About Syrtis "zerging-farming"

Thrillem · 03-10-2010, 09:47 AM

I just wanted to make this thread because some people (among them some "Syrtians" who spend hours dancing at CS and only move for Eve or Vesper time and who rarely come to battle -and when they come the hard work is already done) blame the (other) Syrtians of "farming" like it was a crime.

First of all, you (CS-dancers and others) cannot blame all the Syrtians of "farming" or of "zerging stupidity" as Klutu has once said. There are some players -like in Alsius or Ignis-who are obssesed with getting rp but you cannot blame everybody because then you blame yourself too.

As for myself when I get bored because there is little resistance from the other realm I try to convince others to go somewhere else, often without success. Only a few people are capable of taking command of the zerg and convince others of doing something else but in fact there is not really much else to do in the wz than taken forts/castles.

So the problem is not Syrtis but the game in its current state (read NGD). If Alsius or Ignis had higher population than Syrtis they would do the same.

If there were other things to do in the wz or if Horus had a larger population -like maybe Ra?- then we all could have more fun, I suppose.

Freduardo · 03-10-2010, 10:37 AM

Agreed.

In the few comments I've made here about numbers imbalance I always tried to specify that it's not just Syrtis who farm. All realms have a (evergrowing) number of players who's sole concern is their own RP count.

Given that Syrtis is the realm that outnumbers the other 2 most of the time, you'll also have the biggerst share of RP-whores. And of course there's also the newer player, who "grows up" seeing nothing but hiding inside forts and farming.

Splitting up at zerg intentionally is maybe hard to do (unintentionally however ... :P).

As for RP. There have been a few suggestions of adding a purpose to those numbers. However imho, even if it's just a cosmetic reward, this would only promote farming and rp-whoring even more.
For me personaly, the only way to deal with it given the current game's state, is to make fun of everyone who mentions his or her rp count like it matters.

It would help if NGD fixed some spells and re-added cooldown on cancelled spells to give the outnumbered force some more 'tools' to work with, but I guess that's food for one of the other topics ...

Revolverxxx · 03-10-2010, 10:47 AM

i dont get whats so bad about people gaining rp. this is a war game and your aim is to defeat the other realm and defeating them gives you rp... why would you want that to stop, thats what makes the game what it is. i personally would like to see more people taking part in the wars.

i agree that id like to see more to this game than just fort wars all the time but in time ngd will implement things like that. i think the game is fine the way it is and it can only get better from here

Perdunadan · 03-10-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrillem

First of all, you (CS-dancers and others) cannot blame all the Syrtians of "farming" or of "zerging stupidity" as Klutu has once said.

Lol /me remembers the times when Klutu was a syrtian who danced on CS wit others.

That was cool times when Ignis opened their portal almost every night

DD
Cheers SoL you may agree with me we had fun, even running "naked" from Efe to Alga.
You play to have fun. Some ppl have fun dancing on cs, some ppl have fun farming/zerging, some ppl have fun blaming each other. Some like to xerocopy magna, some like to "platyna" their gear. So have fun (if it was not denied by rules!)!!!

Freduardo · 03-10-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolverxxx

i dont get whats so bad about people gaining rp. this is a war game and your aim is to defeat the other realm and defeating them gives you rp... why would you want that to stop, thats what makes the game what it is. i personally would like to see more people taking part in the wars.

Sorry. I'll specify.

I agree that the RP system has it's merits. Yes, it's good that you want to war, and it's even better that when you succeed at it, you get a reward: RP. And yes, RP should not be removed or something like that.

However, this has a few downsides that seem to happen (to me) more and more in game.
- RP farming: Staying inside/near a fort or castle with a zerg just to kill those few people to take it back over and over again. (Those few should know better as well btw

)
- RP whoring: Going out of your way just to get RP for yourself, not thinking about the good for the whole group. Random example: 2 groups face each other. 1 knight in group A casts 3 of his aura's at the same time, just so he would get more RP for himself from every kill, effectively blocking any GH, MC or MP. Group B completely thrashes group A.
- RP bragging: People brag about their RP count like it matters. There's nothing wrong with someone saying "Hey guys, I got exactly 10k rp now!". There is however, if someone says "I pwn I got 2k RP from that fight!" when that particular fight was a pure RP farm.

Like the OP said: Getting more and more people on Horus that play (and dont afk/dance at CS or trade their drops in chat all the time). Will hopefully decrease the farming. I'll add giving more tactical tools to the underpopulated groups to that as well.

Back on-topic: All realms farm

.

Neliel_ · 03-10-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrillem

If there were other things to do in the wz or if Horus had a larger population -like maybe Ra?- then we all could have more fun, I suppose.

No, we don't have fun, we have server lag and/or low FPS. Best is sunday night when they're 150 people involved in a single fort, we have to invade in the morning GMT otherwise if we do this at peak hour the server crashes :P

Quote:

As for myself when I get bored because there is little resistance from the other realm I try to convince others to go somewhere else, often without success. Only a few people are capable of taking command of the zerg and convince others of doing something else but in fact there is not really much else to do in the wz than taken forts/castles.

Well, your Zerg is a small group on Ra, and we've the same problem, since the mob relocation, WZ is empty out of bridge camping, and becoming a meni or trelleboy, no thanks.

Quote:

So the problem is not Syrtis but the game in its current state (read NGD). If Alsius or Ignis had higher population than Syrtis they would do the same.

There are time zones issues on Ra like every "international" server despite there are no underpopulated realms

bois · 03-10-2010, 01:53 PM

This issue has been discussed 'ad nauseum' in my view. Again,I must say that Syrtis zerging and resulting Rp whoring etc is merely A SYMPTOM of underlying issues in the game.
Firstly, it speaks to imbalances in the basic design and structure of the realms all the way down to psychological issues like races, colours, environment an minor matters like jewellery and grinding options. Balance this root cause first. I said before that every realm must have same jewellery, portions of other realm's environments in their own and same grinding potential options.

Secondly, there is simply not enough to do in the WZ. Few objectives will result in population explosions in various locations around the war zone. The hot spots happen to be saves and forts / castles. Unless you are a grinder or hunter ( I use the term Hunter here as a player who is hunting, not the hunter class) it makes no sense to be anywhere else.
As a side issue specific to Horus, invasions have become practically a non issue now because
a: Gates are fairly easy to defend
b: Horus lacks populations to make a real contest of it
c: the prizes are hardly worth the effort required
d: No realm actually has the organisational structure to pull it off regularly anymore
e: it requires marginal skill and more mob tactics with area spams and is over fairly quickly.

A solution is to form more diverse objectives, ( suggestions for this have been discussed to death elsewhere) and different combinations with different rewards for these objectives. Even different rewards coming with different combinations of the currently available objectives would be a bonus.

Thirdly, RP makes absolutely no sense in its present format. I mean it has no practical use or even fits into a RvR mould or concept. It is just like the visual features and structures NGD put in the game that have nothing attached to them, presumably for them to finish later. RP is simply an unfinished concept.

I suggest RP be abolished altogether or, RP be used ONLY for a realm building process.
Specifically,RP must be abolished as a personal milestone and instead tabulated and used for the realm building as a whole. It is a RvR game after all and RP are 'Realm Points'.
Such an approach will foster realm organisation and stifle the ever growing problem of selfish and self serving behaviour in this game.
RP should be collected by players and be allowed to be spent on things like fort upgrades, pool RP to special NPCs to let them open portals to islands with objectives or activate new super bosses. Bonuses in the form of medals or awards be presented to those who donate RP regularly and likewise negative awards be given for those who horde RP to use as bragging rights. Under no circumstances should RP give a bonus that enables a player to gain singular advantage over another player. To do so will simply encourage distasteful gameplay.
I introduce a new concept here now. Players with a certain positive medal level be assigned a small amount of RP monthly that they can either give or minus from a certain player. I am not talking big numbers here. Maybe 10 RPS or so. Mind you, I am suggesting the player can add or remove from a player in their own realm, not the opponents. Such a thing may be a start to regulating players by their own realm mates. Designating a "dunce cap" approach may also work. The player can donate some RPS towards "correcting a player". If enough RP pools to trigger the event then the player gets the negative medal for the week. It may help to moderate behaviour.

There are many things that RP pool donations can be used for like realm wide reductions in repair costs, arrow costs, opening hidden quests, spawning dragon (which would reduce the dragon loggers because they would actually have to contribute RP to get the thing spawned )giving leader mobs better drop %, increasing mob spawn inside the realms. I could go on and on.

If such a system was implemented then realm and clan rankings would then be composed of the medal counts rather than raw RPS.

Of course the issue of RP is a rather complex one and requires deep discussion about its equitable distribution . That, however is a topic for another thread. Before I drag on I will end here for now.

Cheers,
Artec

Revolverxxx · 03-10-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bois

I suggest RP be abolished altogether or, RP be used ONLY for a realm building process.
Specifically,RP must be abolished as a personal milestone and instead tabulated and used for the realm building as a whole. It is a RvR game after all and RP are 'Realm Points'.

im pretty sure RP are 'Regnum Points' and not 'Realm Points'
but anyway thats not important

i agree totally with you that RP should be more than just a number next to your name. i made some suggestions a while back on some other thread about implementing a system where you spend your rp on items that will give you no advantage in battle (just aesthetical). things like the holloween masks and christmas hats that have negative stat bonuses so that can just be used for the sake of style when not fighting.

the idea is to encourage more ppl to take part in wars and if the realms could match each other in numbers, farming wouldnt happen

Hamster_of_sorrow · 03-10-2010, 03:31 PM

when you get such a huge zerg like syrtis can, it forms a mind of its own. it is incredibly hard to control. i appreciate all who try to break up zergs, it makes it easier on the ones being farmed.

i always get mad at syrtis for farming but i cant help but remember that ignis used to do the same just 1 year ago.

i have read many of the reasons why people picked the realms they did. and most of syrtis was because "it looked good". that is kind of a problem i guess. what would you rather pick? beautiful woods, a desert, or a snowstorm?

bois · 03-10-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolverxxx

im pretty sure RP are 'Regnum Points' and not 'Realm Points'
but anyway thats not important

i agree totally with you that RP should be more than just a number next to your name. i made some suggestions a while back on some other thread about implementing a system where you spend your rp on items that will give you no advantage in battle (just aesthetical). things like the holloween masks and christmas hats that have negative stat bonuses so that can just be used for the sake of style when not fighting.

the idea is to encourage more ppl to take part in wars and if the realms could match each other in numbers, farming wouldnt happen

Indeed it is friend, I wish it was renamed "realm points". It might then invite some use.

03-10-2010, 09:47 AM	#1
Thrillem Secondary account Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 153	About Syrtis "zerging-farming" I just wanted to make this thread because some people (among them some "Syrtians" who spend hours dancing at CS and only move for Eve or Vesper time and who rarely come to battle -and when they come the hard work is already done) blame the (other) Syrtians of "farming" like it was a crime. First of all, you (CS-dancers and others) cannot blame all the Syrtians of "farming" or of "zerging stupidity" as Klutu has once said. There are some players -like in Alsius or Ignis-who are obssesed with getting rp but you cannot blame everybody because then you blame yourself too. As for myself when I get bored because there is little resistance from the other realm I try to convince others to go somewhere else, often without success. Only a few people are capable of taking command of the zerg and convince others of doing something else but in fact there is not really much else to do in the wz than taken forts/castles. So the problem is not Syrtis but the game in its current state (read NGD). If Alsius or Ignis had higher population than Syrtis they would do the same. If there were other things to do in the wz or if Horus had a larger population -like maybe Ra?- then we all could have more fun, I suppose.

03-10-2010, 10:37 AM	#2
Freduardo Initiate Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 107	Agreed. In the few comments I've made here about numbers imbalance I always tried to specify that it's not just Syrtis who farm. All realms have a (evergrowing) number of players who's sole concern is their own RP count. Given that Syrtis is the realm that outnumbers the other 2 most of the time, you'll also have the biggerst share of RP-whores. And of course there's also the newer player, who "grows up" seeing nothing but hiding inside forts and farming. Splitting up at zerg intentionally is maybe hard to do (unintentionally however ... :P). As for RP. There have been a few suggestions of adding a purpose to those numbers. However imho, even if it's just a cosmetic reward, this would only promote farming and rp-whoring even more. For me personaly, the only way to deal with it given the current game's state, is to make fun of everyone who mentions his or her rp count like it matters. It would help if NGD fixed some spells and re-added cooldown on cancelled spells to give the outnumbered force some more 'tools' to work with, but I guess that's food for one of the other topics ... __________________ Fredu'Cya

03-10-2010, 10:47 AM	#3
Revolverxxx Initiate Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Probably in the bathroom Posts: 139	i dont get whats so bad about people gaining rp. this is a war game and your aim is to defeat the other realm and defeating them gives you rp... why would you want that to stop, thats what makes the game what it is. i personally would like to see more people taking part in the wars. i agree that id like to see more to this game than just fort wars all the time but in time ngd will implement things like that. i think the game is fine the way it is and it can only get better from here __________________ REVOLVER -retired- "There is nothing more uncommon than common sense" -Frank Lloyd Wright

03-10-2010, 01:53 PM	#7
bois Count Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Trinidad and Tobago Posts: 1,194	This issue has been discussed 'ad nauseum' in my view. Again,I must say that Syrtis zerging and resulting Rp whoring etc is merely A SYMPTOM of underlying issues in the game. Firstly, it speaks to imbalances in the basic design and structure of the realms all the way down to psychological issues like races, colours, environment an minor matters like jewellery and grinding options. Balance this root cause first. I said before that every realm must have same jewellery, portions of other realm's environments in their own and same grinding potential options. Secondly, there is simply not enough to do in the WZ. Few objectives will result in population explosions in various locations around the war zone. The hot spots happen to be saves and forts / castles. Unless you are a grinder or hunter ( I use the term Hunter here as a player who is hunting, not the hunter class) it makes no sense to be anywhere else. As a side issue specific to Horus, invasions have become practically a non issue now because a: Gates are fairly easy to defend b: Horus lacks populations to make a real contest of it c: the prizes are hardly worth the effort required d: No realm actually has the organisational structure to pull it off regularly anymore e: it requires marginal skill and more mob tactics with area spams and is over fairly quickly. A solution is to form more diverse objectives, ( suggestions for this have been discussed to death elsewhere) and different combinations with different rewards for these objectives. Even different rewards coming with different combinations of the currently available objectives would be a bonus. Thirdly, RP makes absolutely no sense in its present format. I mean it has no practical use or even fits into a RvR mould or concept. It is just like the visual features and structures NGD put in the game that have nothing attached to them, presumably for them to finish later. RP is simply an unfinished concept. I suggest RP be abolished altogether or, RP be used ONLY for a realm building process. Specifically,RP must be abolished as a personal milestone and instead tabulated and used for the realm building as a whole. It is a RvR game after all and RP are 'Realm Points'. Such an approach will foster realm organisation and stifle the ever growing problem of selfish and self serving behaviour in this game. RP should be collected by players and be allowed to be spent on things like fort upgrades, pool RP to special NPCs to let them open portals to islands with objectives or activate new super bosses. Bonuses in the form of medals or awards be presented to those who donate RP regularly and likewise negative awards be given for those who horde RP to use as bragging rights. Under no circumstances should RP give a bonus that enables a player to gain singular advantage over another player. To do so will simply encourage distasteful gameplay. I introduce a new concept here now. Players with a certain positive medal level be assigned a small amount of RP monthly that they can either give or minus from a certain player. I am not talking big numbers here. Maybe 10 RPS or so. Mind you, I am suggesting the player can add or remove from a player in their own realm, not the opponents. Such a thing may be a start to regulating players by their own realm mates. Designating a "dunce cap" approach may also work. The player can donate some RPS towards "correcting a player". If enough RP pools to trigger the event then the player gets the negative medal for the week. It may help to moderate behaviour. There are many things that RP pool donations can be used for like realm wide reductions in repair costs, arrow costs, opening hidden quests, spawning dragon (which would reduce the dragon loggers because they would actually have to contribute RP to get the thing spawned )giving leader mobs better drop %, increasing mob spawn inside the realms. I could go on and on. If such a system was implemented then realm and clan rankings would then be composed of the medal counts rather than raw RPS. Of course the issue of RP is a rather complex one and requires deep discussion about its equitable distribution . That, however is a topic for another thread. Before I drag on I will end here for now. Cheers, Artec Last edited by bois; 03-10-2010 at 02:03 PM.

03-10-2010, 03:31 PM	#9
Hamster_of_sorrow Self-called retired user Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In NGD's ticket system hoping for a response. Posts: 517	when you get such a huge zerg like syrtis can, it forms a mind of its own. it is incredibly hard to control. i appreciate all who try to break up zergs, it makes it easier on the ones being farmed. i always get mad at syrtis for farming but i cant help but remember that ignis used to do the same just 1 year ago. i have read many of the reasons why people picked the realms they did. and most of syrtis was because "it looked good". that is kind of a problem i guess. what would you rather pick? beautiful woods, a desert, or a snowstorm?