Creepy O.o

[ArcticWolf]

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

In a way I agree with you Xeph, for it's true the feeling of "suffering" stems from an internal source...

This internal source stems from man's lack of knowledge about the causations that occur around him (his external world, which is affected by his actions or his internal world, which is affected by the external world); thus the attribution of "suffering" comes from man trying to make sense of things that go wrong in her/his life, but is unable to make sense of it...

You would agree that man is an interesting creature, would you not Xeph?

For man, above all creatures on this earth, has an ability to reason which allows him to use abstract concepts to solve problems, to organize data, to travel space, to code all that is living or created into zeros and ones...

In a way, this ability of man is the ability to look at a mountain and while looking at it, he not only wills the mountain to move, but actually makes the mountain move...

And man does this mostly through pure reason now, for technology and the brains behind it have surpassed man's brute strength...

.'.

Yes, humans are interesting. We're different from other animals since we can see the world through abstract concepts, indeed. We're not the only ones who can do it, but humans are top in the list.

We have learned to harness the power of thinking over the brute force. The laws of nature are like a clockwork machine, and humans know how that machine works, at least in part. This knowledge about the world is what made us what we're now, a flourishing (and potentially dangerous) race.

You stated some time ago that the main drive to human behaviour is impelled by lack. The pain is caused by the lack of awareness on the events that occurs in his environment, and hence it is reflected through suffering.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

Yet there is something that lies beyond man's reasoning powers, and his brute strength...

A place that does not lie within this world of flesh...
A world that most of us visit in our dreams, or altered states of consciousness...
A world that, at times, impresses on us and a "gut feeling" arises, a premonition...

During those times, and yes there are many that have had this happen too - far to much to ignore such data, man cannot explain what was witnessed...

Current models of science cannot explain it, so what is man to do?

The scientist says, "in these cases of unexplained phenomena man creates religion" ...

The religious say, "in these cases of unexplained phenomena man creates science to explain that which he does not understand about god" ...

And so it goes... on and on... on and on... and on till man will no longer exist...

.'.

It is our nature to reason everything, to find an action~reaction pair. We look for patterns, we need them to compress and cataloge all the information we can have about the world. This is because our brain has limits like every biological machine.

Sometimes this fails. We can't find a pattern that's logical enough, or we can't gather the information we need... Those undeniable facts that cannot be explained do have a reason, so humans build up a world where everything fits perfectly. We can do it because the world is, indeed, an abstract concept to us.

This is the Human condition. Our world is just a thought, an idea, and it is shaped by experience. This experience is previously "distorted"[1] by the delicate balance between our animal part (feelings) and logic. This is what makes us so unique and different between us.

[1] I can't find a better word, but it's not exactly what I mean.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

The truth is science alone cannot explain everything, nor can religion alone...

It's my belief that humanity needs both...

For with both man's need to explain will be more successful then with just one option alone...

We will never be able to know it all, but we need to fill those gaps with something. Religion is, in my opinion, a temporal "best bower" which helps us to sleep at night without worrying about those voids in knowledge.

Originally Posted by Hell_bound

But let me state this one final belief...

Technology has helped man much throughout the centuries, but man has been perverted by it...

The perversion starts when man placed himself at the center of the universe and thought that natural law does not apply to him...

Man in his quest to unravel the mysteries of god has forgotten his place...

And because of this technology, especially modern technology (think zeros and ones), man has built himself a new Tower of Babel...

If only man would have learned from his last endeavor of such a feat...

This song seems to fit perfectly with the topic:

Originally Posted by Age Of Shadows - Ayreon

Tom:
We never saw this coming
Pride comes before our fall
We never heeded the warning
Buried deep within us all

Steve: (Daniel)
The age of shadows has begun
(Giant machines blot out the sun)
Frozen lands becoming known
(The age of shadows has begun)
The age of shadows has begun
(I won't accept what we've become)
We stand to lose more than we've won
(The age of shadows has begun)

Tom:
Our quenchless thirst for knowledge
Our urge to change and grow
Our need to extermination
Made us rise from the depths below

Steve: (Daniel)
The age of shadows has begun
(Giant machines blot out the sun)
Frozen lands becoming known
(The age of shadows has begun)
The age of shadows has begun
(I won't accept what we've become)
We stand to lose more than we've won
(The age of shadows has begun)

Hansi: (Floor)
No more repression
(No more initiative)
No more suppression
(No more emotions)
No more recession
(No more of all the feelings we shared that made us who we really are)
No more possession
(No more euphoria)
No more obsessions
(No more sensations)
No more depression
(No more of all the passions we shaped our hearts and made us who we really are)

(Jonas)
Time...
but a passageway
The beginning of the end
an end that never was

Time...
but a curve a space

We are forever
Eternal prisoners in time
Oh, we are forever
caught in our cold inertia

Longing, hoping, waiting
For nothing

(Anneke)
Forever we are
Forever we learn
Forever we live a lie
Forever slipping by and
Forever we flee
Forever we will be
Forever is but a dream
Forever is but a scream and
Forever we try
Forever we die

The spell of love wore off
The zest for life not enough

Longing, hoping, waiting
Never enough...

01101000
01100101
01101100
01110000

off on on off off on on off
off on on off on on on on
off on on on off off on off
off on on off off on off on
off on on on off on on off
off on on off off on on off
off on on on off off on off

no yes yes yes no no yes
no yes yes no yes yes yes yes
no yes yes yes no no yes yes

(Forever we try)
(Forever we die)
(Forever...)

Longing, hoping, waiting
For no one...

Hansi: (Floor)
No more repression
(No more initiative)
No more suppression
(No more emotions)
No more recession
(No more of all the feelings we shared that made us who we really are)
No more possession
(No more euphoria)
No more obsessions
(No more sensations)
No more depression
(No more of all the passions we shaped our hearts and made us who we really are)

Steve: (Daniel)
The age of shadows has begun
(Giant machines blot out the sun)
Frozen lands becoming known
(The age of shadows has begun)
The age of shadows has begun
(I won't accept what we've become)
We stand to lose more than we've won
(The age of shadows has begun)
The age of shadows has begun
(Giant machines blot out the sun)
Frozen lands becoming known
(The age of shadows has begun)
The age of shadows has begun
(I won't accept what we've become)
We stand to lose more than we've won
(The age of shadows has begun)

Tom:
We never heeded the warning
Buried deep within us all

On a side note: When writing this post I've noticed it took me more time than usual. It seems I need more pratice.