1.0.8 Player-generated wishlist (fixes/balance)

Kyrottimus · 10-01-2009, 12:47 AM

I'm going to keep this to-the-point if I can.

1.0.8 brought forth some interesting concepts but in many respects destroyed many elements of gameplay many of us loved. If I could, I would implement the following changes:

*Allow piggybacking spells once more after and in-between normals. In the rapid state of ever-changing battle, one must be quick to adapt and counter the threat any enemy may present (like a rapid Mindsquash or Kick). Waiting for the normals attack-speed to cycle for the next spell is just simply too long to respond quickly to ever-changing battle situations.

*Make weapon speed affect Global Cooldown speed.

*Allow the OPTION for players to cancel non-instant spell casts with movement. I personally hate this and would not opt for it, but some prefer it. I like the old way when I click on a non-instant spell, it stops me and begins casting time instantly then I continue on my way when cast is complete. I'm sure some archers would want this as well as they could develop their attack-rhythm again but still without having an unfair distance advantage over warriors ALL the time.

*Revert positioning/network code to 1.0.7 and stop the phantom-swings! 1.0.7's positioning code was not perfect but it was the best since the 20% player-movement speed increase.

*Grey out spells which cannot be cast due to "not enough mana" or "target out of range"

*Remove spell-casting delays. I'm talking about the delays before casting, not the casting-timers themselves. Even if GCD is finished, some non-instant spells have 1-2 second delays before their cast-timers start (even if just standing there not fighting anything).

*Bring gold-purchasable horses back. The premium ones last forever now, so the incentive to use Xim to buy them is there. Maybe have the 24 hour gold-buyable horses cost 20-40k. Even when we had the 10k gold ones, I kept saying I wanted a permanent one. But some players simply CANNOT get xim and in a way this current version does make it unfair.

*Bring back the ability to cancel the spell-casting of enemies! This was a pivotal tactic and if you can't cancel spells like Sanct, Sultar, Camo, warrior's areas, etc, (with the failed cast going into CD and mana being spent), then it really will be "may the biggest zerg win."

*When casting any non-attack/non-offensive spell, character should not automatically enter combat mode. This is especially useful for conjurers!

Please, everyone else add your own thoughts, additions, criticisms and concerns. If we have enough voices here, then maybe the fast-paced, exciting and "dynamic" warfare we once used to thoroughly enjoy can be brought back.

Jacque_Phrost · 10-01-2009, 01:06 AM

I whole heartedly concur with what's stated here, especially that last one!

I'd also add:

- Give an exp bonus for support conj who only use heal/buff spells during a particular battle. (Like a 10% exp boost, to help support conj actually be able to make meaningful progress.)

Immune · 10-01-2009, 01:42 AM

I agree with pretty much everything except having weapon speed affect GCD, that's what GCD was introduced for in the first place, so faster weapons didn't mean more spells in a shorter time. Personally I like it this way, attack speed shouldn't affect spells.

Arafails · 10-01-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Revert positioning/network code to 1.0.7 and stop the phantom-swings! 1.0.7's positioning code was not perfect but it was the best since the 20% player-movement speed increase.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

...

NO!

Positioning is the best it has been for high latency players since the first revision to positioning after invasions. It may need improvement, but this has been a huge step forward.

Kyrottimus · 10-01-2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arafails

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

...

NO!

Positioning is the best it has been for high latency players since the first revision to positioning after invasions. It may need improvement, but this has been a huge step forward.

Well, in my instance, I have ~350ms average ping (for both server and game averages).

In 1.0.7 I could target a mob/enemy and run in a straight line through them and I'd get at least one normal to show up in the log (either it be hit or evade). In 1.0.7 I could also target a mob/enemy and strafe-circle them, getting very reliable normals registering in the log.

In 1.0.8, especially when first attacking a mob/enemy, my first 1-5 "swings" are phantom swings, and I can run straight through a mob/enemy or circle them and only get phantom swings. They interrupt the real-attack timer and also frustrate the ever-lovin' **** out of me....

Arafails · 10-01-2009, 03:27 AM

I'm working on a similar 370ms on average. I've noticed barely any change with mobs (except I've had to change my ages old tendency to cast ripost and start backpedalling immediately), and a significant improvement in my ability to hit other players, which is what matters – I have to guess at the actual position of targets a whole lot less.

At this point reversion to 1.0.7 would be essentially a step back into something approaching a dead-end. While the current model needs improvement (proper cancelling of invalid attacks instead of this phantom swing interrupting the real attack timer stuff for example), I feel it really is a whole lot better than it has been for quite some time.

King_Of_Angmar · 10-01-2009, 06:54 AM

I'd like those phantom swings to stop as well, but I also really like being able to hit an enemy when i actually get to him instead of when im 5-10 meters in front of him!

Not much of a wish here but:
-Precise block visual; it would be great to have that back.
-Trolls skin cool down put back to what it was in 1.0.7, half the duration.
-Maybe reduce mob evasions some more :P

Mashu · 10-01-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

I'm going to keep this to-the-point if I can.
*Allow piggybacking spells once more after and in-between normals. In the rapid state of ever-changing battle, one must be quick to adapt and counter the threat any enemy may present (like a rapid Mindsquash or Kick). Waiting for the normals attack-speed to cycle for the next spell is just simply too long to respond quickly to ever-changing battle situations.

GCD was made, to stop casting ready spells one by one, which I agree with. This gives change treated player to react.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Make weapon speed affect Global Cooldown speed.

OMG WTF?!!!!! Its not only that some players put effort in collecting items that give attack/casting speed all their game play or level another character to quest speed item. It is that speed would become useless attribue breaking barbs TFB(skill), weapons speed attribute (fast, medium, slow, v.slow) and many items with bonus.
Sorry, Thats most stupid thing in this forum I ever heard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Allow the OPTION for players to cancel non-instant spell casts with movement. I personally hate this and would not opt for it, but some prefer it. I like the old way when I click on a non-instant spell, it stops me and begins casting time instantly then I continue on my way when cast is complete. I'm sure some archers would want this as well as they could develop their attack-rhythm again but still without having an unfair distance advantage over warriors ALL the time.

No, all skills that are not instant, should be canceled by movement. Staying still when you cast some protection buff and waiting till it casts is simpler but can be really deadly, sometimes its better to cancel your spell and run and I like that. It gives me more choice.

Players that click 60 times per second without thinking and play like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAOFPSY4H20) should be punished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Revert positioning/network code to 1.0.7 and stop the phantom-swings! 1.0.7's positioning code was not perfect but it was the best since the 20% player-movement speed increase.

Giving arguments better/worst does not mean anything, nor does help in fixing it. Personally I dont feel much change in this area, I still can't hit sometimes but in all I think its less often then in 1.0.7.
As it comes to phanotom-swing I think its because animation is broken(similar as dragon animation)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Grey out spells which cannot be cast due to "not enough mana" or "target out of range"

Spells would be grey if enemy is not in range or some positional bug occurs. I am sure it would cause many attack problems.
Moreover warrior dont have much spells that differ in range so probably most of them would be grey all the time before you stand in the right place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Remove spell-casting delays. I'm talking about the delays before casting, not the casting-timers themselves. Even if GCD is finished, some non-instant spells have 1-2 second delays before their cast-timers start (even if just standing there not fighting anything).

I think GCD is calculated in that time. It just puts limit on casting spells that dont have pre-casting delay. Those with pre-casting have this delay longer then GCD so are not affected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Bring gold-purchasable horses back. The premium ones last forever now, so the incentive to use Xim to buy them is there. Maybe have the 24 hour gold-buyable horses cost 20-40k. Even when we had the 10k gold ones, I kept saying I wanted a permanent one. But some players simply CANNOT get xim and in a way this current version does make it unfair.

I agree, I bought pernament horse (predliator) which is nice, the only thing before that stoped me from buying it was it costed ximerins and was for given period. However I miss that other players, that can't afford buying horse can't join me. Even before horses disapeard not everyone got one, since its needed going to realm and buying it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Bring back the ability to cancel the spell-casting of enemies! This was a pivotal tactic and if you can't cancel spells like Sanct, Sultar, Camo, warrior's areas, etc, (with the failed cast going into CD and mana being spent), then it really will be "may the biggest zerg win."

I don't use spears but if Brain Pircing skill used for "Cancels an enemy's power casting" is broken. Then they should definitly fix it !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*When casting any non-attack/non-offensive spell, character should not automatically enter combat mode. This is especially useful for conjurers!

I feel its fine on barb, since you cast buffs when You want to attack soon, so it saves time. I did not test it on my conjurer since its only 30lvl, but if combat mode does not block other spells I think it should not cause any serious problems.

BTW. Your poll don't contain option "I don't agree with most of Your ideas" - 3 out of 4 are at some degree positive, one totally negative which also don't satisfies me.

Kianoni · 10-01-2009, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashu

No, all skills that are not instant, should be canceled by movement. Staying still when you cast some protection buff and waiting till it casts is simpler but can be really deadly, sometimes its better to cancel your spell and run and I like that. It gives me more choice.

Players that click 60 times per second without thinking and play like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAOFPSY4H20) should be punished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

*Allow the OPTION for players to cancel non-instant spell casts with movement. I personally hate this and would not opt for it, but some prefer it. I like the old way when I click on a non-instant spell, it stops me and begins casting time instantly then I continue on my way when cast is complete. I'm sure some archers would want this as well as they could develop their attack-rhythm again but still without having an unfair distance advantage over warriors ALL the time.

Actually if you can read it says OPTION so it means it should be an option. Which I agree on.

_Enio_ · 10-01-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immune

I agree with pretty much everything except having weapon speed affect GCD, that's what GCD was introduced for in the first place, so faster weapons didn't mean more spells in a shorter time. Personally I like it this way, attack speed shouldn't affect spells.

In the first place this update parts normal hits speed and the time between spell casts.

The fixed times now took away much of tactical choices = took away fun.

The new system would ALLOW implementing a balanced way of gcd scaling related to some stat. While the weapons speeds scale with 25% between speeds it could NOW be tweaked to scale gcd by eg. 10%, scaling could be balanced class specific, there could even be brought in a new
stat describing gcd scaling on weapons.

In short: this update allows gcd scaling-balancing for the first time in history of RO. why throw it away when it brings gameplay fun?

View Poll Results: Do you think these ideas will help with making RO, in its current state, better?
Yes! Very much so!	14	30.43%
Mostly.	13	28.26%
Somewhat, but they could use some more work.	14	30.43%
No, not really.	5	10.87%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

10-01-2009, 12:47 AM	#1
Kyrottimus Baron Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana, U.S.A. Posts: 690	1.0.8 Player-generated wishlist (fixes/balance) I'm going to keep this to-the-point if I can. 1.0.8 brought forth some interesting concepts but in many respects destroyed many elements of gameplay many of us loved. If I could, I would implement the following changes: Allow piggybacking spells once more after and in-between normals. In the rapid state of ever-changing battle, one must be quick to adapt and counter the threat any enemy may present (like a rapid Mindsquash or Kick). Waiting for the normals attack-speed to cycle for the next spell is just simply too long to respond quickly to ever-changing battle situations. Make weapon speed affect Global Cooldown speed. Allow the OPTION for players to cancel non-instant spell casts with movement. I personally hate this and would not opt for it, but some prefer it. I like the old way when I click on a non-instant spell, it stops me and begins casting time instantly then I continue on my way when cast is complete. I'm sure some archers would want this as well as they could develop their attack-rhythm again but still without having an unfair distance advantage over warriors ALL the time. Revert positioning/network code to 1.0.7 and stop the phantom-swings! 1.0.7's positioning code was not perfect but it was the best since the 20% player-movement speed increase. Grey out spells which cannot be cast due to "not enough mana" or "target out of range" Remove spell-casting delays. I'm talking about the delays before casting, not the casting-timers themselves. Even if GCD is finished, some non-instant spells have 1-2 second delays before their cast-timers start (even if just standing there not fighting anything). Bring gold-purchasable horses back. The premium ones last forever now, so the incentive to use Xim to buy them is there. Maybe have the 24 hour gold-buyable horses cost 20-40k. Even when we had the 10k gold ones, I kept saying I wanted a permanent one. But some players simply CANNOT get xim and in a way this current version does make it unfair. Bring back the ability to cancel the spell-casting of enemies! This was a pivotal tactic and if you can't cancel spells like Sanct, Sultar, Camo, warrior's areas, etc, (with the failed cast going into CD and mana being spent), then it really will be "may the biggest zerg win." When casting any non-attack/non-offensive spell, character should not automatically enter combat mode. This is especially useful for conjurers! Please, everyone else add your own thoughts, additions, criticisms and concerns. If we have enough voices here, then maybe the fast-paced, exciting and "dynamic" warfare we once used to thoroughly enjoy can be brought back. __________________ Μολὼν λαβέ* Kyrottimus: 60 - Barbarian (WM) RIP \|\| Rykor: 60 - Knight (WM) RIP Vanosen Sagesight: 60 - Marksman (WM) RIP \|\| Orykus: 60 - Hunter RIP Last edited by Kyrottimus; 10-01-2009 at 01:05 AM.

10-01-2009, 01:42 AM	#3
Immune Master Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York Posts: 279	I agree with pretty much everything except having weapon speed affect GCD, that's what GCD was introduced for in the first place, so faster weapons didn't mean more spells in a shorter time. Personally I like it this way, attack speed shouldn't affect spells. __________________ This is a lie.

10-01-2009, 03:27 AM	#6
Arafails Baron Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Not where it looks like, to either of us. Posts: 706	I'm working on a similar 370ms on average. I've noticed barely any change with mobs (except I've had to change my ages old tendency to cast ripost and start backpedalling immediately), and a significant improvement in my ability to hit other players, which is what matters – I have to guess at the actual position of targets a whole lot less. At this point reversion to 1.0.7 would be essentially a step back into something approaching a dead-end. While the current model needs improvement (proper cancelling of invalid attacks instead of this phantom swing interrupting the real attack timer stuff for example), I feel it really is a whole lot better than it has been for quite some time. __________________ If you can't detect sarcasm yourself, please pay attention when it's pointed out to you. Arathael :: Wyrd Sceote :: Gwn M'ger — Soul Taker, Imperial Guard of Ignis

10-01-2009, 06:54 AM	#7
King_Of_Angmar Banned Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Wherever lag has Teleported me Posts: 99	I'd like those phantom swings to stop as well, but I also really like being able to hit an enemy when i actually get to him instead of when im 5-10 meters in front of him! Not much of a wish here but: -Precise block visual; it would be great to have that back. -Trolls skin cool down put back to what it was in 1.0.7, half the duration. -Maybe reduce mob evasions some more :P Last edited by King_Of_Angmar; 10-01-2009 at 06:57 AM. Reason: Added reduced mob evades

10-01-2009, 01:06 AM	#2
Jacque_Phrost Pledge Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 18	I whole heartedly concur with what's stated here, especially that last one! I'd also add: - Give an exp bonus for support conj who only use heal/buff spells during a particular battle. (Like a 10% exp boost, to help support conj actually be able to make meaningful progress.)