War Results ranking now working!

[Topogigio_BR]

I miss a realm captured/loosed fortifications status, i think it would make the information more complete.
Maybe even gems taken/stolen status.

[BigManOnCampus]

Originally Posted by linearguild

Well, if individual kill/death ratio were a good measure of war efficiency, then I would agree with you--but it's not, especially when the best kill/death ratios can be achieved by ganking grinders or overwhelmingly zerging the enemy.

Measuring kill/death ratio by individual is harmful in the long run because it pushes people to act not for the best of their team but for the betterment of their personal score. As you yourself say, dysfunctional behavior already happens for the sake of RP charts, how much more if you add another individual score in the form of kill/death ratios?

The mere act of measuring this number in the official site will give it more importance in some player's eyes. That's why I would like NGD to be very careful what they officially measure, since it will definitely affect player behaviors whether they like it or not...

None of what you say here is not already true for RP counts. I fail to see what is so horrible about measuring a daily efficiency ranking as opposed to measuring and publicizing permanent RP numbers. What you are trying to say is that an efficiency ranking will make people use less teamwork and act even more anti-social. I find that argument to be exceedingly weak because RP counts already do this to a far greater degree.

An efficiency ranking would encourage players to kill in the safest manner possible. Outside of hunting grinders (which is already encouraged with RP counts that display both in-game and on a website ranking), the safest way to kill is by staying within a fort during a battle (already true of all war) and/or close to your allies so you can be assisted and healed. I thought the idea was to try to encourage teamwork. How would this suggestion not do that very thing?

[Gytha_Ogg]

Originally Posted by BigManOnCampus

... the safest way to kill is by staying within a fort during a battle (already true of all war) and/or close to your allies so you can be assisted and healed. I thought the idea was to try to encourage teamwork. How would this suggestion not do that very thing?

Sounds like every day on Horus. If you don't have the zerg you have to do that to stay alive, if you have the zerg, you just farm.

The most fun fights for me is when Ignis has our fort or we have one of theirs, and very roughly even groups, we come outside, they come outside, and we all run around and fight and kill and get killed. When I see a level 4 fort with twice our numbers inside, I just want to walk away.

Also, assisted and healed? Why in the world would I heal you? I've got my own numbers to think of, I'm getting my warju on and blasting those suckers from the fort wall with my zarkit! Stand close, and you might be able to leech off the Greater Heal I lit up for Zarkie's benefit.

[BigManOnCampus]

Originally Posted by GythaOgg

Also, assisted and healed? Why in the world would I heal you? I've got my own numbers to think of, I'm getting my warju on and blasting those suckers from the fort wall with my zarkit! Stand close, and you might be able to leech off the Greater Heal I lit up for Zarkie's benefit.

Again, I sympathize with the conjus plight, but that is another element of game mechanics that does not give them proper due for the services they provide. Adding a statistical measurement would do more to expose those sorts of problems for future fixes than not.

[doppelapfel]

Originally Posted by Gallus

I miss a realm captured/loosed fortifications status, i think it would make the information more complete.
Maybe even gems taken/stolen status.

Maybe the first box on this site helps you. Its in german but the server, realm and fort names are the same.

[Gytha_Ogg]

Originally Posted by BigManOnCampus

Again, I sympathize with the conjus plight, but that is another element of game mechanics that does not give them proper due for the services they provide. Adding a statistical measurement would do more to expose those sorts of problems for future fixes than not.

I'm not against measurement, I think there's a danger in anointing one particular number as 'the' number.

For instance, J. Random Ganker logs on, kills one low level grinder (4 rp) and logs off. His efficiency is infinity: (4 / 0)

Or J. Gytha Conjurer who buffs Klutu (from safely inside the fort) just before he goes out and kills somebody (Gytha gets 2 rp and has infinite efficiency).

Klutu goes on and kills 99 more guys before he gets killed: 100 efficiency. I'd rather have Klutu in battle next to me than those other two saps. (No offense to the acutal Sap! )

I wouldn't mind seeing all three numbers, but I think just the one may be misleading

JRG   |    4 |  0 |   ∞
Gytha |    2 |  0 |   ∞
Klutu | 1800 | 18 | 100

[BigManOnCampus]

Originally Posted by GythaOgg

I'm not against measurement, I think there's a danger in anointing one particular number as 'the' number.

For instance, J. Random Ganker logs on, kills one low level grinder (4 rp) and logs off. His efficiency is infinity: (4 / 0)

Or J. Gytha Conjurer who buffs Klutu (from safely inside the fort) just before he goes out and kills somebody (Gytha gets 2 rp and has infinite efficiency).

Klutu goes on and kills 99 more guys before he gets killed: 100 efficiency. I'd rather have Klutu in battle next to me than those other two saps. (No offense to the acutal Sap! )

I wouldn't mind seeing all three numbers, but I think just the one may be misleading

JRG   |    4 |  0 |   ∞
Gytha |    2 |  0 |   ∞
Klutu | 1800 | 18 | 100

RPs are misleading by themselves. We likely forget that because they've been around so long. I dont recall ever insinuating that this new statistic should be some "ultimate" statistic by which people are measured. I simply said it would be more useful than realm numbers. Would it work better for you people if it were not individual, but by clan?

[Gytha_Ogg]

Originally Posted by BigManOnCampus

I dont recall ever insinuating that this new statistic should be some "ultimate" statistic by which people are measured. I simply said it would be more useful than realm numbers.

I apparently read too much into the suggestion. I apologize.

Originally Posted by BigManOnCampus

Would it work better for you people if it were not individual, but by clan?

I don't mind it being on individuals, as long as the actual numbers are there too along with the efficiency rating, as they are now for the realm numbers.

[BigManOnCampus]

Originally Posted by GythaOgg

I apparently read too much into the suggestion. I apologize.

...

Originally Posted by BigManOnCampus

Realm kill/death ratio is helpful. HOWEVER, it is not as helpful as individual rankings in this manner....

...Likewise, there's an actual top-player pecking order that means something more than RPs, which are meaningless because hunters can always jump out of camo to kill the near-death player just before dying themselves just to pad their rp stats.

rereading myself, no apology is necessary.

I stand by what I wrote though. RP's are meaningless, and everyone who cares about fun knows this. A more useful number than RP (by far imho) would be how many kills to deaths you have. If the argument is that the behavior of players would be shifted further into the anti-social because of a new stat, then I argue that individual RP counts should then be removed from the game entirely as they do exactly the same thing.

Since I doubt many people will wholly agree with the idea that RP counts are a root cause of negative wz behavior (this game is about conflict, expect confrontation), I see no reason why a new stat that does better by including a negative stat in its own formula would sufficiently alter the culture of the game further.

Yes, war zone kills should be restructured to factor in support class help, this is well known by experienced players. More than that the RP counts demonstrate this perfectly. How many conjurers dominate those numbers? None. In fact, if you look at Horus numbers, you can find only 5 total conjus and knights combined in the top 30 in RP count. Knights technically have it worse than conjus if you just go by those numbers. That's 17% of a ranking that if equal between the classes would be closer to 33%, so we can see there's no doubt that support classes already get shafted when it comes to rp numbers.

I find this to be a distracting argument, however, as the call is for more information. If, hypothetically speaking Gytha, there was a way to rank full support conjurers by their deeds, and this ranking were published each day, and perhaps averaged over 30 days, how would that not encourage conjurers to try to rise up that ranking by keeping their realm mates alive? How would less information be preferable in this case? I find a ratio to be a far better measure of how well you helped your realm than an rp count.

[Dannboy]

1. Why isnt the Gladiator page working? It hasnt been working since Horus started >.>

2.
Eyfura - Syrtis -Alturian -Conjurer -50 -100.000.000 GOLD
....O.o