Remember that the same applies 100% to hunters. Hunters don't use dual shot, they use ensnaring arrow and, after the update, shield pierce.

So you just admit you don't even read suggestion forum?

Can your Mark do 300 normals on amun (without any damage buffs)?
If so, then what setup/gear are you using?

10 seconds duration of Army of One?

1 CC = bye bye duration. Even level 4 feint is 7 seconds...

dont forget about the "confuse" factor

i use about 5 bows but for the purpose of this tests i only used 2 of them, both of which hit around 400s on horus with only recharged arrows(5) and specialist(4). on amun the my slow30 longbow hit around 300s and my medium20 shortbow hit the same but (with a tendancy of hitting lower) with recharged arrows(5) and specialist(4). with lightness(4) my slow30 was hitting around 330ish and my medium20 stayed around 300 but rarely creeeped under the 300 mark.

These were all done on normal mobs (giant trolls and sabertooths) as i couldnt find any english players to test them with.

imho this kind of damage is fine for a marksman (with the amun damage balances) with the possibilty of multiplying with Dead Eye

my knights evasion is zero. is that wanted? i tried relog... still zero. with ring giving evasion +3 i have 3 evasion...

whats this? knight got a shield so he doesn't evade?

You nerfed aoo, thats ok... but please make other defensive buffs stronger.

300 slows, what is the purpose in war for that?
Hitting 10 normal slow hits to finally get someone down?

And the hunter can do nearly the same, but with pet etc...

Hunter is a defence not ofensive archer subclass... NGD doesn't do that what they wrote at home page...

Lets look at all the updates NGD has made to hunters in the past 7 phases:

- Pets are removed when the hunter casts camouflague --> supportive addition to hunters
- Cold Blood --> offensive addtion for hunters
- Death Sentence --> supportive addition for hunters
- Reveal Enemy --> Supportive addition for hunters
- Improvement on Stalker Surrounding --> Supportive addition for hunters

and the one change made to marksman being the removal of a marksmans only support spell for an offensive damage buff

so clearly NGD is on the road to making hunters the real supportive archer and marksman the offensive archer and theres still more to come

Why are the most often used spells the first ones per tree? Imo level 19 spells should be a better version of those you get earlier in the tree. e.g. a better south cross, less mana cost, more damage... Or, a cool protection spell. Only the mana cost is flawed, as you can't use it very often. (But if it's a "bug"... :P)

I'd still prefer 2 spells, one to resist ranged damage, one to resist melee damage, both, let's say 20 duration, 30 cooldown, but you can't run them both at the same time, they cancel each other. (There are enough useless spells in that tree, don't worry, hehe)

Believe me, there is no hunter that can do thesame dmg as a marks with thesame gear, if the marks is setup for max normals.

yes, but the pet makes up for this, and even more.

regards

pet, dies if camo, and if ppl would use their brain, trolls would die within secs in RvR, i mean, cmon, you cant miss the troll in the enemy ranks, i love those stupid things for a terror and my hunter has a hotkey for them >.<

I like the supporting back stap titel of the Hunter!

I still see that Marksman balance is being avoided.
When Recharged arrows and mana cost in general will be revisioned?
At least you finally solved that terrible bug, I really appreciate this, and I hope now I won't get anymore some manaburn (1) :D
Well I imagine that one of the main purposes of this balance update is adding more dynamics to the gameplay.
You adfirmed that players should be able to use every kind of weapon, and for this you changed many things such as weapon's attack speed, primary attribute formula etc..
Now I am a level 50 marks, and I would like you just to consider this:
You changed Dexterity formula, and now 1 point of dexterity give the same damage bonus not depending on weapon' (bow) speed.
In my opinion, this new formula creates a fall of dinamycs, I explain why.
Now the difference of attack speed between different bow's kinds (fast - medium- slow) is noticeable but the damage difference is really low, and my fast 25 (ex fast 20) bow has by far the highest dps between all my bows.
In general the new formula takes me to use only fast bows because medium and slow ones become quite useless, in other words fast bows are really better because they do a little less damage than slow bows, but their speed make them overcome the rest of bows in terms of convenience.
Archers will pratically use fast bows 90% of time, and may be sometimes a medium 35 bow (ex medium 30) for the +5 range and parabolic shot.
Probably you will say that medium and slow bows will be usefull for some kinds of spell that relies their damage on 100% attack damage, and to use Long bows tree, but as a Marksman I really think that this reasons are not sufficient for use to use those bows.
With the new removal of movement speed, CC are a must, we don't have points to waste in bow's trees and we can still get parabolic shot and rapid shot that are quite usefull for us.
And plus +100% AD spells have died with the damage reduction and new kind of protection - protection buff.
How many spells we have that relie on +100% attack damage? The only one I used was Dual shot, just sometimes to prevent enemies dancing around me but now I can't waste point on it so...
And the new spell "Dead eye" still remains useless:
not counting with new auras, damage reduction in genereal etc. this spell itself can give no more than +30 damage but I lose a normal hit (around 280) every 4 hits, It's like an auto damage-mana debuff.

And you have to be closest, which means you will be more of a target, so high dps and high dmg on you, or abit lower and less dmg, its a tradeoff, all classes have it, even warriors, 1 very high hit and the chance its evaded, or 2 lower hits and hope you will atleast land 1?

I would change all knockdown spells; give them a higher % chance to knock each level, but make knockdown spells 2-3 seconds depending on the spell, or even making them a simple knockdown for 1 second just to give the caster a little edge over the battle.

For example: Feint level 5: knockdown chance 100%, the enemy is knocked down (2 seconds). Feint level 1: knockdown chance 50%, the enemy is knocked down (2 seconds). However I'm not sure if this concept would be good for RvR. Also: as if Regnum needed more randomness or it would make everyone skill 19 Tactics, or some other reason.

I've seen many games with this kind of knockdown system, however I am not saying NGD should take the short road and copy those games. It's just an idea, and usually NGD takes ideas like these and uses them as examples to do their own changes.

All aside, I do believe CC's should be changed somehow if NGD's going to change most spells to 10 seconds like AoO.

Well I can still use my FAST 30 (ex fast 25), still having better dps than slow and medium bows, 30 meters is max (non buffed) range actually on Ra, I don't consider it as close.
Anyway I am not saying that fast bows have high dps, the simply have better dps than slow and medium, while the range loss is quite insignificant, this make the last ones useless.
Hope they change something to Dex formula.

The way reveal works is just as you say; however, the duration ranges from 20 seconds at lvl 1 to 80 seconds at lvl 5 - a nice range is lvl 3 at 35 seconds. The individual cannot re-camo or re-stalker until the duration of the spell wears off (unless a mage dispells reveal).

Clearing of forts will be able to be done by 2 hunters just using reveal since reveal works in an arch at about range 30.

Great post...and so so true. You'll see less and less pet based hunters because there's far more fun things for hunters to use in a support role. Also, pets can't camo. Current they can move with hunter under stalker - but Ponter pointed out that they are fixing that.

You are going to see less and less pet hunters due to the support spells that hunters now have. Do you have a hunter? Cause I have a hunter and a marks - I've tested damage and my marks has far more sustained damage than my hunter. It is clear they are moving hunters more towards support.

The only spell we have that gives us any offense is cold blood - which if you want it you can have it :P 6 seconds and 300 mana where most the spells you use are going to be resisted...isn't worth it.

Anyone got a level 50 knight and want to try this?

Too bad that my knight was deleted on Amun aswell. xD

Pets are near useless.
If you use camouflage you lose pet, if you don't camo and don't use any surprise a warju or warlock will kill your pet in seconds, your damage is lower, you don't have barrier, you can't auto-heal, your new range is worse for your pet...barbarians will buff as they see you and kill your pet, knights resist a lot, and the two now have same or more speed....

So, as I see If I use pet I'm more useless in a war than before, If I'm hunting skin of the beast is as necessary as UM for barbs.
If I don't use pet I need to use an area (OP vs barbarian's areas) to kill one player and confuse to level things (bad for conjus). Cold blood is like 3 more hits, and you lose time buffing, it was better to use dual shot as it was before the nerf.

I also don't see any fun thing in the new support role, I prefer the dynamism of conjurers and knights.

I just logged onto Amun and tried. I would be very disappointed with this if this were the "answer" to a reduced AO1. One major problem is I cant give anyone any hard numbers on how (in)effective this combination is because the "miss"es they cause in combat don't show up in the log, they're like phantom swings except the word "miss" flashes above your head. Basically, this is no solution, Precise Block in it's current incarnation on the live servers would seem to be about equal in effectiveness as this 500+ mana combination. I don't think I'm exagerrating by saying that. Also, this combination will only last less than 30 seconds for any knight, as both of those abilities are 1-second cast, and awareness has a 90-second cooldown.

Pets are not going to be useless at all. theres no reason why you cant set yourself up to be a Beast Master type archer and drop your stealth abilities. Do you really need to scream out tracks when there are 20 other hunters doing the same thing.

The problem is that many players are so focused on thier own damage that they neglect the skills in the pets tree. there are some godly defensive buffs and passives in the pet tree and not to mention the all powerful Beastial Wrath. A fully buffed pet in like a Ao1 knight doing 500 normals if you've ever fought one. you seriously wont even need to use a bow for this setup. i want to level a hunter up just to play with this style

And seeing the hunter coming is really irrelevant... we see every other class coming and they dont complain about that. The point of this update is for hunters to decide between being an Assassin or Beast Master and not have the best of both worlds

I did test storebought slow30 vs my epic slow30, average damage of 30shots to same target.

slow30 from store = 284.8average 100-124 +13

slow30 epic = 301.7average 108-132 +18 +11 +12 +13 +1dex

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8949/bowfight.png

as you can see, that epic bow is WAY better but damage is only ~17more

so if this goes like this to live, then FUUuuuuuu :(

I've tried them both (together at the same time) along with Precise Block 5.

Sad to say, all still a waste of power points. The only genuine difference I noticed was one or two "miss" over my head (instead of evade) in the string of a several dozen attacks by 3 enemies helping me test (most of which made it through).

One other note, currently on Amun, the build I figured for my knight is so simplistic, I can for the first time since I hit 50 on him, play with just two hotbars and not keep the spellbook open for additional abilities.

Versatility seems to be making way for simplicity and cookie-cutter singularized purpose. And not to mention, a really nice epic weapon is doing 17 more damage than a normal store-bought of the same speed/range/class?

...yikes. This *will* really hurt platinum box sales---bad.

The funny thing is, you can still add all your characters as friends....and you can see their stats in the war status. Nice try Daar :P

And just a suggestion to NGD, could stat gems be added as well? (ie dex gem, str gem, consti gem...etc) That in combination with a lowering of premium gem cost may well help make up for box losses.

I fear this spell will be only usefull against dots like lightning or ice blast and nobody will use it. Maybe make it a situational spell too, like +80% armor, 10 duration, 25 cd or sth like that.

Tested this on my low knight with mobs, still no effect noticed.

Still useless. Only very small dps increase.

Good. 90% were a joke lol.

Good.


I love the duration and cd but mana costs are too high. Awareness and preparation could be improved as well as blocking spells.

Hm useless i guess.

Great.

Pets should die or whatever, otherwise its like the old camo + ambush + conf + pet. Beside that: Awesome!

Nice.

Deleted characters are not removed from clan lists, friend lists, rp list, etc.
Same goes for people who used the character transfers to Horus.

So far i like the update but please make barbarians less dependant on buffs and add some dynamics:
- Improve Overwhelming Strength
- Make Berserk something like 15 secs durations and 40secs cooldown
- Change Thirst for Blood to an activable spell like Recharged Arrow
- Lower duration and cooldown of Unstoppable Madness
- Lower mana costs

I leave the balancing to Ngd, but i think this is needed to make barbarians gameplay more enjoyable.

Now I tested epic vs storebought agaisnt trolls, and storebought hits 10~MORE than epic :O I had to check my calculations 3 times before I believed it :P

I really really hope that there is some bugs, 186max vs 137max weapons should never hit like that :lightsabre:

Aaah crap petless will become harder now :(

While you are on Hunters NGD, Skin of the Beast damage reduction should not be up to 90% for 30 seconds.

60 or 70% on 5 should make this power more balanced.

Skin of the Beast is waaaay too much on level 5. A hunter can (with this new point system) comfortably configure to have lvl 5 Natural Armor, lvl 5 Skin of the Beast - who cares about beastial wrath...the damage added isn't much due to initial damage of the pet now anyway. But protecting him like that is waaay over the top. - You make the pet virtually unkillable for 30 seconds.

One think at all this confusing 237467236 ideas:
Maybe i am too stupid but for me this not have sense:
-Why slow bows make lowets dmg like fast bows?

Slowest shot must make more dmg in my opinion.
Is like two handet sword and one handet.

i like all f those ideas except for the change for berzerk, berzerk imo should stay as it is. 15 seconds would make it really tough to use effectively. i would accept it if we didnt also get nerfed in dmg (along with everyone else)

Its like 0.2 sec difference between bow speeds, it used to be like 0.6-0.7 in difference before the ranged attack speed increase.

Yes. 10char.