A general discussion about clan banks without complaining

Malik2 · 04-09-2010, 12:47 AM

As clan banks have become a regular feature of the regnum clan community.

As they were used to pool resources among members and encouraged teamwork.

As clans, as organizations, have no way to effeciently store items they find.

It would be an excellent idea if the community could take time to reflect how these changes will impact the clan systems as it is now, does it strengthen the clan system or weaken it, how will your clan cope with these changes etc.

It would be nice if we can have this discussion in the open on the general discussion board.

_Arwen_ · 04-09-2010, 01:28 AM

I'll make my first post in defense of NGD and perhaps later I'll post my thoughts on the other side even though most of you will say it anyway.

1) Clan banks clutter up RO's database making maintenance more difficult.
- If every clan has 3 characters for banks (some have more but lets stick with 3 for now) and there are only 20 clans per realm, you have an extra 60 characters in the databases. Add to this each bank containing around 125 - 150 items, now you have 9,000 items to keep track of. All of this adds to the complexity and size of the databases in charge of keeping player info, not to mention it incorrectly inflates the number of characters/accounts on the servers giving NGD bad information which they may need to use correctly plan server hardware upgrades and software changes.

This does not even include clans that had banks and have since died but banks not deleted so these numbers could easily be double what I've calculated.

2) Clan banks can be a cause of dispute with players who donate items then leave the clan.
- I'm not sure if this is a big issue or not, but if someone donates an item to the bank, then is either kicked out of the clan or leaves on their own, their item may now be "lost". Perhaps these players email NGD and now NGD has to deal with an issue with a "system" that they don't endorse causing loss in productivity and time.

3) Probably most importantly is the fact that clan banks kill commerce in the Regnum world.
- This is the reason I feel is the largest driving force behind this change. For better or for worse, clan banks kill the economy in Regnum since you don't need to search for and buy new items when you can just get them from the bank. If NGD intends to add crafting in the near (or distant) future, there needs to be some sort of economy to facilitate the trade of goods created by crafting. Now that there's no place to store your items (beyond a few spots in stashes) you may be forced to sell that new sword you just dropped but have no need for.

However, that being said it's also up to NGD to make it easy for the players to put their items up for sale and so far we have zero support for that. What Regnum needs in order to help its economy grow is some sort of "Auction House" or "Trading Post" to let people place items up for sale/auction and automatically exchange items when a sale is accepted whether or not a user is online. Another thing that is needed is for NGD to fix the return price of items. Currently you only get 10% to 40% of the money back that an item is worth when you sell to a merchant. While this is good because it forces you to try to sell items to other players, I think it would make sense to increase the return rate to 60 or 70 percent since you normally can't sell normal weapons/armor to other players. Until this happens, the RO economy will never flourish and banks will continue to exist in some form.

4) Last but not least, keep in mind its very possible NGD has some Clan enhancements coming in an upcoming release that includes a clan bank and all we have to do is wait patiently.

I hope you all can keep in mind that there are other possible reasons for this change other than to "kill" clan banking.

Sincerely,
Arwen

AariEv · 04-09-2010, 02:30 AM

The problem is that some clans will now start making more accounts for their banks in order to accommodate for the new update. This will clutter the database even further

Revolverxxx · 04-09-2010, 06:55 AM

most of the players dont understand the problems these clan banks had. did you know that the really overburdened characters dont display all the items they are carrying. im talking about a carry weight of 1500+/250 etc.

we had a problem in our clan bank where a player was looking for a specific pauldron he donated a while back. It was never given out so we were definate it was there. One of our clan leaders logged on to the clan bank and looked for it.... couldnt find it. the characters weight was like ~1200/250 (not the exact number but more or less). he relogged onto the character, the weight was now ~1340/250. still no pauldrons. after relogging multiple times (i remember logging off and coming back and they were still busy at it) they eventually found it, i cant remember the exact weight but it was somewhere around the high 2500/250 or more.

my point is that characters are not meant to be overburdened and by storing that much items on one character is pushing the limits of what was originally intended so the response is very unpredictable. This update is good, but it needs counter update to fascilitate some kind of clan storage

Anpu · 04-09-2010, 07:43 AM

There wouldn't be any DB cluttering nor level one chars as improvised banks if NGD first finished with clans before moving to developing other stuff. Now dual wielding has priority over clan systems. They are rushing a lot with game features, leaving them half finished and buggy.

Also, for this year, we can probably forget any kind of clan update, as they announced what they are going to do this year (thread where Kailer explained they won't have time to take a look into Evasion because schedule is busy). If they don't have time for one of the biggest problem in Regnum, which created tons of threads (just like lack of clan banks created tons of level 1 chars), I personally don't expect anything for clan either.

Malik2 · 04-09-2010, 12:14 PM

Aaris is right, where some clans may drop their clan banking, others will end up with multiple lvl 10 or 15 probabaly barbarian banks to hold items, so instead of 3 lvl 1 characters we will be looking at 30 or 40 individual characters to hold all the items.

Arwen makes good points.

Although I also agree with Anpu that if there was some clan enhancement coming we would have been informed.

I know plenty of people who have never tried to sell an item on realm chat becasue they just gave it to the clan, since we can't save for the clan, will this change turn realm chat into more of "lets make a deal" than it already is?

Freduardo · 04-09-2010, 12:36 PM

I've previously contributed quite some items to my former clan's banks. And although I do not want to condemn such behavior per se (the idea behind it is good). It often leads to item hording. Shitloads of useful stuff that isn't being used and just sits there in a lvl 1 character.

I would agree though that something needs to be done. But I'd like to see that something to go more towards a better trading system or auction house than just another way to hamster all kinds of items for a select few people.

Imho.

Groark · 04-09-2010, 12:54 PM

The solution is what Arwen said:
"What Regnum needs in order to help its economy grow is some sort of "Auction House" or "Trading Post" to let people place items up for sale/auction and automatically exchange items when a sale is accepted whether or not a user is online".
There is a game (Runescape) with that buying-selling system and it works perfect.

Greyman_tle · 04-09-2010, 03:39 PM

As I see it NGD - if the OP premise is correct and its a DB issue - have shot themselves in the foot.

Clans improvised a banking system, as there was none availiable - even thou it has been repeatedly asked for.

The clan im in b4 the update allready minimisd the amount stored in the banks to stop the 'disappearing item' problem, but this still OB's the characters.

The most likely outcome will be an increase of bank characters, as that appears to be the only way around the new system.

Assuming this would increase trade is all fine well and good, if we had a trading system.

What a clan wants to do with the items they find...is up to the clan.

slight worry - if it was done to lessen DB load...the system is flawed. It runs along the same lines as...WHY? does the forum go offline when the game servers are being updated...I can only infer that its on the same server...and if its on the same server how much else is?...all the worlds?

Players will find a work around for this that suits the players....this probably wont suit NGD.....hopefully NGD will listen to the players at some point.

Gytha_Ogg · 04-09-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyman_tle

As I see it NGD - if the OP premise is correct and its a DB issue - have shot themselves in the foot.

Clans improvised a banking system, as there was none availiable - even thou it has been repeatedly asked for.

The clan im in b4 the update allready minimisd the amount stored in the banks to stop the 'disappearing item' problem, but this still OB's the characters.

The most likely outcome will be an increase of bank characters, as that appears to be the only way around the new system.

Assuming this would increase trade is all fine well and good, if we had a trading system.

What a clan wants to do with the items they find...is up to the clan.

slight worry - if it was done to lessen DB load...the system is flawed. It runs along the same lines as...WHY? does the forum go offline when the game servers are being updated...I can only infer that its on the same server...and if its on the same server how much else is?...all the worlds?

Players will find a work around for this that suits the players....this probably wont suit NGD.....hopefully NGD will listen to the players at some point.

We did get character stashes, and then account stashes pretty quickly after that, maybe clan stashes are on their way.

Maybe the character item limit was to help with the item duping situation, and just inadvertently broke clan bank characters, and it has nothing to do with clan banks.

Maybe this is an attempt to shake loose some of the dusty old items mouldering away in the bottom of clan mules before they all get dumped into the shiny new clan stashes.

We won't know until we find out.

Players will find workarounds, hawking their wares on realm chat, setting up websites to facilitate trades, and using alts as clan banks. The last is the only one that really breaks the official rules (the others are just inefficient and annoying compared to a true in-game system) - maybe NGD is willing to look the other way until the real thing gets finished, then we'll suddenly see a lot of characters with the last name of 'Bank' running around the wz with really uber items.

04-09-2010, 12:47 AM	#1
Malik2 Initiate Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 219	A general discussion about clan banks without complaining As clan banks have become a regular feature of the regnum clan community. As they were used to pool resources among members and encouraged teamwork. As clans, as organizations, have no way to effeciently store items they find. It would be an excellent idea if the community could take time to reflect how these changes will impact the clan systems as it is now, does it strengthen the clan system or weaken it, how will your clan cope with these changes etc. It would be nice if we can have this discussion in the open on the general discussion board. __________________ Ulixes Wolfhair Hunter of Syrtis...Horus and Ra- The White Company

04-09-2010, 01:28 AM	#2
_Arwen_ Apprentice Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 98	I'll make my first post in defense of NGD and perhaps later I'll post my thoughts on the other side even though most of you will say it anyway. 1) Clan banks clutter up RO's database making maintenance more difficult. - If every clan has 3 characters for banks (some have more but lets stick with 3 for now) and there are only 20 clans per realm, you have an extra 60 characters in the databases. Add to this each bank containing around 125 - 150 items, now you have 9,000 items to keep track of. All of this adds to the complexity and size of the databases in charge of keeping player info, not to mention it incorrectly inflates the number of characters/accounts on the servers giving NGD bad information which they may need to use correctly plan server hardware upgrades and software changes. This does not even include clans that had banks and have since died but banks not deleted so these numbers could easily be double what I've calculated. 2) Clan banks can be a cause of dispute with players who donate items then leave the clan. - I'm not sure if this is a big issue or not, but if someone donates an item to the bank, then is either kicked out of the clan or leaves on their own, their item may now be "lost". Perhaps these players email NGD and now NGD has to deal with an issue with a "system" that they don't endorse causing loss in productivity and time. 3) Probably most importantly is the fact that clan banks kill commerce in the Regnum world. - This is the reason I feel is the largest driving force behind this change. For better or for worse, clan banks kill the economy in Regnum since you don't need to search for and buy new items when you can just get them from the bank. If NGD intends to add crafting in the near (or distant) future, there needs to be some sort of economy to facilitate the trade of goods created by crafting. Now that there's no place to store your items (beyond a few spots in stashes) you may be forced to sell that new sword you just dropped but have no need for. However, that being said it's also up to NGD to make it easy for the players to put their items up for sale and so far we have zero support for that. What Regnum needs in order to help its economy grow is some sort of "Auction House" or "Trading Post" to let people place items up for sale/auction and automatically exchange items when a sale is accepted whether or not a user is online. Another thing that is needed is for NGD to fix the return price of items. Currently you only get 10% to 40% of the money back that an item is worth when you sell to a merchant. While this is good because it forces you to try to sell items to other players, I think it would make sense to increase the return rate to 60 or 70 percent since you normally can't sell normal weapons/armor to other players. Until this happens, the RO economy will never flourish and banks will continue to exist in some form. 4) Last but not least, keep in mind its very possible NGD has some Clan enhancements coming in an upcoming release that includes a clan bank and all we have to do is wait patiently. I hope you all can keep in mind that there are other possible reasons for this change other than to "kill" clan banking. Sincerely, Arwen __________________ Arwen - Level 50 Conjurer \| Uruviel - Level 50 Hunter \| Cheesepuff - Level 50 Marksman Cheeseburger - Level 50 Warlock \| Cheesecake - Level 50 Barb \| Aelean - Level 50 Knight

04-09-2010, 02:30 AM	#3
AariEv Initiate Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: United States Posts: 144	The problem is that some clans will now start making more accounts for their banks in order to accommodate for the new update. This will clutter the database even further __________________ Aari - Aaris'lia - Aasiora ~ I N Q U I S I T I O N ~

04-09-2010, 06:55 AM	#4
Revolverxxx Initiate Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Probably in the bathroom Posts: 139	most of the players dont understand the problems these clan banks had. did you know that the really overburdened characters dont display all the items they are carrying. im talking about a carry weight of 1500+/250 etc. we had a problem in our clan bank where a player was looking for a specific pauldron he donated a while back. It was never given out so we were definate it was there. One of our clan leaders logged on to the clan bank and looked for it.... couldnt find it. the characters weight was like ~1200/250 (not the exact number but more or less). he relogged onto the character, the weight was now ~1340/250. still no pauldrons. after relogging multiple times (i remember logging off and coming back and they were still busy at it) they eventually found it, i cant remember the exact weight but it was somewhere around the high 2500/250 or more. my point is that characters are not meant to be overburdened and by storing that much items on one character is pushing the limits of what was originally intended so the response is very unpredictable. This update is good, but it needs counter update to fascilitate some kind of clan storage __________________ REVOLVER -retired- "There is nothing more uncommon than common sense" -Frank Lloyd Wright

04-09-2010, 07:43 AM	#5
Anpu Count Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,186	There wouldn't be any DB cluttering nor level one chars as improvised banks if NGD first finished with clans before moving to developing other stuff. Now dual wielding has priority over clan systems. They are rushing a lot with game features, leaving them half finished and buggy. Also, for this year, we can probably forget any kind of clan update, as they announced what they are going to do this year (thread where Kailer explained they won't have time to take a look into Evasion because schedule is busy). If they don't have time for one of the biggest problem in Regnum, which created tons of threads (just like lack of clan banks created tons of level 1 chars), I personally don't expect anything for clan either. __________________ Inquisition

04-09-2010, 12:14 PM	#6
Malik2 Initiate Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Oregon Posts: 219	Aaris is right, where some clans may drop their clan banking, others will end up with multiple lvl 10 or 15 probabaly barbarian banks to hold items, so instead of 3 lvl 1 characters we will be looking at 30 or 40 individual characters to hold all the items. Arwen makes good points. Although I also agree with Anpu that if there was some clan enhancement coming we would have been informed. I know plenty of people who have never tried to sell an item on realm chat becasue they just gave it to the clan, since we can't save for the clan, will this change turn realm chat into more of "lets make a deal" than it already is? __________________ Ulixes Wolfhair Hunter of Syrtis...Horus and Ra- The White Company

04-09-2010, 12:36 PM	#7
Freduardo Initiate Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 107	I've previously contributed quite some items to my former clan's banks. And although I do not want to condemn such behavior per se (the idea behind it is good). It often leads to item hording. Shitloads of useful stuff that isn't being used and just sits there in a lvl 1 character. I would agree though that something needs to be done. But I'd like to see that something to go more towards a better trading system or auction house than just another way to hamster all kinds of items for a select few people. Imho. __________________ Fredu'Cya

04-09-2010, 12:54 PM	#8
Groark Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 116	The solution is what Arwen said: "What Regnum needs in order to help its economy grow is some sort of "Auction House" or "Trading Post" to let people place items up for sale/auction and automatically exchange items when a sale is accepted whether or not a user is online". There is a game (Runescape) with that buying-selling system and it works perfect.

04-09-2010, 03:39 PM	#9
Greyman_tle Initiate Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 154	As I see it NGD - if the OP premise is correct and its a DB issue - have shot themselves in the foot. Clans improvised a banking system, as there was none availiable - even thou it has been repeatedly asked for. The clan im in b4 the update allready minimisd the amount stored in the banks to stop the 'disappearing item' problem, but this still OB's the characters. The most likely outcome will be an increase of bank characters, as that appears to be the only way around the new system. Assuming this would increase trade is all fine well and good, if we had a trading system. What a clan wants to do with the items they find...is up to the clan. slight worry - if it was done to lessen DB load...the system is flawed. It runs along the same lines as...WHY? does the forum go offline when the game servers are being updated...I can only infer that its on the same server...and if its on the same server how much else is?...all the worlds? Players will find a work around for this that suits the players....this probably wont suit NGD.....hopefully NGD will listen to the players at some point.