Why videos? The logic behind making gameplay videos - Page 2

AariEv · 08-05-2011, 09:09 PM

First of all, everyone has their own opinion about anything and everything. Just because a player makes a pretty good video and you're now his new fanboy doesn't mean he's the best, nor does it mean you can declare your opinion to be fact. I'm sure you haven't examined every marksman that plays the game to the extent where you can establish this player to be The King of Marksman, and even if you did, once again, this is your opinion. Who are you to judge who's the best?

Second, videos are not the best representation of a players skills. Their only best representation is their time in game. Also, these kinds of videos ARE obviously biased as you yourself acknowledged that he's showing his BEST gameplay moments (in a very limited amount of time, I might add)......well what about his other moments? Many players in this game have had moments where everything is going right in game and they're at their best, yet they didn't record, so you can't use the argument that "he's had these moments" to justify why this video does in fact make him the best marksman.

In any case, I agree with Drv in that I have no idea why you're reacting that way to Scias' comment. If you want to say that in you opinion, he's the best, sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Better yet, why don't you add him to a post in your own personal "inter-realm dream team" that can be found here: http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/sh...95#post1390495

Kind Regards

esp_tupac · 08-06-2011, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarisewan

videos are not the best representation of a players skills. Their only best representation is their time in game. Also, these kinds of videos ARE obviously biased as you yourself acknowledged that he's showing his BEST gameplay moments (in a very limited amount of time, I might add)......well what about his other moments? Many players in this game have had moments where everything is going right in game and they're at their best, yet they didn't record, so you can't use the argument that "he's had these moments" to justify why this video does in fact make him the best marksman.

quote from umaril:
Scias makes a fair point, almost anyone can make themselves look like a very good player in videos, we've all had fights where we've come out with a win against heavy odds, and showing those fights alone is not a true representation of ability.

For every 1 fight you win against the odds, you may have lost 2, you just don't show those in your video

As it happens, Alenox IS a very good player. And that does come through in his videos, but a narrow slice of fights chosen by the recorder are obviously not a true representation of their performance in game. Simply because no ones going to put that time they got ganked by a hunter 10 levels below them in their shiny pvp video

there are moments where everything is going right in a fight and you are able to win against heavy odds and yet you didn't record them. Every player has his best and worst moments and what we see on videos are almost always the best moments. I totally agree with you on that. everybody loses at some point and everybody makes mistakes. I believe alenox is the best marksman not because he is able to capture his best moments but because of his incredible hand techniques to execute spells and switch spell bars. a player can lose a fight due to resist or bad luck and all the other kinds of uncontrolable variables in the warzone but losing/winning a single fight doesn't mean the player is good or bad and so showing only the good moments on a video doesn't prove anything does it because he also loses and he never shows the losing side of him. I understand that.

However, as I have mentioned before over and over again, my judgement of personal skill of a player are based on the hand techniques of the player shown in videos and how the player handles his user interface throughout a fight because the keyboarding techniques are a major determant of your combat efficiency. most ppl fail to see these keyboarding techniques portrayed in alenox's video or fail to understand the sophistication and significance of it. That's because they have not reached a certain skill lvl/depth to appreciate them. what most ppl see is some guy posting his best gameplay moments on youtube and showing off the best side of him. Well, I have spent years researching the most efficient way to execute a spell and switch between function bars on a warlock and I can tell you with confidence and experience that alenox's hand techniques used in casting spells is by far the most combat efficient of all. That's why i think he is the best. pity you guys didn't see the ingenuity and beauty of alenox's casting

for those of you who have no idea what im talking about, time will tell.

NotScias · 08-06-2011, 05:52 AM

I do not understand this overreaction about what I have said.

Althrought others already said what had to be said about it, I will add my two cents as I'm supposed to be concerned.

I have never meant nor said that Alenox is not a good player but the only thing I can say about his videos is "Damn he can be good at hunting against the odds". However saying/admitting that he (or any other player) is THE BEST of RO just because of his videos is is all but impartial because :
- A tiny proportion of players record and publish videos
- The videos only show the winning moments
- The videos mostly concern PvPish battles
And unless you're omniscient, you have no idea of what's happenning in the other servers such as muspell, nemon, etc... I guess you've just seen how is Horus with your personal experience, how is Ra with a few videos from random people of Ra, and decreted "ah this one is the best of RO !!" without considering the above points. Sadly this is nothing more than blind fanboyism.
How the hell can you compare one/a few people who record their gameplay vs the rest of the non-recording players of the game (=95%?) ? Nonsense, purely.

Making videos is not a requirement to be the "best" of your class/server/game. Do you have to expose and claim yourself among the RO community to be considered as good ? What if Alenox didn't record ? He wouldn't be good ?
As far as I know you have to be good ingame, not at video recording/uploading and self proclamation. There's a freakload of silent players, that don't even have a forum account, and yet are awesome foes ingame.

And to respond to the PvP vs RvR thing on the other topic (almost identical post anyways) : Being excellent in PvP doesn't inevitably make you an excellent foe in RvR, and I'll try to explain why.
In PvP you expect that your chain of spells and tactics won't be disturbed/dispelled as there won't be any people to help the victim(s), and even in 1v3, 1v4 scenarios, you can keep everyone in control, and especially as a marksman with the bazillion tools and available range, so there is not really unexpected events, besides the sempiternal resists. You only have to watch a few targets.
In RvR, you cannot keep everyone in control, not even keep an eye on every enemy, your usually working PvP tactics will almost always be disturbed by dispels, heals, and unexpected attacks (+ resists aswell) from everywhere and you have to be prepared for this because if you act like if everything was under control, you'd not last long in the battlefield. You also have to work in team with your realm mates, and that's not simple neither as you can't predict how your allies will act nor who they are going to target. You have to handle a lot of targets and fail to.

So yes, being good in PvP requires a lot of skill and training indeed, but saying that RvR requires nothing more is a flawed assumption as it requires to completely change your strategy and even your setups. It's like saying being good at grinding makes you good in PvP.
Not saying it requires more or less skill, it requires a different skill : working/fighting with/against a lot of people, expect the unexpected.... And the same applies to excellent RvR fighters which doesn't mean they will be excellent in PvP.
And because I might learn you something new : in RvR you also have to switch spell bars, carefully build effective setups, have reflexes and sense of timing, strafe et caetera...
Each side requires training and experience.

<personal attack>Somehow I'm not surprised to read this for someone who completely skips the RvR aspect of the game, and the few times I have seen you in RvR you weren't a big of impact in the battle. I could name a dozen of more effective Ignis locks in RvR.
And I have yet to see your amazing innate RvR skillz on your youtube channel.</personal attack>

To conclude, no offense Alenox, I like your videos, you can show that you're an amazing player in PvPish/hunting situations but that, and I'm sure you know why and don't care anyways, doesn't make you the best of RO...

Anyways such question can't be answered at all....

_Enio_ · 08-06-2011, 06:10 AM

Sorry but i have to add some stuff here.

"However, as I have mentioned before over and over again, my judgement of personal skill of a player are based on the hand techniques of the player"

Thats just stupid, sorry. If you dont manage to cast an skill you need to in a matter of 0.1s you just fail there and have to improve. You scale down skill on such a simple crap, its almost not bearable. Skill is when you manage to LoS 2 people while killing the 3rd, without people who watch your movie realize it at all. Just to hint you on what i connect skills towards. Any skill and cooldown you know by heart, no. you dont know it, you feel it. You cancel BoW and hit SotW on UM reacitively, you know the cattime of BoW with CS gear?, fucking ridiculous. You Switch targets 3times a second, ofc noone notices, noone realizes the beauty of your combinations because Its hidden in the mess, all they see is the enemy fail with their timings. If prople knew what would be the next ideal move theyd say you cheat sice you start the counter-cast before they even start casting, always ready to cance the cast if they decide to not do their optimal move..
Seriously, not intended to talk and skill or whatever down, but your definition of skill just makes me chuckle there.. Mechanics? THats a base, not an indicator of skill.

-Kalid- · 08-06-2011, 07:07 AM

Playing RO for 4 years, i haven't seen good marks than Emin, Drv, Ludovik, Lucky, Lubaya, Rokotuiwai Dumaru(Tui), Lester, Benjamin Sisko, Lalola, Nahuel I, Katrino and some others.

These players i mentioned above (inculding some others) use skills and they are very smart, they always use the right spell for the right moment, and no casting any bullshit like our friend alenox freezes a knight while he is on a mount then casts BoW (rofl).

Those players above i call them marksmen.

esp_tupac · 08-06-2011, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Enio_

Sorry but i have to add some stuff here.

"However, as I have mentioned before over and over again, my judgement of personal skill of a player are based on the hand techniques of the player"

Thats just stupid, sorry. If you dont manage to cast an skill you need to in a matter of 0.1s you just fail there and have to improve. You scale down skill on such a simple crap, its almost not bearable. Skill is when you manage to LoS 2 people while killing the 3rd, without people who watch your movie realize it at all. Just to hint you on what i connect skills towards. Any skill and cooldown you know by heart, no. you dont know it, you feel it. You cancel BoW and hit SotW on UM reacitively, you know the cattime of BoW with CS gear?, fucking ridiculous. You Switch targets 3times a second, ofc noone notices, noone realizes the beauty of your combinations because Its hidden in the mess, all they see is the enemy fail with their timings. If prople knew what would be the next ideal move theyd say you cheat sice you start the counter-cast before they even start casting, always ready to cance the cast if they decide to not do their optimal move..
Seriously, not intended to talk and skill or whatever down, but your definition of skill just makes me chuckle there.. Mechanics? THats a base, not an indicator of skill.

mechanics are one of the fundamentals you would look first in a player. what i meant in my previously posts is that keyboarding techniques would be among the first things to look for in a player/video that an individual makes. if you havent got that figured out first you can't be good at your class at all (debatable?). and ofc mechanics was not to be the whole definition of personal skill cus I assumed in earlier posts that a good player knows how to feel and time his spells and knows what spells to pick given a specific circumstance. anyways i think there was a misunderstanding there enio. overall i see everyone here has posted something insightful and you all have a point there. well if anyone else has something to say regarding this "video controversy" id love to hear more

PS: thx scias for the heads up on the whole PvP/RvR issue. peronsally as a warlock I havent done much RvR in the warzone and i have to admit that i have not be able to make a big impact in RvR at all because u know my warlock setup is pvp oriented XD maybe im just too lazy to do another setup that emphasizes more on RvR...anyways keep the good stuff coming i wanna hear them. thx again

Torcida · 08-06-2011, 10:27 AM

To make something that would be a very very very long comment short Hephaestus is right,who disagrees on this is wrong. Topic closed you can't really argue on this.

TheMessenger · 08-06-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Kalid-

Playing RO for 4 years, i haven't seen good marks than...Lubaya,

fuck no
she sucks.

(this was before the WM update and some other nerfs/updates)
When I use to play RA regularly I would always go to pp2 for action. She would always be there as well. I was a lvl 45 barb she was lvl 50. All she did was stand at the other side of the bridge at max range, spam spells and anytime someone got in ~30rng she would cast WS/Ambush and run away to get back to her max range and spam spells. How can you consider that being a good marks? T

he others, maybe. I have only seen tui, emin, and ludovik play and yes, they are good.

-Kalid- · 08-06-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMessenger

fuck no
she sucks.

(this was before the WM update and some other nerfs/updates)
When I use to play RA regularly I would always go to pp2 for action. She would always be there as well. I was a lvl 45 barb she was lvl 50. All she did was stand at the other side of the bridge at max range, spam spells and anytime someone got in ~30rng she would cast WS/Ambush and run away to get back to her max range and spam spells. How can you consider that being a good marks? T

he others, maybe. I have only seen tui, emin, and ludovik play and yes, they are good.

Calm down dude, maybe he didn't how to play before, but he is great now, you should try killing him, plus he is better in RvR than in PvP.

Alenox_I · 08-06-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Kalid-

Playing RO for 4 years, i haven't seen good marks than Emin, Drv, Ludovik, Lucky, Lubaya, Rokotuiwai Dumaru(Tui), Lester, Benjamin Sisko, Lalola, Nahuel I, Katrino and some others.

These players i mentioned above (inculding some others) use skills and they are very smart, they always use the right spell for the right moment, and no casting any bullshit like our friend alenox freezes a knight while he is on a mount then casts BoW (rofl).

Those players above i call them marksmen.

I actually forgot in the vid that he was gonna get knocked after the WS just saying and btw Emin, Drv, Lucky, Ludo and Nahuel are the ones that I consider the good marks from you list.

I forgot, it was only one mistake.. you think no one makes mistakes?

08-05-2011, 09:09 PM	#11
AariEv Initiate Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: United States Posts: 144	First of all, everyone has their own opinion about anything and everything. Just because a player makes a pretty good video and you're now his new fanboy doesn't mean he's the best, nor does it mean you can declare your opinion to be fact. I'm sure you haven't examined every marksman that plays the game to the extent where you can establish this player to be The King of Marksman, and even if you did, once again, this is your opinion. Who are you to judge who's the best? Second, videos are not the best representation of a players skills. Their only best representation is their time in game. Also, these kinds of videos ARE obviously biased as you yourself acknowledged that he's showing his BEST gameplay moments (in a very limited amount of time, I might add)......well what about his other moments? Many players in this game have had moments where everything is going right in game and they're at their best, yet they didn't record, so you can't use the argument that "he's had these moments" to justify why this video does in fact make him the best marksman. In any case, I agree with Drv in that I have no idea why you're reacting that way to Scias' comment. If you want to say that in you opinion, he's the best, sure and there's nothing wrong with it. Better yet, why don't you add him to a post in your own personal "inter-realm dream team" that can be found here: http://regnumonlinegame.com/forum/sh...95#post1390495 Kind Regards __________________ Aari - Aaris'lia - Aasiora ~ I N Q U I S I T I O N ~ Last edited by Aarisewan; 08-05-2011 at 09:24 PM.

08-06-2011, 05:52 AM	#13
NotScias Baron Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: /dev/null Posts: 766	I do not understand this overreaction about what I have said. Althrought others already said what had to be said about it, I will add my two cents as I'm supposed to be concerned. I have never meant nor said that Alenox is not a good player but the only thing I can say about his videos is "Damn he can be good at hunting against the odds". However saying/admitting that he (or any other player) is THE BEST of RO just because of his videos is is all but impartial because : - A tiny proportion of players record and publish videos - The videos only show the winning moments - The videos mostly concern PvPish battles And unless you're omniscient, you have no idea of what's happenning in the other servers such as muspell, nemon, etc... I guess you've just seen how is Horus with your personal experience, how is Ra with a few videos from random people of Ra, and decreted "ah this one is the best of RO !!" without considering the above points. Sadly this is nothing more than blind fanboyism. How the hell can you compare one/a few people who record their gameplay vs the rest of the non-recording players of the game (=95%?) ? Nonsense, purely. Making videos is not a requirement to be the "best" of your class/server/game. Do you have to expose and claim yourself among the RO community to be considered as good ? What if Alenox didn't record ? He wouldn't be good ? As far as I know you have to be good ingame, not at video recording/uploading and self proclamation. There's a freakload of silent players, that don't even have a forum account, and yet are awesome foes ingame. And to respond to the PvP vs RvR thing on the other topic (almost identical post anyways) : Being excellent in PvP doesn't inevitably make you an excellent foe in RvR, and I'll try to explain why. In PvP you expect that your chain of spells and tactics won't be disturbed/dispelled as there won't be any people to help the victim(s), and even in 1v3, 1v4 scenarios, you can keep everyone in control, and especially as a marksman with the bazillion tools and available range, so there is not really unexpected events, besides the sempiternal resists. You only have to watch a few targets. In RvR, you cannot keep everyone in control, not even keep an eye on every enemy, your usually working PvP tactics will almost always be disturbed by dispels, heals, and unexpected attacks (+ resists aswell) from everywhere and you have to be prepared for this because if you act like if everything was under control, you'd not last long in the battlefield. You also have to work in team with your realm mates, and that's not simple neither as you can't predict how your allies will act nor who they are going to target. You have to handle a lot of targets and fail to. So yes, being good in PvP requires a lot of skill and training indeed, but saying that RvR requires nothing more is a flawed assumption as it requires to completely change your strategy and even your setups. It's like saying being good at grinding makes you good in PvP. Not saying it requires more or less skill, it requires a different skill : working/fighting with/against a lot of people, expect the unexpected.... And the same applies to excellent RvR fighters which doesn't mean they will be excellent in PvP. And because I might learn you something new : in RvR you also have to switch spell bars, carefully build effective setups, have reflexes and sense of timing, strafe et caetera... Each side requires training and experience. <personal attack>Somehow I'm not surprised to read this for someone who completely skips the RvR aspect of the game, and the few times I have seen you in RvR you weren't a big of impact in the battle. I could name a dozen of more effective Ignis locks in RvR. And I have yet to see your amazing innate RvR skillz on your youtube channel.</personal attack> To conclude, no offense Alenox, I like your videos, you can show that you're an amazing player in PvPish/hunting situations but that, and I'm sure you know why and don't care anyways, doesn't make you the best of RO... Anyways such question can't be answered at all.... __________________ 天 The other realm awaits... Now playing much better games Last edited by Shining-Scias; 08-06-2011 at 06:02 AM.

08-06-2011, 06:10 AM	#14
_Enio_ Marquis Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany Posts: 1,843	Sorry but i have to add some stuff here. "However, as I have mentioned before over and over again, my judgement of personal skill of a player are based on the hand techniques of the player" Thats just stupid, sorry. If you dont manage to cast an skill you need to in a matter of 0.1s you just fail there and have to improve. You scale down skill on such a simple crap, its almost not bearable. Skill is when you manage to LoS 2 people while killing the 3rd, without people who watch your movie realize it at all. Just to hint you on what i connect skills towards. Any skill and cooldown you know by heart, no. you dont know it, you feel it. You cancel BoW and hit SotW on UM reacitively, you know the cattime of BoW with CS gear?, fucking ridiculous. You Switch targets 3times a second, ofc noone notices, noone realizes the beauty of your combinations because Its hidden in the mess, all they see is the enemy fail with their timings. If prople knew what would be the next ideal move theyd say you cheat sice you start the counter-cast before they even start casting, always ready to cance the cast if they decide to not do their optimal move.. Seriously, not intended to talk and skill or whatever down, but your definition of skill just makes me chuckle there.. Mechanics? THats a base, not an indicator of skill. __________________ Fix the Marksman subclass: Suggestion

08-06-2011, 07:07 AM	#15
-Kalid- Initiate Join Date: May 2010 Location: Location: Posts: 126	Playing RO for 4 years, i haven't seen good marks than Emin, Drv, Ludovik, Lucky, Lubaya, Rokotuiwai Dumaru(Tui), Lester, Benjamin Sisko, Lalola, Nahuel I, Katrino and some others. These players i mentioned above (inculding some others) use skills and they are very smart, they always use the right spell for the right moment, and no casting any bullshit like our friend alenox freezes a knight while he is on a mount then casts BoW (rofl). Those players above i call them marksmen. __________________ Kalid ~ Warmaster Hunter ~ http://www.youtube.com/user/kalid070?feature=mhee

08-06-2011, 10:27 AM	#17
Torcida Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 342	To make something that would be a very very very long comment short Hephaestus is right,who disagrees on this is wrong. Topic closed you can't really argue on this.