Faith and all the things..

[Angel_de_Combate]

Im sure alot of people have heard of this song recently (personally i like the original version by Jeff Buckley), but im more interested in the lyrics.

Originally Posted by Jeff Buckley

i heard there was a secret chord
that david played and it pleased the lord
but you don't really care for music, do you
well it goes like this the fourth, the fifth
the minor fall and the major lift
the baffled king composing hallelujah

hallelujah...

well your faith was strong but you needed proof
you saw her bathing on the roof
her beauty and the moonlight overthrew you
she tied you to her kitchen chair
she broke your throne and she cut your hair
and from your lips she drew the hallelujah

hallelujah...

baby i've been here before
i've seen this room and i've walked this floor
i used to live alone before i knew you
i've seen your flag on the marble arch
but love is not a victory march
it's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah

hallelujah...

well there was a time when you let me know
what's really going on below
but now you never show that to me do you
but remember when i moved in you
and the holy dove was moving too
and every breath we drew was hallelujah

well, maybe there's a god above
but all i've ever learned from love
was how to shoot somebody who outdrew you
it's not a cry that you hear at night
it's not somebody who's seen the light
it's a cold and it's a broken hallelujah

hallelujah...

Lately ive become very interested in philosophy, faith and such like, i got myself a book today by Friedrich Nietzsche, ive read some of his work on the net, but i just wondered if anyone had any other suggestions of any other philosophers and can you let me know. Thankyou

P.s i posted the lyrics becos..they just nudged something in my head, dont ask me why..lol

[Ulmanyar]

Originally Posted by Skatz1980

(personally i like the original version by Jeff Buckley)

Actually, this song is written by Leonard Cohen, but the version made by Jeff is probably the most famous one. I am a huge fan of Jeff, and he really is/was a remarkable person.

With this post, I don't want to be a besserwisser, I just simply wanted to say that Jeff is a great artist, and that I adore his work.

[Miraculix]

It's a Leonard Cohen song, as Ulma pointed out. Also, there is a verse that Buckley usually leaves out, and Cohen does sometimes too, because of it's sexual content. If you search it a bit you might find a live performance with the complete lyrics.

PS: Oh wait I think the one you posted includes that verse

[Enitharmon]

Some of the most intense religious/philosophical books i've read are Leo Tolstoj's works, "The Kingdom of God is within you", "Confessions", "The Gospel in Brief", although most would categorize those more as religious/mystical than philosophical. I read those in parallell with Nietzsche (...Zarathustra) and even though their conclusions are technically diametrically opposed there is also surprisingly much alike between them (maybe because they lived in the same time period).

[Angel_de_Combate]

Originally Posted by Enitharmon

Some of the most intense religious/philosophical books i've read are Leo Tolstoj's works, "The Kingdom of God is within you", "Confessions", "The Gospel in Brief", although most would categorize those more as religious/mystical than philosophical. I read those in parallell with Nietzsche (...Zarathustra) and even though their conclusions are technically diametrically opposed there is also surprisingly much alike between them (maybe because they lived in the same time period).

Yeah i read something the other day and your name Enitharmon came up :-

Originally Posted by William Blake

Preludium to Europe

The nameless shadowy female rose from out the breast of Orc,
Her snaky hair brandishing in the winds of Enitharmon;
And thus her voice arose

I always wondered where you got the name from

The Nietzche book i have is "Beyond good and Evil", and shamefully im reading it aloud simply because..hmmm well some bits i understand and some i dont. Im interested in philosophy and Nietzsche caught my eye, so could you suggest something that's a bit more palatable to my beginners mind please ? Ill admit im not a believer of God as such (despite the experiences ive had in life that probably contridict this statement), but the whole question of Faith, Religions and Mystical aspects of life are intriguing me but i really dont know where to start, its kind of frustrating.
(I wish i had IRC still Enith to thrash these bits that are bugging me lol)

[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by Skatz1980

... could you suggest something that's a bit more palatable to my beginners mind please ?

The problem with classical philosophers is that they generally came from a world different from the commoner. That is to say, classical philosophers were mostly rich and spent most of their time thinking and writing.

As you know this differs from the commoner who spends their entire life working.

However, this type of lifestyle allowed these philosophers to achieve extreme ideologies, or pure ideas that seem like the most profound and logical thoughts ever created. Yet they often fail to be transferable outside the realm of ideas (aside from their mathematical discoveries) and that is because humans, by and large, don't live like these individuals did or do, for they were the privileged of their time.

This is also another reason why their ideas are so hard to understand, they literately spent years building up their rationalizations by hammering them, and shaping them - creating new words, and analytical styles to to justify, to themselves, the positions they took.

Which in the end makes it insane, in my opinion, to even consider their ideas worthy to follow.

That is not to say they did not have good ideas, rationalizations, but they are so far removed from human reality (hence ideas) that their application to the real world often fails (again aside from mathematics).

But none-the-less I offer this individual as a suggestion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Williams

Originally Posted by Skatz1980

... but the whole question of Faith, Religions and Mystical aspects of life are intriguing me but i really dont know where to start, its kind of frustrating.

The answer to questions of Faith, Religions and Mystical aspects of life wont be found from classical philosophy (or even modern philosophy).

To get these answers one needs to study the theological aspects of a given religion or mystical system in order to understand their significance and then practice them.

However, if you are interested in such things I think the best way to study theological aspects is from a perspective that is resembles those that are most known to you.

For example, for Christianity I would suggest reading from this individual: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aquinas

Or perhaps Dietrich Bonhoeffer, which some of his ideas can be found here http://www.iep.utm.edu/b/bonhoeff.htm

But for Bonhoeffer I would suggest the book: Bonhoeffer's Ethics.

I assume that Christianity is something that you are well acquainted with given that you are British (if I remember right). Understanding their basic rationalizations will allow you to decrypt their worldview and will serve as a bases to allow you apply that, how you come to understand their perspective and their short comings, to other religions and mystical systems.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Originally Posted by DjupaTanken

Actually, this song is written by Leonard Cohen, but the version made by Jeff is probably the most famous one. I am a huge fan of Jeff, and he really is/was a remarkable person.

With this post, I don't want to be a besserwisser, I just simply wanted to say that Jeff is a great artist, and that I adore his work.

Yeah i read up a little on him, he died while swimming in the Wolf River..only 30, will have to have a good look at his other stuff