[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by Xero_Aurion

The laws that govern us now...were made by people who made that choice to create such a thing...

Social status? That's just a set of words people "choose" to say about other individuals based on what they have seen.

Abilities...well when we choose to use our abilities correctly (once we see them that is) then maybe...

The environment? Uh that constantly changes from the choices we make while IN the environment. But all in all it's more than likely that it goes both ways, not one way or the other.

I find it sad that your so confined to what you want to believe that your unwilling to consider that there is an opposite reality to what you hold to be true. But that doesn't matter, for you will either come to know truth or you will become a slave to lies.

And right now your a slave to lies...

Originally Posted by Xero_Aurion

I'm sure you are familiar with the MBTI or Myers-Briggs Type Indicator tests? Well I took those tests years ago and I still do just to see if I changed in my personality (which I never have changed, I'm still the same) and the result I got was INFJ. Now I'm not here to go into detail on that but you can simply look it up here...

Just so you know I hold a BA (which is a four degree at an American University) in which I double majored in both psychology and sociology (double majors are not entirely rare, but rare enough) - so yes I know about MBTI and even taken it. And I also know much about personality and it's development - most of my psychology classes revolved around that subject, in one way or another if not directly involved in the subject.

Originally Posted by Xero_Aurion

Now...here is my counter...

You try to hard... Your assertions of reality is based on things that you believed in because the actions that you took, based on this belief, produced results that allowed you see yourself as master of your own destiny (hence the connection between choice and individualism), and maybe to see yourself as better then others. But the fundamental problem with all this is: is that your actions, along with your belief, was not only supported by society, but was also taught to you by society.

That is to say, someone one or maybe a group of people taught you how you should behave, and what you should believe in to maximize the benefits of society: a job, an education and ect.

And whether you were conscious of this or not part of the teaching process was watching people who didn't do what authority said get punished or maybe you rebelled against the system in which you also experienced punishment. These punishments, either experienced or observed, must have had a profound affect on you because you have a hard time seeing the connection between what you were taught to what you became. But none-the-less your belief is what some may call a self-fulling prophecy - even to the extent that you would blame yourself and others for a wrong you and they did not commit - because you cling to this idea of "choice" so dearly.


I think it's extremely important how society affects individuals because through this understanding we can come to know the myths that are propagated to us that make us believe in a system which is largely rigged to benefit a small group of people. Thus you think you have benefited from your belief in the myth known as "choice" but in reality there are few, maybe more, that have benefited more from your belief in such a choice.

And why is that a bad thing? Because how do you know, as an individual, when your government or other social institutions and even the people around you are doing more harm then good? How is it that you can distinguish truth from lies? And how do you know when this "belief" benefits others more then yourself?

If you really want to know where I base my ideas from, which you will find out are based on scientific fact - because all these theories were tested, and retested and the outcomes were the same (hence the science of sociology), then here is a list of readings, all easy because its from wiki:


Introduction to sociology and some basic concepts:
Sociology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology
Social class:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class
Life chances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_chances
Power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_(sociology)
Roles: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Sociolo...ry/Role_Theory

Some thinkers and shakers of sociology:
Émile Durkheim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89mile_Durkheim
Max Weber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Weber
Karl Marx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx
George Herbert Mead: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Mead
Erving Goffman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erving_Goffman
Michel Foucault: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michel_Foucault

Some core theories of sociology:
Marxism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
Feminism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
Gender identity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexuality_(gender)
Symbolic interactionism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_interactionism
Interactionism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpr...social_science)
Looking glass self: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looking_glass_self
World-systems approach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-systems_theory <- personal favorite


You can "choose" to believe what you want to believe, but in the end I know what truth is because I not only studied it but I also lived it.