Marksmen - What is our point?

[Saryad]

I would just like to ask everyone what they see the specialised role of a marksman as?
All the other classes really have a special role they fulfill.
Warlocks - Area Damage
Hunters - Speed and Stealth
Conjurors - Healing
Knights - Tanks
Barbs - Damage
Marksmen - ???

Ive been playing one for a long time, and all that seems to have happened to the class is its become a generic ranged class, we dont hit much harder than a hunter(we do less DPS if they have a pet). We dont really have any decent class specific spells(since DS got nerfed, and hawks gaze is too expensive for realistic use normaly).
I remember we used to have an advantage because we had a group of fairly good instant damage spells. But since ethereal arrow and arcana strike now take significantly longer to cast than a warlocks spells we lost that advantage too.
Yes we can have +15% range.... but really what good does that do?
Our ranged defence is good, but even with acro and evasive tactics we still get absolutely annihalated up close by warriors if we dont spend our time spamming sotw.
I just want our class to have a signature spell and ability again.
The only way a marks is really a uniquely useful these days is with a superboss longbow(dean or eve) and a passive damage setup with parabolic shot(5).

[Jennifer]

Range. Plain and simple. I've changed my setup any number of times as NGD have made changes to the spells of various classes, and finally decided that range, as much of it as I can get, is the best way. For me at least. I don't go out of my way to get uber bows or any of that nonsense ... epic damage is up to the barbarians.

In offensive fort wars I can stay well out of range of all the other classes, and usually the guards as well, and take my time picking off key targets. In defensive fort wars, like any other ranged class we have an inherent advantage over the melee classes: if we work together we can pick off key targets before they even get close.

That you don't stand much of a chance when you come face-to-face with ... well any other class really, but especially warriors ... makes a lot of sense. You're holding a bow nearly as long as you are tall and you're being kicked and hit in the face with a big bit of metal. If you let them get that close ... it's their turn. Therefore in open field battles we are vulnerable but can still make a difference. (I try to focus on the conjurers who attempt to stay at the back in these battles).

So, basically, stay out of the way if you can. If you can't, find a conjurer quickly.

[Altara]

Lately Ive seen Marksmen as ranged knights. If you skill it right, you can reduce damage so much that its almost like your wearing steal skin. It is especially good against syrtis since most of them are ranged.

I also find them like knights in the sense that they can protect conjus and even warlocks quiet easily. They have great cc spells (mostly freeze) that can give the mage's time to get away or set up a defense. It might not be the high damage/range people would think but its useful.

Plus we all know hunters are becoming the new damage class for archers

[wosuhecy]

some stats made by me over 10978 players
Class % number
Marksman : 11% 1176
Knight : 13% 1450
Barbarian : 16% 1711
Warlock : 17% 1772
Conjurer : 19% 2065
Hunter : 21% 2212

this are stats made by myself, it couldn't be taken as a state in any kind;
take it as an ... dunno

[Evangeline]

im a marksman myself, and u know what? i do disagree with ppl saying marks are knights of range thats playing silly, and btw hunters are overpowered, they got speed like noone else, i cant escape a hunter, neither win a pvp against lvl 50 hunter, so im basically screwed, not to mention warriors, their a pain in the ***, and warjus are hard to beat:>, locks well... sotw and burst of wind, but its only class we can take out, the rest is all bullsh*t:>

And yes, all classes have a specific speciality, and marks have nothing, ppl say we got range defenses, but its nothing special... a few hits from a warrior and... dead:>

[Alenox_I]

Originally Posted by nohan

im a marksman myself, and u know what? i do disagree with ppl saying marks are knights of range thats playing silly, and btw hunters are overpowered, they got speed like noone else, i cant escape a hunter, neither win a pvp against lvl 50 hunter, so im basically screwed, not to mention warriors, their a pain in the ***, and warjus are hard to beat:>, locks well... sotw and burst of wind, but its only class we can take out, the rest is all bullsh*t:>

And yes, all classes have a specific speciality, and marks have nothing, ppl say we got range defenses, but its nothing special... a few hits from a warrior and... dead:>

I don't want to insult you, and nothing like that, but you really need to start learning how to use your character

[Saryad]

The point he is making is that marksmen have absolutely no real specialist field where another class cannot do AS well or even better.

[Mikan]

Originally Posted by Saryad

The point he is making is that marksmen have absolutely no real specialist field where another class cannot do AS well or even better.

The problem is players want their Marksmen to do everything.

They can have 65% ranged damage resistance, before armor further buffed with Evasive tactics, which gives a huge amount of damage resistance in itself to low damage hits such as those from other archers. And then on top of that you can hit at up to range 43 with most of your spells except Winter stroke, which I never agreed with NGD nerfing to begin with.

While I agree that Marksman role is severely damaged right now, and they have no basic attack (only normal hits) while all other classes do, giving them poor damage and high mana costs to accomplish the same tasks, I will not agree that they have no specialty.

Marksmen are full of more specialties than any other class. And that is exactly the problem. They have to centralize too much on a single thing, and cannot have a wide variety of skills. For example, a Marksman with very high normal hits is unlikely to have high Tricks, and one with full 65% ranged damage resistance (level 19 Evasion and Aiming), is unlikely to have, well, anything at all except his normal hits.

Don't get me wrong, plenty of Marksmen on RA do just fine with nothing more than that, and they are damned hard to kill. Even when facing warriors, do not underestimate how much damage level 5 Acrobatic and Evasive tactics can reduce. A Barbarian without Berserk is unlikely to be any real threat to a Marksman when he is buffed. But is this how NGD intended it to be?

The simple truth is, in many cases it is just people not knowing how to play their class. That said, there is not really any way to play the class to begin with, as ruined as it is from constant nerfing over the years, so I will not blame the players.

But saying that they have no specialty is just nonsense. The whole problem is they are specialists, as I said to the point where they can't even do anything else if they go for the maximum benefit from any given specialization. And therein lies the problem with the class - they can have the best of many things, but they completely lack the basics of everything.

What makes Hunters strong is precisely the fact that they can have everything. If they aren't set up like that, they can actually be very weak and quite easy to beat if you're a skilled player. It's the basics that matter the most.

Of course, that's just my opinion, take it for what you will. I haven't had a level 50 Marksmen in over a year.

Kind regards.

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by nohan

im a marksman myself, and u know what? i do disagree with ppl saying marks are knights of range thats playing silly,

I remember when i was playing my marks, lvl 37 at the time, with a full set of storebought armour. I had lvl 15 stratpos, acro and evasive tactics. At a fort war, a lvl 50 marks started attacking me. His normal hits averaged 91, his arcana strikes did around 400 - 500 dmg. This was before the ranged dmg nerf and after 1.0.

[Minorian]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

I remember when i was playing my marks, lvl 37 at the time, with a full set of storebought armour. I had lvl 15 stratpos, acro and evasive tactics. At a fort war, a lvl 50 marks started attacking me. His normal hits averaged 91, his arcana strikes did around 400 - 500 dmg. This was before the ranged dmg nerf and after 1.0.

Hmm, so you had 55% dmg resist against that marks....

so without the defense buffs his arcanas were hitting 580-725 that seems right.

but without your defensive buffs, he would have been hitting 131's on you? ummm...WTF is that?? are these just random numbers you added to get marks nerfed yet again? because I tell you, to be hitting 131s at lvl 50 on a lvl 37, wow he must have been using some shitass gear.

but yes, marks might have too much for defense, but if people havent noticed, the non-uber gear ones have terrible damage, and struggle majorly with mana problems, so go ahead and nerf my defense, please do, but make me hit mor ethan a squirrell again >.>