New invasions mechanics

chilko · 02-18-2011, 11:59 PM

Dear players
As you'll see on monday with the Warmasters update we've made some changes to the invasion system.

We wanted to tell you about this changes so you can check them out and debate during the weekend.

What do we want to achieve with this changes:
1) To gather a bigger amount of users on the same location to help realms organize themselves.
2) to avoid camping by increasing numbers of defenders (we remind you that killing enemies in saves means no XP, loss of RP and it doesn't count for the daily adventures)
3) We want invasions to happen more frequently. Also, we need to have many battles at the same time in different locations so we don't overload the server and client.
4) Avoid a single realm to be constantly harassed.

solutions that were implemented:

1) and 2): One and only central save

3): New invasion mechanics
• The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)
• If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends.
• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear.
• maximum invasion time will be of 2 hours.

4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

Please don't take this changes as final as we plan to continue making modifications to invasions until we get them right and we need to test changes with live server's population. Think of this as an event

Regards,

Chilko

EDIT: health of the realm gate has been greatly reduced too

Znurre · 02-19-2011, 12:05 AM

Well, I do think these are all improvements compared to what we have today.
However, as I see it, the warzone gate is still a great problem for spontaneous invasions since it creates one hot spot where enemies can defend, which will always mean that the attacking realm will need to outnumber the defending one to even stand a chance.
It also creates a lot of lag and puts strain on the server.

EDIT: I just read that you also reduced the warzone gate health, that is a good move, although I am not sure if that will be enough.
I will wait until I tried it out and give more opinions then.

Miraculix · 02-19-2011, 12:12 AM

A few remarks:

Re-appearing gates after taking back even 1 fortification?

It sounds like it will be impossible to invade, at least on Horus. Since the introduction of the so-called "gem GPS" it is almost impossible to take a gem outside unless you have a huge zerg with you. This makes taking gems out a rather slow process. Now with this new feature, it will be almost impossible to take the gems since the invaders need to be able to keep the forts AND take out gems at the same time - almost impossible for Horus numbers.

About the invulnerability:

I fear this will instead force the realm into a state of apathy, not an offensive stance. We've already seen this happen with Alsius on Horus - they just go grinding alts. If a realm has lost all it's gems it is quite possible that (especially with these new features) they were heavily outnumbered. Removing potential RvR-hours from their gameplay (that is what invulnerability will do) will make the situation worse for them and potentially frustrate them, fast...

I like the one-save-per-realm in WZ idea, a lot, and I also like the fact that gates are easier to break now, this is a change that was long overdue, again speaking from Horus invasion experience only.

VandaMan · 02-19-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

1) y 2): One and only central save

I'm confused as to how this helps. Doesn't this focus action to more specific areas, while you're trying to spread it over more area to help server performance? Will definitely help encourage premium mount sales though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

(it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them)

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think it may kill normal fortwars outside of invasions. During a long fight between 2 realms, 3 or 4 players from the third realm can easily grab the other forts and start the timer just out of boredom, and pull all the action away from the real fight (at least on horus.) This means we'll all have to leave the main fight to take back empty forts routinely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

• if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-apear.

Does this mean once you've been invaded you can basically lock the invaders inside your realm?

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilko

4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!)

To me this invulnerability rule is a terrible terrible idea. It pretty much signals that all war outside of invasions is irrelevant. It also takes away the choice of the other realms to fight who they want to.

Overall I like that invasions are being rethought. However I think a lot of these proposed changes may be well fit for the population of Ra, but not horus.

Mattdoesrock · 02-19-2011, 12:34 AM

I agree with Mira.

If a realm becomes invunerable, where is the motivation to take an offensive stance?

Sometimes a realm can be without ANY gems for over a week. Some people could see this as a free grinding week. They know they're not going to be needed in war - that their own war zone area will see less action, so they can grind in peace.

Not many people have enough "realm pride" to motivate them enough to make a concerted effort to retake their gems.

If this invunerability is to stay - players need to be motivated to retake their gems. Current invasion rewards are not enough to do this on their own.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van

It also takes away the choice of the other realms to fight who they want to.

This too.

tikinho · 02-19-2011, 12:42 AM

OK lets imagine Syrtis makes Ignis gate in danger.
Syrtis makes four parties:
1) for guarding Menirah;
2) for guarding Samal;
3) for guarding Shaanarid;
4) for breaking Ignis gates.

Ignis leaves the gates without defence. The Syrtis gates party breaks the gates and goes for the gems. Ignis goes for one of their fortifications with all of their online players and takes the fort, that means the gates will re-appear. Syrtis won't be able to take the gems out. Syrtis has to take again the fortification that all online Ignis players will guard, to hold it and the rest of the fortifications again for 15 minutes, and to break the gate again, to get the gems out?
Seems pretty impossible for me even harder than the invasions before.
Also if Alsius wants to cooperate with Ignis, that are being invaded all it takes is to bring all Alsius online people to one fortification kill all guarding it Syrtis + guards and let one of the Ignis capture the fort while the rest of the Ignis are fighting at the gate or at other fortification.

Kitsuni · 02-19-2011, 01:01 AM

Rather than invulnerability, I would prefer that a new fort level be added (level 5), that cannot be reached with the normal upgrades. The forts would be guarded by a mini-dragon or some other powerful creature (not lame superguards that do nothing) that would need to be killed in order to capture it. When a realm loses all of its gems, the final upgrade level would become available, giving them the defensive advantage, and allowing them to have more offensive power due to the lack of need to guard home forts. This way taking their forts would be unlikely, but still possible. Perhaps the reward for taking those forts could be even greater for enemies. This upgrade would also be available on enemy territory, helping to get that gem back!

theotherhiveking · 02-19-2011, 01:02 AM

Once the warmasters are in, they should be able to teleport other players inside

Jippy · 02-19-2011, 01:07 AM

You guys are forgetting - 2 become a Whoremaster u have 2 kill ppl - the best way to kill ppl is by taking forts and hopefully invade - rape - and pillage...

Aasiora-Leif · 02-19-2011, 01:09 AM

Bad bad bad. not liking any of these changes except for having one alter for each respective realm in the wz. These changes that you propose will make invasions nearly impossible. As many people said above, all the defending realm has to do is retake a fort and camp it, trapping the zerg inside. With what you propose, we would have to designate fort guard players and even with guards, the power of a full zerg can easily overrun ONE fort and camp it. As it is right now, realms need to invade during inactive times in order to get a gem (invasion attempts during active times are nearly impossible). With the Warmaster update, invasion attempts during inactive hours might even be hopeless.

02-18-2011, 11:59 PM	#1
chilko NGD·Studios Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 892	New invasions mechanics Dear players As you'll see on monday with the Warmasters update we've made some changes to the invasion system. We wanted to tell you about this changes so you can check them out and debate during the weekend. What do we want to achieve with this changes: 1) To gather a bigger amount of users on the same location to help realms organize themselves. 2) to avoid camping by increasing numbers of defenders (we remind you that killing enemies in saves means no XP, loss of RP and it doesn't count for the daily adventures) 3) We want invasions to happen more frequently. Also, we need to have many battles at the same time in different locations so we don't overload the server and client. 4) Avoid a single realm to be constantly harassed. solutions that were implemented: 1) and 2): One and only central save 3): New invasion mechanics • The gate will be vulnerable when the realm looses control of all its fortifications for 15 minutes (it doesn't matter if those where taken by a single opposing realm or both of them) • If the defending realm retakes one fortification the vulnerability ends. • if the gate was broken and the defending realm retakes one fortification the gates will re-appear. • maximum invasion time will be of 2 hours. 4) New invulnerability rule: If a realm looses all its gems it will become invulnerable and its fortifications will not be able to be taken unless they take back or steal a gem or one of the opposing realms visits the dragon. (now the invulnerable realm can take a fully offensive stance!) Please don't take this changes as final as we plan to continue making modifications to invasions until we get them right and we need to test changes with live server's population. Think of this as an event Regards, Chilko EDIT: health of the realm gate has been greatly reduced too Last edited by Wyatt; 02-19-2011 at 12:23 AM. Reason: Text corrections

02-19-2011, 12:05 AM	#2
Znurre Marquis Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: RA Posts: 1,897	Well, I do think these are all improvements compared to what we have today. However, as I see it, the warzone gate is still a great problem for spontaneous invasions since it creates one hot spot where enemies can defend, which will always mean that the attacking realm will need to outnumber the defending one to even stand a chance. It also creates a lot of lag and puts strain on the server. EDIT: I just read that you also reduced the warzone gate health, that is a good move, although I am not sure if that will be enough. I will wait until I tried it out and give more opinions then. __________________ Winning a fight is not what makes you a good player, it's how you do it. http://home.znur.re/screenshot%20201...2011_39_37.jpg

02-19-2011, 12:12 AM	#3
Miraculix Count Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Infinite Improbability Drive Posts: 1,287	A few remarks: Re-appearing gates after taking back even 1 fortification? It sounds like it will be impossible to invade, at least on Horus. Since the introduction of the so-called "gem GPS" it is almost impossible to take a gem outside unless you have a huge zerg with you. This makes taking gems out a rather slow process. Now with this new feature, it will be almost impossible to take the gems since the invaders need to be able to keep the forts AND take out gems at the same time - almost impossible for Horus numbers. About the invulnerability: I fear this will instead force the realm into a state of apathy, not an offensive stance. We've already seen this happen with Alsius on Horus - they just go grinding alts. If a realm has lost all it's gems it is quite possible that (especially with these new features) they were heavily outnumbered. Removing potential RvR-hours from their gameplay (that is what invulnerability will do) will make the situation worse for them and potentially frustrate them, fast... I like the one-save-per-realm in WZ idea, a lot, and I also like the fact that gates are easier to break now, this is a change that was long overdue, again speaking from Horus invasion experience only. __________________ Hit me, nail me, make me God. Panoramix :: Half Elf Hunter ## Miraculix :: Half Elf Marksman ## Aspirinix :: Wood Elf Conjurer Syrtis :: Horus :: Antartes

02-19-2011, 01:02 AM	#8
theotherhiveking Count Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,452	Once the warmasters are in, they should be able to teleport other players inside __________________ ⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺⎺

02-19-2011, 01:07 AM	#9
Jippy Initiate Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Any place that has beer Posts: 179	You guys are forgetting - 2 become a Whoremaster u have 2 kill ppl - the best way to kill ppl is by taking forts and hopefully invade - rape - and pillage... __________________ Jippy 60 Knight Member of Team Goat Last edited by Jippy; 02-19-2011 at 02:04 AM.

02-19-2011, 12:42 AM	#6
tikinho Initiate Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 244	OK lets imagine Syrtis makes Ignis gate in danger. Syrtis makes four parties: 1) for guarding Menirah; 2) for guarding Samal; 3) for guarding Shaanarid; 4) for breaking Ignis gates. Ignis leaves the gates without defence. The Syrtis gates party breaks the gates and goes for the gems. Ignis goes for one of their fortifications with all of their online players and takes the fort, that means the gates will re-appear. Syrtis won't be able to take the gems out. Syrtis has to take again the fortification that all online Ignis players will guard, to hold it and the rest of the fortifications again for 15 minutes, and to break the gate again, to get the gems out? Seems pretty impossible for me even harder than the invasions before. Also if Alsius wants to cooperate with Ignis, that are being invaded all it takes is to bring all Alsius online people to one fortification kill all guarding it Syrtis + guards and let one of the Ignis capture the fort while the rest of the Ignis are fighting at the gate or at other fortification.

02-19-2011, 01:01 AM	#7
Kitsuni Baron Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 886	Rather than invulnerability, I would prefer that a new fort level be added (level 5), that cannot be reached with the normal upgrades. The forts would be guarded by a mini-dragon or some other powerful creature (not lame superguards that do nothing) that would need to be killed in order to capture it. When a realm loses all of its gems, the final upgrade level would become available, giving them the defensive advantage, and allowing them to have more offensive power due to the lack of need to guard home forts. This way taking their forts would be unlikely, but still possible. Perhaps the reward for taking those forts could be even greater for enemies. This upgrade would also be available on enemy territory, helping to get that gem back!

02-19-2011, 01:09 AM	#10
Aasiora-Leif Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Central Island Posts: 55	Bad bad bad. not liking any of these changes except for having one alter for each respective realm in the wz. These changes that you propose will make invasions nearly impossible. As many people said above, all the defending realm has to do is retake a fort and camp it, trapping the zerg inside. With what you propose, we would have to designate fort guard players and even with guards, the power of a full zerg can easily overrun ONE fort and camp it. As it is right now, realms need to invade during inactive times in order to get a gem (invasion attempts during active times are nearly impossible). With the Warmaster update, invasion attempts during inactive hours might even be hopeless. __________________ Aasiora(conjurer) \| Aari (knight) \|Iraa (warlock)