Champions of Regnum

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-   -   RNG update at Amun! (https://forum.championsofregnum.com//showthread.php?t=105042)

schachteana 04-18-2015 11:38 AM

SAVE GUARDS (all of them) -

would it really be too bad to change their behaviour so they only attack when allies around the bind are being attacked and stay passive otherwise?
The "come 60 meters near the altar and I will fucking 9000-onehit you"-mentality of the save guards is horrible.


^ the words and signature of a man who is wasted.

Blart 04-19-2015 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schachteana (Post 1828148)
can i just ask one thing

what was wrong with regnums RNG? It used to produce real random numbers, right? and now, it was changed so the chance for resist/evade/whatever-chains is smaller? so, ngd basically manipulated the probability?
as far as i know, people weren't really having a problem with how probability works but rather with the amount of resists in general, which used to be (and still is on liveserver) about 30% for non-damaging stun spells. Lowering the resist rate in general would have been enough, I'd say, but definitely necessary nevertheless.
since this is probably solved now, I shouldn't complain anyway. there is so much to do for ngd, I hope they'll get around to everything one day.

The exact term about the complaint about the RNG is the redudancy. It means the probability that , whereas those numbers are random at long scale, they repeat themself at short scale.
This in the game made some really annoying sequences where all spells were resisted therefore completely changing the course of the fight.
So to answer your question those were not random numbers but sequential numbers. That's what was corrected.

-Mongoose- 04-19-2015 04:27 AM

Long post, but a lot of information. I've highlighted several areas where it'd be great to have someone provide data or double check my work. Many thanks if you can provide help here. Red items are things I think that NGD should definitely examine before releasing this to the live server.

Questions / Comments:
*It seems that crit damage has been lowered slighly since last week. Can NGD confirm this? Also, I'd like to see some tests from boss jeweled players. How hard are you hitting now?

*It seems that the majority of non-damaging spells have the "only blockable at 100%". Why do the following spells not have the modifier? Death Sentence, Sticky Touch, Taunt, Confuse, Darkness, Howl, Freeze, Caltrop's arrow. Can you also explain precisely what this modifier does? The spell is only blockable if the knight casts precise block?

*All single target knocks (Ambush, Will Domain, Feint) except Kick have the "only blockable at 100%" Seems a bit unfair to barbs. I guess it's based on the non-damaging condition.

*Why does War Confidence have the "only blockable at 100%" and "only resistable at 100%"? Amusing at least :P Also, can you change this to be like an aura? It's annoying when it interrupts spell casts (old bug).

*Does hit chance/spell focus still exist in code? Your initial post made it sound like hit chance was eliminated. The following spells still have hit chance / spell focus modifiers: Challenging Roar, Eagle's Eye, Resurect, Bless, Sadistic Guard, Trained Eye.

*Since this update is focusing on RNG, can we get some information about the mechanics of Miss Chance? It's very few spells, maybe even remove miss chance spells?

*A while back, I measured resist rates on the live server (in January). Two players were in the arena, level 60 Barb and level 60 Hunter. Both players stood still, no movement. Latency was steady around 200 ms for both players. I measured the following resist rates. Intimidate: (p=0.0463, 95% confidence interval=[0.0363, 0.0563], n=1685). Under these same conditions, I measured certain spells that had higher resist rates: Kick (p=0.169, 95% confidence interval=[0.138, 0.201], n=544), Deafening Roar (p=0.151, 95% confidence interval=[0.118, 0.183], n=464). Why do these spells currently have higher resist rates and will this occur on the new RNG update?

*Since we're on the topic of RNG, can you make a statement about this rumor I've heard about resists? Supposed a dev told this to a player, I've only heard it second hand, it goes as follows. When a player casts a power, the client and sever perform several checks to verify that the spell can be cast. Supposedly the number of checks is three. Supposedly if the target is not in range on the final check at the end of casting, the server defaults to a spell resist instead of canceling the spell. I'm aware that you can get a 'Out of Range' message on spell casting. My hypothesis would be that the target appears in range on the client. The server implements lag compensation, and what the caster client sees may be different from the server reality. Under this condition, where the target is in range on the client, but out of range on the server, the server defaults to a spell resist. Is there any truth to this rumor? This would potentially explain the seemingly high resists that we see in the war zone, but not under controlled tests.

Notes:
*Bug: Character sheet shows movement speed dropping to 60% at the moment the character attacks, then back up to 100%. I've only been able to replicate this on knight & barb. Hunter/Lock did not seem to have this issue. Character can be standing still or moving, it will occur in both situations. To replicate: attack a mob with a melee character. Movement speed will drop to 60% at the moment the attack hits the mob, then jump back up to 100%. This appears to only be a display issue, it doesn't feel like the character slows down. Someone can confirm on Barb/Knight?

Update: Trying to reproduce it more. Doesn't happen on every hit, there will be mobs where this never happens. Try starting in non-combat mode, then hitting control as you approach. Switch back to non-combat after you kill, seems to happen more likely. The 60% never appears if I attack with a spell.

*Block Chance is now a percentage. The value on the shield directly corresponds to block chance. I don't have a level 60 shield, but the level 58 shield has 9% block chance. Can someone post how much a level 60 shield has?

*Aventurines have been convered to Crit Chance bonuses. A +17 hit chance was converted to 3.4% crit chance. gem_crit_chance = 2*gem_hit_chance. Anyone can confirm this?


*The following jewelry is related to the RNG update:
-Ring of Twins: Spell Focus +4. Does it do anything? Nothing on the character sheet changes.
-Hypnotizing Amulet: Hit Chance +12 converted into Crit Chance +2%
-Desert Wanderer Ring: No data. Someone please post.
-Ring of Earth: No data. Someone please post.
-Ring of Spider (Syrtis only, does this still exist?): No data. Someone please post.
-Ring of Undead Touch: No data. Someone please post.

*Evade chance debuffs work as expected (tested with Crash + Destabilize). Debuffs are additive. Crash (-40%) and Destabilize (-10%) give a total of -50%.

*The attack damage seems to have stayed the same.
class_multiplier*(class_attribute - 20) + weapon_damage_bonus * (weapon_damage + jewelry_damage + buff_damage) + paren_damage
weapon_damage_bonus: buffs like berserk, overwhelming strength. additive.
paren_dmg: damage in parens at the top of the weapon.
Still haven't added in the Attack Damage buffs (Fulminating) or how weapon gems affect things. I don't think they changed anything here.

*Critical Chance, Evade Chance, Critical Damage: Working on formulas for these now. Anymore have data/formulas for them yet?

Spell Changes/Notes:
*Only Blockable at 100%: Disable Limb, Disabling, Deafening Roar, Threat, Challenging Roar*, Obfuscate, Ambush, Sudden Strike, Distracting Shot, Shield Pierce, Will Domain, Silence, Curse, Blindness, Clumsiness, Slow, Petrify Hands, Laziness, Fragility, Infuriate, Sadistic Guard, Cremate, Elemental Exposure, Finger Crush, Challenge, Feint, War Confidence* (Why do Challenging Roar / War Confidence have this modifier? They are buffs.)

*Only resistable at 100%: Sadistic Guard, Cremate, War Confidence

*Challenging Roar: Is a hit chance buff again. Wasn't it a critical damage buff a few days ago?

*Rapid Shot: -50% hit chance -> -50% crit damage

*Duelist: hit chance -> critical chance (+5% to +25% (multiplier)). This corresponds to multipliers of 1.05 to 1.25.

*Adaptability: Unchanged at +200% critical chance. Works as expected.

*Hinder: Hit Chance debuff -> Damage bonus: -2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, 10%. Only blockable at 100%

*Eagles Eye: Still is a hit chance buff

*Point Shot: Unchanged. Critical Chance +25% (percentage points) @ level 5. This seems a bit wierd, not getting the values I expect. Critical chance changes from 4.89% to 30.34%. This is a change of 25.4 percentage points. Is this expected? Is there some multiplier in the crit chance formula that I' missing? Nothing else was skilled or equipped except for the bow. Can someone confirm this oddity?

*Spell Elude: +20%, 50%, 90%, 140%, 200% spell resist

*Evasive Tactics: hit chance debuff -> damage bonus -2,3,6,7,8%

*Curse: Damage Bonus: -2%, 4%, 6%, 8%, 10%, Critical Chance: -10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 30%. Only blockable at 100%. Same duration / cd (60 s, 20 s)

*Bless: Still the same with hit chance / spell focus?

*Protection Dome: Absolute spell resist +3%, 6%, 10%, 16%, 25%. Caster movement debuff -25% Duration 20, Cooldown 90. Those are percentage points. I.E. At level 5, your spell resist might change from 5% to 30%. It does affect the caster.

*Sadistic Guard: Unchanged. -10, -20, -30, -40, -50 spell resist. Only unblockable at 100%. Can you explain how this works? The debuff does not act as a multiplicative or subtractive debuff. A hunter buffed with Spell Elude to get 10.12% spell resist. I cast Sadistic Guard 1 (-10 spell resist) and their spell resist chance went to 0. It seems there is no need to ever take this spell above level 1.

*Focus: Has a spell focus bonus, does it do anything?

*Trained Eye: Still has hit chance bonus.

*Challenge: Spell Resist -25%, -40%, -55%, -70%, -100%. Concentration -10, -15, -20, -25, -30. Only blockable at 100%

*Taunt: No change. Why does this not have "only blockable at 100%". Also, making this castable on guards would be interesting, allowing knights to take aggro for warrior/archer guards and protecting others from damage.

*Precise Block: Duration: 4,5,6,7,9. Cooldown 45 s. Mana: 90, 110, 140, 170, 200.

*Defensive Support: Movement speed shows as 89% instead of 90%. Most likely a floating point issue, just round the result before displaying and it should be fine.

Ludwig Von Mises 04-19-2015 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosk (Post 1828874)
- Challenge: Opponent Hit Chance changed to Opponent Spell Resistance -25%/-40%/-55%/-70%/-100%. Added Opponent Concentration -10%/-15%/-20%/-25%/-30% Duration changed to 5/5/10/10/15.

This spell seems to be another useless spell which knights will only use to dismount opponents or for a more nerfed and limited extent now to keep mana hp down on other knights etc.

Original challenge level 1 lasted 20 seconds and it was kind of a useless spell to use on other classes. The only use it had was to dismount and to make it harder for your opponent to regenerate mana and hp. That, right there, was the only use which has nothing to do with reduce hit chance. xD

Now the new update at amun with the -% spell resistance and concentration at level 1 which is only 5 seconds is just crap. Imagen chasing a mag down you cast it, it last 5 seconds and by the time you get anywhere close to the mag it wears off? Maybe the only affect it may have is to skill it at level 5 which very few knights will do and seems like a waste of skill points. Even at level 5 its 15 seconds. Imagen running after a mage they cast pricky ivy or tornado on you and by the time you run after it again your spell wears off? Pffs.. Thats what i call a useless spell and a waste of skill points.

In my opinion the best use for this spell is to make it a speed reduction spell, like level 1: -5% speed reduction, level 2: -7% speed reduction, level -9% speed reduction, level 4: -12% speed reduction, level 5 -14% speed reduction. Either that, or leave it as it was before, is my opinion.

LawZ 04-19-2015 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
Questions / Comments:
*It seems that crit damage has been lowered slighly since last week. Can NGD confirm this? Also, I'd like to see some tests from boss jeweled players. How hard are you hitting now?

Critical damage has been reverted to what it was before. Crit_DMG = (1+1/3)*Normal_DMG. I think it is also stated on the character sheet, when you hover mouse over there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*It seems that the majority of non-damaging spells have the "only blockable at 100%". Why do the following spells not have the modifier? Death Sentence, Sticky Touch, Taunt, Confuse, Darkness, Howl, Freeze. Can you also explain precisely what this does? The spell is only blockable if the knight casts precise block?

*All single target knocks (Ambush, Will Domain, Feint) except Kick have the "only blockable at 100%" Seems a bit unfair to barbs. I guess it's based on the non-damaging condition.

*Why does War Confidence have the "only blockable at 100%" and "only resistable at 100%"? Amusing at least :P Also, can you change this to be like an aura? It's annoying when it interrupts spell casts (old bug).

I have the same question. I haven't completely understood what "only blockable/resistable at 100%" etc means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*Does hit chance/spell focus still exist in code? Your initial post made it sound like hit chance was eliminated. The following spells still have hit chance / spell focus modifiers: Challenging Roar, Eagle's Eye, Resurect, Bless, Sadistic Guard, Trained Eye.

*Since this update is focusing on RNG, can we get some information about the mechanics of Miss Chance? It's very few spells, maybe even remove miss chance spells?

If I am not mistaken both HC and Spell Focus are considered 100% for all toons. And this is the reason why now we have absolute % of evasion, spell resistance, block in our character sheet.
Some spells haven't changed yet. NGD will change them as patch goes on, I guess.
Considering Miss Chance, I think it dates back to beta times. Must be caused by some part of code that still exists in the calculation routine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*Aventurines have been convered to Crit Chance bonuses. A +17 hit chance was converted to 3.4% crit chance. gem_crit_chance = 2*gem_hit_chance. Anyone can confirm this?

They used a formula like gem_crit_chance (in %) = gem_hit_chance / 5. Although it seems not being exactly applied to all HC bonus i had in my equipment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*The attack damage seems to have stayed the same.
class_multiplier*(class_attribute - 20) + weapon_damage_bonus * (weapon_damage + jewelry_damage + buff_damage) + paren_damage
weapon_damage_bonus: buffs like berserk, overwhelming strength. additive.
paren_dmg: damage in parens at the top of the weapon.
Still haven't added in the Attack Damage buffs (Fulminating) or how weapon gems affect things. I don't think they changed anything here.

This hasn't changed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*Critical Chance, Evade Chance, Critical Damage: Working on formulas for these now. Anymore have data/formulas for them yet?

I wouldn't try to get the new formulas, since we are still in dev stage. Better first wait for patch on live servers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*Point Shot: Unchanged. Critical Chance +25% (percentage points) @ level 5. This seems a bit wierd, not getting the values I expect. Critical chance changes from 4.89% to 30.34%. This is a change of 25.4 percentage points. Is this expected? Is there some multiplier in the crit chance formula that I' missing? Nothing else was skilled or equipped except for the bow. Can someone confirm this oddity?

Point Shot seems to be the only spell providing absolute critical chance. I am not sure if this is intended or not, though. I think i was getting exactly +25%. I ll check it again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*Defensive Support: Movement speed shows as 89% instead of 90%. Most likely a floating point issue, just round the result before displaying and it should be fine.

Yes, there must be a floating point issue with movement speed atm. I guess NGD will fix it, and I hope, to also translate it to "meters per second".

Best,

Kyrenis 04-19-2015 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829316)
*Bug: Character sheet shows movement speed dropping to 60% at the moment the character attacks, then back up to 100%. Someone can confirm on Barb/Knight?

A few years ago I noticed if I was constantly using normals against a fleeing enemy, they would eventually be out of my attack range without using any movement speed buffs/debuffs.
I always thought I was just imagining it/making excuses but I guess this proves that melee normal hits do in fact slow you down.

-Mongoose- 04-19-2015 12:08 PM

Additional Information.
Please verify the following if you have time:


Spell Resist = (Int/50 + Const/50 + Level/40)*spell_resist_multiplier
spell_resist_multiplier: Protection dome, Spell Elude, Challenge. Stacks in an additive manner.
Spell focus rings do nothing.
SOTW will overwrite this formula and set spell resist = 100%.

Critical Chance = [(Conc - 30)/10 + absolute_critical_bonus] * critical_chance_multiplier
absolute_critical_bonus: Only comes from Point Shot. This seems buggy.
critical_chance_bonus: Bonus on weapons, Duelist, Adaptability, etc. Additive.
Example: Buff Adaptability5(+200%) and weapon has 1.6%. critical_chance_bonus = 1+2+0.016=3.016

This formula fits my collect data very well with less than 0.5% on all data points. The only exception is if the character has necro. Simply using the debuffed Conc value does not work. Additionally, it's odd that there is no level dependence, when the description suggests that there is such a dependence. I tested characters in the range 4-60 though, and didn't see any level dependence.

Evade Chance = [(Dex - 60)/15 + Level/25 + 2/3*item_evade_chance]*evade_multiplier
item_evade_chance: Bonuses on items / rings, etc.
evade_multiplier: dodge, cat reflexes. Additive.
Escapist will overwrite this formula and set Evade Chance = 100%.

This formula gave me the most difficulty. The other two formulas would perfectly match under most circumstances. This formula gives me error between -4% to +3% percentage points. I'm hoping this is just because the /15 is giving nasty floating point issues, but the spread seems a little too much.

Bug: There is a math/floating point error somewhere in the evade chance calculation. Conditions: Dex=90, Level=51, No buffs, No bonus crit chance on items. Evade chance is shown as 3%. With 89 dex, evade=3.93. With 92 dex, evade=4.32. My formula predicts a theoretical value of 4.04%. There is some weird truncation going on.

Other stuff:
*Crit damage: Lawz is completely right, it's just 1.33 times attack damage.

*Hit Chance -> Crit Conversion: Lawz is right again. I forgot to divide by 10...

*Evasive tactics damage debuffs works as attack_damage / (1 + damage_bonus).

*Spell focus on staves is useless now? NGD should update this to a useful stat for mages.

Hayir 04-19-2015 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ludwig Von Mises (Post 1829320)
This spell seems be another useless spell which knights will only use to dismount opponents or for a more nerfed and limited extent now to keep mana hp down on other knights etc.

Original challenge level 1 lasted 20 seconds and it was kind of a useless spell to use on other classes. The only use it had was to dismount and to make it harder for your opponent to regenerate mana and hp. That right there was the only use which has nothing to do with reduce hit chance. xD

Now the new update at amun with the -% spell resistance and concentration at level 1 which is only 5 seconds is just crap. Imagen chasing a mag down you cast it, it last 5 seconds and by the time you get anywhere close to the mag it wears off? Maybe the only affect it may have is to skill it at level 5 which very few knights will do and seems like a waste of skill points. Even at level 5 its 15 seconds. Imagen running after a mage they cast pricky ivy or tornado on you and by the time you run after it again your spell wears off? Pffs.. Thats what i call a useless spell and a waste of skill points.

In my opinion the best use for this spell is to make it a speed reduction spell, like level 1: -5% speed reduction, level 2: -7% speed reduction, level -9% speed reduction, level 4: -12% speed reduction, level 5 -14% speed reduction. Either that, or leave it as it was before, is my opinion.


I haven't tested this, just a theory:

The new challenge might counter Sotw if casted before.
I don't know though how the calculation works since i haven't tested it, if the absolute value from sotw "overwrites" challenges debuff.

-Mongoose- 04-19-2015 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayir (Post 1829339)
I haven't tested this, just a theory:

The new challenge might counter Sotw if casted before.
I don't know though how the calculation works since i haven't tested it, if the absolute value from sotw "overwrites" challenges debuff.

Good idea to test! The absolute spell resist from SOTW, does in fact overwrite the -100% from challenge.

Challenge(5)
Sotw(5)
Intimidate -> Resisted.
Intimidate -> Resisted.

Spell Resist drops to 0% after the challenge, and goes up to 100% when SOTW is cast.

I tested a similar scenario with Spell Elude(5) [+200% Spell Resist]. These buffs stack in an additive manner. Thus Challenge5 + Spell Elude5 results in a +100% multiplier. The archer will have 2x of their base spell resist. The casting sequence of spells does not affect the final spell resist.

LawZ 04-19-2015 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1829362)
Good idea to test! The absolute spell resist from SOTW, does in fact overwrite the -100% from challenge.

Challenge(5)
Sotw(5)
Intimidate -> Resisted.
Intimidate -> Resisted.

Spell Resist drops to 0% after the challenge, and goes up to 100% when SOTW is cast.

I tested a similar scenario with Spell Elude(5) [+200% Spell Resist]. These buffs stack in an additive manner. Thus Challenge5 + Spell Elude5 results in a +100% multiplier. The archer will have 2x of their base spell resist. The casting sequence of spells does not affect the final spell resist.

That was always like that. Defensive absolute spells have priority over the Offensive ones.

LawZ 04-23-2015 12:51 PM

By translating from the corresponding spanish thread, Adrian said that a new "more polished" patch will be soon on. Already downloaded a patch of ~10 MB, but still Amun is off (since yesterday afaik).

Moreover, from a post of Frosk in a spanish thread, I read that a modification will be introduced on alsius boats. Alsius will be able to use them only when they are out-of-combat mode or a casting-time will be introduced. We have to wait for an official changelog on that....

Brace yourself for a new round of tests. :~

Best,

Frosk 04-24-2015 09:23 PM

New version uploaded at Amun!

Gameplay - System:
- Removed: Offensive Wall Camps.
- New: When you're attempting an Invasion (vulnerated a realm) and you die in its Realm Wall Door zone, you can choose to respawn in any of its Forts or Castle that you still have captured. We would like to thank user Dimitriu for this suggestion, as we adopted this feature from one of his posts.

Gameplay - Interface:
- Added: Character Sheet now allows to expand attributes to see: Health and Mana Regeneration, Movement Speed, Combat Range and Casting Speed Bonus.
- Modified: Basic Critical Chance given by items depending on its quality and material raised.
- Added: When damage is reflected, now it's shown in the Combat Log after the spell or hit damage as "Reflected [X damage]" or "R[X]" if shortened combat log option is on.

Gameplay - Skills:

- Fixed: Retaliation now reflects spell damage.

- Retaliation: Cooldown changed to 30 seconds. Mana cost changed to 120/140/160/180/200.
- Eagle's Eyes: Hit Chance changed to Opponent Evade Chance: -10%/-15%/-20%/-25%/-35%.
- Point Shot: Hit Chance changed to: 130%/140%/150%/160%/180%. Added Attack Range: -30%/-25%/-20%/-10%/-0%.
- Threat: Miss Chance changed to Opponent Evasion Chance: 20%/30%/40%/60%/80%.
- Challenging Roar: Hit Chance changed to Casting Speed: 10%/15%/20%/25%/30%. In level 5 adds Spell Resistance 50%. Duration changed to 40 seconds. Cooldown changed to 120 seconds.
- Blindness: Miss Chance changed to Opponent Evasion Chance: 50%. Duration changed to 10/15/20/25/30 seconds.
- Bless: Hit Chance and Spell Focus changed to Casting Speed and Attack Speed: 5%/5%/7%/7%/10%. Duration changed to 30/60/90/120/150 seconds. Cooldown changed to 15 seconds.
- Petrify Hands: Hit Chance changed to Critical Chance.
- Sadistic Guards: Spell Resistance changed to -30%/-40%/-50%/-70%/-100%. Duration changed to 60/55/45/35/30 seconds. Mana cost changed to 140/155/160/175/190.
- Resurrect: Removed Hit Chance.
- Shifting Silhouette: Opponent Miss Chance changed to Evade Chance: 15%/30%/45%/60%/100%. At level 5, gives -10% Ranged Received Damage. Cooldown changed to 80 seconds. Cast on self only. Mana cost changed to 220/260/300/340/380.
- Focus: Spell Focus changed to Opponent Spell Resistance -25%/-30%/-35%/-40%/-50%.
- Sprint: Movement Speed changed to: 15%/20%/25%/30%/35%. Added Absolute Spell Resistance from level 3: 15%/30%/60%. Duration changed to 8/8/6/6/6. Cooldown changed to 60 sec. Mana cost changed to 100/120/140/160/180.

mind-trick 04-24-2015 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosk (Post 1830119)
- Sprint: Movement Speed changed to: 15%/20%/25%/30%/35%. Added Absolute Spell Resistance from level 3: 15%/30%/60%. Duration changed to 8/8/6/6/6. Cooldown changed to 60 sec. Mana cost changed to 100/120/140/160/180.

why is this necessary? i dont think nerfing their overall movement is a good idea, especially not if they become Sonic for only 6 seconds with a 1 min cd. in the long run it wouldnt be good, as mind push would basically not stop any barb with spring

mind-trick 04-24-2015 09:51 PM

ok... i tested spring on amun a couple times. it was ridiculous how slow barbs are now..

godismyjudge 04-24-2015 09:55 PM

Why remove Miss chance from Thread? Miss chance was quite a nice feature, not much used and if used, it was quite a low chance to trigger it, but one advantage of it was, that it worked on both normal hits and spells.

Challenging Roar will now allow barb to use fulmi for areas.

Retaliation now reflects spell damage .. it always did.

Iheartpancakes 04-24-2015 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosk (Post 1830119)
- Bless: Hit Chance and Spell Focus changed to Casting Speed and Attack Speed: 5%/5%/7%/7%/10%. Duration changed to 30/60/90/120/150 seconds. Cooldown changed to 15 seconds.

Everything looks pretty good, except this. Barb attack speed is already crazy as hell. I wouldn't like to see a permanent 10% as increase (yes it would be permanent with this spell) while dual wielding is OP as balls. We're basically looking at insta-death here.

Raindance 04-24-2015 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mind-trick (Post 1830121)
why is this necessary? i dont think nerfing their overall movement is a good idea, especially not if they become Sonic for only 6 seconds with a 1 min cd. in the long run it wouldnt be good, as mind push would basically not stop any barb with spring

It actually seems like an interesting change to me, since the duration actually drops the higher the level, so it doesn't have to have 5 points wasted on necessarily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iheartpancakes (Post 1830130)
Everything looks pretty good, except this. Barb attack speed is already crazy as hell. I wouldn't like to see a permanent 10% as increase (yes it would be permanent with this spell) while dual wielding is OP as balls. We're basically looking at insta-death here.

I kinda agree, maybe just leave casting speed and only 5% attack speed? Not every barb has 7% attack speed gems. :)

Something like this:

- Bless: Hit Chance and Spell Focus changed to Casting Speed 5%/5%/7%/7%/10% and Attack Speed: - / - / - /3%/5%. Duration changed to 30/60/90/120/150 seconds. Cooldown changed to 15 seconds.

Or, just make it into a critical hit chance spell.

MDpro 04-24-2015 10:13 PM

Quote:

- Bless: Hit Chance and Spell Focus changed to Casting Speed and Attack Speed: 5%/5%/7%/7%/10%. Duration changed to 30/60/90/120/150 seconds. Cooldown changed to 15 seconds.
No! :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raindance (Post 1830131)
Or, just make it into a critical hit chance spell.

^This is a better idea.

Quote:

- Retaliation: Cooldown changed to 30 seconds. Mana cost changed to 120/140/160/180/200.
I agree that the cooldown should be longer than it currently is... but those mana costs are a little bit too much for that spell.

Quote:

- New: When you're attempting an Invasion (vulnerated a realm) and you die in its Realm Wall Door zone, you can choose to respawn in any of its Forts or Castle that you still have captured. We would like to thank user Dimitriu for this suggestion, as we adopted this feature from one of his posts.
Good idea. :D :thumb_up:

Quote:

- Added: When damage is reflected, now it's shown in the Combat Log after the spell or hit damage as "Reflected [X damage]" or "R[X]" if shortened combat log option is on.
Finally! :thumb_up:

Slartibartfast 04-24-2015 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iheartpancakes (Post 1830130)
Everything looks pretty good, except this. Barb attack speed is already crazy as hell. I wouldn't like to see a permanent 10% as increase (yes it would be permanent with this spell) while dual wielding is OP as balls. We're basically looking at insta-death here.

Absolutelly agree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosk (Post 1830119)
- Sprint: Movement Speed changed to: 15%/20%/25%/30%/35%.

This is ridiculous. Buffing barb speed from 25% to 35% while you badly nerfed lock's slow. Not to mention buffed barb roar range.

C'mon, what are you doing?

Should we all drop our mage classes and start playing barbs?

mind-trick 04-24-2015 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast (Post 1830133)
Absolutelly agree with this.



This is ridiculous. Buffing barb speed from 25% to 35% while you badly nerfed lock's slow. Not to mention buffed barb roar range.

C'mon, what are you doing?

Should we all drop our mage classes and start playing barbs?

did you read it further? :p
cooldown of spring is increased by 40 seconds. RIP barbs, they are underpowered.

Slartibartfast 04-24-2015 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mind-trick (Post 1830134)
did you read it further? :p
cooldown of spring is increased by 40 seconds. RIP barbs, they are underpowered.

This speed burst is enough for them to be totally unstoppable. Also, you may say that 100% spring is ok too if cooldown is 3 min. But, it's not.

Wrong choice of words: not totally unstoppable, but to reach any of slow classes, such as locks and conjus.

Hayir 04-24-2015 10:29 PM

Since you seem to do quite a lot spell changes with this update, i would like to suggest a change to ethereal mantle. Especially since you announced to change it already in version 1.10.9.

Ethereal Mantle:

The knight can shield one ally against any spells

Type: Constant
Duration: 1,2,3,4,5
Mana cost: 150,185,225,260,300
Cooldown: 100
Cast: instant
GCD: Very Short

Absolute Spell resistance +100%

(could aswell be evade chance or even both)

or this: (first one fits more to this update though)

http://www.championsofregnum.com/for...59#post1772759


Most important, old bubble animation!

MDpro 04-24-2015 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast (Post 1830135)
Wrong choice of words: not totally unstoppable, but to reach any of slow classes, such as locks and conjus.

That extra 10% will be enough to catch archers too I think. At least if they're going to give barbs an increase in speed, they should chose a spell like either roar, UM, or intimidate to be not useable while spring is active. Just my opinion though. :smile:

Iheartpancakes 04-24-2015 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hayir (Post 1830138)
Since you seem to do quite a lot spell changes with this update, i would like to suggest a change to ethereal mantle. Especially since you announced to change it already in version 1.10.9.

Ethereal Mantle:

The knight can shield one ally against any spells

Type: Constant
Duration: 1,2,3,4,5
Mana cost: 150,185,225,260,300
Cooldown: 100
Cast: instant
GCD: Very Short

Absolute Spell resistance +100%

(could aswell be evade chance or even both)

or this: (first one fits more to this update though)

http://www.championsofregnum.com/for...59#post1772759


Most important, old bubble animation!

Ethereal Mantle is useless as it stands. This suggestion, with the high cd, decent mana cost, short duration but useful function, this could be a really interesting spell. I actually like it. +10

halvdan 04-24-2015 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast (Post 1830135)
This speed burst is enough for them to be totally unstoppable. Also, you may say that 100% spring is ok too if cooldown is 3 min. But, it's not.

Wrong choice of words: not totally unstoppable, but to reach any of slow classes, such as locks and conjus.

I think much more fun will be that +60% absolute resist chance on spring.
Just imagine, rushing barb with UM, no CC will work - and mind push will be resisted often due to that 60% absolute resist chance.
Yay, I really wouldn't love to be a mage if this happens :D

Takeyo 04-24-2015 11:27 PM

Staff Master Crit. Chance
 
For all of my tests, the different resist/evasion mechanics seem to be working as intended both in the short run and the long run. Well done!

There is just one concern with regard to the proposed crit. chance calculation. I realize that very few players use the Staff Mastery discipline, and those who do use it rarely try to play competitively. However, I have always used staff mastery as my primary damage source, and I have been able to play very competitively too. For me, the most important contributing factor in making Staff Mastery viable was crit. chance. By searching long and hard, I was able to procure many items with high hit chance boosts, and was able to use them to boost my crit. chance to the point that critical hits were occurring quite often. This helped to offset the intrinsically low damage output of staves. With the proposed new crit. calculation system, it will no longer be possible to build a reasonable level of crit. chance on a mage.

I understand that this side-effect is probably intentional, but it will be difficult to find a way to make my build viable again. Since my particular situation is so very niche, I would be remiss not to bring up this concern as it may well have been overlooked.

Thanks again for all of your hard work! :thumb:

Iheartpancakes 04-25-2015 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halvdan (Post 1830147)
Just imagine, rushing barb with UM, no CC will work - and mind push will be resisted often due to that 60% absolute resist chance.
Yay, I really wouldn't love to be a mage if this happens :D

I will have nightmares about this for the rest of my life. Thank you for making it look so graphic :'(

OT: Remove the 60% absolute resist chance, please. You've nerfed slow spells, which was the only way to keep a rushing UM barb off our backs, now you give them super speed and invulnerability to CCs? This isn't a good idea.

Slartibartfast 04-25-2015 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halvdan (Post 1830147)
and mind push will be resisted often due to that 60% absolute resist chance.

Mind push was screwed in last "balance" update when roar range was increased to the same as mind push. All I see is warlock wagon going downhill, without any intention to brake.

Kyrenis 04-25-2015 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast (Post 1830180)
Mind push was screwed in last "balance" update when roar range was increased to the same as mind push. All I see is warlock wagon going downhill, without any intention to brake.

I'm almost positive they haven't touched roar range. Barbs have always been able to roar a mage that casted mind push, it is just easier now that mind push takes away less movement speed than before.

Slartibartfast 04-25-2015 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrenis (Post 1830181)
I'm almost positive they haven't touched roar range. Barbs have always been able to roar a mage that casted mind push, it is just easier now that mind push takes away less movement speed than before.

You are right, I checked changelog. And you're right again why mind push became less effective against roar.

Iheartpancakes 04-25-2015 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrenis (Post 1830181)
I'm almost positive they haven't touched roar range. Barbs have always been able to roar a mage that casted mind push, it is just easier now that mind push takes away less movement speed than before.

I think you're right. Mind push used to be so strong it would seem like barbs came to a halt, giving locks time to run off before getting hit by roar. MP probably was too op tbh, but nerfing slow as well doesn't help. I'd like to see that spell returned to its former glory at least. It's not like it can't be dispelled after all.

crownapollo 04-25-2015 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iheartpancakes (Post 1830186)
I think you're right. Mind push used to be so strong it would seem like barbs came to a halt, giving locks time to run off before getting hit by roar. MP probably was too op tbh, but nerfing slow as well doesn't help. I'd like to see that spell returned to its former glory at least. It's not like it can't be dispelled after all.

It was not only that mind push was nerfed in that update, but some time around that update the servers started moving slower as well. Now barbs are able to run into mind push and still roar you, since the range is about the same- and the time it takes to cast it on top of the low amount of speed reduction gives them a second before the effect even makes a difference.

Also, has UM been changed in this update? Because sprint is now going to give barbs 60% absolute resist, and they'll be able to cast UM afterward.

It's obvious no one making decisions on their end even understands how this game works (or how the players think it ought to). GGWP, it was nice knowing some of you guys.

-Mongoose- 04-25-2015 03:00 AM

Some observations / notes:
*Spells that still have Hit Chance: Hawk's Gaze, Trained Eye, Finger Crush

*Miss Chance Spells (Blindness & Threat): First of all, I think you mean for them to be -Enemy Evade Chance. It doesn't make sense for a debuff to help the opponent. Second of all, they do currently don't change Evade Chance at all during a test duel.

*Shifting Silhouette: +Evade Chance. Relative. Won't have a huge effect, which is fine, we don't have enough power points anyways. My evade chance went from 3% to 6% on a level 60 conjurer.

*Challenging Roar: +30% Spell Resist at level 5 only. Relative. The spell resist part is kind of useless. It does not stack with spell resist from Spring. base_spell_resist*spell_resistance_bonus + absolute_spell_resist_chance. On a level 60 barb, I have base 3.36%, with Challenging Roar5, 5.04, with Challenging Roar5 + Spring5, 65.04.

*Movement speed bug on hit on melee: See this post for details. Still exists.

*Floating point errors: I don't get the floating point error while casting defensive support anymore. It still exists in Mana Regen & HP Regen? (0.49% and 1.49% instead of 0.5% and 1.5%)

*Frosk dropped a word in the change log. Point Shot was changed to Critical Chance. The values are as he says.

*Retaliation looks like this:
Arcane Missile(5)[24]->Target R[219] Caster Perspective
Caster->Arcane Missile(5)[24] R[219] Target Perspective.
Looks good!

*Boats: I was able to go through while being attack by a mob. No cast time. Doesn't seem to be a change, unless it must be triggered by enemy player attack. Where did you see this change in the Spanish forum, Lawz?

*Spell focus / Hit Chance still exists on items (Staves & Armor)

Other random facts:
Weapon Range:
Spear: 2 m
All other melee weapons: 1 m

Mana Regen:
Mage: 1% / s
Warriors: 1.5% / 2
Sitting: 4% / s

HP Regen:
All: 0.5% / s
Sitting: 1.5% / s

Mana Potion: +200% Mana Regen (Not +100% as the casting bar shows.)
HP Potion: +100% HP Regen
Elixir of Restoration: +100% HP Regen; +200% Mana Regen

Cast Speed: Depends on Concentration. cast_speed_bonus = (Concentration - 70) * 0.1% + item_bonus + arcane_devotion_bonus

Sentan 04-25-2015 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosk (Post 1830119)
New version uploaded at Amun!
Gameplay - System:
- Removed: Offensive Wall Camps.
- New: When you're attempting an Invasion (vulnerated a realm) and you die in its Realm Wall Door zone, you can choose to respawn in any of its Forts or Castle that you still have captured. We would like to thank user Dimitriu for this suggestion, as we adopted this feature from one of his posts.

Any Fort or Castle? Bad idea. Trell is too close to the gate.

And what about Parabolic Shot? Check the description of the spell, pls :P Blindness seems to be more useless than now. The same thing with Threat. Ring of the Earth/Desert Wanderer's Ring sucks even more, gj :P Good nerf.

You should modify spells that affect the concentration (buffs and debuffs).

LawZ 04-25-2015 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1830192)
Some observations / notes:
*Spells that still have Hit Chance: Hawk's Gaze, Trained Eye, Finger Crush

Add "Killer Instinct" on this list. It is a WM marksman spell, still with HC bonus on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1830192)
*Movement speed bug on hit on melee: See this post for details. Still exists.

+1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1830192)
*Floating point errors: I don't get the floating point error while casting defensive support anymore. It still exists in Mana Regen & HP Regen? (0.49% and 1.49% instead of 0.5% and 1.5%)

+1. I guess they will calibrate it on the next patch. MS floating point error has been corrected on this patch, I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1830192)
*Frosk dropped a word in the change log. Point Shot was changed to Critical Chance. The values are as he says.

Point shot was heavily nerfed moving from absolute crit chance to relative one and adding range malus. It is mentioned on Frosk's changelog though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1830192)
*Retaliation looks like this:
Arcane Missile(5)[24]->Target R[219] Caster Perspective
Caster->Arcane Missile(5)[24] R[219] Target Perspective.
Looks good!

Looks REALLY good!

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1830192)
*Boats: I was able to go through while being attack by a mob. No cast time. Doesn't seem to be a change, unless it must be triggered by enemy player attack. Where did you see this change in the Spanish forum, Lawz?

I was searching for it like half hour and meh can't find it. On that post, Frosk said something like that they they will add a cast-time or a non-combat-mode condition in order for Alsius to use boats. He said it will be included on this patch or on an future one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Mongoose- (Post 1830192)
Cast Speed: Depends on Concentration. cast_speed_bonus = (Concentration - 70) * 0.1% + item_bonus + arcane_devotion_bonus

Gonna test all your formulas after patch goes live. I ll include them on my excel scripts.

Other notes:
- I cried from joy with all these infos on character sheet. The only thing missing from character sheet is "Attack Speed". It can be calculated in "%" or "hits per second". If this is included, then character sheet is completed, imo.
- Bless spell needs a revise, cause it is a bit overpowered imo. Especially the AS bonus of 10%. It will be a bless- & bless-weapon-fest, if this goes live as it is.
- Eve ring crit bonus is still a relative-to-base one. I still expect something more prestigious like a, lower ofc, absolute one. But as I have said on a previous post, either way it is a bit crappy attribute by itself.
- Considering fort respawn on invasion conditions, Alsius have the less advantage cause of smaller map. Maybe, this can be compensated by larger death-cooldown timer? Just throwing an idea here.

Best,

Ludwig Von Mises 04-25-2015 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosk (Post 1828874)
Knight:
- Challenge: Opponent Hit Chance changed to Opponent Spell Resistance -25%/-40%/-55%/-70%/-100%. Added Opponent Concentration -10%/-15%/-20%/-25%/-30% Duration changed to 5/5/10/10/15.

You do realize this is almost a completely useless spell as you'v changed it right?

lvl 1 lasts 5 seconds, lvl 2 lasts 5 seconds, lvl 3 lasts 10 seconds, lvl 4 lasts 10 seconds, lvl 5 lasts 15 seconds.

in open field this will be utterly useless against any class including other knights. I'v tested it against other knights as well, many many times and its just crap. It has absolutely no use.

An advice: Make it a speed reduction spell or change it back the way it was.

Hayir 04-25-2015 01:28 PM

So you have added hp and mana reg to the character sheet, but tbh i don't know what to do with this information.

There are only legendary items which effect those stats. So nothing the majority of player can actually effect at all.

Instead of recycling the same spells with just different -resistance values etc. on all classes you might want to add some

-/+ % hp/mana regen as well.
Also - % Casting speed is a very rare effect (only TM atm?)
Might be an interesting change for challange as an example.


If you add more - % Casting speed for example, spells like brain pierce would also become more interesting (if you actually changed it so the canceled spell goes into cd), creating combos like this. Always been an interesting spell imo, with currently no use.

Hayir 04-25-2015 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by halvdan (Post 1830147)
I think much more fun will be that +60% absolute resist chance on spring.
Just imagine, rushing barb with UM, no CC will work - and mind push will be resisted often due to that 60% absolute resist chance.
Yay, I really wouldn't love to be a mage if this happens :D

In an earlier post frosk mentioned this:

"Added: Skill status of "Only blockable / resistable at 100%". This already existed for several skills but was not being mentioned in the tooltip."

Mind Push was included in this as far as i know, did they change it again? If not the resistance from spring won't help against mind push.

I think all control spells with no dmg were included in this.

Zarakaye 04-25-2015 02:39 PM

The first step of their challenging roadmap is not done yet while they put a deadline for mid-april. A formula combat is not so hard to do one whereas changing, enhance a c++ program... You will never be in time for your roadmap NGD

Ivramartono 04-25-2015 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarakaye (Post 1830235)
The first step of their challenging roadmap is not done yet while they put a deadline for mid-april. A formula combat is not so hard to do one whereas changing, enhance a c++ program... You will never be in time for your roadmap NGD

Those deadlines are estimated.


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