Balance Update - Stage 2 - Implementation

[ieti]

Agree to scias - best debuff in hands of best damage dealer. Knights need it to do some decent damage and to be a threat. I always thinked of them as tanks, meant to annoy, slow down, keep in place key enemies. They was like this when i started around 2 years ago. They was feared for that.

Barb is an universal killer. It just needs to get near you and it is game over. If knights and barbs need to work together it will be way funnier. Knight to slow down, debuff, protect with auras. Barb to do burst damage in right moment.

Right now this both functions are done only from barbs. Which is erm a little hard for poor mages in RvR.

[tjanex]

Originally Posted by ieti

Agree to scias - best debuff in hands of best damage dealer. Knights need it to do some decent damage and to be a threat. I always thinked of them as tanks, meant to annoy, slow down, keep in place key enemies. They was like this when i started around 2 years ago. They was feared for that.

Barb is an universal killer. It just needs to get near you and it is game over. If knights and barbs need to work together it will be way funnier. Knight to slow down, debuff, protect with auras. Barb to do burst damage in right moment.

Right now this both functions are done only from barbs. Which is erm a little hard for poor mages in RvR.

I fully agree, Barbs are fast and strong, this combination makes it hard for Archers but even harder for Mages which dont have speed buffs, though they have Mind Push and (Locks) have Slow, but that only helps if the barb doesn't have UM.

[NSer]

Originally Posted by Shining-Scias

Evendim's one is non-damaging at least

Well at least his debuff have area 10 and side positive effect.... I WANT IT ON MY LOCK

[Awrath]

The problem NGD have with balance comes down to one thing, shared trees. They can never really balance the 3 classes and the 6 subclasses while trees are shared. One skill on a shared tree maybe OP for one subclass while perfectly reasonable for another. For example, MS which seems to be the topic of discussion at the moment, powerful in the hands of a barb, acceptable in the hands of a knight, as he will not then kill you with 2 hits. This of course is a PvP situation, MS still sucks in RvR, and seems to have a chance greater than what's stated.

I understand that it's a hell of a lot of work to have unique trees per subclass, and it may change the game entirely, but I personally think that it's the only way balance can be really achieved otherwise balance will continue to be a struggle. Not only will the eradication of shared spells help with balance, it will add more dynamics to the game if it is done right.

As for all the whining now, it would be best to wait out and see what NGD have coming for the upcoming stages. For now these balance updates are in effect beta testing by us the players and the feedback and results will allow NGD to adjust further. I think this is the best implementation as you never really get a true representation of the effect of changes on amun.

It would be great to know from NGD how many stages they have planned and what they have planned for each, like a roadmap. (Though I suspect NGD do not have a set number of stages and will simply keep releasing until their idea of balance is achieved).

[Kellindil82]

Originally Posted by Awrath

The problem NGD have with balance comes down to one thing, shared trees. They can never really balance the 3 classes and the 6 subclasses while trees are shared. One skill on a shared tree maybe OP for one subclass while perfectly reasonable for another. For example, MS which seems to be the topic of discussion at the moment, powerful in the hands of a barb, acceptable in the hands of a knight, as he will not then kill you with 2 hits. This of course is a PvP situation, MS still sucks in RvR, and seems to have a chance greater than what's stated.

I understand that it's a hell of a lot of work to have unique trees per subclass, and it may change the game entirely, but I personally think that it's the only way balance can be really achieved otherwise balance will continue to be a struggle. Not only will the eradication of shared spells help with balance, it will add more dynamics to the game if it is done right.

As for all the whining now, it would be best to wait out and see what NGD have coming for the upcoming stages. For now these balance updates are in effect beta testing by us the players and the feedback and results will allow NGD to adjust further. I think this is the best implementation as you never really get a true representation of the effect of changes on amun.

It would be great to know from NGD how many stages they have planned and what they have planned for each, like a roadmap. (Though I suspect NGD do not have a set number of stages and will simply keep releasing until their idea of balance is achieved).

Totally agree with shared trees, and i don't think that unique trees would be that lot work. For first step they should make separate trees with same skills like now. Then later they can change anything for a subclass without changing the other in small steps.

[Latan]

i would like to know if in 3rd or 4th stage, warrior's weapon trees will be balanced.
at the moment there are some spells with equal effect like charge/gutting/forceful, magnifications, disable limb/balestra/ribs have similar power (a little bit more disable limb in my eyes), the passive dmg resistance.

mainly 2 kind of spells bring the imbalance towards slashing:
1) we have SC with 10 sec CD and instant casting, MS instant and 20 CD and ripost 20 CD and 1 sec casting.
i think a 0.5 casting with 15 or 20 sec CD for both SC and ripost would be ok, maybe adding a 0.5 sec to mind squash (it's really too powerfull as istant spell that can be spammable only with enough mana pool)

2) areas: slash has the 19' area with 2 effects: 1)+200 dmg; 2)knockdown. piercing has the weakest area with no side effects (no +dmg, nor +CC). blunt has at least a side effect of stun, but slash remains FAR WAY better than both

i think those 2 kind of spells are the main issue of the weapon trees balance, but some other spells like brain piercing (what's the point of "interrupt" if the enemy can cast his spell 1 second later? what about adding a 2-4 sec dizzy?), fatal strike/jaw breaker with a too long casting time, crushing totally useless, impale har ridiculous dots. what about increasing dot dmg reducing the duration? and overall i think i've never seen anyone using crash...

[NSer]

Originally Posted by Latan

i would like to know if in 3rd or 4th stage, warrior's weapon trees will be balanced.
at the moment there are some spells with equal effect like charge/gutting/forceful, magnifications, disable limb/balestra/ribs have similar power (a little bit more disable limb in my eyes), the passive dmg resistance.

mainly 2 kind of spells bring the imbalance towards slashing:
1) we have SC with 10 sec CD and instant casting, MS instant and 20 CD and ripost 20 CD and 1 sec casting.
i think a 0.5 casting with 15 or 20 sec CD for both SC and ripost would be ok, maybe adding a 0.5 sec to mind squash (it's really too powerfull as istant spell that can be spammable only with enough mana pool)

2) areas: slash has the 19' area with 2 effects: 1)+200 dmg; 2)knockdown. piercing has the weakest area with no side effects (no +dmg, nor +CC). blunt has at least a side effect of stun, but slash remains FAR WAY better than both

i think those 2 kind of spells are the main issue of the weapon trees balance, but some other spells like brain piercing (what's the point of "interrupt" if the enemy can cast his spell 1 second later? what about adding a 2-4 sec dizzy?), fatal strike/jaw breaker with a too long casting time, crushing totally useless, impale har ridiculous dots. what about increasing dot dmg reducing the duration? and overall i think i've never seen anyone using crash...

Well crashing is quite useful as debuff -10 const at lvl1 hurtful for mage n all cases :d

[Latan]

Originally Posted by NSer

Well crashing is quite useful as debuff -10 const at lvl1 hurtful for mage n all cases :d

sorry i meant execution

[NSer]

Originally Posted by Latan

sorry i meant execution

Only for grind together with Martial reflexes :d

[bois]

Originally Posted by Awrath

The problem NGD have with balance comes down to one thing, shared trees. They can never really balance the 3 classes and the 6 subclasses while trees are shared. One skill on a shared tree maybe OP for one subclass while perfectly reasonable for another. For example, MS which seems to be the topic of discussion at the moment, powerful in the hands of a barb, acceptable in the hands of a knight, as he will not then kill you with 2 hits. This of course is a PvP situation, MS still sucks in RvR, and seems to have a chance greater than what's stated.

I understand that it's a hell of a lot of work to have unique trees per subclass, and it may change the game entirely, but I personally think that it's the only way balance can be really achieved otherwise balance will continue to be a struggle. Not only will the eradication of shared spells help with balance, it will add more dynamics to the game if it is done right.

As for all the whining now, it would be best to wait out and see what NGD have coming for the upcoming stages. For now these balance updates are in effect beta testing by us the players and the feedback and results will allow NGD to adjust further. I think this is the best implementation as you never really get a true representation of the effect of changes on amun.

It would be great to know from NGD how many stages they have planned and what they have planned for each, like a roadmap. (Though I suspect NGD do not have a set number of stages and will simply keep releasing until their idea of balance is achieved).

Agree . Also agree with Kellindil82. The simplest way is to leave the shared trees as they are but impart a subclass distinction on the same spells. In other words they are the same spells and in the same order on the trees but their durations, effects etc. are different. That would be stage 1.
Stage 2 would work to finalise the complete de-linking of shared trees after level 10. So once you choose sub class, Your completely new trees must be reloaded at that time. Run to a cut scene while the resource reloads in the background and you are good to go.

At this point you no longer have 'warrior', 'mage', or 'archer' spells again. They might look the same, maybe be in similar location on the same trees but, they are now tailor fit to the subclass you chose.

In the long run this would be better. In such a case, MS could still exist on both classes but for example, the barb can only squash the last spell in the opponent's stack whereas the Knight would retain the same powerful spell we have now. I think you can see the possibilities with other similar shared spells.
In both cases, the new player (up to level 10) will only see and can skill up to the current position 3 spells now. The player in training would then get the basic skill set of the 'defensive' or 'support' subclass and none of the extended capabilities.
Yes there are holes in my theory I know but hey that is what the community is for. To adjust and improve raw ideas