RNG update at Amun!
 

We're very happy to let you know that we now have a first testeable version at Amun, available for everyone!

This server will be opening today, between 9 and 10 pm GMT. Stay tuned, and any kind of feedback you may want to share, please post it in this thread.

Keep in mind that this is just a work in progress, and NOT a final version.


In the game version available at Amun, you'll find a series of changes related to, as the title suggests, RNG. This means Random Number Generator, and it's basically a generator of random numbers that defines whenever a power must be resisted or not, or whether or not an attack must be evaded/blocked.

You'll notice, when in combat, a very pronounced difference regarding this system, that aims to make combat as free from luck factors as possible, rewarding the witty user that better administrates and uses his/her abilities. This will be fully achieved when we modify powers in all classes so they can both enhance and counter this new probabilities.
Although factors such as resistance and evades will still be present in a pure random way, they will NOT do so with the frequency you're all acustomed to and frustrate most players.
In this version you'll see that these results will mostly be obtained by using powers, with both the ones that grant absolute resistance/evade/block, and those that porcentually boost up your resistance/evade/block chances.

Due to the nature of this changes, and as we mentioned before by saying that this is a work in progress, the balance between subclasses has been affected, which is why adjustments will be necessary. We're counting on your feedback on this when you start playing pvps and group battles!

You'll also notice that, as Evasion chances are now porcentual (as block and spell resistance now do), the "Hit Chance" attribute does NOT longer exists. There is now a new attribute named "Critical Damage", that allows the user to enhance the damage dealt when landing a Critical hit, whether by equipping items with this modifier, or by buffing up with powers.


Remember that this is a work in progress, and there's still a few things to include that go from power adjustments all the way to giving more info at the character sheet.

We're looking forward to read your feedback!

Best Regards!


Current changelog (11/05):

Gameplay - System:
- Modified: Realm walls can be recaptured (only by the defending realm).
- Modified: Hit Chance removed, replaced with Critical Chance, which raises the chance shown in the Character Sheet.
- New: Statistical RNG system for combat. Indicated chances now should be accurate both in the short and long run.
- New: When you're attempting an Invasion (vulnerated a realm) and you die in its Realm Wall Door zone, you can choose to respawn in any of its Forts or Castle that you still have captured.
- Fixed: Realm Gem interactions were not being properly accounted, causing player to interact more than once.
- Modified: Companions are no longer selectable. This is to avoid accidental clicks during battle.
- Fixed: Player automatic disconnection when not moving was avoided by rotation.
- Fixed: Falling damage was interrupted when changing character or exiting the game, allowing to avoid it.
- Fixed: Multirealming detection for quest objectives (noble) and Invasions rewards.
- Modified: Wall Trapdoors can be used by invaders to get out of the realm when the vulneration/invasion ends.

- Modified: Each fort has its own camp to be used for resurrections when vulnerating a Realm. Fort camps are approximately at 2:45 from the Wall and 1:15 from the Fort. Castle camps are at 2:00 from the Wall, making them more strategic to have captured.

• Aggersborg: x:2371 z:2589
• Trelleborg: x:1371 z:2808
• Imperia: x:2176 z:2019
• Samal: x:3402 z:2400
• Menirah: x:3565 z:1464
• Shaanarid: x:4274 z:2521
• Herbred: x:2933 z:3577
• Algaros: x:2038 z:3375
• Eferias: x:2935 z:4065

Note: Camps still have no visual props or modified terrain. As soon as their location is confirmed we will do it.

- New: Reward System. Allows to get a reward for holding, recovering, invading or avoiding invasions.

When a fort is captured, a counter will appear. When the counter finishes, a reward is given. It can be gold from the Chest of the fort and/or Warmaster Coins.

There is a maximum amount to be received per player. For example, if a fort gives 15000 Warmaster Coins with a max of 400, and there are only 10 allies around, everyone will get 400. If there is 50 allies, everyone will get 300.

If you see the counter, you will get the reward. The counter can disappear for inactivity of the player or for being far from the building (specifically, the flag).

If the Relic Counter starts and that counter is lower than the Reward Counter, this last one will cut time to equal the Relic Timer, in order to avoid having to wait for the Reward.

Gameplay - Skills:
- Fixed: Retaliation now reflects spell damage.
- Fixed: Retaliation doesn't wear off with unsuccessful hits.
- Fixed: Avoiding "Relic Intensity" when picking up a Relic with "Dismount" active.

Warrior:
- Martial Reflexes: Critical Chance changed to 100%/135%/170%/225%/300%. Duration changed to 40/50/60/70/100.
- Rigorous Preparation: Opponent Critical Chance changed to: -15%/-20%/-25%/-30%/-40%. Opponent Miss Chance changed to Evasion Chance: 25%/40%/55%/70%/100%. Cooldown changed to 90 seconds.

Knight:
- Precise Block: Mana cost updated to 90/110/140/170/200. Cooldown changed to 45 sec.
- Challenge: Opponent Hit Chance changed to Opponent Spell Resistance -25%/-40%/-55%/-70%/-100%. Added Opponent Concentration -10%/-15%/-20%/-25%/-30% Duration changed to 5/5/10/10/15.

Barbarian:
- Threat: Miss Chance changed to Opponent Evasion Chance: 20%/30%/40%/60%/80%.
- Challenging Roar: Hit Chance changed to Casting Speed: 10%/15%/20%/25%/30%. In level 5 adds Spell Resistance 50%. Duration changed to 40 seconds. Cooldown changed to 120 seconds.
- Sprint: Movement Speed changed to: 15%/20%/25%/30%/35%. Added Range Received Damage: -30%/-30%/-30%/-60%/-60%. Mana cost changed to 100/120/140/160/180. Cooldown changed to 40 seconds.

Archer:
- Rapid Shot: Hit Chance changed to Critical Chance: -50%.
- Duelist: Hit Chance changed to Critical Chance.
- Hinder: Opponent Hit Chance changed to Opponent Damage Bonus: -2%/-4%/-6%/-8%/-10%.
- Finesse: Opponent Hit Chance changed to Opponent Critical Chance: -10%/-25%/-40%/-60%/-90%. Duration changed to: 10/15/20/25/30.
- Dodge: Evasion Chance changed to 30/35/40/60/90.
- Evasive Tactics: Hit Chance changed to Damage Bonus: -2%/-4%/-6%/-7%/-8%.
- Cat Reflexes: Evade Chance changed to: 5%/10%/15%/20%/25%.
- Spell Elude: Spell Resistance changed to: 20%/50%/90%/140%/200%.
- Escapist: Cooldown raised to 75 seconds.
- Eagle's Eyes: Hit Chance changed to Opponent Evade Chance: -10%/-15%/-20%/-25%/-35%.
- Point Shot: Hit Chance changed to: 130%/140%/150%/160%/180%. Added Attack Range: -30%/-25%/-20%/-10%/-0%.
- Retaliation: Cooldown changed to 30 seconds. Mana cost changed to 120/140/160/180/200.

Marksman:
- Focus: Spell Focus changed to Opponent Spell Resistance -25%/-30%/-35%/-40%/-50%.
- Killer Instinct: Hit Chance changed to Opponent Evasion Chance: -100%. Added Attack Range +15%. Can only be casted in Fort Wall Walks and high zones of Castles.
- Hawk's Gaze: Hit Chance changed to Opponent Evade Chance: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%/-50%.
- Trained Eye: Hit Chance changed to Critical Chance: 10%/30%/50%/70%/100%.
- Finger Crush: Hit Chance changed to Attack Speed.

Mage:
- Protection Dome: Spell Resist Chance changed to Absolute Spell Resist Chance: 3%/6%/10%/16%/25%. Duration changed to: 20.
- Curse: Opponent Hit Chance changed to Opponent Critical Chance: -10%/-15%/-20%/-25%/-30%. Opponent Spell Focus changed to Opponent Damage Bonus: -2%/-4%/-6%/-7%/-8%.
- Blindness: Miss Chance changed to Opponent Evasion Chance: 50%. Duration changed to 10/15/20/25/30 seconds.
- Bless: Hit Chance and Spell Focus changed to Casting Speed and Attack Speed: 5%/5%/7%/7%/10%. Duration changed to 30/60/90/120/150 seconds. Cooldown changed to 15 seconds.

Warlock:
- Petrify Hands: Hit Chance changed to Critical Chance.
- Sadistic Guards: Spell Resistance changed to -30%/-40%/-50%/-70%/-100%. Duration changed to 60/55/45/35/30 seconds. Mana cost changed to 140/155/160/175/190.

Conjurer:
- Resurrect: Removed Hit Chance.
- Shifting Silhouette: Opponent Miss Chance changed to Evade Chance: 15%/30%/45%/60%/100%. At level 5, gives -10% Ranged Received Damage and +10% Melee Received Damage. Cooldown changed to 80 seconds. Cast on self only. Mana cost changed to 220/260/300/340/380.

Interface:
- Added: Character Sheet now allows to expand attributes to see: Spell Resistance, Health and Mana Regeneration, Movement Speed, Combat Range and Casting Speed Bonus.
- Added: Skill status of "Only blockable / resistable at 100%". This already existed for several skills but was not being mentioned in the tooltip.
- Added: When damage is reflected, now it's shown in the Combat Log after the spell or hit damage as "Reflected [X damage]" or "R[X]" if shortened combat log option is on.
- Modified: World Map height raised for it to show all forts and castles in default centered view.

Client - Sounds:
- Fixed: Ambient sounds sometimes were not being removed. Also, "Desert Wind" sound adjusted to something more tolerable.

Minor Fixes/Tweaks

Gameplay - System:
- Added: Experience reward for players with level lower than 60 when holding/recovering a fort/castle or defending a realm wall. Initially (not final numbers) the reward is handed this way:
Fort: 100 exp base.
Castle: 150 exp base.
Realm Wall: 200 exp base.

Levels from 1 to 19:
Base x 0.5 x Level (IE: A level 15 would get for defending a realm wall 200 x 0.5 x 15 = 1500 exp)
Levels from 20 to 39:
Base x 0.75 x Level (IE: A level 30 would get for holding a castle 150 x 0.75 x 30 = 3375 exp)
Levels from 40 to 59:
Base x Level (IE: A level 50 would get for holding a fort 100 x 50 = 5000 exp)

Most things appear to be pretty good in the update. However, there are a few problems..

1) Stacking critical damage gear and spells can result in some ridiculous crit damage, for example, i made a new marksman and used the code to get to level 60 (so it had no amulet and rings) and managed to get around 1050ish as crit damage. Obviously this is quite concerning in regards to people with dragon amulets and boss jewelery, it could probably get to something as ridiculous as 1500 critical damage or even more. (perhaps adding -Critical damage to boss jewelery is a good solution? Just throwing that out there)

2) Since evasion is shown as a percentage now, I got to see how much feline reflexes (+15% Evasion passive) actually effects evade chance, the answer is not much at all. Instead of giving +15% Evasion chance, it takes 15% of the current evasion chance you have and adds it onto the end. So if you have 5% evasion chance, getting feline reflexes only increases it to 5.75%, definetly not worth getting, and is a useless spell.


That's all I have for now, I will reply again if I find anything else. Rest of the update is looking good so far

Nice. It looks promising.

Please, take a look at crit dmg boss rings.

rol vs. ring of earth (critical damage)
http://imgur.com/a/RQ2jn

Should be at least +34 crit damage instead of +34% crit damage imo :) atm this ring is still useless (same with desert one).

You need to do tests with a full set of dmg jewelry... and please make concentration attribute useful.



<EDIT> Finesse (Tricks) Target hit chance -10% xD

I am very worried for the change from Hit Chance to Critical Damage. Many spells have been changed, looking op now. Items, like rings, gauntlets and arrows, have been changed to more op now too. +hit_chance gems have also changed to +critical_damage.

http://s11.postimg.org/dgy31yxs3/scr...7_09_27_52.jpg

I logged in for just 5 mins to mess up with it a bit. If I think of it more, I ll exploit the system even more. You can readily build a Critical_Damage_Setup having a damage like the above one and a critical chance of 40% (20s/45s) with Point Shot on.

I am afraid game (or at least the jeweled marksman aspect of the game) became even more unbalanced with this change. It is a Critical_Damage_Fest now. In my opinion, it needs further adjustment.

Considering the RGN, it looks more robust now. Good job on that NGD :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sskd...ature=youtu.be

I made new character, marksman.
900+ crits with this crazy setup (no armors, no ring, no amu).

<EDIT> Hunter: https://youtu.be/QqIY2OxgZ8A

Don't make the crit bonus too op :/ I am also worried.

I am also disappointed you have decided to review rng and not boss jewellery.

I don't think we need any dmg boosts at all atm, for non mage classes at least.
Once again massive boost for warrior/archers.

Any info on spell focus? Don't have any class with spell focus spells on amun right now.

Miss chance spells should be reworked as well?

I didn't notice any change in resistance (at least on oc mobs).

http://i.imgur.com/syEIVfa.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/oOaJSGu.jpg?1


So many resists.

Yup.

Are you serious? Playing lock has become so damn annoying with the RNG in its current state. Not only do I have armour like a cloth sack, but I can't even protect myself with spells to fend off rushing barbs thanks to resists.
The RNG took priority of jewels for a good reason. It was literally game breaking for mages that rely on 100% spells and not normal attacks.
I don't own boss jewellery any more, and I don't care if it never gets looked at, because I can still kill them. Pretty tired of people complaining about it, too.

People, it's a work in progress, as correctly noted at the first post.

There are tons of changes to do, and a lot of OP situations to analyse. This is a big step and we want your participation. Please avoid taking everything as "final" and "unmodifiable". This will demand a lot of changes in spells, and hopefully will remove the speculative part of the game which made lots of people quit because of frustration.

Let's work together. It's of no use to foresee doom or bash us "just because". Let's move forward and please test the chances in the short, mid and long run with unbuffed characters.

Making crits stronger is no fix at all, with barbs and archers crit damage will just be too strong. I can already see the complaining if this is brought to live servers

I agree. Just make current HC on gear some sort of small unimportant bonus or just remove it all together.

Great, this sounds very interesting, I cant wait to see the new system in action.

It's looking very nice so far. Less resists overall, well a lot less compared to live server with a few here and there. But on area spells, I found it to be less effective, intended?

http://i.imgur.com/JfrWFeH.jpg

One more:

http://i.imgur.com/80y9zDN.jpg

Best thing I see is evade chance being relative now, and hit chance removed. I would not have thought of that, but seems like a good solution to me. Why don't you guys also apply the same change to spell resistance vs. spell focus aka concentration? Spell resistance + focus is not stated anywhere in the character window, too. It'd be really awesome if all attributes would be equally useful one day.

crit dmg as a new stat is cool, but does it really have to be on every weapon as hit chance used to be? I mean, it does not really matter how you get it.. but if it were a unique, new bonus, ppl would surely start buying boxes.

this problem does not only exist for feline reflexes, it is rather a global problem. Crit chance (legendary item bonus) also only increases the current crit chance value, making it an absolutely useless bonus.
Also, evade chance is still shown as an absolute bonus on items (e.g. my tunic had "Evasion chance +7", while, according to the new system, it should be "Evasion chance +7%", right?).

havent tested the rng thingy yet

cheers
blauhirn

WTF NGD :wub2:

This sounds very nice! A critical hit should do be painful :gun_bandana: - so the damage seems okay.

But I'd like to see some negative affects of boosting crit dmg, perhaps less attack speed or less movement speed or both?

The opportunity of a crit build sounds very nice, indeed. But please, no boss jewellery insane crit monster.


...mhm, maybe I give Regnum a new try?

AND: critical hits for mages too!


thx

Hi, can you also give us mounts in this testinsta60 code? Hard to test anything on level 2 monsters.

I cant even see Amun in the server list anymore, its been like that for a very long time.

Did you enable it in the launcher advanced options?

I think they hide it because some new players started there even though it says "experimental"

No, I just checked for it under options, advanced options look to me like it would only be used for graphical adjustments having the auto detect button on its left side.

Maybe its just me, but a job well done trying to hide it.

inb4 deleted post cuz of verbal abuse.
http://i.imgur.com/eMaPNE2.jpg?1
some of the areas are resisted very often and i think that is very zerg friendly.
and another advice for you: just remove resists and re-balance spells. Resists are most frustrating of all and shouldnt be in the game. Actually i didnt feel any difference on amun regarding resists.

Best,

Did you test AoE's on players?

Yea, i dont have it screened though. was there in amun for 2 hours, dunno if its occasional. i need exact information on how resists are calculated but that is nowhere to be found.

I've spent a good few hours testing on Amun now, mainly on my warlock. In my honest opinion there are still too many resists present. More than 1 resist in a single pvp is too many Imo. Like it has been mentioned above; remove random resists completely and add or rework some spells in each class to provide spell resistance. There is still too much of a luck factor as things are. A dev mentioned somewhere that the update is supposed to bring in more of a skill factor. As it stands, you can master your class in certain scenarios and make every right move but still end up dying, that's not right I'm afraid. NGD, balancing sub classes to the best of your ability and then throwing in the roll of a dice contradicts and negates that said balance. People will argue that if there are no resists it is too easy to chain spells. What is failed to be mentioned though is factoring in team play. In a game predominantly designed around RvR, why should you be able to roam around the warzone alone, stumble across a lock or a hunter, and resist your way out of trouble randomly. No consequence for the risk?

It doesnt matter much what situation you look at, resists affect both rvr and pvp and should be reduced. I played for a while and I find it odd that frozen storm get resisted often while ice blast and lightning never. If anything it should atleast be the other way round.

with enhanced crits and removed hit chance factor, the archer becomes an even more powerful class than they already are. You keep pushing that class more towards godmode and its time to put an end to it.

Archer. Max range 30 = everything is fine

Resist. Lower random resist or remove and give spells like sotw but in a weaker version as a counter spell to all classes. Some kind of basic spells. Short duration, long cd. Mini sotw, mini sprint, mini self heal.

I think it looks really good, i tried it some time as well and personaly i didnt have problems with the resists. Maybe you could ad a mechanic if a spell gets resisted the next one has 0%chance to resist. This way you can still resist important spells but at least you are sure the next one wont be able to get resisted.

The crit damage on archers is kinda over the top, i guess you noticed that already and since its a work in progress i expect that to change.
With that you could make concentration a more usefulls spell, on the live server 6 hc is more usefull on a weapon then 5 concentration. Didnt change i would really like to see something done there.

Besides that great work, i like the changes :)

Hit chance being turned into crit damage seems unnecessary imo. Hit chance had almost no effect with the old system, so hit chance spells/gems/gear was worthless. I'd be more inclined to replace hit chance with some value of evade % - rework the number a little and allow the class with the higher dexterity have substantially higher evades. Of course an archer who wants to max out their evade chance will do so at the cost of spells that increase damage or cc's, but that's all part of the balance.

Has anyone had any luck testing Warlock on amun?

I would much prefer NGD to remove resists/block/evade to rng, things like that should be tied to skills used. I think the worst thing is having someone resist your spells while they're standing still, or running away without even casting a spell.

You already have some spells in place for evading and blocking, I have seen the return of resists while someone is knocked as well. Let's face it the system makes no sense.

If we were to evade/resist/block/dodge I would rather it be tied to spells used.

I would also like to see a stat that benefits mages as well, more so warlocks that isn't cast speed or int/mana.

In one pvp vs a marksman 3 of my spells were resisted (not casted on SOTW). Warlock is therefore still not a viable class in the warzone imo. I have a Warmaster Lock and have spent enough time playing the class to know that even with the new RNG on Amun, the resist level is still not low enough for this class to not feel frustrating.

On the other hand...
 

I just toasted a few barbs at haven, even with some resist a barb has as much chance as a ice cube in hell against a lock in wz. With no resists its not even worth trying against lock/hunter as a melee class.

And i am sure a rusty lock.

/A

Alo.

Found some time to mess a little bit with new patch on Amun.

1. RNG seems working ok. There are some fancy situations from time to time, but it is quite good and robust in overall.

2. I get some weird results considering critical damage. In the photo below, i got a new (less fancy) setup this time, and got some (really few) hits on Dee. (Thank you Dee for being the dummy!)

As you can see, the "Ratio : Critical/Normal" can exceed even the "Worst Ratio : Max_Crit/Min_Normal" derived by character sheet. This could generally happen, but implies (at least) that the damage armor reduction is applied after the critical damage (?). If this is the case, it is weird in my opinion.

http://s2.postimg.org/mukoj89fd/Weir..._criticals.jpg

Anyway, just wanted to post it for further discussion. I repeat, RNG system seems better than the previous one.

Best,

can i just ask one thing

what was wrong with regnums RNG? It used to produce real random numbers, right? and now, it was changed so the chance for resist/evade/whatever-chains is smaller? so, ngd basically manipulated the probability?
as far as i know, people weren't really having a problem with how probability works but rather with the amount of resists in general, which used to be (and still is on liveserver) about 30% for non-damaging stun spells. Lowering the resist rate in general would have been enough, I'd say, but definitely necessary nevertheless.
since this is probably solved now, I shouldn't complain anyway. there is so much to do for ngd, I hope they'll get around to everything one day.

Can any1 give me an explanation how the RNG/resistrate works...? I cant find one anywhere. i dislike to estimate things, i need accurate results

As far as i understood, the previous RNG was working well in the long-term, but not in the short-term. So i guess they changed their algorithms to reach the expected probability in less hits, i.e. in short-term (check this).
Not really sure if they manipulate the probability, using any soft of conditional probabilities, but the new RNG systems seems to be more robust in the short-term than the previous one.

I don't think NGD will ever present the exact formulas, so as to avoid any game exploit by the user-base.

As Adrian said in a previous post, there is much work to be done yet. I doubt that this patch will come soon on live servers.

Current RNG favours the once with bad ping or something, so id rather call it RNGD.

It so obvious that players like candy, sylaedgon, bongee and zord etc (no offence) often have much higher resist rates than others.

It seemed to me that the old RNG was failing because the server couldn't keep with with the number of calls and so there were repeats in the RNG. Either that or NGD precalculates a nice long list of probabilities before hand and these are drawn from in order, but the issue being the server was too slow to allow a sync lock around the increment of which number is being drawn from and so what happens is multiple calls are made in quick succession and all receive the same random number result, since the increment from the first call hadn't been processed yet.

Either way it's fixable. I'm not 100% sure why the evade mechanics have been changed, if NGD agrees the underlying problem was the RNG then why bother changing the mechanics? Don't get me wrong, the way it used to work (still does on haven) wasn't ideal, HC had almost no value since the rate of evades is low and most of the time people aren't hitting normals.

I'd like HC brought back and for it to effect where the mean damage is (while keeping the same range). Higher hit chance increases the mean damage; moving it away from the median and towards the maximum.this would have to be based on a skewed probability distribution *but* this can be done with very few server cycles.

I was waiting for the expert to comment...! :D

Well i guess they assumed HC = 100% (absolute) for all players in order (maybe) to avoid the calculation "HC - Evasion" and alleviate the server computational burden? That could be a rational explanation, couldnt it?
And since they didnt know what to do with HC stat, they replaced it with Critical Damage.

If the only rational was reducing computational burden then we'll be back to playing pong at the next update. :P

Looking for values in a list/array is typically alot faster than calculating values. A million value long list of numbers can be precalculated and searched through in fractions of a second, typically much faster than doing any serious math operations. All of this seems to come to very little difference though since the RNG is changing.

My question: Should hit chance be changed to critical damage (as on test server) or be used as a method to shift the mean damage from normal hits? Whichever is best suited to the game mechanics should be chosen and code can be written and optimised to work within the constraints of the server.