Escaping a fight using Stalker Suroundings
 

Ok, we have reached some kind of balance with the camo spell.

Now we don't have to put up with the annoyance of hunters casting sow/camo with impunity and escaping almost every tight spot.

And the camo spell has now become what it was intended for: an ambush attack spell.

So everything is fine, isn't it?

Actually, no, i don't think it is.

Because there is another invisisble spell, 'Stalker surroundings', which does not get cancelled by evaded hits (i'm not even sure if it gets cancelled by hits that actually hit) and i am seeing this being used ever more frequently as a means of escape in the same way that the annoying sow/camo combination was previously used.

The way i see it, stalker surroundings, like camo, is an ambush attacking spell, and certainly not an escape spell.

Therefore, i believe it should be cancelled by any attack, even evaded ones, just like camo is now...

Well i think its fine as it is now. They suggested the same in the spanish forums but the problem of stalker surroudings is everyone knows you are there and everybody knows you are unable to move.

Except hunters and maybe conjurers everyone has a cheap area spell to cast while you are invisible, if there is more than 1 you are dead for sure.

So casting stalker to escape its stupid since you are there and you are unable to move, your enemy will just use area spells and you will die anyway.

Don't you think that it is a little bit paranoid? This guy can't move. You know where he is. And it is YOUR fault that you have no area :P
All he can do is cast sotw and run. But it is not good idea :] So what is the problem? Usually i cast my camu or stalker and wait.

I don't agree that a hunter on 100 hp can cast sow then stalker whilst several enemies attack him, and live!...

Is it possilbe to log out under stalker? (I dont know)

If not then no problem you can just stand were he cast it (since he/she cant move) and wait...it will be a long with most of the time but they aint going anywere, all they can do is recharge and try fight you again so your best bet is just to sit and rest, then when they comes out of it fight them again.

I agree with Wudy.

Sure the person is stuck in one spot, but they still manage to cast Stalker while under attack. How about if the Hunter escaping was really far and uses Stalker? Can anyone accurately use an area on the last known position? Example: I only have one area is Howl (Rng:6) I could miss alot with such a short range.

Well, he will never survive that, the enemies cast some areas in lvl 1 and he will die for sure.

He cant move while invisible, so its hard to escape.

But he can sit down....

And? You know how fast hp regen? Much much slower then you loose it :P

In my opinion Stalker surroundings is just fine the way it is.

It costs an awful lot of mana to use (440 mana on level 1 just to hide one person for 60 seconds), and the Hunter cannot move so it is in no way comparable to Camoflauge in that regard.

A Hunter who uses Stalker to escape is a clever Hunter, because it can also be very dangerous.

Regards

I seem to be in a minority here.

But i don't care.

I still believe it is wrong for a hunter on 100 hp to escape the attacks of several players.

Some people have argued that a hunter on 100 hp will never survive.

But as someone else pointed out: they can do so if they have some distance between themsleves and their enemy, and there is some confusion about the exact location.

They can also escape from that location once rested (i've seen them do it) - which means that stalker can and is being used as an escape spell.

So simple question: is this spell designed for escape?

It has never been my impression that it is.

And if not, then clearly it needs to have the same cancel effect as camo...

Its not designed for escape but i never saw someone escaping with that spell.

If there is some distance between the hunter and the enemies and there is confusion about the exact location the hunter will use camouflage.

Even if not you can always scan at lvl 1 to find him. He cant move from there.

If for a chance, he uses sotw+stalker and you are alone and have no areas, maybe then they escaped from the death with wasting at least 720 mana. but they are still there invisible and you know where they are, of course a ambush+camou or fist+camou its 1000x better option.

Someone who cant move, cant escape.

Tracking can reveal the general area but "Escapist" can be used to find their exact location after that.

Regards.

I have seen it, several times.

A hunter can escape death using sow/stalker.

Against a slower class the same hunter can also emerge form stalker fully recovered and escape.

Stalker was not intended for this purpose...

When I had that as part of my build it was very easy to use that spell to escape. You are also forgetting that there are a number of hunters that will use the "facing" bug and Stalker to return to full health + mana and then SotW get distance again then camo.

There is far too many ways to abuse this spell. Wudy is right any hit should prevent Stalker. The spell was designed to setup an ambush and that would require the enemy not knowing where the ambush is.

It was always my impression this was an ambush spell. I don't see the point in using it just to regen and escape, what a waste of mana and opportunity.

I agree it should be cancelled by a hit the same as camo, otherwise we are going to descend into the 'coward hunters' shouting match once again. Ambush is supposed to be one of the main reasons why hunters are created. We are a tactical class so it's time we used what we are given to do our jobs.

Possibly badly put but I am tired :)

Best Regards

Well, if we want to get technical, then I don't personally believe either Camoflauge nor Stalker surroundings should be useable within sight range of any enemy. To implement this limitation would be very simple, just add a "Track 60m" when casting them and if any enemies are found, the spell cannot be cast.

The line-of-sight quirks that affect tracking would also make this perfectly accurate.

I guarantee you such a change would covert both of these spells to entirely offensive purposes, unless the Hunter is very clever and manages to elude enemies enough to use them for escape (hiding behind rocks, trees, etc.).

Regards.

That sounds reasonable. How can someone disappear when they are being watched? Camo is the skill of hiding using the surroundings, it isn't a disappearing magic act--if it was, mages should have it too. Having it detect a 60m range, would also help the warrior class, since it is very hard stopping Camo without any ranged weapons.

Logically, then, camo shouldn't be able to be cast on flat terrain like on a fort wall. Doesn't work like that.

How about master of time in mental it stops u for 14 seconds (if im right) in lvl 5

Maybe the Hunter carries some wallpaper to hide behind in the fort? :bangin:

But camo'ing can be done anywhere, it doesn't always have to involve bushes and trees. Example: The US military has switched to a Digital camo pattern to better blend into urban enviroments.

If you can't say where he was STANDING for 4,5 sec then how you want cancel stalker? Warrior would be forced to use area, range spell - so he would be close to the target. Ergo he would know where stalker was used. Range class can cancell Stalker but then it would be used behind object.

Excuse me but he can't ESCAPE thanx to stalker. Son of the bitch, escapist are thos spells that allow him to escape. SOTW mostly.
Once again. Stalker force you to stay in one place. You can die under it very fast. If you have no area spells, time etc. then it is not stalkers fault. And escaping is possible only thnx to Evasion tree.

There is no need for this measure.

All that is needed is for stalker to be cancelled by any attack, like camo...

Why are saying 'excuse me'?

Did you fart or something?...

I hope Repetition Arrow could be used in this way as well :gun_bandana:

Use escapist before, to find where to cast the area, too few archer use this tactic, but i can assure you it's very efficient.

OFT:

Id like to say a hunter can still easy run away from a warrior with camo :P same with stalker. Escapist and boom hide again, then ambush you again, then hide again, then ambush you again.

I did have the same thought but I would disagree with adding that to camo. You should be able to "fall back" during a war, camo and "sneak up" to the front. That is perfectly acceptable way to use that spell.

Stalker is different and I would agree if in visual range of an enemy would block that spell. If the new restrictions were added I think that there should be a small adjustment to the casting time down to 3 seconds as a just an enemy in visual range stops Stalker is enough of a hindrance no need to have long casting time.

If someone uses Sotw+stalker to escape from you they only chance he has is if you are a hunter without lvl 19 shortbows or a conjurer without points in mental.

All other classes will kill you with cheap areas.

So changing a useless combo which needs at least 760 mana to be used and only its useful to escape when you are 1vs1 and only vs some classes with especific specs its a totally waste of time.

Seriously, as zielsky said if he escaped was because of evasion not stalker.

But of course lets change stalker not evasion.

Since it need 760~ mana to be used if its a fight then it will be likely un-useable without mage backup to feed the hunter mana, If your atking a lvling hunter and he just try it without running then its entirely possible but knowing hunters mana/spell cost ratio by 100-200~ HP they will (if they have been trying to kill you) have far less than 760 mana is any at all.

I havent seen this be used so i must be blind if its used so much, but I have seen Stunfist-Camo which is in fairness allright by me you can only stop one guy with it so its not the kind of 70% gettaway chance that SOTW-Camo offered.

I dont see much need for a change.

I'm with Wudy here ............... this spell is meant to be used OFFENSIVELY. Therefore, should be treated in the same way as camo. Hits / evades should cancel the spell, just like they do with camo. It is meant for ambush, just like camo, Yes ... mana cost is higher, but it's meant for ambush, and a safe place to hide to re-gen HP /MANA. So ..... IMHO .... any hit or evade should cancel spell

The original concept of a hunter was that he was suppossed to become a master of nature and the art of stealth.

When I used to think of hunter I used to think of people who scouted the land under the cloak of nature, hid in the night under Stalker, then they would come out and fight you.

Unfortunatly any idea of a hunter I have now is a blantantly overpowered class of people who pop in and out of nowhere when your low on hp, and kill you, if they don't happen to kill you, they run away on low hp and come back again, like an annoying little mosquito. :)

There is no class more annoying than the hunter, though there are people who preserve the old image (the kind of people who don't run away and enjoy a real respectful fight)

Like Compost said... the protection updates ruined brawler setups. Hunter damage took a huge dive and though we can still hit high with Dual shot and the like, it costs alot of mana and Long bow is all but dead.

It's simply a matter of fact that Hunters cannot play like they used to. NGD has given us the tools, on purpose, to play more like assassins and escapist and we are only using them as NGD clearly intended.

I do believe they even stated officially once that this was their intended role for the Hunter.

Or do you still expect us to fight you like that when our Shield pierce(5) does 15 dmg through your armor?

Regards.


EDIT: Take a look at my setup, Edge, and you will learn a bit how Hunters have to fight these days to survive.

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6...ot68os9.th.jpg

The problem here Edge is that these really respectful fights you speak of are becoming a rarity, unfortunalely.

In an overcrowded Regnum world the reality is that you are lucky if you run 50m without bumping into a hunting party of 2 or 3 times your number (especially if you are an Alsiun).

A common experience i and my fellow hunters have is running into a large group who have 2 or 3 healers, a warlock who runs at us with mod, 4 or 5 archers all trying to confuse and DS us but casting sow so that we don't make a scratch on them, and a knight that buffs everyone so that any attempted hits get blocked.

As a hunter clan we face such situations regularly.

We have 2 options: die stupidly without making the slightest impact on our enemy, or run and fight them later when more allies have joined us. As a clan we have no problem with such strategic escapes, and when the signal is given we all run.

I can see how it is annoying for other classes who are not able to escape like this.

But the fact is that hunters are able to do it, and would be stupid not to when they face a quick and futile death if they fight.

If we think we have a chance of wining, or even just taking some with us, we'll fight.

Otherwise, don't be surprised to see us disappear into the sunset...:)

Just to say, Hunters are catchable. You are a barbarian Edge you can have very good speed to and catch them.

With Wudy on this one Edge....I'll fight anyone 1v1 and won't run; however, very rarely now-a-days does this occur.....hell - I'll even fight when odds are not in my favor but some of these groups lately are just overkill - and simply put they are RP farming.

I wish the old way I was set-up worked (brawlin hunter - tangle with me and it hurts). But the advent of rediculous armor ratings and psychotic blocks have forced many of us (hunters) who enjoyed the good brawl to become faster and sneakier.

Honestly, I feel that NGD wants the hunters to be this way; otherwise, things would not be implemented in the way they are.

Whenever you need a fair fight with a hunter - let me know!!

Yeah, hunters are meant to be the way they are, please stop complaining.....:crying1:

If he was really far, he would just use camo anyways. And Stalker has a longer casting time. Isn't it cancelled if you are knocked down or stunned?

um... no damage!!! hunters aren't barbs

Ohhhhh...but before armor became insane and knight auras blocked even friggin rain.....hunters could easily deal GREAT damage....actually they were very key in fort wars. I have a personal record of 110rp from a single Repetition Shot...

I remember when several Hunters could kill everyone... much like the warriors are these days. :(

Regards.