For those who thought....

[DkySven]

Originally Posted by Flightcap

Ok, here's my 2 cents on the issue, then I'm done.

My thoughts come mostly in the form of questions......

How does your (anti-gun folks) logic work out to the idea that guns are the problem? Have you forgotten the hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - of people that died violent deaths before gunpowder was ever discovered? Sadly, human nature is always bent towards destruction. Destroying our latest invention for destruction, sadly, will never solve that. The problem you are trying to address is correct - humans with evil intent are more dangerous with guns. The method you use to address it is not. Evil intent can be dangerous with a stick. If we ban guns, shouldn't we next ban sticks, rocks, and kitchen knives?

In short, banning guns is never going to remove the root problem - humanity's destructive nature - that brings evil intent to fruition. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Then explain me why there are more shooting accidents at American schools etc. than in Europe if it isn't because of how easy(compared with Europa) guns are available in America.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Originally Posted by asdfghs

Then explain me why there are more shooting accidents at American schools etc. than in Europe if it isn't because of how easy(compared with Europa) guns are available in America.

Bingo !!!

[Xero_Aurion]

Finally someone's got it! And people wonder why I say something like this?

Originally Posted by Xero_Aurion

Pretty simple eh? Your life is what you <--- (biggest keyword ever) make it.

Meaning that the decisions made and the actions acted upon do have an affect on your outcome in life. Just think about it for a quick second...it's not too hard to figure out eh?

I love when I get ignored

By the way I ask that any adult on here who is willing and wants to learn...please watch the video I posted a while ago on here...just so you know it is about 2 hours long. So if you choose to watch it then make sure you have the spare time.

[DuoMaxwell]

Originally Posted by Flightcap

Ok, here's my 2 cents on the issue, then I'm done.

My thoughts come mostly in the form of questions......

How does your (anti-gun folks) logic work out to the idea that guns are the problem? Have you forgotten the hundreds of thousands - maybe millions - of people that died violent deaths before gunpowder was ever discovered? Sadly, human nature is always bent towards destruction. Destroying our latest invention for destruction, sadly, will never solve that. The problem you are trying to address is correct - humans with evil intent are more dangerous with guns. The method you use to address it is not. Evil intent can be dangerous with a stick. If we ban guns, shouldn't we next ban sticks, rocks, and kitchen knives?

In short, banning guns is never going to remove the root problem - humanity's destructive nature - that brings evil intent to fruition. You're barking up the wrong tree.

And we have a winner!

You have to fix the problem, not treat the symptoms. The only way to stop violence is to change human nature, which is impossible. So you have to take the next logical step, and remove incentive for violence. Probably the best ways to do this are to improve education and public services as well as remove laws on things that deal with morality and vice as they are for things that aren't damaging to society, but the laws themselves create many problems with society.

Want to make an actual dent in the sexually transmitted disease infection rate? legalize prostitution, just have oversight of it requiring valid papers showing that the hookers are disease free.

Want to make a dent in gangs? As I said before, legalize the drugs that have no adverse health effects and treat them as you would alcohol and tobacco. you gain allot more money in the stare coffers from the taxes and you remove the gang's major money maker as well as remove them from becoming "gateway" drugs, since the only way I've ever seen something like marijuana become a lead in to other drugs is wen it's been laced with an actually addictive drug.

You wanna stop wars with other countries over resources? Get on completely renewable energy, water and food production and remove allot of the patents and copyrights that are holding back technological progress in our country to allow new businesses to start up and create more jobs.

Think prevention, not prohibition, as we can see how the prohibition of alcohol, sex, marijuana and every other drug has made us so much safer and has reduced crime.

But I guess we can forgive you, you have given no say in your countries future, and your apathy has allowed them to become everything that George Orwell warned us about and so much worse. Just remember, god save the queen.

Hell, stop tacking bad songs into topics, its a political discussion, if you're getting political advice from music you should put down the crack pipe. Besides, slipknot has only had like 3 good songs, and thats not one of them. It's like Mushroomead, as far as I've seen they only have 2 good tracks, their best is one where they have Jens Kidman of Meshuggah, the epic math metal band doing guest vocals and teaching them how to not suck in the track "The Dream Is Over" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMCtZXxozTM (sorry for the fail amv, but its the only decent sounding copy on youtube...) The other track is their more hard rock sound which they did well with in "Sun Doesn't Rise" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOzovX_3XhE but you can see that they're still trying to hard in their videos...

[Angel_de_Combate]

Originally Posted by xero_aurion

Meaning that the decisions made and the actions acted upon do have an affect on your outcome in life. Just think about it for a quick second...it's not too hard to figure out eh?

Also knowing when youve made a mistake is a good point too.

Originally Posted by Xero_Aurion

I love when I get ignored

You werent ignored

Originally Posted by xero_aurion

By the way I ask that any adult on here who is willing and wants to learn...please watch the video I posted a while ago on here...just so you know it is about 2 hours long. So if you choose to watch it then make sure you have the spare time.

Ill watch it when i have chance, i did see the first 10 mins though and it looks very interesting

[Angel_de_Combate]

Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell

You have to fix the problem, not treat the symptoms. The only way to stop violence is to change human nature, which is impossible. So you have to take the next logical step, and remove incentive for violence. Probably the best ways to do this are to improve education and public services as well as remove laws on things that deal with morality and vice as they are for things that aren't damaging to society, but the laws themselves create many problems with society.

No just dont give out guns to the general public, they should only go to the people who need them, the police force and the military. As for laws, they are essential to make society run smoothly, without them we'd have chaos.

Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell

Want to make an actual dent in the sexually transmitted disease infection rate? legalize prostitution, just have oversight of it requiring valid papers showing that the hookers are disease free.

Are you off your rocker !!! How will making prostitution legal solve this..let me ask you this wont most men and woman (as male prostitution does exist too) want to lose their virginity too(and still have sex with) someone they love or know even ? Someone their actually attracted to even ?? Sexually transmitted diseases need to be tackled with the on going promotion of safe sex..using a condom, sleeping with people that you have known longer than one night..not legalising prostitution ffs. The only people that would benefit from this would be the prostitutes, they'd be able to ply there trade legally, thats it.

Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell

Want to make a dent in gangs? As I said before, legalize the drugs that have no adverse health effects and treat them as you would alcohol and tobacco. you gain allot more money in the stare coffers from the taxes and you remove the gang's major money maker as well as remove them from becoming "gateway" drugs, since the only way I've ever seen something like marijuana become a lead in to other drugs is wen it's been laced with an actually addictive drug.

All drugs have adverse side affects, check your aspirin bottle ! If you were to legalise..say heroin..you would be lowering the crime rate..as most heroin users steal to fund there expensive habit. You'd never get rid of the black market that say sell counterfeit dvds, clothes, bags, trainers which the proceeds go to buy more drugs.

You wanna stop wars with other countries over resources? Get on completely renewable energy, water and food production and remove allot of the patents and copyrights that are holding back technological progress in our country to allow new businesses to start up and create more jobs.

This is agree with..we need make a big push with renewable energy sources, oil and gas should have been ditched bloody years and years ago.

Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell

Think prevention, not prohibition, as we can see how the prohibition of alcohol, sex, marijuana and every other drug has made us so much safer and has reduced crime.

Prohibition doesnt work..as it generally goes ignored.

Originally Posted by DuoMaxwell

But I guess we can forgive you, you have given no say in your countries future, and your apathy has allowed them to become everything that George Orwell warned us about and so much worse. Just remember, god save the queen.

I dont need your forgiveness, i give say when i need to give say and thats the end of it..i dont need to vote to achieve anything. Everyone has the right to vote and i choose not to. When people finally realise that saving the planet is more important that damn politics, then ill vote and maybe people will vote with me, but i doubt it.

[ncvr]

Originally Posted by Skatz1980

No just dont give out guns to the general public, they should only go to the people who need them, the police force and the military. As for laws, they are essential to make society run smoothly, without them we'd have chaos.

If people want guns, they will have guns.

[Angel_de_Combate]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

If people want guns, they will have guns.

Very true, but very sad. Ah to fight a war with words rather than bullets.....

[DkySven]

Originally Posted by Necrovarus

If people want guns, they will have guns.

But they will be much harder to get.

Here in the Netherlands softdrugs and prostitution are legal and it's found out with tests by mayors who got fed up by coffeeshops that when drugs is made illegal crime rates rise. When you allow things to some extent they are much easier to control. If you want a gun you can't just get a license, but you need to have a good reason. Again, it is proved by statistics that in countries where guns are allowed that there are more shooting accidents.

[DuoMaxwell]

Originally Posted by Skatz1980

No just dont give out guns to the general public, they should only go to the people who need them, the police force and the military. As for laws, they are essential to make society run smoothly, without them we'd have chaos.



Are you off your rocker !!! How will making prostitution legal solve this..let me ask you this wont most men and woman (as male prostitution does exist too) want to lose their virginity too(and still have sex with) someone they love or know even ? Someone their actually attracted to even ?? Sexually transmitted diseases need to be tackled with the on going promotion of safe sex..using a condom, sleeping with people that you have known longer than one night..not legalising prostitution ffs. The only people that would benefit from this would be the prostitutes, they'd be able to ply there trade legally, thats it.




All drugs have adverse side affects, check your aspirin bottle ! If you were to legalise..say heroin..you would be lowering the crime rate..as most heroin users steal to fund there expensive habit. You'd never get rid of the black market that say sell counterfeit dvds, clothes, bags, trainers which the proceeds go to buy more drugs.

You wanna stop wars with other countries over resources? Get on completely renewable energy, water and food production and remove allot of the patents and copyrights that are holding back technological progress in our country to allow new businesses to start up and create more jobs.

This is agree with..we need make a big push with renewable energy sources, oil and gas should have been ditched bloody years and years ago.



Prohibition doesnt work..as it generally goes ignored.



I dont need your forgiveness, i give say when i need to give say and thats the end of it..i dont need to vote to achieve anything. Everyone has the right to vote and i choose not to. When people finally realise that saving the planet is more important that damn politics, then ill vote and maybe people will vote with me, but i doubt it.

Do I have to teach you everything? What do you do when the police or military become your own enemy? It has happened in several countries where a fascist dictator has come to power, they always ban the public from owning weapons, this leaves them with no ability to defend themselves in the unlikely event they have to. As before, its not the gun that commits the crime, it's the guy pulling the trigger. Remember, everyone has the human right to defend themselves, they should also have the education and the means to do so.

As for prostitution, where did I say fix the STD problem? I said make a dent in infection rates. Right now any John looking to get his knob slobbed is hoping his ass off that the girl he picks up on the corner of 21st and center doesn't have any form of slow and painful death and that his condom holds out. By implementing what the type of system they have in Las Vegas about prostitution to ensure the hooker is disease free. On top of this you can generate more money to help research a cure for these diseases by putting a tax on it and having said tax money go toward a public lab for this that is forced to make all of their work public domain, unlike the bastards at the big pharma companies that currently hold people hostage with patented drugs that they make for a penny a pill but sell for $200 a bottle. If the treatment drugs are public domain any company with the means can make the pills, which forces the price down.

Lets not forget Education in this as well, Some of that money can also be use for sex ed, yes it should be mandatory and no, you should never prance around the subject or any subject for that matter. No, abstinence only doesn't work, just take a look at africa where the dumbass missionaries have been telling people not to have sex and not to use contraceptives when they do. It's lead to pretty much the largest outbreak of HIV anywhere and a massive public denial of the problem.

On top of this it might more then likely make some impact on human trafficking if proper oversight where in place to make sure that everyone involved was a legal citizen.

As for drugs having adverse effects, sue all do, but some are far worse then others. Ever seen how widespread the chewing of cocaine leaves is in south and central america? it's their version of the 3 cups a day of coffee. Yet they never overdose and none of them have ever looked like completely tweaked out crackheads. Why? Simple. The processed drug cocaine is mixed with all manner of toxic chemicals after it's been concentrated and distilled.

As for marijuana, every study on it has shown it to be healthier then smoking tobacco, as in no tar and that THC is nowhere near as addictive as nicotine.

You wanna talk about legal heroin? It exists, Morphine and Codeine are both legal versions of heroin, purified and untainted. It;s not that they work as a pain killer, they just get you high enough that you don't care anymore, the problem is that they are highly addictive and in high doses, lethal. The drugs I'm suggestion should be legalized are the ones that don't seem to cause any real problems to health and what little you do get from them is not all that different then what you could get from existing means. Bu in the case of marijuana its also the major cash cow of the drug trade, legalize it and you remove most gangs largest source of income.

Like it or not, most people picked up for marijuana are completely nonviolent offenders, more often then not they also don't do anything else illegal in their life, yet they get harsher penalties then most violent criminals and when imprisoned they are placed in with the real monsters and murderers. You don't think that f they weren't a criminal in any other capacity before they went in that aren't going to come out 10 years later now equipped with plenty of newly acquired criminal know how and the attitude toward life that will allow them to use it? Don't be so naive. Gangs are major employers, they're looking for anyone that is desperate for cash and is willing to take any type of work, and with the current public ridicule and shunning even minor offenders get outside of prison it' pretty much as if they never left prison. For many, the only place they have to turn to is to crime.

But who created the criminal? The kid getting caught smoking a blunt after class, or the judge that decided to make an example of him and toss him into the den of lions for 15 years? Remember, fix the problem, not the symptom.

Prohibition doesn't work, not because it's ignored, but because it allows for criminal smuggling and production to move in to fill the void that was once filled by legal means. Don't believe me? Just look at what happened to america and the small street gangs that turned into alcohol smugglers, they became some of the most powerful and feared people on the planet because they now had a massive influx of cash from the alcohol smuggling. The mafias. While the old mafias crumbled a bit after the age of prohibition they soon jumped on the illegal drug trade once it started to pick up steam in the late 1960's, leading us to the problems we have today where billions are made each year off of selling toxic drugs mixed purely to get you as addicted as possible.

I see that even after our little chat in game that you still have trouble seeing the big picture, and that what you keep going after are symptoms of a larger problem. Fix the big problem, by doing it right you make all involved happy save for the few religious nut jobs off in the corner that will froth like Jack Thompson at a Grand Theft Auto release party. But nobody should be paying attention to them anyways, if you actually paid attention to them for more then 5 minutes you'd quickly be looking for a phone to call the psyche ward and have them committed.

Its like I pointed out earlier with idiots and power generation. You've got anti nuke retards that prevent us from building breeders and new fission reactors so that instead of using 40+ year old reactors that where supposed to be decommissioned by now and reprocessing their waste through the breeder and back into the fission reactors till theres nothing left of it that is radioactive we're trying to burry it under mountains for a few hundred thousand years and hoping nothing bad will ever happen.

The twits that keep bringing up solar photovoltaic are equally dumb, sure we have enough sun, sure you can get panels that work in Oslo, but they have 4 things going against them, 1 expensive as all hell for the power you get, 2, don't produce enough power for the area required, 3, they use expensive, hard to find rare earth materials like indium and 4, they're still pretty fragile.

Is there still a way to use the sun for power? of course, as before, solar thermal, uses cheap, existing tech thats long proven it's capable of the job.

Where does solar photovoltaic actually make sense? Possibly in a way like Konarka and I think one other company has figured out, ultra thin, any color photovoltaic sheets, you could use them to cover the outside of a laptop or as the paint job of a car, they've shown they can be tinted almost any color and only lose a small amount of power generation capacity. But last I checked Konarka was looking for military contracts trying to sell their photovoltaic film as tents to the US military.

So what way do you plan to wiggle out of this? Got anything you wanna throw into the pot? I'm more then capable of picking through any argument and I'm quite enjoying myself. So far you've continually described symptoms of larger problems, fixing the real problems fixes all of the symptoms as well.