What is balance?

[Manuka]

Originally Posted by Phlue4

Balance is,
when every class can win against each other one in a PvP
.....(without running behind trees, rocks etc),
Absolutely wrong imo, because this should not be the priority for rvr. Only the secondary more duel like hunting activities demand this. Rather the strenghts and weaknesses of all six subclasses(roles) should complement each other, like rock, paper, scissors and "enforce" teamplay for more fort war as regnums prime game focus.
when every class has a spezific and useful part in RvR,true
when every class has the same possibilities for getting rlms / drops of bosses,true
when it is fun playing every damn class.true, but not contrary to #1

In relation to the rvr aspect realm balance is another important coefficent of player experience. As already said, there is no perfect balance in mmos and its a continual process of fine tuning, because new features and interdependances influence balance.

[Kaixo]

Originally Posted by Manuka

Absolutely wrong imo, because this should not be the priority for rvr. Only the secondary more duel like hunting activities demand this. Rather the strenghts and weaknesses of all six subclasses(roles) should complement each other, like rock, paper, scissors and "enforce" teamplay for more fort war as regnums prime game focus.

Priority is completely irrelevant when someone talks about what is balance.
"Rock, paper and scissors balance" would work well if the game was based on instances with defined number of players. But on this game you can have all kind of encounters, so that kind of balance would be like an invitation to try other games.

[Seher]

Originally Posted by Archonaut

Even Paper, Rocks and Scissors is unbalanced.

Depends on which balance definition you use. Does balance mean equal chances to win? Then rock, paper, scissors is balanced.

But as I've already written, I think balance is primarily about gameplay and fun. Rock, Paper and Scissors is one of the most "imbalanced" games, then. And again and again people think that games should involve such a system...

[Raindance]

It's like asking why the sky is blue. You're just downgrading yourself over and over with each post. I thought your 'first' ban would've done you good. Guess noooot.

[Manuka]

Originally Posted by Kaixo

Priority is completely irrelevant when someone talks about what is balance.

Its not, because the mode of game points to the alignment of balance. I dont think there is one unique general balance for everything since it always depends on the circumstances of intended play.

Originally Posted by Kaixo

"Rock, paper and scissors balance" would work well if the game was based on instances with defined number of players. But on this game you can have all kind of encounters, so that kind of balance would be like an invitation to try other games.

You are right that it doesn't fit all combat scenarios of ro, but it still supports war experience better than if there were no need to play as a team. Instances are no option for rvr. Nevertheless i believe it would be the right way to have less perfectly even weighted classes, as it helps against ego solo players. Of cause the drafted shape of interlocking teamwork should not frustrate but still encourage cooperation in large battles.

[Latan]

Originally Posted by Archonaut

Even Paper, Rocks and Scissors is unbalanced.

that's why sheldon added lizard and spock

[Vaylos]

My idea of balance is that all classes should have good synergy working as a team. Some skills might need some overlap to achieve that synergy, but that's okay IMO.

But, in 1v1, or small group combat, classes should also be able to hold their own. There should not be any "easy wins" Unless a player specifically sets up to do that. Each class should have the chance of winning a fight without using terrain. Although terrain use is a valid tactic, IMO, it shouldn't be "necessary" for a barb/knight to use it to kill a marks or a hunter, just as a hunter/marks should have the chance to kill or at least control a barb/knight or get away if the barb/knight gets too close. Even if it is a small chance. Right now there is practically -no- chance unless the barb or knight are incompetent.

The range vs. melee dynamic is one that really needs some looking at IMO. There is no middle ground or close call. If the barb catches the archer. There is no fight, only death. If the archer keeps the barb/knight away, there is no fight, only a prolonged and slow death for the melee class. (knights particularly have a problem vs. archers due to no speed/running buff, aside from horn/onslaught from a companion)

This has been discussed in the past, but I think there is too much running around and pre-setup, and not enough actual combat in the game. I think to improve the overall game dynamic, there needs to be a -little- bit of skill overlap between classes. I think this would help promote the group dynamic, add synergy to RvR, and improve survivability of individual classes. I realize the "shared trees" between classes have this overlap, but....I don't think it quite works the way it should, as there really is no "making a comeback" or "middle ground" It is either this way, or that way.


These are my general feelings on what I've observed playing in various scenarios over the course of the game. That doesn't mean I'm right, or have the right opinion, and I'm fine with people disagreeing with me. These are just how I perceive things in a very broad/general sense of the combat dynamic. Range vs. Melee, speed, actual combat, survivability/self-sufficiency, etc. And I think all classes need to be improved somewhat to achieve a greater sense of fun.

[isgandarli]

What is balance? Don't know...
What is love? Answer

[VeterKh]

Balance is something that involves a lot of factors.
Balance is a big work. The work for which, in principle, pay the money.

bad work - bad money. bad money - bad balance.

"bad balance sits in each of us,
bad balance leads you into ecstasy ... " (c) Bad Balance

[Kittypretty]

Balance:

Barbarians/Marksman - Regnum Is balanced.
Other Classes - Sucks to be you, choose one of the above.


Seriously though they do need to do balance all at once, even if its a massive overwhelming undertaking I can't say I'd ever want to do, or we'll continue with these nerfs to singular skills that could/should be countered/provided by an ally/enemy otherwise, this is a TEAM based game, I don't expect to have a counter to every class/skill, BUT I do hope an ally DOES, or strengthens a classes' weakness because of his role or skills, so even the worst match ups can benefit each other without one class completely useless or helpless against whatever opponents they are facing.

for example, (and maybe not the best example but..) Knights had Deflecting Barrier and Conjurers had Protection Dome, both considered a tad OP admittedly, but consider a Warlocks' Sultars Terror. Both skills were in their OP state with not much complaints, until both (possible) counters were changed (nerfed, or adjusted, i am not arguing that they didn't need a change, but it affected ST in a bad way, thus ST was nerfed too in turn because of mass complaints from ST chain deaths)

THEN a few months later, ST was nerfed as well, making all 3 spells alot less common/useful in use because they simply weren't as effective or had limited uses in war with the new changes. (Beacons also contribute to less and less CC's, will slow be added next?)

It is like trying to complete a puzzle piece by piece, but the picture keeps changing.