New invasion system....

[Rising_Cold]

@monthesser

and we are replying with alsius invaded with 'non-existing' goats, I did not enjoy those invasions
yes we didnt complain, because we knew it would only last till the end of the xmas holiday

the goats that have been playing RO for a while are the ones that enjoy a challenge
those good for nothing zergs were only fun for the people who only like winning


BUT

this thread isnt about multirealming or zergs or who is underpop or not
It happens to all realms, the problem we need a solution for is the lack of fun with the invasions

so please lets try to help eachother out, as it seems that NGD actually monitors the topics nowadays


personally, I see a goldmine in the idea named a few posts back..
capturing towns and stuff

It could give a new thingy to capturing the gems, as i doubt NGD would get rid of wishes
afterall, gems are important, but no npc in the realm guards it?

you could add that the enemy realm has to capture, for example birka, to make sure
the defending forces (NPC's) focus on their town and leave the gem ungaurded
so the enemy realm can pick it up
capturing a town shouldnt be to hard, afterall 3 relics had to be captured
but it would be.. interesting

[Evangeline]

Originally Posted by Rising_Cold

BUT

this thread isnt about multirealming or zergs or who is underpop or not
It happens to all realms, the problem we need a solution for is the lack of fun with the invasions

so please lets try to help eachother out, as it seems that NGD actually monitors the topics nowadays

invasions are pretty fun i got no complaints, what part of the invasions aren't fun?

[Kimahri_Ronso]

Originally Posted by nohan

invasions are pretty fun i got no complaints, what part of the invasions aren't fun?

Originally Posted by Kimahri_Ronso

1> There's no, but really zero chance to fight the dragon at gate.

2> You cannot chase gem because of dragon is camping the gate and you get one-hit-killed by it if you try it.

3> Trap doors are too far away from the main gate and you have to ride miles to get out of your OWN realm to try a chase on the gems.

4> You can't do anything with only a few allies (5-10) VS. 20-25+dragon at all, so there should be some kind of mechanism that allows the defending realm to dismiss / disable the enemy dragon. This could be either an immunity of his attacks or a spell that every defender gets and will be able to dismiss the dragon with a ranged spell when such situation occurs (underpopulated vs. overpopulated)

Those parts ^^

A possible solution:

Originally Posted by Kimahri_Ronso

There could be two chests at the gate, both could function as a merchant.
One of them would sell "Dragon costumes" (>or whatever, insert a name here <) that would nullify the enemy's dragon all attacks for let's say 5-10 mins (these costumes could be used just like any party hats and such so you shouldn't have to take your main armors off) , the other would make it possible for the defenders to "purchase" Guard Captains as many times as they desire and "Nails"... This also would give gold a new meaning, we could waste it on these too .
Those GC's should be placed right in front of the main gate, inner side of the realm and as for the "nails", they could be used for disabling the side doors for the attackers, hence they couldn't use those but only the main gate!

Also, these chests should be destroyable but that should be really hard, they should have a lot of HP! After one chest was destroyed those who have destroyed it should get some gold reward just like when a lvl4 fort is being taken..

These new chests would only appear once a realm is being badly outnumbered and only then. Or?

EDIT: The destroyed chests would "re-spawn" after a certain time has passed.

[Groark]

Invasions are the fun part of this game. The new system needs ofc to be improved in some aspects, like maybe the extreme damage of the dragon. We miss the timer and the warnings like before when gates are being broken, etc. The relic system needs also some minor changes, etc.
Just let's wait and see.

[Tamui]

Originally Posted by Groark

Invasions are the fun part of this game. The new system needs ofc to be improved in some aspects, like maybe the extreme damage of the dragon. We miss the timer and the warnings like before when gates are being broken, etc. The relic system needs also some minor changes, etc.
Just let's wait and see.

Agreed. Somewhere I read, that gates are to act as forts, meaning you can capture them by brute force without the dragon. I hope that's true because it would be boring always summoning dragon to attack.
The dragons are really cool. Of course, a dragon should be powerful, however, there should be a chance of attacking the dragon or blocking it somehow. Massive 23k stomps and 15k 25m area fireballs are really horrible. I would agree in tuning the damage, maybe as it was as a boss only. Perhaps a little higher.
Should the dragons be killed? Maybe. Maybe with some mechanism like the relics.
I also thought if the defending realm could summon their own dragon to defend their realms.
Another thought is, that apart from the stomps and breathing fire, the dragon should give buffs or debuffs...or both.

[roonwick]

the dragon helping is cool, I think we all agree we don't want to get rid of it. At the moment, the dragon appears for a certain time after capturing relics, and the dragon is supposed to help capture the gate. My idea: let's keep this unchanged, and we can even keep the current dragon unchanged. The only change is the dragon timing. it disappears when the gate is captured. It's helped the attackers the attackers get into the enemy realm, the rest is up to them.

[Kimahri_Ronso]

Originally Posted by Tamui

Agreed. Somewhere I read, that gates are to act as forts, meaning you can capture them by brute force without the dragon. I hope that's true because it would be boring always summoning dragon to attack.
The dragons are really cool. Of course, a dragon should be powerful, however, there should be a chance of attacking the dragon or blocking it somehow. Massive 23k stomps and 15k 25m area fireballs are really horrible. I would agree in tuning the damage, maybe as it was as a boss only. Perhaps a little higher.
Should the dragons be killed? Maybe. Maybe with some mechanism like the relics.
I also thought if the defending realm could summon their own dragon to defend their realms.
Another thought is, that apart from the stomps and breathing fire, the dragon should give buffs or debuffs...or both.

As far as I know the gate can be attacked anytime without having all relics, so you don't need to summon your dragon to do so, but it's HP regenerates back too fast so you can't break it...

If the defender realm's dragon would also be so ridiculously strong as the attackers one, then I doubt that it would be possible at all to succeed with an invasion, so don't think it's a good idea.

As for the dragon that would buff on a zerg and/or debuff the defenders at the same time you cannot be serious .

[Tamui]

Originally Posted by Kimahri_Ronso

As far as I know the gate can be attacked anytime without having all relics, so you don't need to summon your dragon to do so, but it's HP regenerates back too fast so you can't break it...

This. However I'm not sure if it is intended. Once we tried, we had like 30+ Syrtians, almost everyone logged their Barb. We couldn't break it down.
Maybe it's more suitable for Ra?

[bois]

I don't think the design had in mind either the ability to break the gates without summoning a dragon or the ability to kill the dragon.

The system seems to be a method to force a situation where you have exclusively 2 competing realms at a vulnerable gate. It seems that the idea is that the 3rd realm may somehow become spoiler by attacking the assets (relics) of the realm that is trying to invade while they are not home to defend. Optionally the 3rd realm may claim relics from the defending realm's castle. The sheer presence of the dragon (which seems to be a requirement) is to make sure there are only 2 realms competing at any one gate. There will be no easy 2 versus 1. It is possible but improbable. The idea that the dragon can be knocked or frozen leaves the possibility for a small window of action. Still, highly improbable. ( not sure if 'cannot attack' works on it)

The mechanism of gate capture makes sure of this. It is however, flexible enough that players (certain stealth classes in particular) have the ability to pass or pass their team mates through and to the noble if their timing is spot on. They will have little impact on the invasion mechanics though. Their purpose will be one of stealth, not brute force.

By that way, you have a cyclic method. If you notice, you are locked into going after a particular realm once you capture a relic. You are forced to get all three from one opposing realm and you have to summon the dragon. You have no choice in the matter once you place the first relic. You can't mix and match. So, the 3rd realm has no choice but to go after another relic from a realm that has not lost any of their relics. Optionally, they can target a castle that contains the relics they need.
The only reason you might go for a relic that another realm has similar one is if you want to stop or delay the other realm invading or some other tactic.

In a restrictive way this is a new form of balance which I am still analysing. It looks pretty good though. It's much better than the previous version for sure. I do accept that it lacks flexibility. In this case too much flexibility may break the balance NGD is trying to achieve.

Now the issue of players getting killed inside the "safe zone" seems to be that if a single player is in the perimeter between the inside and outside (the gate itself)and gets hit ,the effect gets transmitted to players inside. I am not quite sure if this is really so but it should be tested to make sure this is not actually the case. In every case where is saw this transmission, a vulnerable player was standing in this perimiter zone. I have only seen 3 cases so my logic is quite shaky on this.

The damage of the dragon will probably have to stay (maybe reduced marginally) if the mechanism I think NGD wants will have to remain intact. That is, a massive deterrent to a 3rd realm intervening.

The timers on the taking of relic.

For me I am not quite sure what the time is to release. Some say 30 minutes. I understand why NGD removed the timer bar. It increases urgency and reduces the stop, start, stop, wait type action that timers cause. Based on reports of being able to take relics ' before time' I wonder if there is really a fixed timer or a randomised one based on certain environmental conditions as a trigger. No countdown bar suggests to me that a randomised timer should be the way to go but within certain limits. For example , no less than 25 mins but random between 25 to 30 mins.

Horsing with relic.

I understand (via Wyatt's post anyway) that this is allowed. The question is, should it be allowed ? The other question is can it be blocked via the codes they have. A relic carrier can do and cast everything including a horse (which is a cast). A gem carrier cannot cast anything. This leads me to wonder if it is an all or nothing approach here.
In my view, from an excitement and fun point of view, players running rather than horsing seems to be the most balanced, thrilling, exciting and fair way to go about things for all sides. A horsed player will not be caught easily. Potentially a non horsed player may be even harder to stop but, all the tools available to players come into play. This is what should be aimed for. Utilization of all skills including but not limited to movement speed to get a relic home.

If I got some of the mechanics wrong please don't hesitate to inform me. I am still working it all out and mistakes will be made.

Regards

[C.A.D]

Sorry if it's already been said.
Imo I think there should be 2 dragons helping out e.g. When Syrtis Invade Ignis, Vesper is outside helping them. (Makes it almost impossible for Ignis to get back the gems) But instead have Tenax inside the realm (Inner Great Wall). This way it's a challenge for both realms and more interesting to see how the enemy would get the gems outside (More than half will die by the inner realm dragon) But once they are outside the tides change again.