RO player: Comments on warriors!
 

Hello community.

I address to you sometimes with awesome ideias, and with very bad ideias, that are a stupid temporary out off sense from me!

Never the less i would very much like to know if the NGD devs read about it, or if they ocasionaly come to see the forum and read a thread or another!

I see that the forum is an importante link between the community and the developers, and i see that devs try to stay apart from some discussions!
I dont know if it is good or bad, but it is a stand of position, and i respect that!

By saying that, i go to the topic subject.

I have 3 chars on Alsius Horus, and 3 others in Alsius RA. I have all classes and sub-classes, from conjurer to marksman.

I must say that i enjoy playing with warriors more than any other class. I have stopped playing with marks, hunter and conjurer not because they are weak, but because i have no fun. I play a lot with my lvl 50 barb, and with my lvl 49 knight, but i cant have same amount of damage/stay alive rate that i have with my lvl 50 warlock. So, when i am alone, i play with warriors, but when it is time to help in fort wars, i have to change to warlock.

This is not a good stand, because i am in the warriors realm. So i write this lines to try to help NGD and to have some answers to my doubts from anyone that can help me!

I play for some time (not sure how much) but since then (BETA days) the game as been changed a lot. But only with warriors the changes are not made to get them balanced.

I read an NGD thread about they'r ideias of the game and first thoughts on classes, and the way they should be populating each realm (in fact i read it in spanish forum, cause i am Portuguese, and i can understand almost all in spanish language), but those are good old ideias, that can only be effective if players choice of characters would be limited to that realm need (not a good ideia because of the free choice of character). So, the ideias should be growing and adjusting to the game.

To be more specific about warriors, i read something like 30% of population should be warriors, but that is not what happens. A good ideia as gone down the drain. How can a population with 50% warriors fight with a population of 50% archers or mages? It cant! Why? Because warriors are not efective in battles as they were in the begginig of the game!

Sometimes we must take one step back to go 2 steps forward, and warriors really need to have a close look.

I dont understand why mages have 7 skill trees and warriors only 6. I dont understand why knights have constitution in 1 skill tree (stone temple), but barbarians have to waste points in 2 skill trees to get streght (letal anatomy in blunt and versatility in piercing), that knights also have access to!

Warcries is obsolet and two hand mastery is useless. In warcries, all good powers have counter side that takes away life, protection, speed or something else, in a way that does not exist in mages or archers!

With knights, the problem is other... they were ment to tank, and they did tank until some time ago, when auras were re-arranged and army of one was made vulnerable for piercing. Know, all warriors have spears for pearcing, and all archers have piercing by arrows nature! So i ask, what is army of one good for know? To fight against mages?

Scrolls are not efective on knights, because they have no damage powers, and party's are no longer efective because auras were changed!

If i am in a party with a conjurer and a barbarian or 2, it is must likely that i only have xp when heroic presence is on, because i dont make damage enough in the moobs.

With all this crap i said, i only ask NGD developers to pay some attencion to warriors class, because i see warlocks getting stronger, hunters getting stronger, etc... and warriors are getting weaker. Long goes the days where i tried to fight anyone that come in my way when i was grinding. Know, i have to run like crazy!

Sorry for the long statement!

Regards,
Wudin

I agree for the most part. I was here for a long time as well....First character in fact was a knight, leveled almost completely solo with no aura leeching.

Its not so much that everyone else is getting stronger so much as they make changes without thinking of how it will mess with warriors. Strafing and +20% base speed for example, completely screwed over warriors vs archer balance, especially hunters. They can now attack us from range AND move away at full speed, while at the same time, the spells we used to be able to use to keep them in place (ribs breaker and balestra) have almost all damage removed, so its not worth it for a barb to use it when we have to both keep them in place, and hurt them at the same time.

I dont think so much that it was intentional, but a slew of events happened that kept making warriors worse in relation to other classes, and now they have stacked and built up to render the class of less use than other classes.

Taking a look at skill trees.....Archers have skill trees that have many useful spells in them so maxing one out isnt a lot of a compromise, same with mages. Warriors on the other hand, have a few useful skills in each tree, so we have to really be very careful as to how we spend our points. Warcries still has some decent spells in it and so does 2h, but 1 to 3 spells in each tree that has some good RvR value is not enough. I posted it before, but maybe condensing the weapon trees into general spells and focusing on offensive and defensive side of things would be a good way to get some more use out of warriors.

If anyone is interested its here: http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=45938

Looking at individual skills. Mages have MANY skills that have value even on level 1, archers a few, and warriors, almost none, meaning that our precious few skill points need to be very carefully allocated and tough decisions need to be made in regards to what needs to be spent where and what is vital and what is not. I have never had this problem on my lock.

I read your post with big interest until I stumbled across this...
Thirst for blood is THE best skill for a Barbarian.
Deafening Roar, stunn another army for up to 15 sec.
Expansive Wave, cause past 1.5k damage with low casting time in an arc area.
Rage of the earth, knock down a group of people for up to 10 seconds.
Whirlwind, the best DoT in the game, also AoE.
Destabilize, cause 100% weapon damage instantly with only 65 mana cost.
Beast Attack, nice damage boost and 50% chance of making your opponent dizzy.
Spirtual Blow...

How can these skills be bad?
Two handed mastery is currently the best tree for Barbarians imo.

Soo... what am I trying to say?
That a Barbarian who consider Two handed mastery as useless should not really talk about balance, imo.

Sorry.

EDIT: Added Beast Attack to the list.

darn, you beat me to it, what he said XD but you forgot beast attack my second favorite spell XD

-glulose

Also Beast Attack, which I use, but because of point limits many of these spells go unused, currently I have

Mindsquasher, Lethal anatomy, Brutal impacts, Frenzy, Berzerk, Overwhelming, Thunder Strike, TFB, and Beast attack at 5,

Feint, Caution, Spring, and UM at 3,

And Roar at 2

Leaving me with 0 skill points and 1DP

Its far from perfect, but the point is all the helpfull skills in the world wont help if you dont have the points to use them, Mages are at an advantage in this way as they get more points (yes they have more skill trees but Enchants/SM/Summons are often left out of war builds all together)

No matter how bad they nerf a single class you cannot get along without it in a RvR. With all the talk about Syrtis being an archer realm, just a group of archers cant take the forts and hold it by themselves. They have a fine set of warriors with them in battle. Same holds true for the so-called 'warrior' realm Alsius. Just a bunch of warriors cant win battles. They need their complement of locks, conjus and archers. I dont really get why people always equate 'balance' with PvP balance.
As for me, I win if my team wins. That is all that matters at the end. I might die a hundred times but if we manage to take back the fort/castle or if we manage to hold it for a while longer with contributions from everyone, my day is made.
I agree, playability with warriors is bad but just make sure you did everything you can to help your team win or lose putting up a great fight. Ofc, there are frustrating moments but just take it in the stride think what you can do better next time.
If you think you are a warrior(or an archer or a mage) at heart, keep playing the same class no matter how much its nerfed. Just adapt. I have seen one too many people who changed their class because of some nerf, then got bored and totally left the game. Please don't be one of them.

I was perfectly happy with my Barb, I had spent 100's of hours grinding it and was happy to have done so because I enjoyed the end product, now however I have lost my 2 imob spells (Ribs/Balestra) And a large chunck of my speed (onsl) and at the same time archer have become neigh impossible to catch if they play even half decently.

If the "team role" of a Barb is now breaking gates and launching area attacks (mostly at gates...) or otherwise standing around for 90% of the fight because even trying to get in range to hit something is near certain death, then I feal cheated, as that is not the class I leveled.

We usually read and answer from time to time (it only takes a couple of searches to prove that).

But the issue is that some people take reading a suggestion and confuse it with demanding to do what they say. I can't not stress it out enough, most of the things that are implemented right now, usually have some feedback from the community, that can be read in several forms (forums, a frequent bug, an imbalance, etc).

Specifically about your concern, we are paying attention and I can't answer right now what the solution might be because we are working on it (last update had a big improvement towards that) but yes, we want to improve on our warriors take in Regnum Online. This of course means that the idea is to have fun with each and every class. This might take a while but we will get there.

Regards

Im noticing far fewer [read] tags on the suggestions forum, maybe you are reading but forgetting to change the Title, maybe you are not reading them at all, but its nice to see that NGD is reading suggestions that are being put forward, some are real gems.

I maybe been miss understud in some point!

Imo 2 hand mastery is useless as it is... and i tell you why...

Thirst for blood is THE best skill for a Barbarian. <--- Agree, although i use it at lvl 1 cause i dont skill this tree to max

Deafening Roar, stunn another army for up to 15 sec. <---- so does Howl for just more 50 of mana, u dont use points in another skill tree

Expansive Wave, cause past 1.5k damage with low casting time in an arc area. <--- useless due to time of cast and mana wasted, and only got that kind of damage at (5)

Rage of the earth, knock down a group of people for up to 10 seconds. <--- so does lightning strike, u dont use points in another skill tree

Whirlwind, the best DoT in the game, also AoE. <--- i recon thats a good DoT, but to much casting time, can easely be canceled, or worst, in a fort war, you can die before you get it active!

Destabilize, cause 100% weapon damage instantly with only 65 mana cost.
Spirtual Blow... <--- Agree with this spells, but the casting time (again), by my experience, when i active the power, the enemie is far away from me, no effect on enemies, unless i knock him down, that means that i must skill tactics to max to!

By the end of all this spells, tell me how much points does a barbarian have to weapon tree (in case of a barb, you will try to have streght from blunt and piercing tree), and for tactics tree, wich have spring and caution. Plus... Unstoppable madness is the last skill of warcries tree, more points to get there.

By the end of this, i really dont know where to give points...

Znurre, i understand your point of view, but that is not a good setup for a realm where you have no suport, and you're constantly outnumbered by ranged enemies!

:)

Warriors are the most sensible classes, cause of positioning of the enemies. Any ranged enemie can do damage with auto-aim, but warriors have "enemie not in front" or "to far away from enemie" while being hitted...

Ideally speaking, If things go as NGD envisioned, you dont have to chase the archer. Your archer/lock team mates would do that for you. Besides the place of the warrior is at the gate.. defending it or breaking it. I dont see where the chasing part comes. except when trying to help a clanmate kill a hunter who camps his grinding place, in which case, another high lvl hunter is supposed to help him. Barbs used to fill the role of hunter killer, now NGD put a full stop to that.

Answers in red

Tks for the answer niclam... i dont expect you guys to do what i want, neither to do it tomorrow. I just was claiming some attencion for a game issue, that you could pay some attencion as well...

Your answer, said all i "demanded" as i underlined it. If you are aware of the "problem", and you are trying to resolve it, then, i can only wait for the day :D

Tks again for your answer!

Znurre... i totally understand what you say. I only wish you could join alsius in horus. Its a completly diferent game from what you play in ra... wanna see something strange... One of these nights, while fighting a fort war, one of our "conjurers" was screaming for heal!!! This is something never seen!
Some of our conjurers play as "warjurers". Thats fine by me, but warriors get out of suport!

By what niclam said, NGD have an eye on warriors, so, things will be made. Lets wait for it!

Regards :drinks:

Just went and played Faith at Herb a bit, MY GOD ... Its so frustrating that I ended up just hanging around CS rather than die over and over and over...

For every hit I could land Id take about 10,

Just ended up in realm with the rest of the Syrtis warrior population talking about how hard the class blows now... then arguing with some others about just how hard the class blows...

Restore 100% damage to Ribs/Balestra on all levels,
Restore Caution to Dur = CD and add 10% at all levels
Restore Onsl to 30 seconds (10 seconds on 5 gets you half way over pp)
Increase the duration of Spring to 30 seconds
Slow strafe speed,
Decrease ranged class attack arc

The problem with the "Spells should have points to be usefull" rule is that warriors DO NOT have enough points to get all the spells we need to be usefull, and if we make a setup specially to get the spells we need to live long enough to get near anyone then we dont have the damage to kill them once we are there.

Making warriors "more dynamic" with less cast time, then in the same update making archers un-catchable, even when they are shooting at you at the same time... Is there not a balance team ment to be checking this crap, if so how the hell did they miss that one?

Everything that needs saying on warriors has been said in 100 threads and people have quit the class or even the game over the state of warriors, If theres not a real overhaul of the warrior class soon then I cant see there being any left (Hell Ive seen about 3 leveling warriors over 30 since I started my marks...)

:fury:

I dont deal with chances if i can avoid it. I love deafening roar, beast attack, TFB, Expansive wave. 2H is a must have tree, but as i said, i dont like chances, 70% at level 5 is ok (RoTE), but the damage is a bit rough. Personal preference i suppose.

As far as whirlwind goes, 65 is my top damage for an UNBUFFED warrior (650 damage), throw in buffs and such and its half of that or less. Its nice for ticking down Mana Pylon and Energy Barrier and stuff, but as a whole, i find it is too specialized to be a skill i use all the time.

Thanks Niclam for the response, it is nice to know directly, 'in person', at least from time to time that you are keeping an eye on things and listening now and then (not meant as insult at all). It is very reassuring to us when you post here and let us know that you hear our concerns.

Earlier when you had all our forts and we had just taken back the castle (after ignis kicked you out :D) i thought, well ill park my lock at imp and go to Aggers on my barb so i can have a good character at imp on short notice.....I died about 6 times and i think made one hit. Ragequit.

As for your skill suggestions, yes to all of them. Strafe should = backpedal speed, MAYBE slightly more, but certainly NOT run speed. Firing arc being lowered would at least let us gain a little bit when they have to pause to fire since they would have to turn a bit more.

I have seen (since starting a hunter :/) 4 pt warriors, 6 pr archers, 4 pt mages) going to birka (level 18-24 or so) i have seen 1 warrior and the rest archers or mages (sorry, didnt get a full count as i didnt spend a lot of time there as im only L16).

The thing about barb grinding is that its deceptive. Grinding players on a lock is not a ton more difficult than grinding mobs, on a barb, its 100% different; you dont always face them, they move even a little and you are out of range, [archers] tend to dance around a lot more throwing off your facing and sometimes canceling spells (better now with less casting times on warrior spells). Its frustrating. I think a lot of the time, players go to the wz on a warrior, see how shitty it is, and either leave or start a new class. Fewer and fewer new warriors do i see in the WZ, its almost all archers or mages.

I completely agree with the purpose of this thread, and with your post as well. I've noticed the exact same thing, warriors are disappearing from wz, and as i see it it will only get worse if nothing changes.

Just another day I went to "noob island" to do do some delayed quests and all i saw was mages and archers. Now, if I walk around inner realm for a bit I'll find mostly hunters, locks, and a few conjus... if i get lucky i'll see maybe 1 or 2 barbs, and I can't recall seeing knights at all... and why would I?
No one would be stupid enough to make a knight, after all knights are barbs with very low dmg and most times block as much as any other player or mob...

I'm sorry Niclam, but as far as this is concerned, I have a hard time believing you considering your previous statements about the role of warriors and NGD's subsequent "fixes" to the warrior class.

As far as the Two-Handed skilltree is concerned, I have to agree with Znurre, as there are many skills that are extremely useful at the moment.

Since I'm playing a barbarian, this tree always had good skills in it (TfB, spiritual blow, beast attack and deafening roar). And now it has even been improved, if there are problems with barbs it's not coming from that tree.

In a war, i have see a warroir army VS an archer army

same nomber of ppl in each team

Warroir had lost every time, because it's impossible to catch theim

They use lignhtening arrow, and warroir lost 25% of speed, they become easily target

when one warroir try to use area, now with range 6 and +20% speed, it's very easy for all don't be affect. WHen you come to use area all ppl back and you hit nobody.
ANd area effect had been nerf.

and you can be 1,2,3,4 ... on ONE archer if he straff you cannot hit him, and they have 30% dmg reduction normal hit of 600 become 400.
But their normal hit, with frenzy (20% physical) can be 500

With mage we can see same prb, but mage have more power to slow , knock and area.

Warroir are just meat for that nobody wanna play theim

Ok... so we all agree that warriors are a bad class to play with. No 1vs1 effect, neither army vs army good helpers.

I now ask you all to give NGD some ideias to improve warrior playability. Even if NGD dont care about our opinion (i'm sure they care), as a community is our duty to try to help...

I must say that things in red are bit too much... Alto I agree with other points...

Other thing that pisses me off....

lvl 50 conj can grind solo nonstop
lvl 50 lock can grind solo nonstop
lvl 50 marks can grind solo nonstop
lvl 50 hunt can grind solo nonstop
lvl 50 barb ...... ?
lvl 50 knight ....... ????!

Destabilize, fulminating and Rage are useless. Last time i used rage it was difficult to hit a target just in front of you, with a group good luck, then you have to add that it comes with percentage and a high mana cost. In my dictionary this is a skill with no use, and practically no one uses it, basically we all use feint and kick.
Rend...useless, you only have to see what is the opinion of mages with the new energy borrow.
Whirlwind->Warriors have problems landing an instantaneous area and surviving, and this isn't instantaneous and puts a "kill me" message in your head. Then we have the damage, very low for a barbarian, if you can do 1k+ damage in a blow i don't get the use of this power, it´s only useful for one vs one.
Expansive wave is good, but there are also more arc areas in the game, another superfluous power in the game.
Beast attack is good, the only problem is that you can´t take advantage of it if your enemy is knocked down, and the first thing you try to do is to knock down your opponents. Good damage if you put 5 points.
Spiritual blow is also good with the new casting time. The problem with this is the effect and the cost of mana.
TfB and the Roar are priceless.

In my opinion from 10 skills 2 are very good, 2 regular-good and 6 are filling the tree. Hardly the best tree, you can see it in war zone, there is little variation in configurations and few of them have points in those 6-8 skills.

Sorry but I have to say I've started using Rage of the Earth extensively, and although there is a bug with the range (From my testing it looks like 6 range in an arc infront of the character) it is an amazing spell.

But I usually always land it, it is a great spell. Please take into consideration that 0.5 second casting time and 10 second knockdown make it great just as you are nearing your target, or when it nears you. It is a very useful spell when I am being charged by other warriors, they are spear bound, and usually they get the first hit, but with RotE I can land a 10 second area knockdown almost instantly. 70% chance also isn't entirely promising, but it is still a very high chance.

The spell lacks +100% weapon damage, but that isn't needed in my opinion. It would make it too strong. Honestly, this spell is amazing now, mostly because of it's quick area intercept ability with the 0.5 seconds. Imho this is probably the second best area out there, for any weapon since it is a shared tree.

Destabilize is also very very useful as it has 100% weapon damage. Meaning you can do a cheap piggyback right after a normal hit. (65 mana is very flexible.)

Once again, I think you overlook exactly how amazing it is to have a spell that can be used by any weapon. The reason you never even see those other arc areas is because they are bound to their weapons, and they are honestly not worth it.

To me the only spells that are useless in 2H Mastery are Rend (Which should clearly be a DoT FFS) and Fulminating, which should be roughly made into a passive spell of the many which have been suggested. (As 2H Mastery is a category without a passive)

Yes these powers are good but once you spend on

Frenzy, Overwhelming, Feint (and/or Trip) Spring Caution Um, TFB etc...

And most likely put X points into a 19 wep tree, (Area, passive maybe, wep boost maybe, some sort of damage spell or effect spells eg SC Ms Disable...)

Well basically you end up pretty low on points to spare once you have the "essentials" that you need to survive there is little room for flexibility in the build.

If you go for a lowe damage build with more CC then you can be more flexible, but my barb at least in the current game is near as useless at cathcing anyone or hitting anything smaller than a fort door, so she is pretty much skilled as a battering ram.

Well I am currently skilled at 19 2H, 19 Blunt, 15 Tactics, 11 Piercing, and 15 WC. And I have plenty of points now, I could even drop WC for more points in another category. 4 Areas, Defense with high Const, I don't waste full points into single categories too (It's much cheaper to get Versatility to 3 with a cheap 11 points into Piercing, and I don't need to max out Lethal Anatomy with the cheaper cover) Weapon damage buffs are also useless imo, TFB covers up my single takeout, and just 2 +100%'s to piggyback.

In the current state you cannot play warriors the same way you were playing them before a couple updates ago. I can only intercept what comes my way now, and have to be more careful, it's not as enjoyable as it was before the updates. But at least I can still play. Skills have less value now, what matters more now is your usefulness.

I'd like to clarify on what Niclam said, we believe that the main problems associated with warriors are technical (player positioning, lag, etc)

In the past, warriors had huge overpowered damage and spells (because of bugs or balance errors) that kind-of compensated for the technical issues...

when we started fixing the balance problems, technical issues made warriors just too difficult to play and a really frustrating class in certain circumstances.

We are doing a major re-work on the combat system... (not stat based but technical) that should improve responsiveness for all classes.

it is a major change, but we feel it will be a big improvement once everyone gets used to it...

We will write about it soon to explain how it works

best regards,

Chilko

Yeah we got the same statement with the "new positions" (which are pretty much the same as the old ones, I at least cant see any imporovement realy)

And Strafing which will be "great once your used to it" and once people got used to it everyone realised how you could use it to laugh at warriors as they strafe shoot circles around you.

Also defence has been continually nerfed as weps become stronger, meaning its less likely for warriors to get in range when under fire from these new super damage bows or or super speed staves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ8IkoyZC5I

Please tell me Whirlwind is bad once again.

I agree.

It is because NGD took the new movement system into account, without thinking about balance. They already did this before when they changed backpedal speed (But ranged classes squeezed out of that one) they did not learn again with strafing, as it directly affected balance. It was more then just more controls to keep the game up to date. They should have balanced either it all at once, or done it in parts.

I hope and feel the 3rd time they will get it right.

Better healing/regeneration? Archers stop for the whole attacking animation? :P I'm looking forward to your explanation ;)

We all do. Damn sure they have made some errors, some big and some small, some that still need to be corrected, but as with any living being (yes, i consider RO a living entity of sorts as we all make up its collective consciousness and we participate in its evolution), it needs to adapt to new environments and new factors in its existence. We all want a game where all classes are viable, but sometimes things take a bit of time, i guess im willing to wait. In the mean time, i have my Lock, i have a noob hunter ( :/ ) im grinding, and will continue to play and anticipate whats in store for me next. I want to love my barb again, like i did in 1.05 and earlier incarnations.

Things are never perfect and i get furious with things just like everyone else, but lets remember that these guys are people too, people that want what we do, a kick ass game that we can all enjoy. I guess i see this heading into a flame war and i dont want to see that, so maybe if we all keep that in mind before we degenerate too much.


Thanks also devs for keeping us posted, i look forward to hearing whatever details you have planned for us.

Personally I dont see why NGD chose to nerf warriors first then try fix the problems with movement after, since right now it seems movement is neigh un-fixable.

Would have made for sence to me to fix movement, creating an overpowered warrior class, then nerf them, rather than nerfing a decently balanced class to the point of being useless then spending months trying to fix something that may be impossible to fix to re-balance them...

Well, if the official position is that the problems with barbs are only technical, I guess I can kiss mine goodbye...And I'm talking Barb here, the knights last a little bit at least... I clearly don't even have a chance to test those technical issues since I don't get close enough to check if I have a positioning problem :)

With all due respect, does any of you up there play a barb, and if yes, does he still enjoy it, not even a bit frustrated ? Come on, this isn't serious, I'm loosing my favorite char, and I wasn't even aware I was playing (and paying) for a beta...
I'd like to hear some good news from your team, anything to give us some hope, but all i get is ngd people telling me how things are for the best and there is no real balance problem for the warriors... I'm not even sure we're playing the same game anymore

I know I shouldn't say this but i just can't control myself.
It would be nice if you had some more information or actual knowledge about our game systems to make this kind of claims...

Actually, as they are right now in our test versions, warriors became just too powerful again, without balancing any powers.

The changes that we are doing go really deep, but it is a much more robust solution, and it will affect all classes.

:jacky_chun:
:rale::rale::rale::rale::rale::rale::rale:

Im curious.. will we get a chance to test this before it goes live?

Any more details please?

Its good to know you are realy trying to deal with this, I hold out hope of success, for now...

it's nice to see, positioning problems, lag and fixes will be enjoyable for all classes :). On top of this there's this huge gap between a barb being close and far away from the target, if he's close he could go near the state of being overpowered but being far from the enemy he becomes a practising bullseye