Changelog preliminary version - Page 5

bois · 05-25-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droc

You are setting these schedules based on what exactly? How often will this be looked at and adjusted? Will there just be no point to play during some hours of this predefined schedule? I would not have these concerns if it were an automatic system such as the gate guards (which you need to looked at as well because we run right by them)

They won't say and I don't think they should either. There are suggestions that NGD may use this feature with bias. It is possible however, I am not looking at this as if this is going to be activated from day 1. If they do I still would not complain.

If the realm that is severely depleted in certain hours gets a block what is the big issue? It is not like they have anyone one on to fight against and have fun fort wars do they? All will happen is that the realm gets over run, loses gems, -XP , whatever and wakes up next morning to that reality. Where is the fun in that? Rather, where is the challenge in invading such a realm?
If you want the noble , the gem block does not affect you. Simply make them vulnerable, use the boat and do your quest. End of story. If you need some to fulfil your daily adventures then you hunt inside a bit.

I like it. it puts a slowdown on the positive feedback loops. Players who stay up to odd hours to ninja the system will see no reason to do so now. The ones who are in their proper time zone can now entertain themselves with fort wars. A balance will begin to emerge. I think this will serve the server the best in the long run. At that time there will be no need for gem block as populations gaps gradually close.

VandaMan · 05-25-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

They won't say and I don't think they should either. There are suggestions that NGD may use this feature with bias. It is possible however, I am not looking at this as if this is going to be activated from day 1. If they do I still would not complain.

If they don't say, the bias question will never go away. I simply don't trust that some random NGD guy's judgement of when the gems should be locked will be fair, even if he tries to be as fair as possible. I'm not saying I think Chilko is going to go lock gems during Syrtis' peak hours, and unlock them during the same for Alsius because he like Alsius best. I just realize that everyone's view of what is fair is different, and so I think manually setting the locks is not the best solution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

If the realm that is severely depleted in certain hours gets a block what is the big issue? It is not like they have anyone one on to fight against and have fun fort wars do they? All will happen is that the realm gets over run, loses gems, -XP , whatever and wakes up next morning to that reality. Where is the fun in that? Rather, where is the challenge in invading such a realm?
If you want the noble , the gem block does not affect you. Simply make them vulnerable, use the boat and do your quest. End of story. If you need some to fulfil your daily adventures then you hunt inside a bit.

For me the issue is that the severely underpopulated realm may be severely overpopulated in other time zones, and by locking their gems in these hours you make them impossible to invade at all (I realize this is not the case on horus at the moment, but population distribution has been like this in the past, and could be in the future).

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

I like it. it puts a slowdown on the positive feedback loops. Players who stay up to odd hours to ninja the system will see no reason to do so now. The ones who are in their proper time zone can now entertain themselves with fort wars. A balance will begin to emerge. I think this will serve the server the best in the long run. At that time there will be no need for gem block as populations gaps gradually close.

Some may stay up to "ninja the system," but for those who actually play during the "ninja hours" because they can't play at other times (and I believe this is the case for many horus/ignis), locking the gems means they will never be able to participate in invasions.

tikinho · 05-25-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandaMan

Some may stay up to "ninja the system," but for those who actually play during the "ninja hours" because they can't play at other times (and I believe this is the case for many horus/ignis), locking the gems means they will never be able to participate in invasions.

Like 80% of the Syrtis that haven't been online during a time when Syrtis is being invaded.

bois · 05-25-2011, 09:25 PM

If they do say it will still not go away. Players will always question the validity of it. For me this is a reasonable stop gap measure in the short term.
To stop questions they need an automated system which will work it out on the fly using extended time data statistics. This would be the best method although still prone to error considering all the variables at play.

I really want to see how it would play out. At this time , the Ignis night crew seems to be the target of this feature. What happens to this time slot will determine just how bad or good this idea is.

Yes I agree that a wild fluctuation in population may be possible. Gem block is truly not a perfect solution for this. The reality is that gem block is a harsh, crude and imperfect solution. At the moment, I think the idea of it is necessary though. I would like (mentioned this elsewhere) that the information collected for these time slots be used for positive things as well. Provide time slot incentives for depleted realms and try to boost populations and negate the necessity of the block in the first place. A virtual "happy hour" if you like.

Invasions should be challenging. This may not be the best solution out there but at least NGD is trying things to address it.

I believe that this setup is an improvement over the last invasion mechanics as imperfect as it may be.

ieti · 05-25-2011, 09:28 PM

EU time players get a chance to invade very very rare, because we work, sleep, study when server is inactive. I have not been on invasion from months. The only chance to become WM is to do daily 2k coin quests. Nice huh...

Invasion in active hours is still practically impossible, so Van we will be even now. Even you are still in better position, because you still can invade and do nobles quest.

To participate in invasion we usually loose from our sleep to get up earlier in weekends, so we catch Ignis offguard. This will be impossible for us too now. Gem lock will hit us too.

I still do not see what you protest about.

Kralmoe · 05-25-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stooge1

Like 80% of the Syrtis that haven't been online during a time when Syrtis is being invaded.

+1
I never ever witness an Ignis invasion. Ignis should know how frustrating is to log in and see that you have been invaded again during the night and again and again. And as Stooge says this counts for 80% of Syrtis. So thats the main reason why so many ppl, included me, quit the game or left for Raven. So imo it could be a good thing what NGD is trying to do. Lets wait and see.

VandaMan · 05-25-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ieti

To participate in invasion we usually loose from our sleep to get up earlier in weekends, so we catch Ignis offguard. This will be impossible for us too now. Gem lock will hit us too.

I still do not see what you protest about.

How do you know it will hit you too? It's just set manually by the devs for whatever times they think it needs to be set. It's clear they think the time slot when the ignis night crew invades is a problem, but anything beyond that is just speculation. That is what my protest is about, not that I would like to be able to invade every night (hell I don't even play horus now because it's boring), but that for the system to be fair it needs to be automated and dynamic. Not just a manual lock down during hours determined arbitrarily.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

To stop questions they need an automated system which will work it out on the fly using extended time data statistics. This would be the best method although still prone to error considering all the variables at play.

This is what I want.

ieti · 05-25-2011, 10:08 PM

I think Ignis will get lock on times they are not populated too. Lets say from 7am - 12pm GMT i.e. times you sleep. I do not think they will implement one side barrier only. It will be not fair ofc. It can be easy decided who and when this lock can be put to, so it will be fair for all realms.

Automated system will be harder to make. Long run data have to be collected. About player count, levels, classes, WM's, even player performance. We can have 5 players lets say archers, but they will be shredded by 5 players - 2 barbs, 2 conjus, 1 lock. If one team have WM other not this turn the tides too. You can have two 5 player teams - same levels, pretty balanced, but if several players are more skilled, better geared they will win 80% of times.

VandaMan · 05-25-2011, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ieti

I think Ignis will get lock on times they are not populated too. Lets say from 7am - 12pm GMT i.e. times you sleep. I do not think they will implement one side barrier only. It will be not fair ofc. It can be easy decided who and when this lock can be put to, so it will be fair for all realms.

If gems are locked from 2am - 7am because of Syrtis and Alsius underpopulation and 7am - 12pm because of Ignis underpopulation, then the gems will be locked nearly half the day. If that's the way it's supposed to be then we may as well do away with gems altogether, and find a different purpose for invasions.

Llayne · 05-25-2011, 10:49 PM

I don't see why they don't just add the gem lock trigger onto deciding how many guards are put at the gate. When the automated system that is already in place determining how many guards will spawn at the gate gets triggered it could also decide if a gem lock is called for. I do not like the sound of a predetermined schedule at all. This is just asking for problems NGD...

05-25-2011, 09:28 PM	#45
ieti Count Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 1,374	EU time players get a chance to invade very very rare, because we work, sleep, study when server is inactive. I have not been on invasion from months. The only chance to become WM is to do daily 2k coin quests. Nice huh... Invasion in active hours is still practically impossible, so Van we will be even now. Even you are still in better position, because you still can invade and do nobles quest. To participate in invasion we usually loose from our sleep to get up earlier in weekends, so we catch Ignis offguard. This will be impossible for us too now. Gem lock will hit us too. I still do not see what you protest about. __________________ RA \| Ignis \| Lilla My \| Conjurer \| EVIL IGNIS ROCK Horus \| Syrtis \| ieti \| Conjurer \| INQUISITION \| LONG GONE

05-25-2011, 10:08 PM	#48
ieti Count Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Sofia, Bulgaria Posts: 1,374	I think Ignis will get lock on times they are not populated too. Lets say from 7am - 12pm GMT i.e. times you sleep. I do not think they will implement one side barrier only. It will be not fair ofc. It can be easy decided who and when this lock can be put to, so it will be fair for all realms. Automated system will be harder to make. Long run data have to be collected. About player count, levels, classes, WM's, even player performance. We can have 5 players lets say archers, but they will be shredded by 5 players - 2 barbs, 2 conjus, 1 lock. If one team have WM other not this turn the tides too. You can have two 5 player teams - same levels, pretty balanced, but if several players are more skilled, better geared they will win 80% of times. __________________ RA \| Ignis \| Lilla My \| Conjurer \| EVIL IGNIS ROCK Horus \| Syrtis \| ieti \| Conjurer \| INQUISITION \| LONG GONE

05-25-2011, 09:25 PM	#44
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	If they do say it will still not go away. Players will always question the validity of it. For me this is a reasonable stop gap measure in the short term. To stop questions they need an automated system which will work it out on the fly using extended time data statistics. This would be the best method although still prone to error considering all the variables at play. I really want to see how it would play out. At this time , the Ignis night crew seems to be the target of this feature. What happens to this time slot will determine just how bad or good this idea is. Yes I agree that a wild fluctuation in population may be possible. Gem block is truly not a perfect solution for this. The reality is that gem block is a harsh, crude and imperfect solution. At the moment, I think the idea of it is necessary though. I would like (mentioned this elsewhere) that the information collected for these time slots be used for positive things as well. Provide time slot incentives for depleted realms and try to boost populations and negate the necessity of the block in the first place. A virtual "happy hour" if you like. Invasions should be challenging. This may not be the best solution out there but at least NGD is trying things to address it. I believe that this setup is an improvement over the last invasion mechanics as imperfect as it may be.

05-25-2011, 10:49 PM	#50
Llayne Initiate Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 205	I don't see why they don't just add the gem lock trigger onto deciding how many guards are put at the gate. When the automated system that is already in place determining how many guards will spawn at the gate gets triggered it could also decide if a gem lock is called for. I do not like the sound of a predetermined schedule at all. This is just asking for problems NGD...