Sexist Reloaded
 

OK, deep breath. I'll try to not lose my temper and start swearing at you
if you'll have the courage to not delete this post just because you can't
take critisizm. Deal?

The latest change to the walk animation for female characters carries with
it clearly suggestive (at best) or downright slutty (at worst)
connotations. This is sexist and demeaning to every female player of the
game. And the fact that you assumed that I wanted to send those signals to
every boy on the server and removed my choice to decide if and when i want
to be a sex object to somebody is, quite frankly, personally insulting. Had
this been a choice like waving, running, dancing I would still not approve
of the idea, but hey, I can live with it since I have the choice of saying
"I don't want to be a sex object to every guy on the server" (or do as the
case may be). You didn't give me that choice. You assumed that every girl
on the server wants to be a sex object for every teenage boy and impolite
adult male playing the game. Unrequested and innapropriate comments are
already a way of life in RO (less than other games admittedly). But now
you've added fuel to that fire. Thanks.

So, in summary, you have made a change to the game that:

1) Does absolutely nothing to enhance gameplay. 2) Forces (it's not an
option like dancing) the female players into behaving in a suggestive
manner with absolutely no regard to their desires or feelings. 3) Adds fuel
to something that is already a problem for every female Internet game
player (most play male characters exactly for that reason). 4) Is sexist,
demeaning and insulting.

So exactly what was this completely idiotic and inconsiderate change
supposed to accomplish?

Would it be OK to make all the male players walk in a really gay manner and
have to put up with sexual innuendo, ridicule and remarks? Didn't think so.
What makes you think that I appreciate your forcing me to behave that way?

Bah, I don't even know why I'm posting this. If any of you had an iota of
sensitivity or concern for the feelings of your female players this would
never have happened to begin with. Just more proof that you no longer care
about the people who play your game. Was the reason this change didn't sit
on Amun for weeks for people to see that you knew we'd be upset and didn't
care? Or was it a last minute, untested change that you just threw out
there without caring what it might do to gameplay or players feelings?
Either way it sure looks to me like you don't care at all about the user
community, especially the women.

Please either remove this worthless and insulting garbage change, or
provide me the alternative of converting my characters to male ones with
different names so that I can avoid acting like the slut you are forcing
the females to be.

Thank You

Jen

P.S.: Somebody at NGD owes the women of this game an apology for implying that we all want to be/act like little sex toys for the boy's amusement. Yes, it is a PERSONAL insult.

Hello,
It’s clear that you have a very extreme take on this...
I would like to see what other people have to say.
As I said before all of the character graphics are stylized, and not realistic.
Character designs have sexy/heroic proportions, especially female characters.
We are just trying to enhance the animations to follow that look.

1) This animation has better quality and expression, thus enhancing characterization and immersion (which does add to the gameplay).

2) We consider walking to be a secondary animation, there's actually no reason to walk in Regnum and that's why enhancing those animations has had such a low priority. To walk is only used to show off right now, so you can choose not to walk if you don't like how your character is showing off.

3) We are not aware of these comments that you are getting, as we have never received such complaints. Most of the female characters in Regnum are actually guys, so people should stop hitting on female characters unless they are looking for a big surprise.

4) We have no intention to insult anyone. If you look at other MMORPGs, Regnum has been much more respectful in these matters. To us it is more demeaning to only make animations for male characters and use the same for female characters just because there are less people using them.

We have consulted all women working at NGD's offices and none of them believe that this animation is over exaggerated or sexist.
We have also asked our friends and girlfriends about it, and even the most feminist said that the animation is fine.

I don’t know if I can change your opinion, I do hope however hope that you will at least understand our decision and not feel insulted or aggravated.

Best regards,

- Chilko

PS: Maybe there is a cultural difference, please understand that we are Argentineans and our version of “Dancing with the Stars” features Pole Dancing.

I don't agree with the new walking animation for girls, it's not nice for me, as a woman, seeing my character walking like a slut.
This game has something special, it's played by families, parents and sons, couples, older people and for a big amount of women. I'd not like this to become something like Lineage.


Pd: I'm From Argentina

and there was the marmots that packaged chocolate!

Last night i didn't really see any noticeable difference in the walk animation. I just assumed that NGD changed it back to original right away amid the calls of sexism.

Is the new walk still implemented? If so, i honestly didn't see anything bad about it, though it still looks more like marching than walking to me.

I'd like to hear more from the other female players from the game. We have a few from our clan. I'll post a link to this in our forums and hopefully they would give you a better idea of what they think. Personally, I don't care about the new animation, I find it funny but not offensive in any way. But I'm a guy so my vote doesn't count. :D

I agree with mikka and vicelica, i think that females walk like sluts.
As i said in spanish forum, the only result of the new walking of females is encourage men to be more harassing.

I think the same as Puppyn,mikka and vicelica,but as long as we have /ignore command i think i can live with it.

a support to mikkas claims:
a girl in my clan complained about the new animation as well.

Well, at first i'm a man playing female characters (at least on Ra, male on other places).

Before they weren't so many kiddies playing and there were no problem.

Now, you can't rest without a male char coming near imitating some sort of bj, other sitting on my dead body like they were f... me and a lot more....

So Chilko, 2 things to say :

- this change by itself, i don't find it offensive, the problem is some players who should get a g/f in real life.
- we asked for gender change as premium, we still don't have it, even with default skin it would be alright. :thumb_up:

For me they look like top models and they walk like top models.

Nope, not like sluts.

Ok,i noticed one thing: When i walk near enemy guards they still attack me (they obviously shouldnt),please fix this bug soon :angel2:

I agree with all of Mikka's sentiments entirely. That walk is wholly inappropriate.

Its time like these Im glad Im playing a male character instead of a female one (im a girl).
I ALWAYS play male characters because on games like these its very possible that you would come across come guy making sex conversation. D:
This new animation hasnt made the situation any better. I must admit Regnum isnt a game full of plebs who like to hit on female characters, in fact its better than all or most MMO's out there. But yeah, Im not actually anymore intrigued to play a female character as I was before.

I am sorry NGD but i have to agree with Mikka on this .
it is sexist/degrading/slutish and is a disgrace.
it is bad enough with the sexism that goes on in game,
i guess some countries have less respect for girls/females/woman and feel it is ok to treat females as sex objects /whores.
you have just told every guy on here that its ok to do so by introducing this movement into game.
and possibly put young females who do act a little slutish in possible path of
men who maybe less than honourable towards said females.

but as you say we run not walk most of the time so i will take the run option.
so as to avoid the sexist pig's that do unfortunately dwell in this game.

Regards

mmmm..... sexy! (?)

?

With all due respect m'ladies, 3 questions:

1. Please define and characterize "slutish walk", "inappropriate walk" and similar (so that NGD never fails you again);

2. Please define how such characteristics are perceived on a three dimensional female character that represents a: wood elf, half-elf, alturian, dwarf, goat... sorry, uthgar, nordo, dark-elf, esquelio and molok (perhaps a molok "slutish walk" might be different from a nordo one, NGD should know about it too);

3. Please define how such characteristics are interpreted when the same characters goal is, by game definition, to kill adversaries (I do recall someplace where something like "though shall not kill" and "though shall not sin by acts and omissions" is written, but my memory fails me)...

If the discussion is the appropriate age to which this game is recommended fine by me.

Otherwise...

?

P.S. If you play an Ignean female character and a male character harasses you please tell him something like "My female character will make your male character very happy if you return with the heads of 10.000 enemies until the end of the day." Thank you, all motivations aren't enough!

P.P.S. My commentary isn't naive, I do understand "body language" (actually is an important part of one of my hobbies). But it's a human language conveyed by more signs then a stylized walk of a game character.

well, I checked out walking animation for female chars again. For my female dwarf it looked not that slutish but when I saw my female Nordo archer without armor walking I realy thought it is a bit over the top. Breasts and the back are shaking a bit too much maybe.

But as chilko said it is more or less a kind of show off when you walk. It has to look a bit arrogant. Same as it is looks for walking male characters.

I don't know if you could call is sexist. Women naturaly have another style of movement in walking than men.
That's why I am ok with the way female chars walk. We are talking about a game after all. Characters are not realistic. They are created in a comic style and are supposed to overemphasize typical movements and behaviours.


but what I realy find sexist is the way how female characters are sitting down to rest. You can look under the skirt of them with horizontal camera view. See screenshots.

I have noticed "the walk" that the females here are refering to. I myself have female characters, and you can avoid the whole walking part............ so you DO have a choice, I could see how it would be percieved as a "sexist" thing, but, you DO have the option not to see the walk. Now, on behalf of the females that play, when entering cities, or going into cities, this could be a problem for some females....... as cities tend to cause most folks to lag horribly .. still ........ on that note, I fully understand where the females are coming from. It does look somewhat "suggestive".

I think that your comment is quite degrading for us and our culture as Argentineans.

We just tried to make the walk more feminine, not slutty.
I don't see anything bad about a woman being feminine... do you?
Is that being sexyst? or machist?

I have recieved more requests from women asking for their mage female characters to wear shorter tunics with clevage and to make animations more feminine.

I wouldn't say that Argentina is an extremely machist country, we might be more obsessed with the female image though... the truth is that most nice looking women in Argentina walk like that.
As a proof of the important role of women in our society we actually have a Female president (people say she is kinda cute), and she walks like that... do not insult my president! :)

This is a very subjective matter... but we feel quite proud of the visual improvement this animation represents compared to the one that was in place before.

I am still listening to what people have to say on this matter.

Best regards,

- Chilko

I agree with Mikka but I do not feel offended since I believe there was no offence intended by NGD guys. But I think it should be change, because now they know.

I do not like the new female walking. But I guess we get use to see these kind of things on videogames, so my reaction over the years have changed form outrage to I do not care any more.
I am a woman, and all my characters are female. They all are kind of based on me, even those which I roleplay a lot and have different behaviour and personalities, they are all based on me somehow.
I know nothing about "sexy/heroic proportions" or "better quality and expression" or "enhancing characterization and immersion" so I will just explain this the best I can:
I do not like to see my virtual self walking like that, it does not enhance immersion for me.

IMHO.

Thank you for your speedy reply, however you seem to have mis understood a major part of what i said.

I did not imply Argentina was a sexist country at all, I said some countries are.

I still stand by what i said about the walking for the female character been innappropriate

Regards

I think it's quite reasonable to give women a feminine walk. But the walk is (avoiding words like "slutty") a strut more than it is a walk. A woman needs to try extra hard to walk like that.

Let's see if I can conjure up enough rope to hang myself with. First of all, I am 100% in agreement with any women, or any person for that matter, who feels wronged and speaks out about it. But, I don't think I would have even noticed the new 'walk' if it had not been pointed out to me. Now that I have seen it I can honestly say it looks a little 'Hollywood'. I'm hoping not to sound too perverted when I say I have the sexual appetite of any other normal male, but I don't think it's poosible to make a cartoon character 'sexually desirable' to me. However, if the majority of females feel they are being insulted by this then I have to support them. I don't feel that a change back to the way they were or to something less objectionable to women in general will enhance or regress gameplay in any noticable way.

I saw the animation today and tried walking beside it, they walk like the same but I don't see the breasts and boobs shaking that much (maybe I should check on an archer or a warrior).

But now I also see from NGDs point of view why it's like that, feminine is good, slutty is not, I guess it's a cultural matter, but if people are getting harrassed because of an animation I think it should be changed, you won't know you need to ignore them before they insult you.

I think it's wrong to call NGD for sexists though before they've given an explanation. If a lot of women walk like that in argentina, did the spanish section of this forum react to this animation?

About the animation: I know that ngd wants a cartoon like stile for the game, but if women fell offended maybe its a good option to go for a 'less feminine' walk.

@AwD, iirc boobs dont shake at all in this game (and they never should imho)


-semi-offtopic.

I was wondering... why improve the walking animation for female chars? it's kinda secondary.. i mean that, our chars always hit in the same way.. my char does the same movements to knock someone down that for going berserk.. our warriors use rapiers like kitchen knifes..

It would add a lot more to the 'gameplay' to improve the fighting animations (and add more) than a walking animation.

Why do all my barb hits look exactly the same? why i never swing my hammer (or mace, there are lack of weapon and armor variety in some levels) horizontally?

That would add a lot more to the 'gameplay' than a walking animation, because everybody runs here, theres no point to walk, but we spend 99% of our game time killing things.. mobs.. surak.. players.. ourselves.. mobs.. players.. surak... mobs.. and getting killed.. mobs with sotw.. surak.. players.. valorius.. water.. valorius..

You said that ngd is trying (or going to) improve all the anims in the game.. probably you made this one and not other first to see what the community thinks about it.. (im almost sure..) as you said somewhere and current walking anim (past for females) was way too un detailed to live together with the current one, but then.. why not wait a few days or weeks and let the player choose how she wants to walk?

Let them change it when they want. Are you forcing the players to give their opinions about it so they dont just use the other and do not give any feedback?

It would add a lot more to gameplay to let the player choose when they want to 'flirt' and when not, why i can not 'flirt' only when a certain player or character in near and not always? You know we love to play these stupid (and sometimes fun) little games. Like running around them all the time.

actually theotherhiveking has a good point here :p

I really dislike the new walking. I totally don't walk like that. Please use a casual walking animation, not a top-model-like one. Start with feet on two lines and not just one.

A little offtopic answer from me here. I do not feel harassed but I must say that some boys in this (and in any) game can not chat without flirting or even writing offensive statements as a joke. Last week there was a thread on the Spanish Inn asking "If you find an enemy girl, would you kill her?", amazingly some people answer that the would not.
If I have 1 Ximerin for every time I read "Are you a real girl?" follow by "do you have a boyfriend?" I would have lots of premium :sifflote: .
I do not care about all this, I am a grown up woman and I know some boys playing this game are teenagers and they mean no harm, they are just in "that age".
These situations are older than this walking feature and they have nothing to do with this new animation, but the animation may encourage this behaviour.

I do not think there is a sexist behaviour from NGD, I do not like the animation because I feel it is a little overdone. I am Argentinian and I agree that some models/cheap-celebs walks like that, but I do not think they are a good example to follow. Furthermore, I do not think a police woman walking like that inspire respect.
And yes, I think the animation movement is better and more realistic :thumb_up: , but I rather to walk like a female warrior than a cute princess.

I think its hot..the end xDDD Well done NGD xD:thumb_up:

I do not mind it much (and yes i am female)

I realize my in game avatar isnt even close to a true representation of myself anyways, and however/whoever decides to judge me on in game appearance alone..rather than by my personality..thats their weakness not mine.

either way though, i would still like the overall majority to prevail, whatever that may be, but there are more important game design flaws IMO that need to be adressed, and i would like the devs to focus on them, rather than the cosmetic and polish, till they have as stable and balanced game as possible :)

well geez, let ngd focus on other things and till that time, just not walk :p it's not hard to avoid it since we mostly run

Now that i've seen the new walk, yes, i think it's over the top slutty. Many players agreed with me in game when i made the observation.

These females are killers, not runway models/street walkers.

Tone it down a bit, and it could be ok.

People actually walk in this game? :huh:

My two cents, Off-topic:
Seriously though, I showed the new walk to a girl I know who used to play and she shrugged saying "Most other games are an order of magnitude worse". I can agree with that, for the most part. I can't even count the number video games that have the excessive "jiggle" factor. TBH this sort of crap gives gamers in general a bad name.

On-topic:
As far as Regnum is concerned, I believe NGD has been for the most part fairly tasteful (minimal jiggliness, fully clothed character models). But, I am not a woman and if the ladies of Regnum think it's offensive then I believe NGD should consider reverting walking to its previous animation, or modifying it.

It is funny how NGD claim they are a community based game, when it is clear that alot of women and men do not like this new feature, yet they continue to defend themselves and continue to be stubborn and say they are right and we are wrong. To me that doesn't sound like community based developers but developers that tell the community what they want. NGD you have lost a lot of respect with this new update, I would advise you start reversing some of the mistakes you have put into the game.

I cannot concur with that. As you may already know, I'm from Argentina (specifically from Buenos Aires), so I speak from experience. I have a sister, a mother and female friends too, and not a single one of them walks like that, at least 99% of the time. When they want to flirt around or in special occasions like parties they may walk with a more suggestive innuendo.

There's no reason to plead your arguments by hiding behind an image of beauty that not everyone shares. Keep politics and everything that resembles that off the game, please, and go straight to the point. Having a female president doesn't makes ourselves less male-centered, nor it does reflect what every women in the world wants. You know, I wouldn't want my sister to be all plastic and botox...

HAHAHAHAHA, I never thought of the gender of the person I kill, my first thought is the class XD damn, good this thread exists, now we know who the girls are and who the posergirls are *wips eyebrows*kidding XD
[color]
I do not think there is a sexist behaviour from NGD, I do not like the animation because I feel it is a little overdone. I am Argentinian and I agree that some models/cheap-celebs walks like that, but I do not think they are a good example to follow. Furthermore, I do not think a police woman walking like that inspire respect.
And yes, I think the animation movement is better and more realistic :thumb_up: , but I rather to walk like a female warrior than a cute princess.[/QUOTE]
what I meant was, does a regular citizen walk like that, cheap celebs or models doesn't really count in my head and I don't like the slutty/cheap/snobby behaviour some of them have.
I think I need to watch an archerwoman do the walk instead as they've always worn a short skirt.

A warrior woman, hm, let's look at how xena walks XD?

A heroic walk though, shooting your chest forward probably applies to a male, but a female, people get a second kind of thought when this happens, So maybe not xena anyway, but we need something like wonder woman, superwoman etc. And maybe see how they walk when they need to show off, then ngd can have their heroic walk for females, the users won't feel harrassed about how their characters walk and we would all be happy, yay \o/.

I also think the female walk is over the top for many reasons. There are quite young people who play this game for one. also i think it is pretty degrading they way the female char walks to be honest. (i have seen worse in other games but i dont play them).

As stated, there is not a large community of females in this game and for those that are here, i think this new walk animation is totally unnecessary.

Chilko, you replied to Ladylanuna saying what she had said was degrading to your country when she did not whatsoever.
Personally i think more thought should have been given in your reply or a better idea maybe would to have let Kailer Our Community Manager deal with the matter and not yourself.

To finish, this is partly the reason this has happened

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...696#post480696

Way to Alienate your community NGD well done, congratulations :fury:

(I dont know why I even bothered writing this as nothing will be done about it)

The new animation rock's ^^
And why u call it walk like slut?
To be honest models walk same ....

While this is a valid argument, I'm not sure it's such a big deal because:
- Most people in Regnum run, it'd be a waste of time to walk.
- Compared to other MMORPGs, this is nothing.
- If you run all the time, no one will notice this new animation. I didn't, except that people here pointed it out.