Low population time - Haven

[starshine]

Originally Posted by Krungle

Anyway, Not only has Alsius-Haven been the first to have a dragon kill, we also have succeeded in invading an enemy realm and made a wish now under the new system.

- What does this has to do with the topic?

in fact the only time we seem to have a majority in numbers is when we are invading

- wrong.. you have indeed 20 alsius that are always online no matter what time of the day, but you invade when ignis and syrtis have 4-5 people online. - nothing to be proud of (and same goes for what syrtis and ignis did in the past)


You need to start not posting so people get happier.. And anyway let's go back to the discussion of this topic. You want to discuss about other things, feel free to move to another thread

And whatever me and Cannas said in portuguese (as it is well written, you can use tradutor) it is not related to the topic.. So the discussion about the first topic keeps going on.

[Cranddor]

Originally Posted by starshine

........When is the low population time on Haven? (because there seems not to exist one.)

How it is calculated?

I suppose NGD knows when that is. So they will lock the relics on Haven at those low population hours.

NGD estimated the low population times in RA between 04:00 - 13:00 GMT so they lock the relics during that time. Needles to say that this measure has caused a lot of anger among RA players who can only play at those hours due to their differente time-zones or for whatever reason. Therefore feeling discriminated by that measure many of them are leaving the game.

The whole problem in RA began when some Argentinian players started whining in the Spanish forum about 'they' being invaded "at night" while 'they' sleep. So NGD listened to them and locked the relics.

You see by locking the relics you cancel the whole RvR concept of this game. No relics means no fort wars, no invasions, no gems taking, no noble quests, no nothing. In short wz activity will be reduced to zero at low pop. times (like now on RA).

I suppose that in Haven, being lower populated and all, NGD will be more carefull about that relic-locking.

[Hayir]

Originally Posted by Cranddor

I suppose NGD knows when that is. So they will lock the relics on Haven at those low population hours.

NGD estimated the low population times in RA between 04:00 - 13:00 GMT so they lock the relics during that time. Needles to say that this measure has caused a lot of anger among RA players who can only play at those hours due to their differente time-zones or for whatever reason. Therefore feeling discriminated by that measure many of them are leaving the game.

The whole problem in RA began when some Argentinian players started whining in the Spanish forum about 'they' being invaded "at night" while 'they' sleep. So NGD listened to them and locked the relics.

You see by locking the relics you cancel the whole RvR concept of this game. No relics means no fort wars, no invasions, no gems taking, no noble quests, no nothing. In short wz activity will be reduced to zero at low pop. times (like now on RA).

I suppose that in Haven, being lower populated and all, NGD will be more carefull about that relic-locking.

Yes, sadly many players have this mentallity and can't just have fun doing a normal fort war.

[bois]

Originally Posted by Cranddor

I suppose NGD knows when that is. So they will lock the relics on Haven at those low population hours.

NGD estimated the low population times in RA between 04:00 - 13:00 GMT so they lock the relics during that time. Needles to say that this measure has caused a lot of anger among RA players who can only play at those hours due to their differente time-zones or for whatever reason. Therefore feeling discriminated by that measure many of them are leaving the game.

The whole problem in RA began when some Argentinian players started whining in the Spanish forum about 'they' being invaded "at night" while 'they' sleep. So NGD listened to them and locked the relics.

You see by locking the relics you cancel the whole RvR concept of this game. No relics means no fort wars, no invasions, no gems taking, no noble quests, no nothing. In short wz activity will be reduced to zero at low pop. times (like now on RA).

I suppose that in Haven, being lower populated and all, NGD will be more carefull about that relic-locking.

Yes, a knee jerk reaction. This is why my thoughts are that Invasions in its present form is not working properly on any server and maybe a really serious review is required. The war zone is really big enough to keep all the war and related content there.
Bottom line is this : Haven activity will be damaged if a relic lock were to occur. Pretty much in similar fashion as when you get boosters going.
Our population is too weak, period. We have time zone play groups. They do not overlap deeply enough to keep activity up.
So, mechanics break.
It has always been so, it continues to be so. Because of the conceptual feedback loops that encourage these imbalances, weakly populated servers will continue to suffer from this issue.

Krungle, why troll , why irritate the community by going off topic in so many threads and continually push Alsius fanaticism to the point of delusion? It is pretty much unnecessary to do that to get your point across.

In any case, the server and its population operates in cycles and everything that happens now probably happened many, many times before you got here. None of this stuff is even new or unique.

[Shwish]

Originally Posted by Hayir

Yes, sadly many players have this mentallity and can't just have fun doing a normal fort war.

I remember a while back when people used to play the game for fun. I don't think the newer players understand what its like the fight without a purpose.

[starshine]

Originally Posted by Shwish

I remember a while back when people used to play the game for fun. I don't think the newer players understand what its like the fight without a purpose.

+1 ... And you hear people say: "why take that fort, it has no relic?" , "why go to alsius, if we have syrtis relic?" - For fun, no?

So.. locking the relic, is just doing what it was in the past.. You fight for fun, you take the forts for fun, you war for fun.. and you stop thinking about invasion...

I don't see it so negative as you guys see, but opinons are opinions

[kmdk]

Any limitation by timezone of gameplay will fail in lose players:

-Maybe players complaint about getting invaded …but at least that it was bringing action on war zone ,even you are a invaded realm ,you will have a target to play,if not ,people will get bored grinding or hunting around …

I don't think it's a wise concept at all ,at least for Haven that it's a international server …

I means who cares that people invade weak realms ?…who care if they get farmed ?… at least it's action ,it's better if you long in ,doing nothing at cs ? …and after log out because no action around ?…

And this formulas will fail ,seen it over years with gates guards that respawned for powerful realms and get nothing for week realms ,personally i don't trust some population formulas made by NGD ,i've defended gates with 4 goats and a GC for years in night and tried to invade 10 vs 30 that had 5 GC …

[bois]

Originally Posted by starshine

+1 ... And you hear people say: "why take that fort, it has no relic?" , "why go to alsius, if we have syrtis relic?" - For fun, no?

So.. locking the relic, is just doing what it was in the past.. You fight for fun, you take the forts for fun, you war for fun.. and you stop thinking about invasion...

I don't see it so negative as you guys see, but opinons are opinions

If only it was in the past. The culture of the average player has changed a lot. A lot of times we see so much AFK now. In old Ignis, that was practically unheard of. When you do see action " just for fun" check the make up of the group. Bet you it would have a lot of veterans. Newcomers are task oriented and only move if there is something in it. Veterans who have seen it all are free agents and fight just for the joy it brings and not some profit.

[Lebeau]

From closed thread ("Changelog - Version 1.10.4 "):

Despite the ongoing 'disdainfest', Krungle does seem to make a valid enough point in his own way: the population does irregularly shift depending on realm, exact time-of-day, particular day-of-week & current ingame situational circumstances as well. There is therefore no possible reliably appropriate way at all to schedule or announce a 'relic-unavailability-time' ahead of time. Do we have to cap a fort, wait 30 min only to find out we're in a bad time slot atm?

This new add-on + the new gate-must-be-capped rule are just 2 more vault-hurdles-&-hoops invaders must somehow leap over or thru to pull off an invasion. Idk, it might actually work well on overcrowded flagship RA, but depending on exactly how each is implimented, either/both can potentially severely curtail or even kill war & invasions on Haven I predict.

Even before this update, we already only have successful invasions if one realm is zergy & the others are low-pop., so both these changes will make it just that much harder. Thus, invasions may become far less likely to ever occur & if they do occur, far less likely to actually succeed. 1st relics, now this. Does NGD want invasions to succeed only once every other blue moon on Haven, Nemon & Valhalla? If so, why?!...

By far, the most problematic change in this patch is making relics NON-capturable (at ANY time). As is, only time ANY invasion is ever successful on Haven is when one or more realms is low-population. NGD's relic-scheme has already reduced invasions to being only possible by the current zerg realm here. If even more hurdles, twists, turns, blockages, etc. are put in the invader-runner's path, there will likely be NO successful invasions at all on Haven without gimmickry: [realm will take & place 1st 2 relics during 'allowed' hours, then hold last relic, trading back & forth as long as it takes, until population mix is condusive to a successful invasion, then finally place it & invade in the 'off'-hours ... all-a-bunch-of-SLBSTM (sounds like bull shit to me), but tbph I'd prefer KISS (keep it simple stupid) & go back to no relics at all, no flag at gate, & moreover: can invade & break gate at ANY time, no pre-requisites; capped forts would merely increase/decrease the gate's open-time, & one's own gate would become one of the wm-def-tele options, etc.].

Bois replied:

Personally, I would prefer that there were no invasions at all and everything war is located and driven in the warzone. There is more than enough space out there to do wonderful things. If not, there is always the oceans that can be raised to dry land.

This update is not a perfect fit for Haven but at least it is some kind of start to acknowledge that there are issues that need to be addressed especially with Invasions.

So I said:

Bois is right (as usual): keeping invasions 100% in the WZ & away from those levelers in inner who don't want to be ganked & driven off the server (& sometimes out of the game entirely) during/after invasions could really work for me too, but how should it be configured & implimented exactly? Opinions?

So, does anyone actually have any valid, helpful ones? It could be that perhaps, somehow, NDG might just possibly listen ... maybe ....

[Zas_]

Originally Posted by starshine

+1 ... And you hear people say: "why take that fort, it has no relic?" , "why go to alsius, if we have syrtis relic?" - For fun, no?

So.. locking the relic, is just doing what it was in the past.. You fight for fun, you take the forts for fun, you war for fun.. and you stop thinking about invasion...

I don't see it so negative as you guys see, but opinons are opinions

The thing is NGD is creating new rules that lead to such player's behavior, we made zillions of propositions since years to improve warzone and gameplay fun and as usual they ended to introduce more and more "features" that destroy the core of the game.

I personnally gave up with NGD, the game is dying slowly, they are perfectly unable to see why and how, and totally unable to maintain their own code, developement is far too slow (yes... small team + bad tools) for RO/COR (why did they change name... another useless move) to survive long enough.

Lag spikes occur so often nowadays that players even stop to report them, stupid Haloween event is back as it is population based it is great fun on Haven where population balance is almost never good (NGD didn't come on any good solution for this major issue in years).

The last update with dragons caves ... is just pitiful, as it doesn't address any of serious issues the game has, and no roadmap, no bug tracking, no in-game bug reporting, ...

Among the issues that kill Haven slowly:
- population imbalance
- relic system (relic on mount, attacker doesn"t have to split among forts anymore as it was before)
- warlock/conjurer level 50 spells never scaled
- barbs uber damage + knights uber defence
- long range attacks with uber damage (marx + hunters with cb)
- lack of counter-measure spells
- stupid events
- unbalanced premium items (in fact only drops that are on par with premium boxes are boss's jewelry)
- clan banks were destroyed by stupid move -> clans are uber useless
- grinding is tedious (no fun in killing mobs + no fun in beeing ganked in warzone) yet mandatory
- bugs bugs bugs
- lag lag lag
- ngd's communication is still near zero
- lack of tools for players to organize events
- arenas are now useless to test setups
- no way to save/restore setups
- UI far behind anything i know


We (on Haven) even lost that great community we had, people are changing realms each day, invasions aren't fun, bosses aren't fun, fort wars are quite rare....
In last months i don't even remember one enjoyable/epic fight....
For those who didn't play few years ago, with old forts and epic fights we had (despite a lot of issues), i guess they can't understand what i mean, but many "old" players will know.

So, yes, if they can lock relics, invasion, bosses, and stupid events perhaps we can have the fun back... but imho this is too late.