Why videos? The logic behind making gameplay videos

esp_tupac · 08-05-2011, 07:28 AM

This is a discussion regarding whether or not we should judge a player's personal skill based on videos he makes. Below is my response to a player who thinks alenox is not THE best marksman in RO and who thinks pvp videos can not provide the proof needed to justify the claim that alenox is THE best marks. I wanna hear ppl's opinions on this

Thank you.

My response:

Videos are the best representation of a player's personal skills because they are not biased, not subjective and simply pure facts. Alenox is able to record and publish his "best" gameplay moments because he's had these moments. You can only capture something that is already there. No marksman has made a video that surpass Alenox's in terms of personal skills being portrayed in it because there is no marksman that is more skilled than Alenox. Look at the views, ratings of alenox’s videos and the subscribers. He is the best marksman in RO and the facts are undeniable.

if you think you are better than alenox/his marksman, or if you think you are the best of your class, why not make a video of yourself to prove it? Editing and uploading is easy. Only the content of the video is tricky cuz it is directly associated with how good you really are as a player.

If you got the skillz, videos will capture them. if you got the skillz, you don't have to worry about not getting epic fights! besides,we don’t care if the fights are epic or not. Because what people are really looking for in a “pvpish” gameplay video are how the player switch spell bars, his reaction time under different circumstances, his hand reflexes, his eye-hand coordination in intense combat, his spell choices in live time as it happens, his strategies, the way he strafes/turns/moves, the way he execute each spell, his setup etc, all of which contribute a player's combat efficiency and thus his personal skill.

Videos are the ultimate medium in showcasing a player’s true skill because it shows the actual user interface that is able to tell you everything you need to know about that player. Also, keep in mind that these fights we see on alenox and gestern’s videos are not as easy as they look. Thousands of hours of combat experience are needed to get an in-depth understanding of the class you play before you can even start developing a setup that fit your own play style. Mudpidz/alenox and Gestern both have more than 3 years of gameplay experience in RO and what you see on their videos are the results of years of research and development. We don’t see any better videos than alenox and gestern because ppl have not got personal skills required to make them, not because ppl don’t want to make them. Those are just excuses. As I was saying, capturing and editing a vid is easy, question is have you got the personal skills and confidence to make a pvpish vid.

Imo making a gameplay vid of yourself would be the final stage in becoming the best of your class. All great players would eventually make themselves known through videos because they have something to show and ofc it is the most accurate way to determine who is more skilled than the other. I mean, by comparing videos of 2 players of the same class, you can tell right off the bat who ‘s more skilled than the other right? I can tell if a player is good or not in the first 10 sec of a video. or say, if a warlock has combat mode toggled on when he’s walking he is a noob. All those small details would tell !

-Drv- · 08-05-2011, 09:56 AM

Could you link please the post you are referring to? Just to see where those critics come from, maybe he's just a troll or an envious player.
Alenox is a top player regardless the class he's using, even though i prefer him with his archers. He has an extremely high technique and an excellent knowledge of the game.
But his also aware of this and he doesn't miss a chance to remark it so, during the last time, he managed to attract any kind of troll in this forum.

About your response:
Not every player is intrested in recording his game sessions, there are no videos of arguello, fakuu, jdm, lucky, ect... and probably on horus no one has ever heard their names but they are top players too.
If a player want to prove to be the best is quite simple, he has just to be the best in game, not on youtube.

Even though i'm often happy to see them you are giving to much importance to the videos despite to the ingame action and a post like this in the spanish forum would have created an incredible flame war.
Creating a post like this delegitimizes the true skill of Alenox because the fanatic tone affect the credibility, it seems that you are a fan more that an impartial viewer and this makes the obvious (Alenox top player skill) seems suspicious.*

There is also an alternative way to discover who's the best but it's extremely dangerous

*i hope that is clear the meaning of these words because they may seem a personal attack while they are not.

Raindance · 08-05-2011, 11:10 AM

So this is what a heph rage looks like...

Wield_II · 08-05-2011, 02:45 PM

u mad?

----

esp_tupac · 08-05-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Drv-

Could you link please the post you are referring to? Just to see where those critics come from, maybe he's just a troll or an envious player.
http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Kris/hate.png
*i hope that is clear the meaning of these words because they may seem a personal attack while they are not.

http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...t=79553&page=2
here is the link to the post i was referring to

-Drv- · 08-05-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shining-Scias

Just because he's able to record and publish his best gameplay moments ?
I'm not saying he isn't good but that's too easy to say someone is the best just according to a few chosen and mostly PvPish extracts and without considering all the non-recording players from all the servers.
On topic : Nice vid ! I would love to see a single horus marks like you attempting to try something else than max range autoshoot.

That's not the case of a troll or an envious player as i supposed, also his comment is not against Alenox but against your assumption that videos are the only way to judge a player.
I still don't understad your reaction to his comment.

UmarilsStillHere · 08-05-2011, 05:34 PM

Scias makes a fair point, almost anyone can make themselves look like a very good player in videos, we've all had fights where we've come out with a win against heavy odds, and showing those fights alone is not a true representation of ability.

For every 1 fight you win against the odds, you may have lost 2, you just don't show those in your video

As it happens, Alenox IS a very good player. And that does come through in his videos, but a narrow slice of fights chosen by the recorder are obviously not a true representation of their performance in game. Simply because no ones going to put that time they got ganked by a hunter 10 levels below them in their shiny pvp video.

Tigerious · 08-05-2011, 06:44 PM

Let's add that on this video it seems they are 4-5 lvl 60 against almost all easy targets (I noticed only one as "normal")

-Kalid- · 08-05-2011, 07:55 PM

Many people think they are pro, but no, especially marksmens.. they suck when you see them play without videos, like i see alenox online sometimes and he sucks terribly, i think he is lucky in those videos, and other marksmen have good drops and bow (even dragon ammy) which makes them pro, I have to say videos suck, if you want to show your talent, do it without those stupid edit videos, where you can put your best moments and remove the ones you suck in it.

For me there is no best player, it's just if you are lucky or not, once you see an enemy very smart and the other time you see him very stupid, Don't judge players from their videos, it's just fake, I killed 5 vs 1 but i was very lucky though, and sometimes i die when we are 2 vs 1, who knows, it's how lucky you are.

ArienN · 08-05-2011, 09:04 PM

well,if he is THE best marks,can you explain me the 2 HUGE mistakes i found while first time i watched the "9vs1" video:

1. 14:28: he casted winterstoke at the knight to stop/dismount him,ok,but then,after freeze ended he instant casts BoW. Every "experienced" player know,that u get knocked after dismount + dizzy effect doesnt work while knocked!!!

2. 14:52: After the knock on the knight ended,the knight used precise block,which he tried to hide by turning around. Every "experienced" player know: thats your chance to get some range,since he cant move while that spell and he blocks EVERYTHING. But your BEST marks casts winterstroke??

In addition: he fights (almost) only vs melee (most way lower lvl and obvious noobs) and most time only 1by1,so you can never talk about a "9vs1".

He is a really good marks, he has alot of skill and you really rare see such marks, but THE best marks should master such small things aswell,dont you think so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Drv-

That's not the case of a troll or an envious player as i supposed, also his comment is not against Alenox but against your assumption that videos are the only way to judge a player.
I still don't understad your reaction to his comment.

+1 and..
I guess Alenox is his friend and he just want protect him. He want to tell it the rest of the world,since he wont accept the truth, that there MIGHT be a better marks somewhere in our whole regnum history.

08-05-2011, 07:28 AM	#1
esp_tupac Initiate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: country that invents hockey Posts: 223	Why videos? The logic behind making gameplay videos This is a discussion regarding whether or not we should judge a player's personal skill based on videos he makes. Below is my response to a player who thinks alenox is not THE best marksman in RO and who thinks pvp videos can not provide the proof needed to justify the claim that alenox is THE best marks. I wanna hear ppl's opinions on this Thank you. My response: Videos are the best representation of a player's personal skills because they are not biased, not subjective and simply pure facts. Alenox is able to record and publish his "best" gameplay moments because he's had these moments. You can only capture something that is already there. No marksman has made a video that surpass Alenox's in terms of personal skills being portrayed in it because there is no marksman that is more skilled than Alenox. Look at the views, ratings of alenox’s videos and the subscribers. He is the best marksman in RO and the facts are undeniable. if you think you are better than alenox/his marksman, or if you think you are the best of your class, why not make a video of yourself to prove it? Editing and uploading is easy. Only the content of the video is tricky cuz it is directly associated with how good you really are as a player. If you got the skillz, videos will capture them. if you got the skillz, you don't have to worry about not getting epic fights! besides,we don’t care if the fights are epic or not. Because what people are really looking for in a “pvpish” gameplay video are how the player switch spell bars, his reaction time under different circumstances, his hand reflexes, his eye-hand coordination in intense combat, his spell choices in live time as it happens, his strategies, the way he strafes/turns/moves, the way he execute each spell, his setup etc, all of which contribute a player's combat efficiency and thus his personal skill. Videos are the ultimate medium in showcasing a player’s true skill because it shows the actual user interface that is able to tell you everything you need to know about that player. Also, keep in mind that these fights we see on alenox and gestern’s videos are not as easy as they look. Thousands of hours of combat experience are needed to get an in-depth understanding of the class you play before you can even start developing a setup that fit your own play style. Mudpidz/alenox and Gestern both have more than 3 years of gameplay experience in RO and what you see on their videos are the results of years of research and development. We don’t see any better videos than alenox and gestern because ppl have not got personal skills required to make them, not because ppl don’t want to make them. Those are just excuses. As I was saying, capturing and editing a vid is easy, question is have you got the personal skills and confidence to make a pvpish vid. Imo making a gameplay vid of yourself would be the final stage in becoming the best of your class. All great players would eventually make themselves known through videos because they have something to show and ofc it is the most accurate way to determine who is more skilled than the other. I mean, by comparing videos of 2 players of the same class, you can tell right off the bat who ‘s more skilled than the other right? I can tell if a player is good or not in the first 10 sec of a video. or say, if a warlock has combat mode toggled on when he’s walking he is a noob. All those small details would tell ! __________________ H G - Warlock - Alsius - Haven Youtube: www.youtube.com/ROHepha2011

08-05-2011, 09:56 AM	#2
-Drv- Apprentice Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: L'Aquila, Italy Posts: 77	Could you link please the post you are referring to? Just to see where those critics come from, maybe he's just a troll or an envious player. Alenox is a top player regardless the class he's using, even though i prefer him with his archers. He has an extremely high technique and an excellent knowledge of the game. But his also aware of this and he doesn't miss a chance to remark it so, during the last time, he managed to attract any kind of troll in this forum. About your response: Not every player is intrested in recording his game sessions, there are no videos of arguello, fakuu, jdm, lucky, ect... and probably on horus no one has ever heard their names but they are top players too. If a player want to prove to be the best is quite simple, he has just to be the best in game, not on youtube. Even though i'm often happy to see them you are giving to much importance to the videos despite to the ingame action and a post like this in the spanish forum would have created an incredible flame war. Creating a post like this delegitimizes the true skill of Alenox because the fanatic tone affect the credibility, it seems that you are a fan more that an impartial viewer and this makes the obvious (Alenox top player skill) seems suspicious.* There is also an alternative way to discover who's the best but it's extremely dangerous i hope that is clear the meaning of these words because they may seem a personal attack while they are not. __________________ drv* *Settantaddu'* Always remember \| Che cos'è il genio? Last edited by -Drv-; 08-05-2011 at 02:48 PM. Reason: typos and grammar my old enemies.

08-05-2011, 05:34 PM	#7
UmarilsStillHere Marquis Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: England Posts: 2,419	Scias makes a fair point, almost anyone can make themselves look like a very good player in videos, we've all had fights where we've come out with a win against heavy odds, and showing those fights alone is not a true representation of ability. For every 1 fight you win against the odds, you may have lost 2, you just don't show those in your video As it happens, Alenox IS a very good player. And that does come through in his videos, but a narrow slice of fights chosen by the recorder are obviously not a true representation of their performance in game. Simply because no ones going to put that time they got ganked by a hunter 10 levels below them in their shiny pvp video. __________________ Faith 50 Barb Faithless 50 Lock Umaril 45 Conju Kailas 45 Marks Pel 45 Knight I N Q U I S I T I O N

08-05-2011, 07:55 PM	#9
-Kalid- Initiate Join Date: May 2010 Location: Location: Posts: 126	Many people think they are pro, but no, especially marksmens.. they suck when you see them play without videos, like i see alenox online sometimes and he sucks terribly, i think he is lucky in those videos, and other marksmen have good drops and bow (even dragon ammy) which makes them pro, I have to say videos suck, if you want to show your talent, do it without those stupid edit videos, where you can put your best moments and remove the ones you suck in it. For me there is no best player, it's just if you are lucky or not, once you see an enemy very smart and the other time you see him very stupid, Don't judge players from their videos, it's just fake, I killed 5 vs 1 but i was very lucky though, and sometimes i die when we are 2 vs 1, who knows, it's how lucky you are. __________________ Kalid ~ Warmaster Hunter ~ http://www.youtube.com/user/kalid070?feature=mhee

08-05-2011, 11:10 AM	#3
Raindance Initiate Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 234	So this is what a heph rage looks like...

08-05-2011, 02:45 PM	#4
Wield_II Master Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paradise Posts: 306	u mad? ----

08-05-2011, 06:44 PM	#8
Tigerious Banned Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: France Posts: 496	Let's add that on this video it seems they are 4-5 lvl 60 against almost all easy targets (I noticed only one as "normal")