this stupid idea that says Satarco's sword is OP and unfair for other realms.

lol, we've been trying to tell you guys that about RoL's for a long time.
They just arent that great, but its a non stop bitchfest in complaint/suggestion/balance boards about just this type of thing. (btw, that lvl 16 tunic isnt OP)

lets not keep beating this subject to death.
its almost as tired as the realm balance issue.
/me thinks this thread is going to turn ugly soon.

Minorian

07-19-2010, 02:01 AM

I can assure you, it's not.
THAN GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. IM IN THE OTHER REALMS, I KNOW WHAT I HAVE. GUESS WHAT? ITS SHIT.

Don't be stupid, I gave you a video to see by yourself how it sucks.
do you have link? I must have missed it :/ And it's not as broken as Kron's ring (does nothing at all)

1600 max (without onslaught stack). Any other barb weapon can do the same damage, without doing those crappy damage at min.
Normally my conj (without buffs gets hit for about 1.2-1.4. Meh, maybe Im just wierd

Comparison between non-OP items with non-OP items... what's is your point?
I guess I didn't explain well enough. Compared to some good items it is not OP, but when measured in the fact that other realm bosses (non-epic) drop shit, it's OP.

I compared it to a store-bought weapon that anyone can get.
The store bought was more consistent, but if I remember correctly the sword hit much higher, when it hit high. And maybe I just play the game for kicks and just wanna see a really high hit?

And now, how am I?
You refuse to see (despite my best attempts) to see what it looks like from the point view of your punching bags.

please, answer my questions/statements head on.

linearguild

07-19-2010, 02:10 AM

Max damage isn't everything. Look at damage range, Satarco's sword has 400 - 270 = 130, this brings down its average damage compared to weapons with lower max but tighter range. Sure, it hits high once in a while (adding inches to your e-penis, woohoo), but it's equally likely to hit low, and in the long run it averages worse than that storebought axe.

_Nel_

07-19-2010, 02:52 AM

THAN GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE. IM IN THE OTHER REALMS, I KNOW WHAT I HAVE. GUESS WHAT? ITS SHIT.

do you have link? I must have missed it :/ And it's not as broken as Kron's ring (does nothing at all)

You wrote a post in this topic, I assume you've read my post:
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=1084301

Arxel (http://regnum.wikia.com/wiki/Arxel) in Ignis (samal merchant) and Rotaren (http://regnum.wikia.com/wiki/Rotaren) in Alsius (aggers merchant) are selling this 2H axe that does better damage than Satarco's sword.
Satarco's sword isn't worth using unless you have not 477k gold to spend in a good weapon.

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8189/ignisarxel.png (http://img842.imageshack.us/i/ignisarxel.png/)

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/3993/alsiusrotaren.png (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/alsiusrotaren.png/)

Normally my conj (without buffs gets hit for about 1.2-1.4. Meh, maybe Im just wierd
Once, I did 2122 on Roxy and 3696 on Evendim, both with my axe. It mainly depends on how many onslaught are stacked before you cast your SC5. Every Ignis barbs know that.

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6562/screenshot2010063022285.jpg (http://img835.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010063022285.jpg/)
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8341/screenshot2010070101310.jpg (http://img831.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010070101310.jpg/)

I guess I didn't explain well enough. Compared to some good items it is not OP, but when measured in the fact that other realm bosses (non-epic) drop shit, it's OP.

So, Gorlack's bow is OP compared to Punzaz' bow, and it's not fair.

http://www.regnumonline.com.br/images/stories/robrasil/bosses/alsius/gorlak-gryphonite-long-bow.png

http://www.regnumonline.com.br/images/stories/robrasil/bosses/syrtis/punzaz-bow.png

Personally, I'm convinced no one cares of items that are worse than a merchant one.

The store bought was more consistent, but if I remember correctly the sword hit much higher, when it hit high. And maybe I just play the game for kicks and just wanna see a really high hit?
You just saw several stacked onslaught.

You refuse to see (despite my best attempts) to see what it looks like from the point view of your punching bags.
I know your point of view, but debating your population problem is not the point of this topic. Don't get all mixed.

ncvr

07-19-2010, 08:15 AM

I can assure you, it's not.
Balance is decided from a lvl 50 point of view. No exceptions.

When considering item balance, we consider how much the item is worth to a lvl 50. That rules out the drops of all champions and lvl 40 legendaries. That leaves us with Krontaron's ring, Aysor's amulet and Satarco's sword. The light tunic and armour are not counted here because they are not boss drops, but quest items.

Aysor's amulet: 25% cold resist - it's useless. It will protect you from 1/3 of arcane strike's dmg, winter stroke (which isn't used for dmg), and a few warlock DoTs which do terrible dmg to begin with. There is no reason to use it.

Krontaron's ring: inferior to the blacksmith and lightning rings because it does not do elemental dmg, and does not have an AS bonus. Inferior to DS rings because of the dmg, unless used by a barb. In theory, at least. Because it seems to be broken.

Satarco's sword: Total dmg, adding str, is around 307 - 437. That mean its average dmg is 372. Average is slightly higher than storeboughts, but it does have the chance to spike every once in a while. This is good because PvP is NOT determined by predictability. If you can get an unexpectedly high hit, it's much better than if you just do the same flat dmg over and over, in a group fight. If you can spike your dmg, it is better than having just a high avg, even if that high avg is higher than your weapon's avg, and lets not forget the possibility that you could get lucky. But it doesn't even need that, because there is actually a reason to use Satarco's sword over a storebought sword (the same, or better than, dps wise), whereas there is no point in using Kron or Aysor's jewelery over quest items.

UmarilsStillHere

07-19-2010, 10:02 AM

Have it, I assure you, its really not that great, Satarcos damage range is just to wide to consistantly hit high.

Minorian

07-19-2010, 11:20 AM

Balance is decided from a lvl 50 point of view. No exceptions.

When considering item balance, we consider how much the item is worth to a lvl 50. That rules out the drops of all champions and lvl 40 legendaries. That leaves us with Krontaron's ring, Aysor's amulet and Satarco's sword. The light tunic and armour are not counted here because they are not boss drops, but quest items.

Aysor's amulet: 25% cold resist - it's useless. It will protect you from 1/3 of arcane strike's dmg, winter stroke (which isn't used for dmg), and a few warlock DoTs which do terrible dmg to begin with. There is no reason to use it.

Krontaron's ring: inferior to the blacksmith and lightning rings because it does not do elemental dmg, and does not have an AS bonus. Inferior to DS rings because of the dmg, unless used by a barb. In theory, at least. Because it seems to be broken.

Satarco's sword: Total dmg, adding str, is around 307 - 437. That mean its average dmg is 372. Average is slightly higher than storeboughts, but it does have the chance to spike every once in a while. This is good because PvP is NOT determined by predictability. If you can get an unexpectedly high hit, it's much better than if you just do the same flat dmg over and over, in a group fight. If you can spike your dmg, it is better than having just a high avg, even if that high avg is higher than your weapon's avg, and lets not forget the possibility that you could get lucky. But it doesn't even need that, because there is actually a reason to use Satarco's sword over a storebought sword (the same, or better than, dps wise), whereas there is no point in using Kron or Aysor's jewelery over quest items.

Someone said it properly, thats essentially what I've been trying to say but failing at it -.-

Have it, I assure you, its really not that great, Satarcos damage range is just to wide to consistantly hit high.

But In Ignis (at least) getting a spec great claymore that isn't a useless bonus is quite hard (from what I hear), and easily being able to get one very like it from a boss would be very nice.

_Nel_

07-19-2010, 11:23 AM

...bla-bla-bla...

I repeat myself again, damage of Satarco's sword is broken and not reliable. How many times I'll need to say before you understand.

There is no point to use Satarco's sword, a store-bought weapon is better.

UmarilsStillHere

07-19-2010, 11:23 AM

Satarco is 'easy' to get because there are so many still hanging around from when he dropped every time, nowadays its quite hard to get a Satarco sword from Satarco, so in time It will probably become more rare.

bois

07-19-2010, 01:23 PM

This whole thread is much ado about nothing. What are those mentioned gears going to do?
None of them are going to provide any player that supreme advantage and as far as I am concerned, are only souvenir pieces. As for every other piece of jewellery, are they really a replacement for skill, experience , setups and luck as designated and dispensed by the server?

I mean really, are we not really getting carried away here? Is any singular item so OP as to crave it so? As far as I know it is the combination of weapon, rings, amulet, armour, opponent, luck, setup and experience that determines the victor in battle. To suggest that any one item tips the scale so much is a bit sensationalist in my view.

Is the problem really the Satarco sword or the RoLs or the +CS tunics?

The problem lies in the base formula NGD used when formulating all these drops and its notion of balance. Every realm should have had the base weapon or armour with the same modifier and the difference would be the elemental damage that it resisted or delivered. Every other ring or amulet would also be able to be found in all realms.
In addition to this, NGD should have provided a communal drop area (similar to the centre island) where certain quests could have been completed by any member of any realm there. This communal area would have a few bosses that drop and also quests that could be completed to get specific drops.Obviously the drops would be available to any realm. On this island you could even setup duel arenas (a hidden island already has this) where 2 realm opponents could duel and actually place an ante in the ring where winner takes all.

Heck even a quest to duel an opponent there. A side quest mind you.

Why not go even further? Drop a castle there that low level players can fight over to go after a boss that spawns in there. The boss drops a special item that has a level cap.

Point is this: NGD had many options to take this different directions. They eventually chose the unified jewellery method via quest. This may actually be more effective than getting any weapon or armour. My only prayer is that this quest does not involve invasions (sinking feeling it does) If it does, rack up another semi fail for NGD.

Regards
Artec

Shwish

07-19-2010, 01:32 PM

why are there two threads with the same people arguing about the same thing? the fact of the matter is, when it comes to finding a good weapon, barbarians got the short end of the stick, which is why satarcos sword is so appealing to alot of barbarians from alsius/ignis.

anyway since this thread is full of barbs wailing at one another... im selling a decent 2 handed lvl50 spec spear with a +10 blunt damage bonus. chat me ingame if you interested in it.

Dannboy

07-19-2010, 02:01 PM

_Nel_

07-19-2010, 02:18 PM

the fact of the matter is, when it comes to finding a good weapon, barbarians got the short end of the stick, which is why satarcos sword is so appealing to alot of barbarians from alsius/ignis.

Please, stop striking the same wrong reasoning. The short end of the stick to find a good barb weapon is to buy it at a merchant. I showed you who they are in each realm:
> http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?p=1085049

Buying a store-bought weapon is far far far easier than dropping a Satarco's sword.

Shwish

07-19-2010, 02:30 PM

Please, stop striking the same wrong reasoning. The short end of the stick to find a good barb weapon is to buy it at a merchant. I showed you who they are in each realm:

Thats my point exactly. the short end of the stick is that every other class can acquire a good epic/magical weapon by spending a couple of xim. you might have to do it a few times but you would eventually get a good one that you could use. why should barbarians settle for store-bought weapons. would you not want that same axe with a +5% attack/cast speed and +13 blunt damage bonus and still have the ability to socket it?

_Nel_

07-19-2010, 02:53 PM

Oops my bad. I didn't check what means "the short end of the stick" before answering, I mistook it for "the shortest way". :cuac:

Concerning 2H weapons in lucky box, their low drop rate is another problem. But I agree with you: as a barb, you should be able to choose between 2H or 1H weapon.

eerO

07-19-2010, 09:41 PM

Lol. Funny Thread.

All I can say is: if you want the light armour, switch to Ignis, if you want Satarcos sword, switch to Syrtis and if you want shitloads of quests switch to Alsius.

But now that every realm has access to almost everything Syrtis will grow even more, but meh, thats not new.

ncvr

07-20-2010, 06:25 AM

I repeat myself again, damage of Satarco's sword is broken and not reliable. How many times I'll need to say before you understand.

There is no point to use Satarco's sword, a store-bought weapon is better.
Stop looking at it in black and white, actually read my post, and pay attention to the points I'm trying to bring across.

Tactically, having unpredictable dmg is GOOD. Got it now? Making someone die a horribly slow, painful death while a healer heals them back up every so often is not going to get you anywhere. Then again, you're Syrtis, so you wouldn't really need that.

Minorian

07-20-2010, 11:51 AM

Then again, you're Syrtis, so you wouldn't really need that.

They just don't/refuse to understand our pains.
:beerchug:

_Nel_

07-20-2010, 12:21 PM

Stop looking at it in black and white, actually read my post, and pay attention to the points I'm trying to bring across.

Tactically, having unpredictable dmg is GOOD. Got it now? Making someone die a horribly slow, painful death while a healer heals them back up every so often is not going to get you anywhere. Then again, you're Syrtis, so you wouldn't really need that.

So, I will explain you more precisely.

With my axe I'm sure I can do 1400 with SC5 = a bit less than 1/2 total hp of a mage. I'm sure I can kill it in one shot.
If he has a bit more than 1/2 total hp, I'll cast onsl(4) and will do 1650 damage at min.

So, if a mage has more than 1/2hp bar, I'll think before rushing. What with Satarco's sword ? (1150 at min with SC5)

ncvr

07-20-2010, 12:25 PM

So, I will explain you more precisely.

With my axe I'm sure I can do 1400 with SC5 = a bit less than 1/2 total hp of a mage. I'm sure I can kill it in one shot.
If he has a bit more than 1/2 total hp, I'll cast onsl(4) and will do 1650 damage at min.

So, if a mage has more than 1/2hp bar, I'll think before rushing. What with Satarco's sword ? (1150 at min with SC5)
Switch weapons.

Satarco's sword is still useful for something. The same cannot be said for other boss drops - which is all I'm trying to argue here. Generally, in a fort war, you'll be using it, switching weapons for situations like that, no different to switching to spear to catch runners, etc.

_Nel_

07-20-2010, 12:33 PM

Switch weapons.

Satarco's sword is still useful for something. The same cannot be said for other boss drops - which is all I'm trying to argue here. Generally, in a fort war, you'll be using it, switching weapons for situations like that, no different to switching to spear to catch runners, etc.

Uh?
This kind of situation happens everytime. Then I switched definitively to the axe. :biggrin:

Minorian

07-20-2010, 02:34 PM

.....

Would you please listen for a second?

COMPARED TO THE FACT THAT THE OTHER REAMS NON-EPIC BOSSES DROPS AREN'T EVEN WORTH 1 GOLD, SATARCO'S SWORD IS FANTASTIC.

WHILE IT MAY NOT BE MAKE YOU A "SUPER BARB" IT IS BETTER THAN A BROKEN RING AND A AMMU THAT AFFECTS 3 SPELLS.

FOR GOD'S SAKES READ OUR ARGUMENTS.

_Nel_

07-20-2010, 02:59 PM

I have read them. Krontaron, Aysor and Satarco drop useless items.

Minorian

07-20-2010, 03:09 PM

Satarco drop useless items.

OMG NO. People use it. People in Ignis/Alsius would use it. No one at all uses Kron/Aysor stuff. NO ONE.

_Nel_

07-20-2010, 03:29 PM

They use it because they are like you.

Dude 1: wut wut wut!!!1
Dude 1: look at that my friend!
Dude 2: what?
Dude 1: 400+27+5str!!!11
Dude 1: woooot!!
Dude 2: ?
Dude 1: mine is bigger than yours!!! woooot!!
Dude 2: -_-"

They didn't even test it in the long run and are just blinded by its hypothetical max damage.

And because there is a very tiny group of people who cry and yell so loud that Satarco's sword is OP without really having tested it (mainly opposing realms). That now, a lot of people believes this sword is OP while it's not true.

Minorian

07-20-2010, 03:41 PM

But in war, you often only get one hit in. In that case what does consistency matter? If you're in Syrtis odds are the zerg behind you will clean up whatever you didn't do, so in that kind of situation the max damage is great just for laughs.

DkySven

07-20-2010, 03:43 PM

By the way, next time you make such a thread, if you want it to be read by developers, I'd pick a title that covers the content.

eerO

07-20-2010, 06:25 PM

This thread is turning rediculous.

Dunno if youre talking bout Horus or Ra, i dont care anyway.
I can only talk about Horus / Ignis.

So I can definitely say that almost nobody in Ignis, Horus would use the Satarco sword... why should they? Most of our barbs have the daen sword, and the ones who dont have a daen sword have a kickass axe or sword.

And again I say, if you want that stupid sword, switch to syrtis.

Now stop argueing cause this thread is getting nowhere.

VandaMan

07-20-2010, 06:29 PM

Most of our barbs have the daen sword

O.o I think there are only 2 daen swords... but I guess that might be most of our barbs xD

Tigerious

07-20-2010, 07:10 PM

I follow nel statement, there is many weapons better than satarco's sword, and now the +5 str is still useless so it's better to switch to a pure bonus damages sword/axe. Nel already gave me a dragon axe that do more damages than satarco's sword.

The balance should be think about some situation like thoses examples :

With attack speed, a barb can kick/feint faster than another.
With attack speed on many warriors, a door go down faster.
With cast speed spells come faster before you can do anything (like instant sultar, instant cremation ...)

Now tell me what really do a satarco sword ?

eerO

07-20-2010, 09:14 PM

O.o I think there are only 2 daen swords... but I guess that might be most of our barbs xD

Well, i know like 4 or 5 barbs which have one.

Minorian

07-20-2010, 10:00 PM

Well, i know like 4 or 5 barbs which have one.

Who are these barbs? I dont know of very many....

ncvr

07-21-2010, 06:06 AM

Uh?
This kind of situation happens everytime. Then I switched definitively to the axe. :biggrin:
Okay Nel, I looked at the screenshot one more time.

It would seem that the minimum dmg on the axe does - wait for it - ONE more dmg than Satarco's sword. ONE. That's about TWO dmg difference in an SC. Why the fuck does that matter? And that's just an added bonus. In a massive war, lots of dmg and healing thrown around etc, it's not consistency which kills. It's when you get a sudden high hit which gets conjus off balance that you can get an opportunity to kill.

EDIT: sorry, maths fail. Turns out that the minimum dmg on both weapons is exactly the same. So now I bring up the point again...why use the storebought over a satarco sword if the minimum dmg is exactly the same, except the satarco's sword max dmg is much, much higher?

Pimousse

07-21-2010, 09:35 AM

I know 3 Daen Rha sword in Ignis Horus. If you saw more barbarbs using it, that's the fact of loan :)

Pwnography

07-21-2010, 11:29 AM

I know 3 Daen Rha sword in Ignis Horus. If you saw more barbarbs using it, that's the fact of loan :)

Pim,Sir kane and i think Wyatt has one,but dont have a lvl 50 barb yet =)

_Nel_

07-21-2010, 12:40 PM

Sorry Necrovarus, your post is a bit confuse. I don't understand it, what screenshot are you talking about and what do you want to prove.

If you talk about the "official" damage displayed on weapon stat, it's irrelevant I already answered to that. I don't know why, but it's wrong, showed by the video. The fact is, when you fight, you do an average of +10 damage with an axe (so, not significant).
And...hmm.. a fight doesn't turn in your favour because of one hypothetical SC would do around +60 damage than another weapon.

It's like Need_More_Invasions' post (#39), he finally admit the battle flow doesn't change and it's just for laughs. But I probably misunderstood.

This thread is turning rediculous.
Since the first post. ^^