NDG is Regnum still beta? (2)

[magnet]

Hello NDG,

I take the liberty of stealing DemonMonger's topic from a few days ago to start my own rant on the new patch. Actually I'm not angry so I'm gonna say things in a neutral fashion; I don't want to show disrespect or anything, I'm just pointing things as they come to me and those are my thoughts.

A few weeks ago, you rolled a patch which broke the game totally and led to a series of events which totally prevented us from playing for an evening (then the server had hardware problems, which I guess were unrelated). The problem then, in my mind and as an observer of the IT/CS industry, is that you lacked quality assurance and that since you don't have enough employees to test the game thorough on experimental, and not enough players interested in doing so, you decided to "test" it live on the production server.

Things unfolded and the game was back on the right track after a few days without being reachable, but that's not a big deal. Or it wouldn't be if the game wasn't still in beta.

In the last thread having this name, niclam replied:

Originally Posted by niclam

Regnum Online is not in beta anymore. Regnum Online as most MMORPGs is actively developed as we strive to keep the game ever-evolving.

Having played a LOT of MMORPGs before, having started with Ultima Online almost 10 years ago, I can tell you that evolving often means breaking things, but you have a particularly bad record.

OK you are a few developers, I know and you're doing a marvelous job so far *but* why do you RUSH to roll the server updates?

At first you told us it was because players wouldn't test on experimental; but this time we did and you mostly didn't take notice. Ok you might have your own mind on things, especially regarding balance... But when it comes to gameplay changes, shouldn't you listen first since the goal is to offer the most comfortable game to your users? Well, maybe I'm wrong but that's what I think your goal should be.

In a lot of threads, I think, we told how bad the AI was; we told how the event log thingy was still bugged; that a lot of players need to see those messages:

{{CBDC043}}You successfully cast $power_display_name on yourself
{{CBDC043}}The target resists $power_display_name successfully
{{CBDC043}}You resist $power_display_name successfully
....
SM_POWER_YOU_HAVE_LAUNCHED_WITH_SUCCESS
SM_POWER_YOU_SUCCESSFULLY_CAST_ON_X
SM_POWER_X_SUCCESSFULLY_CAST_ON_YOU

(see more info here: http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=14338
http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=13942)

where they used to appear before... Do we have to change the lua scripts by ourselves, decompiling them? Is it even allowed? I don't think we should do anything but change game options, but you just made the game unplayable for a category of players; it's not about "getting used to the new system" (a reply I'm sure I will have a lot of times) .. this is *ANTI-ERGONOMIC*. I shouldn't have to get used to it: I play in high-resolution and eye movement matters, I have to care first about my position if barbs rush me, I can't have an eye on the event log.

But really this thread isn't about this particular problem; I don't want to give the impression that I'm a spoiled child . It's not my game, after all, I'm only a player and a customer (or ex-customer, that is) and you do whatever you wish.

Still, about that particular feature which is a total requisite for me, I got this reply from MegriM:

Originally Posted by MegriM

Yes, we're reading this forum. We won't have two systems for combat log but we accept to add options to the menu(O key) for what you believe is really important to show or hide. If you believe that is necessary to add new information just name it and we will see if that fits in our plans.

Since I didn't get any further reply I was hoping it was still in consideration. And it maybe is. I don't know, maybe it's for next patch.

What I'm criticizing is that you roll up patches too fast without doing proper testing, you end up breaking the game for a lot of players and then you fix things. This is not the proper development cycle, it feels amateurish and that's what I expect from a game in beta.

Now NDG apologists will surely tell me that it's a free game so I don't have a right to complain; this argument would be valid if I hadn't payed NDG 60Euros for 4 monthes of playing, that is 15 Euros /month which is the cost of a full-featured, stable and professional MMORPG.

Now don't get me wrong, if I play Regnum it's obviously because I enjoy it and I think a part of the game is very good ; I also support the game as a native Linux videogame. But I feel something with the development process is very wrong. I also feel the English community is ignored (why couldn't we apply for the Balance team if we didn't speak spanish?), when we complain loudly we get a reply, sure, but compare MegriM's answers in the Spanish development boards with the English ones. It's celebration day when we get replies.

I think you got my point: the last patch came too soon. It wasn't ready. I tested it in War test (invited by Surak in an announcement) two days ago, made a comment about it, and I wasn't expecting it to be rolled before one or two weeks because to me there are obviously things which prevent to be efficient like before regarding RvR/PvP.

The new AI is completely broken even if there were thoughts put to it and I'm sure it will mean a lot of new players giving up on the game very early because they will be bored even more with grinding. I was planning on raising new characters but of course this is not possible with the current AI, try playing a warrior with a party; you have to chase the mob permanently... Yes, I know warriors will be able to hit while moving at some point (supposedly), but in this case the dependency says: roll the new AI *after* the warrior improvements.

I want to finish on a good note, NDG is certainly doing a mostly good job but if the game isn't beta anymore, then however good their job is they mess up too often. In the last long list of replies I will get, I'm sure I will have the "if you're not happy leave the game": well no need because I am leaving the game until the gameplay is at least *as good* as before; don't get me wrong, I love the new events log, but if it means losing the rest it will just be useless. The game became for me a test for endurance and performance, a bit like a (lousy) chess player. I don't know how well I fared but my primary tool was the display of spell casts I have been asking for; without this tool I know I will do no good anyway, it's like losing the sense of touch in of my Regnum avatar.

My only wish is that NDG gets my message and try to listen more to user-input from the English community too. I also wish the game gets better and that at some point the minimal features I need to play will be back; then I will be back too. Till then, I wish farewell to Ignis and happy killing of all the heretics in Syrtis and Alsius (and some of them are truly great heretics, I really enjoyed fighting/playing against/with you).

So long and thanks for all the fish

Elrik
(there you have it Refe )

[BlooD]

The problem for me is the same as always... Money.

I am not saying they like to do money with a unfinished and bugged game but i think ngd arrived at a situation where they or launch the game and make it a unfinished project but with money to support it or they have to throw all to the thrash and forget about it. They are so few people and the donation system and the agreement with gamigo made thing go more fast than before with all the things that comes with it (unfinished things, lot of bugs, lot of people new to a very limited server....) but trust me the things are going way better than it was before. Now more changes are implemented in a relative short time (2-3 weeks and u have a lot of changes).

Well i think they didn,t like to launch it so fast and unfinished but it was the only option available to continue with his project.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by BlooD

The problem for me is the same as always... Money.

I am not saying they like to do money with a unfinished and bugged game but i think ngd arrived at a situation where they or launch the game and make it a unfinished project but with money to support it or they have to throw all to the thrash and forget about it. They are so few people and the donation system and the agreement with gamigo made thing go more fast than before with all the things that comes with it (unfinished things, lot of bugs, lot of people new to a very limited server....) but trust me the things are going way better than it was before. Now more changes are implemented in a relative short time (2-3 weeks and u have a lot of changes).

Well i think they didn,t like to launch it so fast and unfinished but it was the only option available to continue with his project.

I get that and that's why I "donated". However they shouldn't push server updates that aren't tested. By accepting to remove the "beta" flag of this game, and by accepting a premium content model which is most defintely NOT a donation system, they also accepted some responsibilities: the first goal now is not for them to develop the game as fast as possible only, it's first and foremost be sure that it is playable most of the time and that they don't break/remove features that most players want (not talking about balance here). The license agreement may say otherwise but there's legal protection on one side, and common sense on the other. The more I feel they listen and care for our input and well-being as customers/players, the more I'm inclined to donate. I'm sure I'm not the only one in that case. I went to war, I tested the new system, and I think it's extremely anti-ergonomic to remove the spell messages; the same goes with the AI system. I took time to post about it (and I'm not the only one) and it just feels like it all went to waste.

[bigjim]

Wow, Elrik that changes things a lot. Why do all of my friends always have to be in other realms. anyways, Yes I agree with everything you have posted, and I also think it is just foolish to take the spell impact/resit notification off the center of the screen. I also play in high resolution, and I do not like to glance down at the event log to see what is going on. Most know my playing style, and I am usually hunting solo. I always base my next spell attack on the spell that is cast on me. Like Elrik, I got used to seeing the spells that were cast on me, and I could react quickly. I am just really frustrated right now because of all of what you said. Ideas are not better rushed, the game is past the stage where panic update need to take place. Slow minor updates is how it should be, and I mean this is just bad. Not being personal I am just stating facts, and thank god I got all of my character's leveled up to 50 when I had the chance because I am not going to level when a mob acts like a complete lunatic.

[niclam]

Originally Posted by BlooD

The problem for me is the same as always... Money.

I am not saying they like to do money with a unfinished and bugged game but i think ngd arrived at a situation where they or launch the game and make it a unfinished project but with money to support it or they have to throw all to the thrash and forget about it. They are so few people and the donation system and the agreement with gamigo made thing go more fast than before with all the things that comes with it (unfinished things, lot of bugs, lot of people new to a very limited server....) but trust me the things are going way better than it was before. Now more changes are implemented in a relative short time (2-3 weeks and u have a lot of changes).

Well i think they didn,t like to launch it so fast and unfinished but it was the only option available to continue with his project.

I would probably go and explain the situation once more, but Magnet you already answer yourself on your post and the comment Blood made hits the nail, there is really not much more to add.
We are 8 people developing a MMORPG, wait, did I say developing only? No, we are also the live team (which usually is another team altogether taking care of support, maintenance, half-sleeping while watching the server, etc).

It was either a rocky road for all of us, or no road at all. We have confidence that as the game grows and when the money makes it possible, these inconveniences will be a thing of the past.
I really feel that saying "sorry for that" makes no sense, it's not like we break things on purpose just for the sake of it.

Anyways, as I tell everyone, sometimes the best thing to do is stop playing for a while and come back after a couple of months to see the game progress.

Regards

[NightTwix]

Its true that the new log is almost of no use in a fight.
Its waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to slow.
horrible.

The old onscreen messages should come back, additionally to the new log.
Its really inconvinient to play right now.
In a serious fight you have to instantly see what was resisted and what wasnt.
The old system did give you the info immediately, now you get the info when you cast the followup spell already.

It feels like fighting blind.

Otherwise i think you are overreacting a bit

Oh, and i did post about the lack of proper testing and QA a while ago.
I cant believe that those messed up rollouts still happen. EACH TIME

[Godofsilver]

Originally Posted by niclam

I would probably go and explain the situation once more, but Magnet you already answer yourself on your post and the comment Blood made hits the nail, there is really not much more to add.
We are 8 people developing a MMORPG, wait, did I say developing only? No, we are also the live team (which usually is another team altogether taking care of support, maintenance, half-sleeping while watching the server, etc).

It was either a rocky road for all of us, or no road at all. We have confidence that as the game grows and when the money makes it possible, these inconveniences will be a thing of the past.
I really feel that saying "sorry for that" makes no sense, it's not like we break things on purpose just for the sake of it.

Anyways, as I tell everyone, sometimes the best thing to do is stop playing for a while and come back after a couple of months to see the game progress.

Regards

[bigjim]

I also agree that the log is slower than my grandmother getting out of the shower. As a hunter it is going to be really hard for me to know what is going on, but maybe I can get lucky.

[makarios68]

I think most people would prefer to keep the game as it is, until the updates have been tested thoroughly and work properly, even if this takes time.

What's the rush? - The game is great as it is - there are enough addicts to testify to that, me included.

[magnet]

Originally Posted by niclam

I would probably go and explain the situation once more, but Magnet you already answer yourself on your post and the comment Blood made hits the nail, there is really not much more to add.
We are 8 people developing a MMORPG, wait, did I say developing only? No, we are also the live team (which usually is another team altogether taking care of support, maintenance, half-sleeping while watching the server, etc).

It was either a rocky road for all of us, or no road at all. We have confidence that as the game grows and when the money makes it possible, these inconveniences will be a thing of the past.
I really feel that saying "sorry for that" makes no sense, it's not like we break things on purpose just for the sake of it.

Anyways, as I tell everyone, sometimes the best thing to do is stop playing for a while and come back after a couple of months to see the game progress.

As you can see I got that and it's an awesome challenge you guys have but why not taking time before pushing updates, there are many development models that would be appropriate; eg freezing the experimental server 2 weeks and asking us to find bugs, organizing true meetings and not those crazy war times where Surak spawns all of us at one point, then asks us to fight, kill a dragon or run... I got that these tasks allow some testing to be done, but really the bugs are more than that usually.

I'm not asking for anything, just giving you an advice you are free to take:
- freeze (= no new feature, only bug fixes) experimental at least 2 weeks and tell us when you do so
- ask for players on live everyday at the same time, so that there are enough people to test... If no players show up, offer something for NEW bug reports (e.g, a repair hammer or teleport scrolls which are the less valuable premium items)
- bring back a way to report bugs in game, or make sure bugs reported in forum end up in your bug tracker
- make sure to fix all critical bugs/loss features before rolling the update to the production server.

I understand it's a lot of work in both case, but currently you have to stay and fix tons of bugs after rolling updates because it's done in a rush. I'm just saying, when it's working right (e.g, before the last update), we can play and you can wait to roll updates... I was among those who asked for the events log when I started playing 4 months ago, so I'm happy it's here but as Twix said it feels like we are fighting blind right now. When we report bugs/missing important features, I would just hope you delay the update. Or is it that important to be updating? In my mind, the most important is that everything goes well when you do roll the update; if it means waiting 2 weeks to have an update free (or mostly free) of nasty consequences, I think you should go for it.

As I said as a starter I'm not angry at all, but obviously that was something on my mind for some time because I was seeing updates breaking everything each time and I wanted to say it. I'm only hoping for the better. I also wanted to point out the low-level of communication compared to the Spanish-speaking community (especially regarding balance) which makes me think it's there only for the "placebo effect", but well that's secondary.

And I'm leaving the game not to take some time off, but really because it's like playing street fighter with a broken joystick right now. I'll be back when it's fixed (or if it gets fixed, but I don't know if those messages will ever be back since I can't get a definitive answer about that...).