Amun now open! - Dragon Caves

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by kmdk

And how this will solve multirealmers and bosswhoring issue ?

I still belive this party will be very selective ,you know ... 1 lock ...3 conj etc ...others how will find enough barbs ,enough knights etc ? you know classes are not equal multiplayed over realms to do dragon ^^ ..it's Haven low populated server by time zone.

And belive me by time ,you will get rejected from a party too :"wee have a lock in our party ,wee have 5 more slots for barbs" ..etc

Multirealmers would have to grind their characters to a high level. Best would be lv60 barb. I bet, that not many multirealmers are willing to go that far just to stash dragon drops, so they don't get used.
Many of the players tend to log their low level knights to increase their chances of drops. This will not be the case any more, since a low level knight will most likely not be accepted to the party.
Unpopular people, such as some known multies, who dropwhore, will not be accepted to dragon kills, since the community does control the selection of players for the raid.

Of course, that the parties will be extremely selective. Different classes have variable usefulness in the raid. That's the core of the problem.

[bois]

Why are we even talking about current drop mechanics and chances by Class?

As far as I see it, this new mechanism opens the door for a completely new system. I believe NGD is going to go for that all new system.

Under the old dragon kill way, we had any number of participants in a free for all system in the persistent world where they could join at any stage ,at any level, and the server would have to work out all the variables. Those variables must be the same as exists in the persistent world else things would break.

This new system allows the server to drop all of that and focus tightly because it now has controls and limits.

First up you have limited players (15). This now means the server is locked into 1 of 15 players to drop in the instance.
There is no variance (like I stated in the previous paragraph) to work out so a random number generator is what really matters . With such a simplified system, anyone can drop.
Simply because in an instance, some rules can be modified from the persistent world without breaking anything in that persistent world.

To make things fair, I would nullify the drop booster in the instance. In other words, it is not taken into account in the drop chance equation.

Calculation of things like debuffs, damage, mana can be dropped for a much less complicated formula.
In effect, all you would need to do is contribute to the kill by being active and applying spells or damage to the boss. That would be the only prerequisite to enter the pool to be eligible for a drop. Other than that it is a simple die toss of 1 of 15. Contribute you must because it is only 15 and if everyone does not pull their weight, failure is the only result. No free rides here.

If they are applying gold or XP , guess what? Flat rate across the board. Only 15 players so this becomes rather easy to do. Throw out the level part of the calculation. Each one of the 15 gets equal share. Simple.

NGD is yet to state if they are going to do a level 50 capped version of the boss instances. It is totally possible as they have demonstrated with the new Squid Island. I think they should consider it.

Boss whores may hate me for stating this but I still think that the availability of the top instance should be dependent on acts of war. Want to item whore ? Go to war.

Drop whoring and multi can be fixed by simply having them acquire a ticket to the instance by acts of war.

Quite possibly this template , if successful, can be used to instance the super bosses for they suffer from the same issues like the dragons. However, this may be far in the future and may not take this simple form.

[Frosk]

Originally Posted by bois

Daen Rha, Thorkul and Evendim are next if this is successful.

Pretty nice analysis, but I'm afraid that you should not make assumptions like these, as they may end up being misinterpreted by anyone who may just happen to pass by.

Let's just try to go slow, alright?

Thanks.

[time-to-die]

Originally Posted by Frosk

Pretty nice analysis, but I'm afraid that you should not make assumptions like these, as they may end up being misinterpreted by anyone who may just happen to pass by.

Let's just try to go slow, alright?

Thanks.

Could you please answer this question?
Whats the role of archers with the new dragon raid? People dont even invite archers for the party because they dont have the dmg auras or heals.

[errei]

Originally Posted by time-to-die

Could you please answer this question?
Whats the role of archers with the new dragon raid? People dont even invite archers for the party because they dont have the dmg auras or heals.

1 hunter for death sentence 5 ha

[GreekFireborn]

Originally Posted by errei

1 hunter for death sentence 5 ha

hinder,sudden strike,sticky touch,death sentence for hunter-finger crush for marksmen

[errei]

Originally Posted by Frosk

Nop.

Para poder acceder a los dragones, será necesario tener las reliquias propias en sus respectivos altares.

Por ejemplo, si uno tiene sólo 2 reliquias propias y una ajena en el castillo local, no podrá acceder a la Cueva de Dragón.

Saludos.

own relics will be necesary to kill the dragon... now mostly only alsius will kill it =/ (or the devastated realm which no1 cares picking the relic)

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by errei

own relics will be necesary to kill the dragon... now mostly only alsius will kill it =/ (or the devastated realm which no1 cares picking the relic)

Well, this is something new... and changes quite a bit about the instnaces.

Google had difficulties translating that, but If it's really that you have to have all the three relics of your realm, in order to enter dragon cave, things could be rather interesting.

The strongest realm would be again enforced. Motivation to fight for relics is a good thing, but the strongest realm would be allowed to kill the dragons more often. That means more gear for them.
Weakest realm would scarcely get to kill the dragon. Even if they get the chance (having all of their relics), they would have difficulty killing the boss.
The strongest realm would lure more players, weaker one would not.

Once a relic is lost to a stronger realm, it's much easier to give up the remaining relics (and face an invasion) in order to re-enable the dragon, than to fight for the stolen relic. I do fear that this could happen. Again, the stronger realm would grow further, if this happens.

What about bugged relics? Transporting them to inner realm? There are still problems with the invasion mechanics that I'd like to see addressed, before they're linked to bosses.


I know, that NGD wants to increase the game focus on invasions, but so far these implementations are strongly in favor of the currently dominating realm. Invasions, now bosses.
Weaker realms need and deserve a motivation to maintain the servers balance and increase it's population in the long term.

[bois]

Originally Posted by Frosk

Pretty nice analysis, but I'm afraid that you should not make assumptions like these, as they may end up being misinterpreted by anyone who may just happen to pass by.

Let's just try to go slow, alright?

Thanks.

Alright I'll slow my roll just for you. (last sentence of previous post edited)

Hmm. Requiring relics to open the instance is an interesting direction. For me, I am glad that they tied it to acts of war.But , is it the right part of war they are tying it to? This could fail the acid test of positive feedback loops.

Maybe instead of just offering a defensive option, a defensive and offensive option could be on the table. So, instead of requiring your 3 relics, you need at least one relic of an opponent to unlock the instance.

Having to have all your three home relics could lead to some camping and less emphasis on attacking enemy territory. All in all, it is going to be a tricky one to balance especially as we still have some population issues and time zone fluctuations.
( I need to think about this more, my brain is not working right now XD)

[Linuxmage]

Unfortunately, all this will do is crush the weakest realm even more. On Haven, Syrtis doesnt have enough people at any time of day to stop an opposing realm from taking the relics. Last night, after a lot of shouting and bothering, we got together 10 mid level people to try and stop Alsius trolling us with Herbred relic. There were just 3 level 60 players in that fight, and they had to be persuaded to join. It was effectively 8 Level 50's with default gear vs 15 level 60's with boss items. We were slaughtered, and had no way of keeping the relic. It took us the full 30 minutes to get enough people together to actually recap Herb, by which time the relic was long gone. All in All, Alsius held Herb for an hour, and that was after some of them left to troll with the relic.

People are despondent about fighting for relics now as it is, and Syrtis' population is at an all time low. The idea of having all 3 relics in order for the dragon instance to open will never happen in Syrtis, as Alsius will keep a team onside just to keep possession of our relics to stop us from having a dragon available.

The current situation of Playerbase in Syrtis is so bad that sometimes Syrtis wz is close to completely empty. When I logged in last night, there were just 3 people in the wz that we knew of. By the time I logged out, it had jumped to 15, but they were level 60 players logging in to sell remaining gear or their entire account.