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Old 01-14-2008, 06:37 PM   #1
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Default Why NOT Java

Ok, for those of you who don't know, Java isn't a new coffee brand, a car wash or a set of games on your cellphone. It's a programming language (the thing that we use to write programs) which is NOT new at all, but still we hear some flames from time to time.

Programmers and Students of IT and IT-Related careers, tell me why Java isn't good. Tell me why you want to wipe it out of the Earth. Tell me why it drives you insane, is it because of the Object paradigm?

Ok, I understand that knowing just ONE programming language isn't good (in fact, real programmers can learn any new language in a matter of days), but that doesn't make Java so bad...

Is it slow? Well, kind of, but it's good as a data manager frontend, not as a game engine or so. It's meant to be multi-platform and functional, not fast!!!

Sorry... I wanted to make sure that 3 years of java weren't a loss of time on my career...
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
Ok, for those of you who don't know, Java isn't a new coffee brand, a car wash or a set of games on your cellphone. It's a programming language (the thing that we use to write programs) which is NOT new at all, but still we hear some flames from time to time.

Programmers and Students of IT and IT-Related careers, tell me why Java isn't good. Tell me why you want to wipe it out of the Earth. Tell me why it drives you insane, is it because of the Object paradigm?

Ok, I understand that knowing just ONE programming language isn't good (in fact, real programmers can learn any new language in a matter of days), but that doesn't make Java so bad...

Is it slow? Well, kind of, but it's good as a data manager frontend, not as a game engine or so. It's meant to be multi-platform and functional, not fast!!!

Sorry... I wanted to make sure that 3 years of java weren't a loss of time on my career...
Java should be banned of the world for the same reason pants were.


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Nah, I think that java its nice, its just that when someone doesnt like it, he says it, then other guy reads that post, and posts it in another forum, another guy reads it and comments that in the irc chat, the fact is that around 90% of the people that hate java doesnt know why they hate it, or just they didn't like the sintax in the 10mins they used it.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:52 PM   #3
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Java is a global multi platform language, so its usefull... but something tells me that some1 will write a faster multi platform code soon, cause Java is soooo slow...
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:52 PM   #4
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Java only had a reason in the past, that wasn't free. Now for bad luck, I don't any reason to not be used.

And what about python + QT4/GTK/WxWindow

Or QT4/GTK/WxWIndow + C++ ?
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elendriel
Java only had a reason in the past, that wasn't free. Now for bad luck, I don't any reason to not be used.

And what about python + QT4/GTK/WxWindow

Or QT4/GTK/WxWIndow + C++ ?

Python is very nice, slower that java, but still nice.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boger
Java is a global multi platform language, so its usefull... but something tells me that some1 will write a faster multi platform code soon, cause Java is soooo slow...
java WAS slowly.. well now is very slow with web application, bad the others kind of problems can be resolved by java. Java could be used in webservers (jsp), apps, db's, use xml documents, very powefull gui's... all that u want

since java 1.6 the apps isnt too slow, there was a big change with this version.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaroth
Python is very nice, slower that java, but still nice.
Java is a precompiled bytecode based language (it means it's not completely compiled, it's interpreted by the JVM), but Python is totally interpreted. That's because it's slow.


Hey, java is not THAT slow when you know how to use it... For instance, don't use Strings to save a file, use a StringBuffer.
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Old 01-14-2008, 07:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xephandor
Java is a precompiled bytecode based language (it means it's not completely compiled, it's interpreted by the JVM), but Python is totally interpreted. That's because it's slow.

Wrong, python is bytecode too.
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Old 01-14-2008, 07:15 PM   #9
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Just found this:


http://www.ferg.org/projects/python_...e-by-side.html
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Old 01-14-2008, 07:34 PM   #10
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Okey, you just opened a big topic right there. I for one hate java, so lets get that straightened right away. Reasons? Too many. My *very first* problem with java was the way memory allocation was being handled. At first I was like "wtf? No pointers?" on to: "No dynamic allocation either???" and off to: "GARBAGE COLLECTOR? dfASDGsgfDGdf".

Anyway, the main problem I have with Java is that it is being taught as a starting language. That really doesn't have to do with the language itself... so much.

Java is an object oriented language. The object oriented paradigm is probably the one that is used in the design & implementation of most applications. However, one really has to start from simple procedural programming, to get an understanding of how data flows through the different program modules, before moving on to structural programming, where one models data in data structures such as lists, queues, trees, graphs and what not, and only after that stage should one be introduced to object oriented design & implementation.

If people try to learn how to efficiently design and implement applications using classes without having the previous paradigms of programming mastered, it is most possible that they will never really completely understand stuff like encapsulation, inheritance, member scope, virtuallity, mutation, overloading (friggin java has a very messed up way to overload operands btw) and all that jazz. All these things are what OOP is really about, and if you don't understand them correctly you will never use them correctly. Even more so, if the language you are using (ie, java) is messing with the way these things work, and does not give the programmer 100% control over these things.

All in all, in my experience, people who learned how to program with java as one of their starting languages ended up being horrible coders.

(needless to say c++ is the way of the true samurai! )

PS: If you are more interested in this matter, I suggest you check this out:
http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/CrossTal...Schonberg.html
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