Balance Update - Stage 2 - Implementation

[HidraA]

Originally Posted by Caroline_Noir

Ever seen a treehugging mage? I have.
When you stand up than freeze him. (Frozen Storm if you are confused)
Than run to the next tree and act like an elf ;P

Ofl it's alsius,tree land...and when you are under confuse/dizzy spells ....warlcok is very vulnerable...confuse ->cant recast barier,dizzy->complet disabled.....and armor of warlock is a very bad joke.....if you dont hug trees your are fuked in a few hits....or even when hunter cast SOTW....can't cast soul keeper or vampirism to drain some HP back...so forced by situation.....

Tree hug is a situation...but you need to take advantage of terrain....terrain is your armor instead of shity armor....

[Caroline_Noir]

Originally Posted by HidraA

Ofl it's alsius,tree land...and when you are under confuse/dizzy spells ....warlcok is very vulnerable...confuse ->cant recast barier,dizzy->complet disabled.....and armor of warlock is a very bad joke.....if you dont hug trees your are fuked in a few hits....or even when hunter cast SOTW....can't cast soul keeper or vampirism to drain some HP back...so forced by situation.....

Tree hug is a situation...but you need to take advantage of terrain....terrain is your armor instead of shity armor....

I didn't mean it as an insult. This is an aspect of the game and I treehug enough myself.

[NSer]

Originally Posted by Caroline_Noir

Ever seen a treehugging mage? I have.
When you stand up than freeze him. (Frozen Storm if you are confused)
Than run to the next tree and act like an elf ;P

Would like but 1 small problem.... i usually dead after ambush is over ... or have 10 HP but hunter csts SoTW and 1 hit koing me Lock can treehug only vs marx ... hunter can just go camo.

[HidraA]

Any way a wile back i suggested how to revamp by categorys all spells...
And still i think working with categorys of spells will make much more easy this balance than only a few minor changes....


Someone suggested ..i think Balint to take a look in first place at all first hight impact spells and i think is right:

Step 1.)Rewanp all first responder spells
First spells that complete disable a player before any fight start.

-Meteor
-Birst of wind
-Wild domain
-Confuse
-Silence
-Kick
-Ambush
(sorry if forgot some)

I think he was right:Longer cast time gave a better advantage to any kind of class to have time to respond at a attack.Also lowering duratioon of effects will give chance to any player to fight back.Longer cold down will breack chains that keep forever dizzy/knoked/unable to buff/cast.

So a sample schematics:

2 seconds(just a random nr...can be longer/lower at suggestion)cast time ->4 up to 10 seconds time of effects (depends of CC and how hight is the impact) -> 30 seconds up to 60 seconds cold down will breack any kind of chain of CC that keep knoked/dizzy till a enemy die and give him the posibilty to fight back.

]Second step 2.)
Rewamp all number of first hight impact spell /class/subclass.

Some classes have too many CC that can keep you dizzy/knocked/unable to buff till you die and unable to have possibility to fight back.
By lowering number of them will avoid anykind of chains.
Exampletook just a random class,all class have some kind of chains)
-first responder for warlock Meteor just a random number effects :7 seconds cd 40 seconds
-second responder frozen storm effects 10 seconds and cd 60 seconds.

This chain is breacked because if he cast meteor 7 seconds effects and after frozen storm he will not be able to cast again meteor as usual after effect of frozen storm gone.

I know ..removing/swaping some kind of spells is a RADICAL but is a need to make road to a more dinamical game and fair.

From here i let ppl to think to next steps.Just think bit more logical than biased.

Sorry for posting this but i think it's better idea to rewamp in this way that Balint suggested that rushing direct to some spell a or class.

I think some users will not consider this again a complaint,i just think it's a different vision about way the game need to be balanced,and in my opinion it's better one.

Also there are a few factors that need to be taken in cosideration:
-Ranged/non ranged subclass;
-Damage that deals during CC;
-Speed/non-speed subclass;
-Resist at dmg/posibilty to buff(as energy barrier at mages)/resist at spells.
maybe more....

A real balance is damn complex think...not only give me that spell/remove that spell/nerf to x spell dmg/nerf x class...the true is nerfing a random attribut/spell will breack a chain but will create other exploit.....

Taking closer look to first hight impact spells(PvP situation,RvR situation need to be adapted after):

Dizzy spells:
-Hight impact vs mages(complete disable mages)
-Medium impact vs warriors and archers(here need to think some classe/subclasses need bufs to to deal dmg)

Knocks spells:
-Hight impact vs all subclasses(disable for chartain amount of time any kind of class)

Cannot attack/cast speels:
-Hight impact of all sublcasses

So balancing this spells by importance:
1.)Hight impact spelss:

a.)Dizzy spells by subclasses
-long time cast for warriors and archers,shorter effects by dmg made Example :beast atack 4 seconds dizzy effects and BoW 6 seconds effects,very long CD(60 seconds)
-medium time cast for mages(this is reduced by arcana),medium dizzy effects 7-8 seconds,medium CD 40 seconds.

b.) Knocks spells by subclass:
-Long time cast for all sublcasses and max 4-5 seconds effect
-CD by dmg dealed 30-35 seconds for archer/mage and 50 seconds for warrior(knight has 2 of them now)

c.)Cannot attack /cast spells by subclass:
Cannot attack:
-Medium cast time for archers/mages/knight and longer for barbarian(by dmg dealed)
Cannot cast:
Longer time cast time for warriors/archers and medium cast time for mages.Also longer cd for warriors/archers and medium CD for mages.

etc...

And as a general balance idea of CC:

Split all CC by importance -> Split all CC by Subclass effects(hight/medium/lower) ->Avoid circle of CC-s(CC 1(4seconds effects 40 seconds CD) CC2 (10 seconds effects 60 seconds CD) like this need to wait a certain amount of time to relauch chain of CC-s
__________________

[Topogigio_BR]

Originally Posted by HidraA

Any way a wile back i suggested how to revamp by categorys all spells...
And still i think working with categorys of spells will make much more easy this balance than only a few minor changes....


Someone suggested ..i think Balint to take a look in first place at all first hight impact spells and i think is right:

Step 1.)Rewanp all first responder spells
First spells that complete disable a player before any fight start.

-Meteor
-Birst of wind
-Wild domain
-Confuse
-Silence
-Kick
-Ambush
(sorry if forgot some)

I think he was right:Longer cast time gave a better advantage to any kind of class to have time to respond at a attack.Also lowering duratioon of effects will give chance to any player to fight back.Longer cold down will breack chains that keep forever dizzy/knoked/unable to buff/cast.

So a sample schematics:

2 seconds(just a random nr...can be longer/lower at suggestion)cast time ->4 up to 10 seconds time of effects (depends of CC and how hight is the impact) -> 30 seconds up to 60 seconds cold down will breack any kind of chain of CC that keep knoked/dizzy till a enemy die and give him the posibilty to fight back.

]Second step 2.)
Rewamp all number of first hight impact spell /class/subclass.

Some classes have too many CC that can keep you dizzy/knocked/unable to buff till you die and unable to have possibility to fight back.
By lowering number of them will avoid anykind of chains.
Exampletook just a random class,all class have some kind of chains)
-first responder for warlock Meteor just a random number effects :7 seconds cd 40 seconds
-second responder frozen storm effects 10 seconds and cd 60 seconds.

This chain is breacked because if he cast meteor 7 seconds effects and after frozen storm he will not be able to cast again meteor as usual after effect of frozen storm gone.

I know ..removing/swaping some kind of spells is a RADICAL but is a need to make road to a more dinamical game and fair.

From here i let ppl to think to next steps.Just think bit more logical than biased.

Sorry for posting this but i think it's better idea to rewamp in this way that Balint suggested that rushing direct to some spell a or class.

I think some users will not consider this again a complaint,i just think it's a different vision about way the game need to be balanced,and in my opinion it's better one.

Also there are a few factors that need to be taken in cosideration:
-Ranged/non ranged subclass;
-Damage that deals during CC;
-Speed/non-speed subclass;
-Resist at dmg/posibilty to buff(as energy barrier at mages)/resist at spells.
maybe more....

A real balance is damn complex think...not only give me that spell/remove that spell/nerf to x spell dmg/nerf x class...the true is nerfing a random attribut/spell will breack a chain but will create other exploit.....

Taking closer look to first hight impact spells(PvP situation,RvR situation need to be adapted after):

Dizzy spells:
-Hight impact vs mages(complete disable mages)
-Medium impact vs warriors and archers(here need to think some classe/subclasses need bufs to to deal dmg)

Knocks spells:
-Hight impact vs all subclasses(disable for chartain amount of time any kind of class)

Cannot attack/cast speels:
-Hight impact of all sublcasses

So balancing this spells by importance:
1.)Hight impact spelss:

a.)Dizzy spells by subclasses
-long time cast for warriors and archers,shorter effects by dmg made Example :beast atack 4 seconds dizzy effects and BoW 6 seconds effects,very long CD(60 seconds)
-medium time cast for mages(this is reduced by arcana),medium dizzy effects 7-8 seconds,medium CD 40 seconds.

b.) Knocks spells by subclass:
-Long time cast for all sublcasses and max 4-5 seconds effect
-CD by dmg dealed 30-35 seconds for archer/mage and 50 seconds for warrior(knight has 2 of them now)

c.)Cannot attack /cast spells by subclass:
Cannot attack:
-Medium cast time for archers/mages/knight and longer for barbarian(by dmg dealed)
Cannot cast:
Longer time cast time for warriors/archers and medium cast time for mages.Also longer cd for warriors/archers and medium CD for mages.

etc...

And as a general balance idea of CC:

Split all CC by importance -> Split all CC by Subclass effects(hight/medium/lower) ->Avoid circle of CC-s(CC 1(4seconds effects 40 seconds CD) CC2 (10 seconds effects 60 seconds CD) like this need to wait a certain amount of time to relauch chain of CC-s
__________________

Completely agree. Just lowering knoks without changing speed, range and damage is more like an unbalancing then a real balance stage.

Also should consider that lowering CC's youput a great focus on damage. So classes with high damage get an advantage. Mages have ways to avoid warriors damage by slowering than, hunter has also this ability with ensnaring. As a matter of balance you should consider to improove slow spells, stunt spells and freezing spells, specially for ranged classes, as they are a way to keep distance without causing to much damage.

[_Enio_]

On Confuse:

What really should be adressed is the duration of this spell, it allows combinations that lead to big frustrations on the receiving target, for some classes it is equal to a plain dizzy (pure support classes/configurations on Conj/Knight). Considering this it should be obvious someting is wrong with it, even when it can be dispelled and when its blocked by DI.

My suggestion:

• Reduce casttime to 1 or even 0.5s casttime.
• Apply 2 debuffs on successful cast as follows:
• 1st: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5s dizzy effect which can cancel a cast.
• 2nd: 7, 9, 11, 13, 15s old confuse effect.

Note 1st and 2nd come combined instantly so itd be actually 1s dizzy + 6s confuse on lvl1 up to 5s dizzy + 10s confuse on lvl 5.

I think this would adress the big frustration of the long shutoff while strengthen it on the first few seconds. 15s max on effect should be a fair number but thats up for discussion.

tl;dr:
New Confuse -> Short initial dizzy (which can cancel casts) + shortened confuse effect.

[HidraA]

Originally Posted by HidraA

Any way a wile back i suggested how to revamp by categorys all spells...
And still i think working with categorys of spells will make much more easy this balance than only a few minor changes....


Someone suggested ..i think Balint to take a look in first place at all first hight impact spells and i think is right:

Step 1.)Rewanp all first responder spells
First spells that complete disable a player before any fight start.

-Meteor
-Birst of wind
-Wild domain
-Confuse
-Silence
-Kick
-Ambush
(sorry if forgot some)

I think he was right:Longer cast time gave a better advantage to any kind of class to have time to respond at a attack.Also lowering duratioon of effects will give chance to any player to fight back.Longer cold down will breack chains that keep forever dizzy/knoked/unable to buff/cast.

So a sample schematics:

2 seconds(just a random nr...can be longer/lower at suggestion)cast time ->4 up to 10 seconds time of effects (depends of CC and how hight is the impact) -> 30 seconds up to 60 seconds cold down will breack any kind of chain of CC that keep knoked/dizzy till a enemy die and give him the posibilty to fight back.

]Second step 2.)
Rewamp all number of first hight impact spell /class/subclass.

Some classes have too many CC that can keep you dizzy/knocked/unable to buff till you die and unable to have possibility to fight back.
By lowering number of them will avoid anykind of chains.
Exampletook just a random class,all class have some kind of chains)
-first responder for warlock Meteor just a random number effects :7 seconds cd 40 seconds
-second responder frozen storm effects 10 seconds and cd 60 seconds.

This chain is breacked because if he cast meteor 7 seconds effects and after frozen storm he will not be able to cast again meteor as usual after effect of frozen storm gone.

I know ..removing/swaping some kind of spells is a RADICAL but is a need to make road to a more dinamical game and fair.

From here i let ppl to think to next steps.Just think bit more logical than biased.

Sorry for posting this but i think it's better idea to rewamp in this way that Balint suggested that rushing direct to some spell a or class.

I think some users will not consider this again a complaint,i just think it's a different vision about way the game need to be balanced,and in my opinion it's better one.

Also there are a few factors that need to be taken in cosideration:
-Ranged/non ranged subclass;
-Damage that deals during CC;
-Speed/non-speed subclass;
-Resist at dmg/posibilty to buff(as energy barrier at mages)/resist at spells.
maybe more....

A real balance is damn complex think...not only give me that spell/remove that spell/nerf to x spell dmg/nerf x class...the true is nerfing a random attribut/spell will breack a chain but will create other exploit.....

Taking closer look to first hight impact spells(PvP situation,RvR situation need to be adapted after):

Dizzy spells:
-Hight impact vs mages(complete disable mages)
-Medium impact vs warriors and archers(here need to think some classe/subclasses need bufs to to deal dmg)

Knocks spells:
-Hight impact vs all subclasses(disable for chartain amount of time any kind of class)

Cannot attack/cast speels:
-Hight impact of all sublcasses

So balancing this spells by importance:
1.)Hight impact spelss:

a.)Dizzy spells by subclasses
-long time cast for warriors and archers,shorter effects by dmg made Example :beast atack 4 seconds dizzy effects and BoW 6 seconds effects,very long CD(60 seconds)
-medium time cast for mages(this is reduced by arcana),medium dizzy effects 7-8 seconds,medium CD 40 seconds.

b.) Knocks spells by subclass:
-Long time cast for all sublcasses and max 4-5 seconds effect
-CD by dmg dealed 30-35 seconds for archer/mage and 50 seconds for warrior(knight has 2 of them now)

c.)Cannot attack /cast spells by subclass:
Cannot attack:
-Medium cast time for archers/mages/knight and longer for barbarian(by dmg dealed)
Cannot cast:
Longer time cast time for warriors/archers and medium cast time for mages.Also longer cd for warriors/archers and medium CD for mages.

etc...

And as a general balance idea of CC:

Split all CC by importance -> Split all CC by Subclass effects(hight/medium/lower) ->Avoid circle of CC-s(CC 1(4seconds effects 40 seconds CD) CC2 (10 seconds effects 60 seconds CD) like this need to wait a certain amount of time to relauch chain of CC-s
__________________

And to balance DMG ,see Narzoul's post,very uselfull for NGD as usual sorry for forgot to add... http://regnumonline.com.ar/forum/showthread.php?t=76545

[HidraA]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

On Confuse:

What really should be adressed is the duration of this spell, it allows combinations that lead to big frustrations on the receiving target, for some classes it is equal to a plain dizzy (pure support classes/configurations on Conj/Knight). Considering this it should be obvious someting is wrong with it, even when it can be dispelled and when its blocked by DI.

My suggestion:

• Reduce casttime to 1 or even 0.5s casttime.
• Apply 2 debuffs on successful cast as follows:
• 1st: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5s dizzy effect which can cancel a cast.
• 2nd: 7, 9, 11, 13, 15s old confuse effect.

Note 1st and 2nd come combined instantly so itd be actually 1s dizzy + 6s confuse on lvl1 up to 5s dizzy + 10s confuse on lvl 5.

I think this would adress the big frustration of the long shutoff while strengthen it on the first few seconds. 15s max on effect should be a fair number but thats up for discussion.

tl;dr:
New Confuse -> Short initial dizzy (which can cancel casts) + shortened confuse effect.

Agree with this .

[HunterRed]

Archers / Hunters:

The skill "Confuse" will be Hunter-exclusive, switching places with "Sentinel" from the "Scouting" discipline.
The range of the skill "Heal Pet" will be enhanced to 15 mts.

LOL!

U people r crazy! Does anyone of u ever played a hunter?!
U removed confuse for marx but gave them much more usable spell?! This is your vision of balance?

And HEAL PET?! Heal a useless pet that dies in 2 seconds...so u helped us like that he can survive 3 sec`s...lol

I don`t want to mention knock spells...hunters don`t have it anyway...oh yea...there is useless ambush that u can`t cast on time...

I propose to all hunters - leave u`re hunter and make marx...let`s bully other classes like they`re bulling ours :P

[NSer]

Originally Posted by HunterRed

LOL!

U people r crazy! Does anyone of u ever played a hunter?!
U removed confuse for marx but gave them much more usable spell?! This is your vision of balance?

And HEAL PET?! Heal a useless pet that dies in 2 seconds...so u helped us like that he can survive 3 sec`s...lol

I don`t want to mention knock spells...hunters don`t have it anyway...oh yea...there is useless ambush that u can`t cast on time...

I propose to all hunters - leave u`re hunter and make marx...let`s bully other classes like they`re bulling ours :P

Dude are u trolling or just stupid (yes lazy to google this macro)? Sentinel is only 7 damage on lvl5!