Evasion/Block/Resists (again) - Page 4

tak · 08-10-2008, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valorius

What are you talking about? I made a simple observation: Warlocks block arrows like crazy with windwall. A simple fact.

You didn't say block, you said evade. So i figured you might not know what the spell does and decided to enlighten you,
Second, you didn't post a simple fact, you posted biased. Simple fact would have been "Wind wall allows mages to block ranged attacks", your choice of the words "like crazy" implies that the spell is unbalancing towards ranged classes attacking warlocks.
You might benefit from reading up on connotation and denotation.

Valorius · 08-10-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tak

You didn't say block, you said evade. So i figured you might not know what the spell does and decided to enlighten you,

Same net effect between block and evade, the arrow doesn't hit. Do you nit pick much, or are you just deliberately flaming?

tak · 08-10-2008, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valorius

Same net effect between block and evade, the arrow doesn't hit. Do you nit pick much, or are you just deliberately flaming?

Though the outcome is the same block and evade are different things with different implementations.
Like i said it caught my eye that you used the word evade and thought you might be misinformed.

makarios68 · 08-10-2008, 11:19 PM

Girls, put your handbags down!!

We all seem to be agreed on the main theme of the thread: that the prevelance of evades/resists/blocks is spoiling the fun, especially at forts.

So let's leave it at that.

I reset for fort acion this weekend - no pet and max shorts for rep shot - the way i used to play and a lot of fun with.

After 3 or 4 attempts at camo/rep shot i realised how much things have changed - i was lucky if i hit 2 or 3 people, and commonly 10 or so didn't get hit.

It never used to be like that!!

No wonder nowadays you hardly ever see hunters taking the risk with that great melee range area skill...

tak · 08-10-2008, 11:22 PM

I read in some devs post that they are aware of the problem but that it is non-trivial to fix.

I just keep my fingers crossed it doesn't take as much time fixing as did implementing the recent change of Camouflage...

fluffy_muffin · 08-11-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makarios68

No wonder nowadays you hardly ever see hunters taking the risk with that great melee range area skill...

Yes using rep shot now is boring and not funny at all

Mod, aura spam, darkness :P

Valorius · 08-11-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zielski

Yes using rep shot now is boring and not funny at all

Mod, aura spam, darkness :P

That's why i stopped using it. Even if you sneak up invisible, if anyone casts mod, you're screwed.

You're right next to the enemy with invis almost worn off and not enough time to escape, and no ability to spell cast anything anyway.

And like wudy said even if you get the spell cast and it fires, over half the arrows are blocked/resisted/evaded/openly mocked anyway.

Not to mention that every warrior and his brother has typhoon, howl or lightning strike, all of which cancel it out too, and can indiscriminately hit any invis hunter.

Repetition shot is best used as a 1 on 1 assassination attack now. Even then it's very risky because if the other guy resists/blocks/evades/mocks you're out 1/3 of your mana to no effect.

Signatus · 08-11-2008, 07:21 PM

There I go again, I feel like a Devil's Advocate but I need to express my vision on the issue.

Miraculix's 5 straight resistances is... bizarre, nothing more. Either it indicates a bug of sorts OR that he died painfully on the following hours because he wasn't able to "resist" on other fighting situations. The interesting thing about probabilities is that they DO pay back... or at least there is a chance of it! ^^

I never take much notice on what skills or hits are evaded/resisted/blocked on my adversaries, provided that the barbarian behind me lands his hits. The approach is very simple, raise the number of attacks and you'll have your adversary facing an unavoidable defeat, a rule of thumb to counter any probabilistic mechanism. There are many examples on the battlefield of this normal behavior: SoW rushing archers will have a balestra (to name an example) placed when they least expect it, simple because the big numbers made their magic (therefore comes another rule of thumb, on an "epic" war no hit is redundant regardless of the defensive skills used by the opponent, simply because it may be your hit the one that isn't blocked/evaded/resisted); another is Precise+Protector escape made by knights, if activated far enough from support, and given sufficient numbers of attackers, the knight will, most probably ^^, die (I've been killed on the first 2 attacks after having it activated and with 2k hp, I've been killed after countless attacks, and I've survived despite having 100hp by blocking 8+ attacks...); another is protection dome mechanism, provided that you haven't the sad idea of trying to drop you area alone, the 10+ resisted is laughable as long as the 5 following warrior and the 4 arriving warlocks have landed theirs around the same spot, knowing that some warriors have up to 2 area attack spells the increased spell resistance will end up in what everyone can testify after a rush of this sort, many dead bodies and some few running away with less then half of their hit points.

The obvious claim after such facts is: no 1V1 observation provides indication of probabilities mechanism failure (unless it is a very long PvP). The following corollary must be accepted too, balance can only be understood by RvR interactions, the bigger and diverse the armies, the better.

Of course that accepting the above paragraph is to accept that the game is meant to be played on a RvR experience...

So, when I see this sort of request, the one about changing the evades/blocks/resists, my first thought is, be careful. I do understand your upset if your adversary was on a "lucky strike" and you were alone but think about of how many times a war was "epic" because *that* terror was blocked and/or *that* lightning strike was resisted, because truth be told, when I play a barbarian I only need one area knock down successful enough to survive the rush, after dropping +2k on an area 10 (and like me, a couple of more others so that the total might as well be +8k) you'd better resist/evade/block or no more fun for you!...

Valorius · 08-12-2008, 01:57 AM

I see lots of players resist many attacks in a row. I was fighting with the Syrtis army at PB and Jane Falco evaded like 7 straight attacks from me(plus lots of evades from other players). Last night i was chasing Heartbreaker, and he evaded like 6 attacks in a row.

It's as frustrating as it is random.

theotherhiveking · 08-12-2008, 02:57 PM

Yeah, its horrible, I have been killed lots of times because of the insane evades and resist. Yesterday, i needed only 1 hit to kill miraculix, and he evaded my normal attack then my spiritual attack, then another normal attack from a mage, then a marksman pwned me and the archer ran to safety without any trouble.

Result: me dead, archer with 1/10 of his life alive and kicking.

the photo: Result: me death, lvl43 barb with 4/10 of his life, alive.

Plain ridiculous.

08-11-2008, 07:21 PM	#38
Signatus Master Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Damn, I'm lost again!... but now I have a map, wiii! Posts: 389	There I go again, I feel like a Devil's Advocate but I need to express my vision on the issue. Miraculix's 5 straight resistances is... bizarre, nothing more. Either it indicates a bug of sorts OR that he died painfully on the following hours because he wasn't able to "resist" on other fighting situations. The interesting thing about probabilities is that they DO pay back... or at least there is a chance of it! ^^ I never take much notice on what skills or hits are evaded/resisted/blocked on my adversaries, provided that the barbarian behind me lands his hits. The approach is very simple, raise the number of attacks and you'll have your adversary facing an unavoidable defeat, a rule of thumb to counter any probabilistic mechanism. There are many examples on the battlefield of this normal behavior: SoW rushing archers will have a balestra (to name an example) placed when they least expect it, simple because the big numbers made their magic (therefore comes another rule of thumb, on an "epic" war no hit is redundant regardless of the defensive skills used by the opponent, simply because it may be your hit the one that isn't blocked/evaded/resisted); another is Precise+Protector escape made by knights, if activated far enough from support, and given sufficient numbers of attackers, the knight will, most probably ^^, die (I've been killed on the first 2 attacks after having it activated and with 2k hp, I've been killed after countless attacks, and I've survived despite having 100hp by blocking 8+ attacks...); another is protection dome mechanism, provided that you haven't the sad idea of trying to drop you area alone, the 10+ resisted is laughable as long as the 5 following warrior and the 4 arriving warlocks have landed theirs around the same spot, knowing that some warriors have up to 2 area attack spells the increased spell resistance will end up in what everyone can testify after a rush of this sort, many dead bodies and some few running away with less then half of their hit points. The obvious claim after such facts is: no 1V1 observation provides indication of probabilities mechanism failure (unless it is a very long PvP). The following corollary must be accepted too, balance can only be understood by RvR interactions, the bigger and diverse the armies, the better. Of course that accepting the above paragraph is to accept that the game is meant to be played on a RvR experience... So, when I see this sort of request, the one about changing the evades/blocks/resists, my first thought is, be careful. I do understand your upset if your adversary was on a "lucky strike" and you were alone but think about of how many times a war was "epic" because that terror was blocked and/or that lightning strike was resisted, because truth be told, when I play a barbarian I only need one area knock down successful enough to survive the rush, after dropping +2k on an area 10 (and like me, a couple of more others so that the total might as well be +8k) you'd better resist/evade/block or no more fun for you!... __________________ The sound of the Gion Shōja bells echoes the impermanence of all things; the color of the sāla flowers reveals the truth that the prosperous must decline. The proud do not endure, they are like a dream on a spring night; the mighty fall at last, they are as dust before the wind. -- Chapter 1.1 of The Tale of Heike, Helen Craig McCullough's translation

08-10-2008, 11:19 PM	#34
makarios68 Count Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: England Posts: 1,300	Girls, put your handbags down!! We all seem to be agreed on the main theme of the thread: that the prevelance of evades/resists/blocks is spoiling the fun, especially at forts. So let's leave it at that. I reset for fort acion this weekend - no pet and max shorts for rep shot - the way i used to play and a lot of fun with. After 3 or 4 attempts at camo/rep shot i realised how much things have changed - i was lucky if i hit 2 or 3 people, and commonly 10 or so didn't get hit. It never used to be like that!! No wonder nowadays you hardly ever see hunters taking the risk with that great melee range area skill...

08-10-2008, 11:22 PM	#35
tak Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 309	I read in some devs post that they are aware of the problem but that it is non-trivial to fix. I just keep my fingers crossed it doesn't take as much time fixing as did implementing the recent change of Camouflage...

08-12-2008, 01:57 AM	#39
Valorius Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,994	I see lots of players resist many attacks in a row. I was fighting with the Syrtis army at PB and Jane Falco evaded like 7 straight attacks from me(plus lots of evades from other players). Last night i was chasing Heartbreaker, and he evaded like 6 attacks in a row. It's as frustrating as it is random.