Offensive V Defensive/Support

SPARTISH · 08-27-2011, 02:14 AM

(The Poll is multiple choice)

(Main Question)

Offensive Classes
Barbarian
Marksmen
Warlock

Defensive/Support Classes
Knight
Hunter
Conjurer

The offensive class should have little armor/defensive buffs and mainly be focused on attack getting assistance on defensive and support from the defensive/support classes...

Knights Buffing Defence + Assisting during fights,
Conjurers Healing + Assistingduring fights,
Hunters Scouting + Assisting during fights.

Saying this am i right in making the assumption that the barbarian may have too much defence (or not enough defence reduction with self buffs) and a marksmen shouldn't have more defence than a hunter?

(side Question)
Ok with a barbarian i am a little confused with sticking into offensive because they have ok/good armor and deal amazing damage but they can also buff their teamates damage and have the ability to assist in speed. Should the offensive classes also have buffs to also assist or is this too much?

Also a Warlock has the ability to buff up teamates and assist in mana, isnt this too much?

Kitsuni · 08-27-2011, 06:08 AM

I agree however I would have to point out that there are serious flaws in the both the defensive and offensive classes that prevents this from becoming a reality.

Marksman:
A marksman does little damage on a heavily armored or buffed opponent compared to the damage they take if unbuffed (and they would lose buffs by this analogy), 300 dmg per hit vs. 750-1k per spell (Warlock) or 800-1.5k a hit (Barbarian). They are far from the 900-damage-DSed-normal-hits and 2k serpent and 1k arcanna and 20sec Ethereal CD machines of destruction of the past, even with that rediculous range they have now.

Another coveat is that enemies can also simply hide behind trees.

Warlock:
Completely disabled by dizzies. Enemies can simply hide behind trees. In fact, I would argue that a Warlock is the most in need of defenses in the current state of the game, they are rediculously fragile to the point where as a warlock, you constantly shift between vaporizing players and getting vaporized yourself. I don't think playing a class should have a 50/50 win/loss ratio even when allies are around...

Barbarian:
Even as the fastest class, they cannot always reach a target. Barbarian battles are "win or lose", meaning that they either win, or they lose. The outcome of every fight is determined by the success or failure of a few actions, the intelligence of the enemy, and the terrain. If they use their defense (Frenzy, Caution, Passives, UM) to get into range, then their damage (combined with their defenses) is OP. if they don't, its not.

Because of these reasons, defensive casses should have -more- defenses, not -all- defenses. One on one vs an offensive class of the same superclass, the battle should be a stalemate: Barbarians damage should be nullified by Knight's protections, and they should kill each other at the same rate. The same goes for the Marksman and Hunter, and Warlock vs Warju. That last bit may seem strange; but I honestly believe that when a class can survive very well in PvP, they are better geared for war situations. That is something the Conjuror used to excel at before they got the stuffing nerfed out of them.

Just my thoughts.

wizardmagewarlock · 08-27-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPARTISH

Ok with a barbarian i am a little confused with sticking into offensive because they have ok/good armor and deal amazing damage but they can also buff their teamates damage and have the ability to assist in speed. Should the offensive classes also have buffs to also assist or is this too much?

I think it is not too much. There are lots of range fights in the game, and warriors (in this case barbarians) need to buff their teammates otherwise they won't earn RPs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPARTISH

Also a Warlock has the ability to buff up teamates and assist in mana, isnt this too much?

I think none of the warlocks use the Enchantments skilltree at forts.

standistortion · 08-27-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

I think none of the warlocks use the Enchantments skilltree at forts.

A lot do for dispel

_Seinvan · 08-27-2011, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by standistortion

A lot do for dispel

I throw dispels like a conj would on my warlock

Lekarz · 08-28-2011, 02:10 PM

If there is no other conju, warlock with dispell is Bless for me.

impp · 09-17-2011, 09:58 PM

If this is a RvR game then this is the way it should be.

I understand Kits argument but they all seem to err towards PvP encounters.

A barb can reach anyone with support. DI, dispell, knight areas.

A warlock can survive with support. DI, dispell, mana pylon, health, knight areas.

A marks has no worries with support. Buffs, and I'm sorry I am not seeing many players surviving the onslaught of a couple a marksmen.

As you can see no support from hunter, cause he ain't got any!

I have said before that having healers live longer is not a bad thing, it could probably extend to all mage types if warlock DoTs were taken down a notch (or DoT mechanics were fixed so they don't ignore most defences).

Main problem really is low population times when there are not enough players to operate offensive/defensive synergy. Playing support is hard if there is no one to support. For example I was grinding knight this morning (Ra, 9am GMT) and in 2 hours saw nothing but marksmen roaming the warzone killing everyone. No forts touched in the entire time.

View Poll Results: Am i right or wrong in assuming this?
Right	10	55.56%
Wrong	6	33.33%
Some good points	8	44.44%
Some bad points...	5	27.78%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

08-27-2011, 02:14 AM	#1
SPARTISH Initiate Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The United kingdom Posts: 191	Offensive V Defensive/Support *(The Poll is multiple choice)* (Main Question) Offensive Classes Barbarian Marksmen Warlock Defensive/Support Classes Knight Hunter Conjurer The offensive class should have little armor/defensive buffs and mainly be focused on attack getting assistance on defensive and support from the defensive/support classes... Knights Buffing Defence + Assisting during fights, Conjurers Healing + Assistingduring fights, Hunters Scouting + Assisting during fights. Saying this am i right in making the assumption that the barbarian may have too much defence (or not enough defence reduction with self buffs) and a marksmen shouldn't have more defence than a hunter? (side Question) Ok with a barbarian i am a little confused with sticking into offensive because they have ok/good armor and deal amazing damage but they can also buff their teamates damage and have the ability to assist in speed. Should the offensive classes also have buffs to also assist or is this too much? Also a Warlock has the ability to buff up teamates and assist in mana, isnt this too much? __________________ It's all about the money, because money makes the world go round, and round the bend, who knows when all this crazy sht will end. Last edited by SPARTISH; 08-27-2011 at 06:17 AM.*

08-27-2011, 06:08 AM	#2
Kitsuni Baron Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 886	I agree however I would have to point out that there are serious flaws in the both the defensive and offensive classes that prevents this from becoming a reality. Marksman: A marksman does little damage on a heavily armored or buffed opponent compared to the damage they take if unbuffed (and they would lose buffs by this analogy), 300 dmg per hit vs. 750-1k per spell (Warlock) or 800-1.5k a hit (Barbarian). They are far from the 900-damage-DSed-normal-hits and 2k serpent and 1k arcanna and 20sec Ethereal CD machines of destruction of the past, even with that rediculous range they have now. Another coveat is that enemies can also simply hide behind trees. Warlock: Completely disabled by dizzies. Enemies can simply hide behind trees. In fact, I would argue that a Warlock is the most in need of defenses in the current state of the game, they are rediculously fragile to the point where as a warlock, you constantly shift between vaporizing players and getting vaporized yourself. I don't think playing a class should have a 50/50 win/loss ratio even when allies are around... Barbarian: Even as the fastest class, they cannot always reach a target. Barbarian battles are "win or lose", meaning that they either win, or they lose. The outcome of every fight is determined by the success or failure of a few actions, the intelligence of the enemy, and the terrain. If they use their defense (Frenzy, Caution, Passives, UM) to get into range, then their damage (combined with their defenses) is OP. if they don't, its not. Because of these reasons, defensive casses should have -more- defenses, not -all- defenses. One on one vs an offensive class of the same superclass, the battle should be a stalemate: Barbarians damage should be nullified by Knight's protections, and they should kill each other at the same rate. The same goes for the Marksman and Hunter, and Warlock vs Warju. That last bit may seem strange; but I honestly believe that when a class can survive very well in PvP, they are better geared for war situations. That is something the Conjuror used to excel at before they got the stuffing nerfed out of them. Just my thoughts.

08-28-2011, 02:10 PM	#6
Lekarz Master Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Poland Posts: 285	If there is no other conju, warlock with dispell is Bless for me.

09-17-2011, 09:58 PM	#7
impp Initiate Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 215	If this is a RvR game then this is the way it should be. I understand Kits argument but they all seem to err towards PvP encounters. A barb can reach anyone with support. DI, dispell, knight areas. A warlock can survive with support. DI, dispell, mana pylon, health, knight areas. A marks has no worries with support. Buffs, and I'm sorry I am not seeing many players surviving the onslaught of a couple a marksmen. As you can see no support from hunter, cause he ain't got any! I have said before that having healers live longer is not a bad thing, it could probably extend to all mage types if warlock DoTs were taken down a notch (or DoT mechanics were fixed so they don't ignore most defences). Main problem really is low population times when there are not enough players to operate offensive/defensive synergy. Playing support is hard if there is no one to support. For example I was grinding knight this morning (Ra, 9am GMT) and in 2 hours saw nothing but marksmen roaming the warzone killing everyone. No forts touched in the entire time.