Regnum, the economy, dwindling wealth...

drunk_harlot · 08-17-2009, 07:42 PM

Hi all.

I've recently been increasingly aware of the economy issues in RO. With Trix (and I'm not implying other classes don't have similar difficulties), I rarely make any significant gold grinding, and on the occasion I do get a few drops to sell, the profit is eaten up within less than an hour of war. I don't think it's the most pressing issue with RO at the moment, but it is an important one. If it wasn't for the help of other players and gold on alternate characters, I think many high level players would struggle to pay repair bills, let alone have spare gold to spare on fort upgrades or gem installations. I frequently borrow (borrow being somewhat inappropriate as I'm unlikely to be able to pay it back in the near future) sums of 100 to 500k to cover my arrows and repairs.

So, I thought we could discuss intelligent and elegant changes that would improve the situation, and should the developers have something imminently planned, give them a chance to indicate anything on the horizon that is relevant to this issue.

Thanks for your time.

UmarilsStillHere · 08-17-2009, 07:50 PM

Hit 50, have about 5-6 million, once that runs dry start a new char (mage for example and leech cash from that, or grind naked with initiation arrows for 5 months.

-Edge- · 08-17-2009, 08:00 PM

Mmm, I was talking about this with a friend today too. I'll cover up some problems I have come to realize.

Personally I don't have a problem with making money, or at least enough to repair my equipment. Why? Because that is another problem:

-Grinding spots are irregular. Some monsters drop totally different loot, with totally different values. The difference being so vast in some spots that like you said, that it creates problems. The follow up problem:

-That some players have an exceptionally hard time making money, while other players can have hordes of it. Which leads to the main problem, that gold itself has no real value. How many people actually trade with gold? People just try to buy Magnanite for ridiculous prices, they are lucky to get a seller. Other then that Magnanite has taken over in the economy. People will not trade their items for gold, they will trade something equal, or for Magnanite.

-Boss loot is a joke. It sells for something near normal mob loot. For something that should be paying off, it sure doesn't pay off. Also, how come you can buy something for 150k, then it sells at the merchant for 1/10th the price? Did you also know that gold is stolen? (10% if I'm correct) When you upgrade a fort. You put for example 400k into a fort, surprisingly the enemy that captures it does not get 400k. Why not?

If you use Premium you will know how much money you can make off Repair Hammers. I repair my armor normally after using it to 70% of its use. The typical repair cost is 30-60k. And I make around 60-80k (100k if I'm lucky in drops) which leaves a small profit for me. A player with a Repair Hammer would not only make all the money they get off loot, but they could repair their armor fully when its at 5% Durability. F2P players have no chance at this, and this is what leads certain players to accumulate more gold then others.

I think that covers nicely the points I feel lead to imbalance in the economy. But that just covers up getting gold, there is the totally different problem of its use after that. Which is a very small use.

Greyman_tle · 08-18-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Edge-

-Grinding spots are irregular. Some monsters drop totally different loot, with totally different values. The difference being so vast in some spots that like you said, that it creates problems.

This make total sense....wolves for example drop fur...orcs drop gold + the odd item. Whats a wolf gonna do with gems/gold/a sword ?

-.....Did you also know that gold is stolen? (10% if I'm correct) When you upgrade a fort. You put for example 400k into a fort, surprisingly the enemy that captures it does not get 400k. Why not?

um..it goes into bricks,mortar etc...I personally would get rid of the 'spare' cash that you get for capture...as its been spent on the upgrades. Unless only the xtra, unused (not yet enuf for upgrade), is given to the capturing side.

I do find that warfare costs a lot less in repair than grinding for the same amount of time.

Weapon reapair i'd get rid of completely....keep the armour repair thou...as a gold 'sink'

Quote:

Originally Posted by veluchami

IMO, there should be some kind of balance brought infavour of people who like to war. In other words, RP should have some value. Maybe RP credit should be an ingredient in any kind of Crafting system. For example to get a Magna weapon you should give 2500 Mag + 25000 RP Credits. Or you should be able to convert RP to gold.. 2500 RP for 250k gold etc... (or whatever is a reasonable equivalent. Like time it takes to gain x amount rp ~= y amount of gold by grinding) Simply put RP should be a form of currency too

Something simpler would be a 'bounty' paid by your realm at RP*10 - so you get say 5RP + 50GP for a kill, instead of the 5RP now.

I personally don't have any GP problems - although that's true in every game I play, its just the way I play i guess (shame real life isn't the same).

Kyrottimus · 08-18-2009, 06:10 PM

In an effort to make the game more fun and less tedious/tiresome, I suggest the following:

1. All weapons and armor become indestructible. After all, they're already intangible objects in cyber-space and you shouldn't have to be forced to grind after 50, as this is seen as the pinnacle goal for which players to reach. I'm convinced this would mean more wars, and especially more small open field battles as people spend more time hunting than drop-grinding. This would mean the end of repair hammers, but they can easily replaced with more popular and useful premium items such as "Gem Forge hammers" (Klutu's and a few others' idea iirc) to combine 2 or more like-gems to make major or great quality gems. I'm sure there are many more ideas for premium items which can replace repair hammers.

2. Arrows are sold in blocks of 500 or 1000 instead of 50, and the cost shouldn't compound exponentially upon stacking more than one block of arrows. Oh, and introduce a spell for archers called "Spiritual Arrows." This would be like Recharged Arrows for marks, but available for all archers as a base spell. Activate-able just like recharged arrows, it would cost 1-5mp (depending on level) per shot but the archer could still effectively fight using normal attacks if they ran out of physical arrows during battle. The amount of damage the arrows conferred would vary from spell level 1-5, but I would make it lightning damage and vary from 5-9 dmg per arrow to 17-29 at level 5.

3. Gold can be brought back into regular economic circulation by requiring it for OPTIONAL less-than-premium items available at every city in each realm. These items could be anything from buying "raffle" tickets held every 4-6 hours for magna or special-item giveaways to things like player-driven auctions (with an optional auction chat tab with simple commands like /bid 50000 to put a bid of gold in for an item up for auction)

4. Celebrate and be merry that you would no longer be forced to grind and worry about repairs or arrows!

Torin_Ironfist · 08-18-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

and the cost shouldn't compound exponentially upon stacking more than one block of arrows.

This is only a visual bug, the actual price that you pay doesn't increase exponentially.

Edit: here is the real price/bugged price. http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1885/prices.jpg

here is a way to buy arrows faster... so you don't have to drag over 1 billion packs of 50
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2613/packof1000.jpg

Kyrottimus · 08-18-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torin_Ironfist

This is only a visual bug, the actual price that you pay doesn't increase exponentially.

Edit: here is the real price/bugged price. http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1885/prices.jpg

here is a way to buy arrows faster... so you don't have to drag over 1 billion packs of 50
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2613/packof1000.jpg

Ahso, visual-bug, eh? I see.

Still, they should be cheaper

Zas_ · 08-27-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrottimus

In an effort to make the game more fun and less tedious/tiresome, I suggest the following:

1. All weapons and armor become indestructible. After all, they're already intangible objects in cyber-space and you shouldn't have to be forced to grind after 50, as this is seen as the pinnacle goal for which players to reach. I'm convinced this would mean more wars, and especially more small open field battles as people spend more time hunting than drop-grinding. This would mean the end of repair hammers, but they can easily replaced with more popular and useful premium items such as "Gem Forge hammers" (Klutu's and a few others' idea iirc) to combine 2 or more like-gems to make major or great quality gems. I'm sure there are many more ideas for premium items which can replace repair hammers.

+1 no repair,
+1 gem forge (though not only as premium, for gold too, as a gold seek).

Quote:

2. Arrows are sold in blocks of 500 or 1000 instead of 50, and the cost shouldn't compound exponentially upon stacking more than one block of arrows. Oh, and introduce a spell for archers called "Spiritual Arrows." This would be like Recharged Arrows for marks, but available for all archers as a base spell. Activate-able just like recharged arrows, it would cost 1-5mp (depending on level) per shot but the archer could still effectively fight using normal attacks if they ran out of physical arrows during battle. The amount of damage the arrows conferred would vary from spell level 1-5, but I would make it lightning damage and vary from 5-9 dmg per arrow to 17-29 at level 5.

+1 arrows are way too expensive, this is not fun.

Quote:

3. Gold can be brought back into regular economic circulation by requiring it for OPTIONAL less-than-premium items available at every city in each realm. These items could be anything from buying "raffle" tickets held every 4-6 hours for magna or special-item giveaways to things like player-driven auctions (with an optional auction chat tab with simple commands like /bid 50000 to put a bid of gold in for an item up for auction)

+1

Quote:

4. Celebrate and be merry that you would no longer be forced to grind and worry about repairs or arrows!

Yes !

UmarilsStillHere · 08-27-2009, 07:56 PM

For grinding to 40 I was using arrows my level, for grind over 40 I now use Initiation arrows, 12 gold per arrow at my level, 5/6 norms per kill 60/72 gold per mob, now with Cycs I would get this back as they often drop 100+ gold + the normal loots, but on other mobs I wouldent get close, or it would eat deep into my profits.

41 -> 42 I gained near 300k so I think Im ok for now. In war though paying per attack is a pain, It would be far cheaper to throw gold at the enemy, No arrow should cost over 10 gold.

Brother-brian · 08-17-2009, 08:31 PM

grind on ghosts. I find they give awesome drops. At least in Alsius.

Another thing, try not to buy armor/weapons.... ever. I try to only use wht I get in drops, and what I cant use, i try to trade with others before i sell to a merchant. One mans trash is another mans treasure.

Example: Im a knight, Im fighting ghosts, and I get 500 arrows (non-special) and a special long bow with some nice stats. But I cant use them. I could sell them, get maybe 20-30k for them, and that can buy me 1 piece of armor at a merchant, if im lucky... non-special, common armor.

OR, I can announce it over realm chat, an archer pms you about it, and he has a "special" knight weapon that he cant use, and was about to just sell to a merchant himself. NOW you meet at gate, trade, you both get better weapons, and save huge cash. And theyre things you can possibly buy at a merchant.

Some people will buy gems, magna rocks, almost anything you get. And try to pass down your old armor to someone who might need it, so he/she doesnt have to spend all that GP on "common" armor as well.

08-17-2009, 07:42 PM	#1
drunk_harlot Pledge Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15	Regnum, the economy, dwindling wealth... Hi all. I've recently been increasingly aware of the economy issues in RO. With Trix (and I'm not implying other classes don't have similar difficulties), I rarely make any significant gold grinding, and on the occasion I do get a few drops to sell, the profit is eaten up within less than an hour of war. I don't think it's the most pressing issue with RO at the moment, but it is an important one. If it wasn't for the help of other players and gold on alternate characters, I think many high level players would struggle to pay repair bills, let alone have spare gold to spare on fort upgrades or gem installations. I frequently borrow (borrow being somewhat inappropriate as I'm unlikely to be able to pay it back in the near future) sums of 100 to 500k to cover my arrows and repairs. So, I thought we could discuss intelligent and elegant changes that would improve the situation, and should the developers have something imminently planned, give them a chance to indicate anything on the horizon that is relevant to this issue. Thanks for your time. __________________ Doll, Molok Knight Level 44 (Recent Hotfix Actually Improved Positional Bugs For Me) Roxi, Esquelio Hunter Level 50 (Soulless War Support Hunter Written Over Trix) \| Trix (Adventuring In Other Lands)

08-17-2009, 07:50 PM	#2
UmarilsStillHere Marquis Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,419	Hit 50, have about 5-6 million, once that runs dry start a new char (mage for example and leech cash from that, or grind naked with initiation arrows for 5 months. __________________ Faith 50 Barb Faithless 50 Lock Umaril 45 Conju Kailas 45 Marks Pel 45 Knight I N Q U I S I T I O N

08-18-2009, 06:10 PM	#5
Kyrottimus Baron Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Montana, U.S.A. Posts: 690	In an effort to make the game more fun and less tedious/tiresome, I suggest the following: 1. All weapons and armor become indestructible. After all, they're already intangible objects in cyber-space and you shouldn't have to be forced to grind after 50, as this is seen as the pinnacle goal for which players to reach. I'm convinced this would mean more wars, and especially more small open field battles as people spend more time hunting than drop-grinding. This would mean the end of repair hammers, but they can easily replaced with more popular and useful premium items such as "Gem Forge hammers" (Klutu's and a few others' idea iirc) to combine 2 or more like-gems to make major or great quality gems. I'm sure there are many more ideas for premium items which can replace repair hammers. 2. Arrows are sold in blocks of 500 or 1000 instead of 50, and the cost shouldn't compound exponentially upon stacking more than one block of arrows. Oh, and introduce a spell for archers called "Spiritual Arrows." This would be like Recharged Arrows for marks, but available for all archers as a base spell. Activate-able just like recharged arrows, it would cost 1-5mp (depending on level) per shot but the archer could still effectively fight using normal attacks if they ran out of physical arrows during battle. The amount of damage the arrows conferred would vary from spell level 1-5, but I would make it lightning damage and vary from 5-9 dmg per arrow to 17-29 at level 5. 3. Gold can be brought back into regular economic circulation by requiring it for OPTIONAL less-than-premium items available at every city in each realm. These items could be anything from buying "raffle" tickets held every 4-6 hours for magna or special-item giveaways to things like player-driven auctions (with an optional auction chat tab with simple commands like /bid 50000 to put a bid of gold in for an item up for auction) 4. Celebrate and be merry that you would no longer be forced to grind and worry about repairs or arrows! __________________ Μολὼν λαβέ Kyrottimus: 60 - Barbarian (WM) RIP \|\| Rykor: 60 - Knight (WM) RIP Vanosen Sagesight: 60 - Marksman (WM) RIP \|\| Orykus: 60 - Hunter RIP

08-27-2009, 07:56 PM	#9
UmarilsStillHere Marquis Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,419	For grinding to 40 I was using arrows my level, for grind over 40 I now use Initiation arrows, 12 gold per arrow at my level, 5/6 norms per kill 60/72 gold per mob, now with Cycs I would get this back as they often drop 100+ gold + the normal loots, but on other mobs I wouldent get close, or it would eat deep into my profits. 41 -> 42 I gained near 300k so I think Im ok for now. In war though paying per attack is a pain, It would be far cheaper to throw gold at the enemy, No arrow should cost over 10 gold. __________________ Faith 50 Barb Faithless 50 Lock Umaril 45 Conju Kailas 45 Marks Pel 45 Knight I N Q U I S I T I O N

08-17-2009, 08:31 PM	#10
Brother-brian Master Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 271	grind on ghosts. I find they give awesome drops. At least in Alsius. Another thing, try not to buy armor/weapons.... ever. I try to only use wht I get in drops, and what I cant use, i try to trade with others before i sell to a merchant. One mans trash is another mans treasure. Example: Im a knight, Im fighting ghosts, and I get 500 arrows (non-special) and a special long bow with some nice stats. But I cant use them. I could sell them, get maybe 20-30k for them, and that can buy me 1 piece of armor at a merchant, if im lucky... non-special, common armor. OR, I can announce it over realm chat, an archer pms you about it, and he has a "special" knight weapon that he cant use, and was about to just sell to a merchant himself. NOW you meet at gate, trade, you both get better weapons, and save huge cash. And theyre things you can possibly buy at a merchant. Some people will buy gems, magna rocks, almost anything you get. And try to pass down your old armor to someone who might need it, so he/she doesnt have to spend all that GP on "common" armor as well. Last edited by Brother-brian; 08-17-2009 at 09:17 PM.

08-17-2009, 08:00 PM	#3
-Edge- Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Łódż, Poland Posts: 1,506	Mmm, I was talking about this with a friend today too. I'll cover up some problems I have come to realize. Personally I don't have a problem with making money, or at least enough to repair my equipment. Why? Because that is another problem: -Grinding spots are irregular. Some monsters drop totally different loot, with totally different values. The difference being so vast in some spots that like you said, that it creates problems. The follow up problem: -That some players have an exceptionally hard time making money, while other players can have hordes of it. Which leads to the main problem, that gold itself has no real value. How many people actually trade with gold? People just try to buy Magnanite for ridiculous prices, they are lucky to get a seller. Other then that Magnanite has taken over in the economy. People will not trade their items for gold, they will trade something equal, or for Magnanite. -Boss loot is a joke. It sells for something near normal mob loot. For something that should be paying off, it sure doesn't pay off. Also, how come you can buy something for 150k, then it sells at the merchant for 1/10th the price? Did you also know that gold is stolen? (10% if I'm correct) When you upgrade a fort. You put for example 400k into a fort, surprisingly the enemy that captures it does not get 400k. Why not? If you use Premium you will know how much money you can make off Repair Hammers. I repair my armor normally after using it to 70% of its use. The typical repair cost is 30-60k. And I make around 60-80k (100k if I'm lucky in drops) which leaves a small profit for me. A player with a Repair Hammer would not only make all the money they get off loot, but they could repair their armor fully when its at 5% Durability. F2P players have no chance at this, and this is what leads certain players to accumulate more gold then others. I think that covers nicely the points I feel lead to imbalance in the economy. But that just covers up getting gold, there is the totally different problem of its use after that. Which is a very small use.