Least used spells

[Rever_]

Originally Posted by _Kharbon_

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Splinter wall- Never saw it really, too weak, also not used because mages are forced into melee range with it?
Sulters devouring mass: Unfortunate position. Most mages do not skill Mental so high. Masa suele ser usada por los conjuradores de ataque para cazar.

Staff Mastery:

Static field- Low area. Forcing mages into meele range, in not used tree El posicionamiento impide que funciones, he llegado a ser alcanzado por un caballero que me perseguía mientras yo usaba campo estático.
Protection dome - Positioned too high, speed malus is huge disadvantage, unpredictable chance effect
Evendim's fury - not skilled because of its position in Staff Mastery tree and it forces mages into melee

Enchantments:

Curse: effect not worth it, because it works on chance. Although it's stated in the description, it doesn’t reduce damage?
Blindness: bonus is vague Anyone else uses this? Should it be removed from the list?
Clumsiness: Useless Anyone else uses this? Should it be removed from the list?

Arcania:

Petrify hands: Too low effect for the opponent, long cooldown, situations where pure dps decides the battle are rare.
Laziness: warlocks have better ways of disabling opponent’s damage? The effect doesn’t count on opponents spells?
Wind wall: Too low effect.
Fragility: not used in war because “resist physical damage” -5% to -25% is not much. Perhaps it’s because debuffing the opponent is not worth it, as mages have good DoT’s?
Golem fist: requires lot of mana, long casting speed, long cooldown. It’s not worth the low damage.
Añadiría Estallido de cristales, su daño es nulo a día de hoy.

Necromancy:

Sadistic guards: Most spells are successful, this doesn’t appear to be able to counter opponents Son of the Wind or UM?
Possess summoning: This was used by warlocks for use with staff mastery. It’s not used much anymore, because summons are only rarely seen in wars & because reloging kills the creature? Además está bugeada, si te matan la pet pierdes automáticamente los buffs que lleves encima.
Vitality absorption: this should be good but I find the results to be less than stellar even when you apply area damage on many opponents. Maybe this needs one to be explained so layers can grasp it better - Bois

Elements:

Elemental conjuction: Too low bonus, is not worth using.
Elemental exposure: Not worth skilling, as it works on single target only.En situaciones pvp puede llegar a ser muy útil, sobre todo contra enemigos buffeados, pero hay que saber como usarla.

Life:

Greater healing: Tricky to use, long cd
Mass resurrection: I love this spell but high mana, cd, and not so reloiable and no Sanctuary. Not reliable. - Tamui

Summons:

Summon Imps and Summon Zombies: Buggy. Very low survivabilty rate too. When the person is frezzed or sometimes under some kind of another CCs they immediatly go to cd.- Tamui
Passive spells in this tree: Too low to make a difference (anyone uses these at least for grinding?)

Sorcery:

Magic barier: High CD, low effect. Anyone else uses this? Should it be removed from the list?
Force armor: I took more damage with it. - Tamui Bugged?
Shifting silhouette: Too low effect, it’s not worth it relying on chance spells, high mana and casting.



Archers:

Short bows:

Dual shot: Long casting time, low range
Grounding arrow: Low damage, weak effect, long casting
Adaptability: High mana cost, chance effect - not worth it.
Repetition shot: Area spell, therefore used against groups of opponents that will likely be buffed. This causes it to have low damage. Relatively small area, high mana cost, high casting time & cooldown for its effect.
Repitition shot is nice and works, it just needs a slight buff. - Seher

Long bows:

Shield piercing: Not worth the damage.
Point shot: Too low bonus regarding the mana cost, duration and points invested. Gear dependant. Random.
Obfuscate: Not worth the effect, long casting, positioned too high in the tree
Projectile rain: Area spell, therefore used against groups of opponents that will likely be buffed. This causes low damage. Relatively small area of effect, high mana cost, high casting time & cooldown.

Tricks:

Sticky touch: not worth the effect. Situations, where pure dps decides the battle are rare. Single target only. Can easily be countered. Should this be on the list? Anyone uses it?
Finesse: Chance spell, too high mana cost.

Evasion:

Dodge: Chance spell
Cat reflexes: Chance spell, too low bonus
Spell elude: High position, high mana cost, low bonus
Wits: Mana bonus too low for 5 points invested, high in the tree. Muy útil para los tiradores con las nuevas saetas y recarga de mana, aporta 135 de mana y un ligero aumento de la recarga, lo que ayuda mucho.

Scouting:

Camouflage corpse: Has duration, easily reversed by reveal, high mana cost.

Arrow Mastery:

Needle blast: Relatively low damage
Fire rain: Relatively low damage

Aiming mastery:

Dead eye: Attack speed malus counters the damage bonus. Anyone else uses this? Should it be removed from the list?
Focus: movement speed is a great disadvantage, the increase spell focus is not so great effect. Requires lot of points.
Finger crush: Chance spell, effect not worth it.
Cyclops curse: Not worth the effect, too low dmg to invest points, mana and time in.
Seeking strike: Too high mana cost. Anyone else uses this? Should it be removed from the list?


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Answers in Green. I wrote most in Spanish due to my bad English.

[Awrath]

Knights have been well covered! I would have to agree with Artec with regards to block. I do hate relying on NGD's RNG, however, there are times when this buff works well for me random as those blocks may be, it definitely leads to an increase!

Also in agreement that Rigorous preparation is pretty much unused by almost every knight.

Shield bash has not been so useful since it's duration got reduced. I am in agreement with Ulti, it would be nice to see it instant cast.

I saw Ethreal mantle mentioned (if it was a bubble I may use it again!). I agree that the cast time for it is ridiculously long, I would like to see more range and less cast time on it, it could potentially be quite useful to use on conjurers who under steel skin become targets for lock dots, but not in it's current form.

One further change I would like to see is an increase to the speed malus inflicted by the use of Intimidate. Yes, it is used by a lot of knights, but mostly since the only other speed debuff option is disable limb, and as a knight you would be lucky to get close enough to your opponent. Knights are effectively the slowest class in the game, and IMHO, intimidate has still got some way to go before it replaces spring! A knight running under defensive support (the only CC resist spell available to a knight) has almost no chance of keeping up with his allies or catching his opponent. More so, with the increase in speed in the game due to horn of the wind, intimidate only becomes less useful. However, I am hoping HotW will be looked at in december. It still makes no sense to me, knights should be in the front line!

That's all I have to add for now!

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by Quetejodan

Answers in Green. I wrote most in Spanish due to my bad English.

Unfortunately I don't speek Spanish at all. I tried to use Google Translate with varying effect. I took your suggestions (those that translated) into consideraton

Originally Posted by Awrath

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Thanks, I added your suggestions, and removed block from the list. However, I did not add intimidate, as it is used by knights, although it might be underpowered.

[pieceofmeat]

Originally Posted by _Kharbon_

Thanks, I edited the list. If anyone else uses these spells, they will be removed from the list.

Blindness+curse is a somewhat useful combo for pvp/ganking, but far from effective enough for the 10 pps and lvl 19 enchantment tree in any rvr setting, due to 60s cooldown, dispel, DI and other positive buffs.

Completely wasted on mages, but sure you can in 2-3 seconds reduce the threat of a beaconed/um barb significantly, that may have some value in some situations, but it can also easily back fire.

Sticky touch is also similarly useful in some pvp like situations but almost completely useless in a rvr setting.

Back slam is not useless, unless compared to high level beast attack. Perfectly viable for knights to use since it a little faster than shield bash.

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by pieceofmeat

Blindness+curse is a somewhat useful combo for pvp/ganking, but far from effective enough for the 10 pps and lvl 19 enchantment tree in any rvr setting, due to 60s cooldown, dispel, DI and other positive buffs.

Thanks for the suggestions, I removed those spells from the list and marked Curse for potential removal from the list as well.

[Imago-Thunderfist]

About Shield Bash, I don't think it should be instant. Then it is maybe a bit too strong, at the moment I use it very effectively at level 5. The range makes up for the cast time, and it has also a pretty low mana cost so think it's pretty fine (also the cast time makes it for me easier to chain with knocks ^^). If I need an instant dizzy I use Back Slam at level 1/2/3, nice if it works, gives me some time for balestra+shield bash/knock (if I use spears), or d-limb+defensive support/knock (when I'm with axes).

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by Imago-Thunderfist

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Thanks, marked this for revision, will remove it from the list if others use it as well

[Imago-Thunderfist]

Originally Posted by _Kharbon_

As Chilko suggested, here's a list of the least used spells from all classes. I will try to add to the list, so post your suggestions.

Mages:

Mental:

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Sultars devouring mass: Unfortunate position. Most mages do not skill Mental so high.
Is pretty decent, cooldown could be lowered to make it a little more worth it?

Staff Mastery:

Static field- Low area. Forcing mages into meele range, in not used tree
It is on a pretty low place and I have used it as some sort of a "last line of defense" spell against warriors, also some conjurers (not many, since mind push works better) leech kills and xp with it.
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Evendim's fury - not skilled because of its position in Staff Mastery tree and it forces mages into melee
I have seen it used in war, and I really dislike it. That means that the spell is pretty good, but the place is a difficult one, but on the other side: wouldn't it be better that only a few people who sacrifice several other things for Evendim's Fury use it than when it is spammed like beacons?

Enchantments:

Curse: effect not worth it, because it works on chance. Although it's stated in the description, it doesn’t reduce damage?Anyone else uses it?
Blindness is (in my opninion) pretty useless without it (and curse's cooldown is 20 seconds, duration 60, makes it spammable) and -50% hit chance is really a pain in my experience (based on my experience with Hinder cast on me, which also reduces Hit Chance by 50% at level 5).
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Necromancy:

Possess summoning: This was used by warlocks for use with staff mastery. It’s not used much anymore, because summons are only rarely seen in wars & because reloging kills the creature? Bugged.
Think they are meant to be killed by relog, it can be useful when hunting as a warlock, but indeed, it's not used as frequently as before (I still have it at level 1 permanently in my setup, just in case)
Vitality absorption: this should be good but I find the results to be less than stellar even when you apply area damage on many opponents. Maybe this needs one to be explained so layers can grasp it better - Bois
Never really used it myself, but Aniara told me that it can work nice when casting area damage (such as summon lightning) on a zerg.

Elements:

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Life:

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Summons:

Summon Imps and Summon Zombies: Buggy. Very low survivabilty rate too. When the person is frezzed or sometimes under some kind of another CCs they immediatly go to cd.- Tamui
I skilled (after Beardo told me they fixed a bug that caused summons go immediately on cooldown when you casted another summon) Imps, Zombies, Lich and Zarkit and that +50% damage spell for summons. Then summon Imps, Zombies and Lich/Kit and then the +50% damage spell. Works pretty cool, the damage inflicted can be pretty big versus mages/archers(/sometimes barbs). What I like a lot about Zombies is that when you skill them at level 4 (at level 56) you get 4 normal zombies (at level 3 3 normal zombies etc.), while when you skill Lich/Kit at 4 they are very easy/unchallenging (a.k.a. useless). So that's why, in my opninon, at least zombies are quite useful.
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Sorcery:

Magic barier: High CD, low effect. Anyone else uses it?
I do
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Archers:

Short bows:

Dual shot: Long casting time, low range
The range is that of your short bow, I think it's a good spell, but would be cool if cast time was reduced to 0.5 second, because 1 second is really too much.
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Long bows:

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Tricks:

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Evasion:

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Scouting:

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Arrow Mastery:

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Aiming mastery:

Dead eye: Attack speed malus counters the damage bonus. Anyone else uses it?
I do, it's pretty nice now with the new R.A.
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Warriors:

Slashing weapons:

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Piercing weapons:

Ripost: The cast time is the weakness of this one. This is why it is hardly used now. - Bois
the chance to inflict the addition % damage is only hurting this spell further, it should be 100%. - Ulti
The cast time sucks, but 9 out of 10 times when your enemy moves away from you while casting, it is not canceled, and thus it can have like 10 range... Would be nice if it was instant, like south cross, but don't forget: Ripost is 30% (I thought) cheaper in mana cost, that comes at a price.
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Multiple thrust: damage is rather low and cast time is high. Poor return on investment. - Bois
No second effect - Ulti
Devastate also hasn't got a second effect, but if you compare Devastate and Multiple Thrust Multiple Thrust loses on every single point (except cast time, both 1.5 sec). I think this spell needs a buff to make it at least comparable with Devastate.

Blunt weapons:

Execution: No damage, critical chance bonus on a single target not worth the time spent casting.
works in combo with martial reflexes. Not used much I must agree. - Bois
Anyone else uses it?
I use it in grind-mode on my barb combined with Martial reflexes, but not high level yet so couldn't test in war yet.

Tactics:

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Martial reflexes: Doubling crit. hit chance is not worth it?
I use it pretty much when I'm in slashing mode, because even at level 2 it is +100% crit chance for 1 minute, I like it.
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Warcries:

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Two handed mastery:

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Vanguard

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Shields

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Learning physics was boring, so I added my comments on the spells I have experience with and don't need revamp/need just a little tweaking (of course just in my opinion) in yellow
Hope it helps.

[Fiver]

Originally Posted by chilko

We are not just going to remove or buff the spells on this list. I just wanted an up to date list. we will see how this list helps us in the whole balance strategy.

I was there when blizzard started bragging about balance for awesome... its just a marketing term.

But anyway,

Im all about simplifying:

can you please elaborate on this on a separate thread.

I have waited on the sidelines for 9 mo. for the buff or modification of spells, at very minimum some coherent step in the direction of balance.
I say steal some of Gw2 great ideas. Dmg mitigation by dodging comes to mind as an interesting new mechanic.

[_Kharbon_]

Originally Posted by Imago-Thunderfist

Learning physics was boring, so I added my comments on the spells I have experience with and don't need revamp/need just a little tweaking (of course just in my opinion) in yellow
Hope it helps.

Thanks, I removed some of the spells on the list you suggested, and marked others for removal. Now it's time for me to do my physics hw