Serious out-of-balance with hunters

[urgit]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

Here a hunter that confirms that surveillance tracks 360 degree to gather all infos, it just shows the farest in his opinion. Do you hunters don't know your own spells? Did you never asked NGD how it workks and why it woorks so wired?

That is the current working of track skills (scan 360 degree and return farthest enemies). With respect to show farthest enemies, I ask about it, but NGD didn't answer, and with respect to the omnidirectional scanning is a bug and it will be solved in the future (url).

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by MegriM

Exactly, there is a bug that omits the 45º. We will fix it as soon as possible.

Both spells should be used combined for detailed enemy data.

thanks urgit and DM for pointing this out. So it is a know bug and it will be fixed as soon as possible. Too bad it was not possible yet, even this quote was originally written in 11-28-2007. Since there a lot of thinks improved for hunters, but know bugs were not fixed.

Originally Posted by Solarus

I think you may have mis-understood. Lvl 1 track realm does 150m adn is low mana. So it's good to use when you get close so you can pin-point your target.

I think you mis-understood. I talked about a bug that is used by most hunters now. MegriM stated that "both spells should be used combined for detailed enemy data." Now you need only one. For this my argument about saved powerpoints for tracking because it is buged is valid. To gather the same information as you get with bugged spells you have to spend more powerpoints. I think hunters won't spend more powerpoints in tracking then (when it is fixed), they would use track realm enemies on lvl 1 and then surveilance on lvl 3. They would scan for 150 m and if they tracked something they would use surveillance on lvl 3. But they would need to use both spells and they will get less info than now because the range of track realm enemie on lvl 1 is lower than of surveillance on lvl 3. That means the "power" of a hunter would decrease when this bug will be fixed. The decrease would mean hunters would not track you that often, would not find you that often while leveling...people would be not killed that often by hunters and won't get pissed so often. Even if a hunter would put more points in tracking to scan for a higher range he would be easier to kill because he cannot spend the powerpoints in another skill.

Did you notice how hunters like zielski whined when I exposed this bug? Using a bug every day and then whining when it is exposed that it is a bug. He was only afraid to loose some "power". Seems like I didn't only expose a bug, I also exposed an egoistic player who doesn't care about balance, he cares only about his own class' power.

For this the tracking discussion is finshed for me. I was right, many other (mainly hunters) were wrong.

one sidenote: I don't call any hunter buguser for using this, I would use it too, I even used it with my hunter. But it is just lame that some people don't want to see the truth and argue with me beeing wrong. And not telling me important facts...zielski even mentioned Myxir's post but could not remember that NGD told it is bugged. Well, just today he claimed in another thread to have a good memory because it is his job.

[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

thanks urgit and DM for pointing this out. So it is a know bug and it will be fixed as soon as possible. Too bad it was not possible yet, even this quote was originally written in 11-28-2007. Since there a lot of thinks improved for hunters, but know bugs were not fixed.

Dude they are a small development team and are doing a lot of things to the game.

What you see as a priority they might not.

Everything in its time, everything in stages - that is the way it will be and that's the way it will end.

[makarios68]

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

Dude they are a small development team and are doing a lot of things to the game.

What you see as a priority they might not.

Everything in its time, everything in stages - that is the way it will be and that's the way it will end.

Hey, i started reading yr posts now there isn't a swear every few words...

[aric_swartzell]

The tracking skills don't make sense to me, I'd rather track the closest rather than farthest. example, track 350m out but show the closest target. Who cares if there's a green mage 300m out when there's a purple archer 100m out possibly on the route your taking. I've been known to fumble onto people in target rich environments, which isn't a nice situation.

[fluffy_muffin]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

[...]
only afraid to loose some "power". Seems like I didn't only expose a bug, I

Some? I just wait till DS will have -100% evasion and 60sec cooldown :]
I don't whine. I just point that 400mana only for scaning 45deg arc is to much and this spell is buged more than you think. And belive me it will not be easier to kill hunter :]

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

Dude they are a small development team and are doing a lot of things to the game.

What you see as a priority they might not.

Everything in its time, everything in stages - that is the way it will be and that's the way it will end.

I never doubt any of this what you state here. Never. I just said it is bad that it is not fixed yet, then there wouldn't be discussions like this, and people would not say that NGD only improves hunters by giving more and more powers to them. Fixing this long known bug would make the community recognising that NGD is not only going to favour hunters. Hunters would not be realy loose much of "power" with this, they don't need to loose much "power" since they are quite balanced imho, but it would be a sign which can reduce posts where people complain about hunters.

[Comp]

Cumeri,

My bad...I did mis-understand what you were saying. Actually I have to be honest I didn't know about the track bug, I guess I'm one of the few hunters no so worried about running from fights....I like horrible odds - kinda fun

[Hell_bound]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

I never doubt any of this what you state here. Never. I just said it is bad that it is not fixed yet, then there wouldn't be discussions like this, and people would not say that NGD only improves hunters by giving more and more powers to them. Fixing this long known bug would make the community recognising that NGD is not only going to favour hunters. Hunters would not be realy loose much of "power" with this, they don't need to loose much "power" since they are quite balanced imho, but it would be a sign which can reduce posts where people complain about hunters.

If people here realized that MMOs are developed in stages and that one update becomes the base for future updates there would be no threads like this.

Also threads like this may not even be helpful for the development team because it lacks the developmental road map on what changes will be delivered down the road.

Posts like this really only server to help those that believe that one class is overpowered by getting community backing through deceiving the clueless.

Why waste time talking about things that will be forgotten one day? There are better thing you can put you energy into - like teaching your fellow players how to play their class by sharing what skill build you think is better. Or by generating ideas that will expand premium content, where by NGD can make more money to hire more people.

I personally would like to see an end to these type of rant threads and see more threads on the diversity of skill builds and why one build is better then another. Threads on how to make war between realms more interesting and fun. Threads that don't divide, but bring together.

[CumeriTarenes]

Originally Posted by zielski

Some? I just wait till DS will have -100% evasion and 60sec cooldown :]
I don't whine. I just point that 400mana only for scaning 45deg arc is to much and this spell is buged more than you think. And belive me it will not be easier to kill hunter :]

Yes, only "some power". As I mentioned in my next to last post in this thread you can still have a nice tracking instrument after fixing this bug. When you put even 2 power points more in it ( as you have now, summarised 4 points at all) you can lvl up track realm enemy and surveillance on lvl 3. Should be enough imho. When you want to have more tracking power you have to put more points in it...so you will have to sacrifice power points from other skills. You see that my argumetn about power points is valid? To bad I hardly see someone admitting for beeing wrong.

Solarus aka comp, I appreciate your words, you showed you are not like zielski.

To the mana, it should not be a problem in groups and using one skill on lvl 1 the other on lvl 3 costs only 400 mana. But hey, don't whine that it costs much mana to se both on lvl 5....learn to use your skills, you don't need both on lvl 5

To the DS thing zielski...just make up a new thread and whine about DS...I have some nice arguments for it

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

If people here realized that MMOs are developed in stages and that one update becomes the base for future updates there would be no threads like this.

Also threads like this may not even be helpful for the development team because it lacks the developmental road map on what changes will be delivered down the road.

Posts like this really only server to help those that believe that one class is overpowered by getting community backing through deceiving the clueless.

Why waste time talking about things that will be forgotten one day? There are better thing you can put you energy into - like teaching your fellow players how to play their class by sharing what skill build you think is better. Or by generating ideas that will expand premium content, where by NGD can make more money to hire more people.

I personally would like to see an end to these type of rant threads and see more threads on the diversity of skill builds and why one build is better then another. Threads on how to make war between realms more interesting and fun. Threads that don't divide, but bring together.

I realy agree with you and this is one of the first post from you I can understand from the language as well as I can see a sence in it. I also appreciate your apologize for insulting me. I hope we can have a new start together.

But I don't want to divide the community, I try to bring it together by trying to find out why people think hunters are overpowered and what can be done to stop them thinking this. And fixing a long know bug that favours hunters is a chance to decrease the hates on hunters. I know there is a roadmap, but as a developer stated it will be fixed.

Also NGD needs feedback from the community to make minor changes, they actually did it a few times. Last I can remember was to increase cooldown of confuse. Because NGD is a very small development team they created a balance team. In the balance team are experienced players, and at least these players listen to their comrades and influence NGD in their decisions. This can be bad and can be good. It depends on the community how it influences the balance team.

And yes, I agree with the fact that we should talk more about war tactics and setups, not only in pms, clan chat or other non public communication features. It will bring more challenge and with this more fun in battle when you share your knowledge. I totally agree and mentioned this fact already. Signatus was so nice to revive DM's thread about war tactics. This is a start, but there should be more. What about starting a thread for every class and discuss there about setups? Or does this belong to the threads in development board? As far as I know and it is stated in the very first post in this threads not.