Balance Update 2011 - Stage 1 - Initial Discussion

[Ashnurazg]

Originally Posted by Latan

i think you're approaching in a wrong way to this balance work.

I think NGD should work on a "ground" balance between the classes, attack and defensive without CC, before making any changes at CC.

CC is the icing on the cake of balance. That's like building a house on a rotten footing. Repairing/Repacing the footing and the house is more stable.

NGD should keep in mind, that even tiny changes can have a large impact.

[Torcida]

Originally Posted by chilko

Balance Update: Crowd Controls



Class: Mages (Warlocks y Conjurer)

Based on the previous explanations we propose the following changes:

• Will Domain: this skill is going to be replaced by "Mummify".
• Mummify: transforms the objective into a mummy showering its movements. Reduces movement speed and attack speed.

[/COLOR]

Wooooow relax NGD, Whats up? You want to kill mages or something? Will domain is our most important spell can't imagine winning a pvp without will domain, I mean comon it isn't a OP spell or something yes it is fast but take a look at the range! Its just 20, so it totally compensates with its fasr casting, other players can simply avoid getting will domained by just move out of its tiny range! Also I never heard anyone complaining about will domain at all... Don't you think you should focus on the REAL problems in CC-balance?

Hands off of Will domain!

[Gawyn_Trakkand]

all of the changes sound good and appropriate but ambush is a nerf further to hunter that wasnt needed.

I suggest making ambush a range 10-15 spell as this will neutralize the advantage gained over other range fighters (as they can hit in that range) but gives better protection vs melee.

Point in case a barb with kick can knock you and if buffed kill you without you getting up from the first knock and kick is instant where as ambush has a cast time so compeletely unfair for archer and offers 0 protection even if cast ime where to be made instant a if a barb kicks you and you ambush if barb gets through first you die this nerf is not needed.

[Kyrottimus]

I like what I'm seeing so far, it's a good starting point and I think, with ample testing and feedback, can be streamlined.

Ambush needed to be nerfed.
Barbs needed a knock removed.
Marks needed less CC

My only complaint is that locks now gain a 3rd slow spell... (with Slow + mindpush and now mummify)

Currently there are no resistances to slow spells at all and no cap on how the -% movement speed malus stacks. Something worth looking into imo, already ripe for spamming. Also, Winter-Stroke needs to have cool-down increased by quite a bit, again, in my opinion.

[Llayne]

Mummify is horrible idea. Already locks kill every other class with ease. You're giving them yet another - movement speed CC? Really? Do you ever play this game? Horrible, just horrible.

[Vincent_Valentine7]

Why not just make Ambush a hunter only skill move it to Scouting and remove Camouflage corpse sence no hunters use it and give ambush a 15m range

[Ricksa]

Originally Posted by Zas_

Overall i don't like the changes you proposed, and if it goes on Amun, i'm pretty sure they will go on production servers as is, as you did most of the time.

What about keeping everything as today but:
- give feint to knights only
- reduce duration (and perhaps CD) of all CCs
- add a chance to break CC when a number of damages is received
- drop damage on Burst of Wind
- reduce Confuse duration

+ 1,

Ambush reduced to melee range is as said before a terrible idea it'll just screw hunters over even more so than what they already are...

Same goes for will domain and a conj's chance at defending him/herself if such a scenario were to arise, keep it as is, no need for another slow spell.

And +1 to Vincents proposal of ambush becoming a hunter only spell, useless camo corpse spell needs to go etc..

[Kyrottimus]

Ok, thinking about this a little bit more, I think we're missing the larger picture in balancing CC's.

CC's need balance. Agreed.

But the biggest problem right now with all CC's (knock, stun, dizzy, slow, immobilize, freeze), is either their duration (too long) or their cool-down (too short).

If I were NGD? Well, I'm not them but let's play devil's advocate for a second.

Here's what I'd do regarding single-target CC's:

All slow spells will stack at capped -50% movement speed; no more since speed buffs are already capped at +50%.

Warriors:
Kick CD increased to 30 seconds.
Feint CD increased to 35 seconds.

Barbs:
Remove Feint, give to knights only (*as mentioned in OP).
Rage of the Earth duration reduced, cool-down increased slightly.

Knights (let's face it, they need some buffing yet):
Given Feint only in Vanguard Tree (*as mentioned in OP)
Shield Bash made instant-cast (this is needed so badly)
Protect Ally made instant-cast

Archers:
Confuse duration reduced
Distracting Shot's duration slightly reduced
Stunning Fist made to dizzy opponent with % chance (*as mentioned in OP)

Marksman:
Ambush removed and given to Hunters (to replace Camo Corpse)
Burst of Wind damage removed (*as mentioned in OP)
Winter-Stroke Cool-down doubled (yes, I said doubled)
IMO mana-consumption in marks is currently fine and should remain unchanged.

Hunters:
Given Ambush in place of Camo Corpse
Wild Spirit upped from 7% to 10% movement speed @ level 5

Mages:
Prickling Ivy range reduced to 20m

Warlocks:
Will-Domain removed and given to Conjurers (to replace Summon Imps)
Darkness Duration cut in half; cooldown reduced to 90 seconds.
Slow Duration reduced from 30 seconds to 15 seconds
Mummify added and ONLY reduces a target's attack speed (not movement)

Conjus:
Receive Will-Domain in place of Summon Imps

[esp_tupac]

Originally Posted by Droc

Mummify is horrible idea. Already locks kill every other class with ease. You're giving them yet another - movement speed CC? Really? Do you ever play this game? Horrible, just horrible.

barbs get intimidate now so we are even XD

[DemonMonger]

Originally Posted by chilko

Balance Update: Crowd Controls

Crowd control skills are an important part of combat strategy both for PVP and RVR. Even though all clases have different variations of CC skills, some of their possible combinations generate a great deal of frustrations for Regnum players.

Among the different kinds of CCs, we believe that "knock down" is the most powerful. Not Only these skills leave the target without movement, attacking and casting, but also vulnerable to damage.

For this new balance iteration we will try not to modify a great deal of skills but to adjust a small set of them so we can observe the results in real gameplay conditions. By doing this, the analysis period should be shorter (less modified variables to take into account) and corrections that may arise should be easier to implement.

In this stage we will focus only on CC Skills with a single target.

Considering the above, and after studying both the game and the requests on the fórum, these are the proposed changes to be included in the future version.

Please read all the changes for all the classes before stating an opinion as all of the decisions are intertwined.


Class: Warrior (Barbs & Knights)

The damage that Barbarians can do is high. We don’t believe that the issue is with the damage but with the fact that they have 2 Knocks (feint and kick). The ability to combine both skills creates the opportunity for a barbarían, to eliminate its opponent without a chance to get up.

Both of these skills are part of the “Tactics” discipline, and we don’t want to affect the Knight with this change so we will do the following modification:

• Feint: moved to the “vanguard” -knight only- discipline to replace “intimidate”
• Intimidate: moved to the “Tactics” discipline instead of “Kick”
• Kick: Moved to the 1st place of the discipline in place of feint

We’ll have to do minor adjustments to the mana consumption and/or duration of these skills because of the change of place in the discipline. Although Barbarians will lose one of their CC skills, they will earn a slow skill that will allow them to reach their enemies.

 
Clase: Archer (Hunters and Marksmen)

The tactical situation between Archers and Warriors should play around the difference of range. In normal conditions a warrior that reaches melee range should have a positional advantage.
Because of the different CCs and “counter damage” available in the “Tricks” discipline This theoretical situation does not happen as often as we would like.
The following changes will be introduced with the intention of revert this. siguientes cambios serán introducidos con la intención de revertir la situación mencionada.

• Ambush: The range of this spell will be reduced to melee range. This will allow archers to have a CC suited for melee classes (so to gain range for a brief period of time) but not against other ranged classes.
  With the reduction in range on ambush, most hunter battles will have to be close range. Will hunters gain an increase to passive speed to assist in combat situations due to this change?
  
• Stunning Fist: the effect “Cannot attack” will be replaced either by “Stun” or “cannot cast” (please let us know what you think)

Cannot cast would be beneficial for hunters vs warlocks and conjurers, but almost useless vs barbarians.

This skill is mainly used in close to stop barbarians from killing us with normal attacks when they catch us.

Stun could possibly overpower marks and hunters when combined with Damage over time skills in 1vs1 fights.
Example:
*Tear apart/(serpant bite) + break apart + distracting shot + wait for damage to tick and move in close + ambush + (coldblood)/basics + stunning fist [confuse will not be needed]

Class: Mages (Warlocks y Conjurer)

Based on the previous explanations we propose the following changes:

• Will Domain: this skill is going to be replaced by "Mummify".
• Mummify: transforms the objective into a mummy sLowing its movements. Reduces movement speed and attack speed.
  This give warlocks extreme slowing powers when Mummify + Slow + mindpush.
  This will give conjurers a semi extreme speed reduction Mummify + mindpush.
  This concerns when dealing with warriors and archers with the new ambush, as we will be forced into close combat situations from which we cannot escape.

Subclass: Masksman

We have read many posts about this subclass being OP. We think that this issue is much more related o CCs than damage. Marksmen have a great amount and diversity of long range control skills that allows them to “keep range” all the time.
The combination of said CCs give them an edge against melee classes that need to reach them in order to fight.

This subclass has two CC skills that include damage, Winter Stroke and Burst of wind (cannot be stopped by “divine intervention” hurting team-play)
Also, after the last balance update mana regeneration was increased and it may be too high for this class (both for PVP and RVR)

• Burst of Wind: damage will be removed. +1
• Mana regen: slightly reduced during combat (we’ll add feedback on GUI while “in combat” status)
  Not sure about the mana regen outcome for pvp since we were told game is rvr. In war this will bring us back to the old days when marksmen asked for mana every 20 seconds.

We wanted to have an initial discussion about these changes before we upload to Amun. Please try to explain yourselves and maintain a constructive thread.

Sounds interesting..... comments in green