GameSamba's hall of shameless condemnation

[erttzzadfk]

Originally Posted by Tigerious

Ahah I wonder in what world you are living.

hm..i'm almost sure you didn't really get what i wanted to explain with it.
I don't know your surename, wont be able to write you a real letter or show me my actual emotion while reading your post...
But it would be pretty easy to give you some bad names. What would happen if here in this forum wouldn't be a moderator?

[Tigerious]

Originally Posted by erttzzadfk

hm..i'm almost sure you didn't really get what i wanted to explain with it.
I don't know your surename, wont be able to write you a real letter or show me my actual emotion while reading your post...

Wait me if I'm wrong, but you think you can be anonymous on Internet ?
This should be a bad joke

[erttzzadfk]

Originally Posted by Tigerious

Wait me if I'm wrong, but you think you can be anonymous on Internet ?
This should be a bad joke

öhm...nope?
I think:

Originally Posted by erttzzadfk

hm..i'm almost sure you didn't really get what i wanted to explain with it.
I don't know your surename, wont be able to write you a real letter or show me my actual emotion while reading your post...
But it would be pretty easy to give you some bad names. What would happen if here in this forum wouldn't be a moderator?

I think we both know what was wanted to be said..not really necessary to go on splitting some hairs atm.
Back to topic with the last post:

Originally Posted by erttzzadfk

Dark Age-argument
Have a second look to history and tell me how our system of justice developed.
Now have a look to this modern i-net thing *wow..*.
I have to wear an identity card in rl. Do you have to make sure who you are in game too and why do we have to wear it all the time with us in rl?
When i'm agressive to someone else i'll be not allowed to come nearer then 400m again, have to pay money, will move to prison (kind of ban..) etc.
It's really easy to write a word like "inquisition" but i-net is an anarchic playground at all - and we all know this simple fact caused by anonymity.
When someone is cheating while toure de france..his name shouldn't be read in the newspapers later?
Bad examples? Why?
Cause this is the internet and we are talking about CHARACTER names of a game shown on a list in the www.
A free world on the one hand and a dark aged thing on the other hand with a much more rudimentary kind of contact between it's members.

Kissy publisher-argument
A publisher with harder rules is kissy to players? kk.
So tell me to who is a publisher kissy with softer rules?..
I really don't think the motivation for something is always the key to define positive or negative results of smth.

Too many rules kills the game
Perhaps some in here are right. Perhaps we should leave all forum- and ingame rules to get the maximum of fun out of this game....to take players the possibility to get attention by breaking them. *sarcasm*
GS didn't make new rules. They only show you who didn't likes to follow them in an mmorpg without anticheat, badwordlist, active admins in all servers 24/7, a working routine to handle savecampers (- wmc/ - krp), an ignorelist etc..
It's the result of their experience - not your own experience. It's a warning - an information, given to the other players.

Banlist doesn't change anything
That have to be simply wrong.
Newton's law III: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So it'll change something for sure - let's find out what.
I read so many prophecys before updates... it's up to us to make us later.


PS: i'm still a german searching for the right english words..sry.

[VandaMan]

Originally Posted by PT_DaAr_PT

But do we really need a list to know who got their easy RPs of off save camping? Or who glitched a gem the other day? The word passed by players reaches everyone faster than an inaccurate list. Yes inaccurate, you've seen the posts on facebook by people who didn't make the cut into the list, even though we all saw the hilarious screenshots. Was it fair that GameSamba didn't give those troll kings their much earned place in the list?

I basically said that though - "adding trolls, purple fever carriers, spammers, and harassers is a bit silly and accomplishes nothing." As for the word being passed by players, you know as well as I do that "the word" being passed is quite often inaccurate. Back on Raven "the word" used to say I have speed hacks, cast speed hacks, invincibility hacks, teleportation hacks, and my personal favorite... "crash everyone that attacks me" hacks.

In short I agree with you, about most of the people on the list. When it comes to bug abusers though, I see no reason their offenses shouldn't be public. People cheat in to gain something, whether that be RP, gear, or victories, and when they're caught cheating, whatever they have gained by it should be taken away. We do that with duped gear already, and for people who abuse for RP or an easy win, a list like this seems like a fair punishment.

Imagine for a moment that Tigerious wasn't such a great guy, and GameSamba found out that since the beginning of time he's been using a bug to increase his damage, attack speed, and rate of success on Mind Squasher. Bad Tigerious, first time bug abuser, his ban is 7 days. No one knows, no one knows why he was banned or even that he was banned at all. For all we know he just spent a week on vacation. He comes back, and still has 1st place on the RP rankings, all RP gained by cheating, and no one is the wiser. Not really very fair, is it?

(disclaimer: tigerious is not a haxxor, i checked the list.)

[Tigerious]

Ahaha

Everyone know I only got banned for "Rock" abuse what wasn't glitch or something else but only use a rock near old Samal save to avoid guard attack and kill some afkers.

This should have been published too but all threads about it got deleted :}

[Tigerious]

By the way, we are still waiting for another list for years. The f*cking list of Boss drops. This could prevent from cheated/duped amulets/rings.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Originally Posted by erttzzadfk

Banlist doesn't change anything
That have to be simply wrong.
Newton's law III: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
So it'll change something for sure - let's find out what.
I read so many prophecys before updates... it's up to us to make us later.

This isn't prophecy. You just have to know those people.
I was right with any preupdate conclusions.
I'm always right, once I thought I wasn't right and it turned I was wrong .

PS: i'm still a german searching for the right english words..sry.

Don't worry as long as you don't use "cuz" or childlish-retardish dialect of english, I will discuss.

[PT_DaAr_PT]

Originally Posted by VandaMan

I basically said that though - "adding trolls, purple fever carriers, spammers, and harassers is a bit silly and accomplishes nothing." As for the word being passed by players, you know as well as I do that "the word" being passed is quite often inaccurate. Back on Raven "the word" used to say I have speed hacks, cast speed hacks, invincibility hacks, teleportation hacks, and my personal favorite... "crash everyone that attacks me" hacks.

In short I agree with you, about most of the people on the list. When it comes to bug abusers though, I see no reason their offenses shouldn't be public. People cheat in to gain something, whether that be RP, gear, or victories, and when they're caught cheating, whatever they have gained by it should be taken away. We do that with duped gear already, and for people who abuse for RP or an easy win, a list like this seems like a fair punishment.

Imagine for a moment that Tigerious wasn't such a great guy, and GameSamba found out that since the beginning of time he's been using a bug to increase his damage, attack speed, and rate of success on Mind Squasher. Bad Tigerious, first time bug abuser, his ban is 7 days. No one knows, no one knows why he was banned or even that he was banned at all. For all we know he just spent a week on vacation. He comes back, and still has 1st place on the RP rankings, all RP gained by cheating, and no one is the wiser. Not really very fair, is it?

(disclaimer: tigerious is not a haxxor, i checked the list.)

It's true that half of the rumoring made by players isn't accurate, either. For that reason most rumors remain nothing but rumors. But someone eventually finds proof and the truth comes out. This is something that the hall of shame diminishes. Nobody cares about the evidence. If GameSamba writes it on a sticky post then it must be true and that's all what people care about.

If players who took advantage of game mechanics to guarantee a place in the rankings had to be exposed, a list of names would just not be enough. They'd have to present a reason, too. The way it's done right now, nobody knows how those people got caught. It just tells us we have save campers, spammers, glitchers and, the worst of them all, purple fever carriers(eeeeek).

But I still don't feel convinced that it's a good implementation. First of all, if someone were glitching throughout the years he wouldn't get an easy 7 day ban, and people would have known about it anyway. Second, I think the rankings example is drawn a bit out of proportion, most of us know how these people get their daily dose of RP and it's not by cheating but by legally taking advantage of the game mechanics that are mostly on their favor. GameSamba can't point their fingers at such people, even though they are trying with the save campers, but they aren't doing anything that counts as cheating, people just don't like when they get killed at the save. so it no fair! Probably almost no one who is on the top rankings is a cheater but we all know their RP isn't earned in a noble fashion. Your version of the hall of shame would still remain inaccurate.

[VandaMan]

Originally Posted by PT_DaAr_PT

Nobody cares about the evidence. If GameSamba writes it on a sticky post then it must be true and that's all what people care about.

If players who took advantage of game mechanics to guarantee a place in the rankings had to be exposed, a list of names would just not be enough. They'd have to present a reason, too. The way it's done right now, nobody knows how those people got caught.

Ideally we should be able to trust our GMs to only ban people if they have solid evidence. Do with that what you will, I realize we're not at that point. As for presenting a reason, I don't see a problem with that, provided the reasons are fairly general and categorical, but I doubt that's what you mean. They obviously can't post all of the evidence and exact circumstances for every player they ban, for more reasons than the fact that it'd be a lot of work.

Originally Posted by PT_DaAr_PT

But I still don't feel convinced that it's a good implementation. First of all, if someone were glitching throughout the years he wouldn't get an easy 7 day ban, and people would have known about it anyway. Second, I think the rankings example is drawn a bit out of proportion, most of us know how these people get their daily dose of RP and it's not by cheating but by legally taking advantage of the game mechanics that are mostly on their favor. GameSamba can't point their fingers at such people, even though they are trying with the save campers, but they aren't doing anything that counts as cheating, people just don't like when they get killed at the save. so it no fair! Probably almost no one who is on the top rankings is a cheater but we all know their RP isn't earned in a noble fashion. Your version of the hall of shame would still remain inaccurate.

I'm not convinced it's a good implementation either, I'm just not opposed to the concept. As for the first time bug abuser not getting off as easy as a 7 day ban, I think you might be surprised. NGD's banning seems to be either completely random, or based on purchase history, and GameSamba's banning feels like it's more based on how the player treats the GMs (before and after being caught) than the seriousness of the offense. About the top rankings guys, I didn't actually mean to say that I think they're cheaters, and certainly not that I think the rankings are meaningful, just that being caught cheating should demolish any good reputation you've earned as a player.

I think most of the difference in opinion here can be attributed to different philosophies on punishment. Retributive punishment theory would tell us we need to ban these players, because they've done bad things and need/deserve to suffer. Utilitarian punishment theory would say no one deserves to suffer, but we should punish offenders in a way that discourages them and others from making the same offense, because that offense is bad for the community as a whole.

Banning a player and keeping that ban strictly between NGD/GameSamba and the player punishes them, but does nothing to discourage anyone else from making the same mistake. Naturally it's never that simple, and people do find out when others are banned many times, but I don't find that adequate.

Overthinking? Most likely, but I do love to play devil's advocate =D

[Kitsuni]

Lol you guys made them edit half the people out of that list. This is popcorn worthy!