Article 19 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights

monktbd · 03-01-2010, 05:58 PM

How is article valid here in this or whatever forum on the internet, the article that states the freedom of speech?

Actually it is not at all.

Article 19 grants you the right to voice your opinion through your channels. So you can create your own media to voice your opinion and no one should keep you from doing that.

Quote from Wikipedia:
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

You cannot claim Article 19 if you send a letter to a newspaper and want to get it published (hell they often choose those they like).

You cannot claim Article 19 if you organize and take part in a public demonstration that the mass media will actually do reports on it but you could freely voice your opinion with your demonstration.

For everything that is privately owned you cannot claim Article 19 (or would you allow people to claim Article 19 if they want to come to your home and just shouting their opinion in your living room at any given time of the day?).

I really do not understand why people "on the internet" so often claim that Article in any form of moderation because if it would be valid it would violate Article 17.

Generally i think that of course Article 19 is a very valuable part of the Human Rights and should not be taken lightly. However trying to apply it in the wrong places does exactly that in my opinion.

(Disclaimer: This is a general thread about the Article 19, please leave it at this).

Snoid · 03-01-2010, 06:11 PM

Everyone should read this post carefully.
Not the usual Inn bullshit.

Shiriki · 03-01-2010, 07:32 PM

If we are going to start with articles that aren't respected in the world....

DemonMonger · 03-01-2010, 07:57 PM

Mmmm.... Article 19....

Let's say you do put out your opinion through mass media or that the news covers your issue on their channel. Once media has displayed your topic, those with the most money will be taking parts of your opinion and twisting your ideas to make their own claims. People will believe the claims that they hear the most.

Mmmm... Human rights?

Listen to this... Say I am a devil worshiper and I want to get a job at a bookstore that sells all kinds of books but also bibles. I can get a job at that bookstore or fight with them for not hiring me on grounds that my religion made them not want me, thus forcing them to let me work there. Once I am inside and working I can say that the Bibles in the store give me an uncomfortable work atmosphere and by law have the bookstore remove all bibles. These are my rights, but is justice being served? Is this fair?

We often say that what most people do is what is considered normal...
Most people are cheating on their husbands wives boyfriends or girlfriends, so is that normal? How soon then will it be accepted as normal and be seen as ok? I am sure some of you can already justify times when it is ok.

Point of all this is... Just like in regnum you can never have a system that makes everyone happy 100% of the time or a system that is 100% fair.

Freedom of speech and all that maddness does not exist.
I cannot get on an airplane and shout I HAVE A BOMB....
I cannot walk into a bank and say GIVE ME ALL THE MONEY NOW...
I cannot walk down the street and look at a gay man and say OMG YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL!
I cannot walk up to a police officer and say YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT DISGUST ME
I cannot post stickers on my car that say WE NEED WEED!!!
I cannot wear a shirt saying MY LAST MEAL WAS CRACK COCAINE!

About the freedom of speech and the forums.... You will need to create your own forum before your opinion can be voiced freely. This forums is hosted by NGD's people thus they hold the freedom of speech here.

VandaMan · 03-01-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

I cannot walk down the street and look at a gay man and say OMG YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL!
I cannot walk up to a police officer and say YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT DISGUST ME
I cannot post stickers on my car that say WE NEED WEED!!!
I cannot wear a shirt saying MY LAST MEAL WAS CRACK COCAINE!

hmmm I can.

Shiriki · 03-01-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

We often say that what most people do is what is considered normal...

I say that what most people do is exactly what I shouldn't do

About the freedom of speech, I think it applies (should apply) when it doesn't break any other of the human rights.

terekon · 03-01-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

About the freedom of speech and the forums.... You will need to create your own forum before your opinion can be voiced freely. This forums is hosted by NGD's people thus they hold the freedom of speech here.

The thing about freedom is that you must act free before you can be truly be free. Freedom isnt a state of mind, Its knowing the limits of what you can do before you infringe on another persons rights and exercising it.

For example i can say whatever i choose in this forum, However it being NGDs property they have the right to remove it and ban me if they see fit. The action of me saying that is not illegal and did not prevent anyone from expressing their freedoms, or prevent NGD from protecting their property. But i can say whatever i like and so can you.

If we didnt have the freedom of speech to say whatever we wanted in any place we could then I would get black bagged and removed from the public where i could no longer say whatever i wanted.

I have publicly shamed police to their face. I have stickers that claim cannabis to be a religious herb to be worshiped that is for everyone, and the others could infringe on other ppls basic human right to life which goes against the principles of freedom of speech.

Except the cocaine one, that is funny though...

Godot · 03-01-2010, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terekon

The thing about freedom is that you must act free before you can be truly be free. Freedom isnt a state of mind, Its knowing the limits of what you can do before you infringe on another persons rights and exercising it.

For example i can say whatever i choose in this forum, However it being NGDs property they have the right to remove it and ban me if they see fit. The action of me saying that is not illegal and did not prevent anyone from expressing their freedoms, or prevent NGD from protecting their property. But i can say whatever i like and so can you.

If we didnt have the freedom of speech to say whatever we wanted in any place we could then I would get black bagged and removed from the public where i could no longer say whatever i wanted.

I have publicly shamed police to their face. I have stickers that claim cannabis to be a religious herb to be worshiped that is for everyone, and the others could infringe on other ppls basic human right to life which goes against the principles of freedom of speech.

Except the cocaine one, that is funny though...

well said

+1

ncvr · 03-02-2010, 05:33 AM

All human rights have limits and exceptions, for example you can specify what gender you want when hiring an actor but not for a receptionist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

I cannot get on an airplane and shout I HAVE A BOMB....

Especially not if you want to live.

03-01-2010, 05:58 PM	#1
monktbd Initiate Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Horus - Alsius Posts: 116	Article 19 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights How is article valid here in this or whatever forum on the internet, the article that states the freedom of speech? Actually it is not at all. Article 19 grants you the right to voice your opinion through your channels. So you can create your own media to voice your opinion and no one should keep you from doing that. Quote from Wikipedia: Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. You cannot claim Article 19 if you send a letter to a newspaper and want to get it published (hell they often choose those they like). You cannot claim Article 19 if you organize and take part in a public demonstration that the mass media will actually do reports on it but you could freely voice your opinion with your demonstration. For everything that is privately owned you cannot claim Article 19 (or would you allow people to claim Article 19 if they want to come to your home and just shouting their opinion in your living room at any given time of the day?). I really do not understand why people "on the internet" so often claim that Article in any form of moderation because if it would be valid it would violate Article 17. Generally i think that of course Article 19 is a very valuable part of the Human Rights and should not be taken lightly. However trying to apply it in the wrong places does exactly that in my opinion. (Disclaimer: This is a general thread about the Article 19, please leave it at this). __________________ Maedhros - Conjurer Maedhros Hunter - Hunter Alsius\|Horus - F r o z e n F l a m e

03-01-2010, 06:11 PM	#2
Snoid Master Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Altaruk :) Posts:31,337 Posts: 446	Everyone should read this post carefully. Not the usual Inn bullshit. __________________ I'm an outsider, outside of everything... RAMNA Elegida Miss Ignis 2009 por votación popular

03-01-2010, 07:32 PM	#3
Shiriki Initiate Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: donde nadie me encuentre Posts: 122	If we are going to start with articles that aren't respected in the world.... __________________ ...Shinken-barbarian-ignis ...Gaia is in my mind, and God is in my heart+

03-01-2010, 07:57 PM	#4
DemonMonger Marquis Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Edge of the Abyss Posts: 2,066	Mmmm.... Article 19.... Let's say you do put out your opinion through mass media or that the news covers your issue on their channel. Once media has displayed your topic, those with the most money will be taking parts of your opinion and twisting your ideas to make their own claims. People will believe the claims that they hear the most. Mmmm... Human rights? Listen to this... Say I am a devil worshiper and I want to get a job at a bookstore that sells all kinds of books but also bibles. I can get a job at that bookstore or fight with them for not hiring me on grounds that my religion made them not want me, thus forcing them to let me work there. Once I am inside and working I can say that the Bibles in the store give me an uncomfortable work atmosphere and by law have the bookstore remove all bibles. These are my rights, but is justice being served? Is this fair? We often say that what most people do is what is considered normal... Most people are cheating on their husbands wives boyfriends or girlfriends, so is that normal? How soon then will it be accepted as normal and be seen as ok? I am sure some of you can already justify times when it is ok. Point of all this is... Just like in regnum you can never have a system that makes everyone happy 100% of the time or a system that is 100% fair. Freedom of speech and all that maddness does not exist. I cannot get on an airplane and shout I HAVE A BOMB.... I cannot walk into a bank and say GIVE ME ALL THE MONEY NOW... I cannot walk down the street and look at a gay man and say OMG YOU ARE A HOMOSEXUAL! I cannot walk up to a police officer and say YOU AND YOUR DEPARTMENT DISGUST ME I cannot post stickers on my car that say WE NEED WEED!!! I cannot wear a shirt saying MY LAST MEAL WAS CRACK COCAINE! About the freedom of speech and the forums.... You will need to create your own forum before your opinion can be voiced freely. This forums is hosted by NGD's people thus they hold the freedom of speech here.