Why classes become overpowered

[seba_ktupe]

I dread to think that GIGO is right, all subclasses have got strong and weak point,you need different powers for killing different subclases

[GIGO305]

Originally Posted by seba_ktupe

I dread to think that GIGO is right, all subclasses have got strong and weak point,you need different powers for killing different subclases

this truly is RO's secret: i learned this belive it or not from RS that has no subclass but extra skills and it always was the one with best skills that won wich made me great at pking pkers for under estimating uder skills. in RS wariors always beat archers, archers mages and mages wariors because of the armor they wore. but in RO it all depends on you because we choose our set ups armor with more options and this game also aplays personal skill with other classes. any class that plays right can sucesfully run away from another and/or kill them aginst all odds.

what people need is to stop whinning and learn how to play, in other words live with it.

[Mattdoesrock]

To magnet - I didnt say that I didnt think certain classes were overpowered, as I do . Having spent half of yesterday and half of today in the arena against Marks, I can now say that I think they are overpowered.

I certainly agree with what you are saying. But you have to agree with DMC, at least a little bit.

To gigo - You said that barbs were easy to kill.



Hehe. Sorry, no hard feelings, couldnt resist It was at war anyway

[CumeriTarenes]

Either you think this:

Originally Posted by Mattdoesrock

Not because I dont want to agree with you, but it takes out the / my arguement of; "Damn they beat me! That class / spell is so overpowered."

When in reality its perhaps not because they're over powered, but because they're a better / smarter player.

Or this:

Originally Posted by Mattdoesrock

To magnet - I didnt say that I didnt think certain classes were overpowered, as I do . Having spent half of yesterday and half of today in the arena against Marks, I can now say that I think they are overpowered.

I am confused...

Originally Posted by magnet

Here it goes: Warlock or Warjurer sees me. Attacks me. Me resists. Me evades. But during that time I casted Death Sentence, starting taking my range back while casting Serpents bite, a few hits with recharge arrows (300 to 600 critical on mages), when they're low, they go for energy barrier, oh too bad, I cast Ethereal arrow, you dead anyway!

erm...cast wind wall and the marks will miss death sentence most probably...and if not, go near to the marks and death sentence is useless, at least when no other ranged classes are attacking you. And you want to protect yourself from taking high damage? You can have 1000 hp every 40 sec (energy barrier), you can cast protection dome. Once you lost hp or mana you can steal it from your enemy.
I agree, that when a marks sees a mage first the mage will have a bad time when the marks casts burst of wind at long range. But when someone sees another one first the agressor has always an advantage, no matter which class vs. which class.

Also you should consider that archers are the only class that has no auras/area ally spells all all. That means they are designed in a way that allows them to be more powerfull than other classes with single target/area enemy spells. But actually warocks spells are more powerful in the result, just lower range and longer casting time makes warlocks spells loosing some power.

I also don't think that marksmen's defence is too good. The only odd game design is that most of archer's evasion is in one skill tree. On the one hand that makes defence quite cheap because you just have to lvl up one tree for defence but on the other hand it is quite a big sacrifice to put points into a skill tree that has not a single spell which can be used on enemies, especially as an offensive class that a marksman is.

In general, when you compare defences of all offensive classes there is not that much of a difference. barbs are having caution, unstoppable madness, several passives to get dmg resistance and quite a lot of hp, marks are having
just about 200hp more than mages, spell elude, evasive tactics, strategic position, acrobatics and evade chance passive, warlocks are having energy barrier, spells to get mana/hp back, windwall, protection dome and some dmg resistance passives. Just to name the most important ones.

Of course I cannot realy see how it is to play other classes than archers, but I saw quite a lot other classes fighting against me and against others. And from this point I would say archers, and ecpecially marksmen are not that overpowered that they can eat others. I have a fair chance to win as well as to loose when fighting against others, that is what gives me the feeling that classes are quite balanced.

There are some minor corrections that have to be done in my opion, but this are not issues that would make one class totally overpowered.

minor issues I would like NGD would think about it again:

- combination camo+sotw
- effect of confuse on support conjus
- archers evasion tree, maybe split it up in other trees.
- warrior damage cap, maybe 1,5k dmg, because one hit kills are not this what I consider to be fun for both sides
- ranged attack damage cap, maybe 1k
- increase speed for knights sprint or improve duration/cooldown ratio to make playing knight on hunts more fun. should be knights only since barbs have onslaught already
- give knights (maybe barbs too, not sure about it) an INT passive. This would give more mana, faster mana regeneration and more spell resistance.

[Signatus]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

minor issues I would like NGD would think about it again:

- combination camo+sotw
- effect of confuse on support conjus
- archers evasion tree, maybe split it up in other trees.
- barb damage cap, maybe 1,5k dmg, because one hit kills are not this what I consider to be fun for both sides
- ranged attack damage cap, maybe 1k
- increase speed for knights sprint or improve duration/cooldown ratio to make playing knight on hunts more fun. speed increasement should be knights only since barbs have onslaught already
- give knights (maybe barbs too, not sure about it) an INT passive. This would give more mana, faster mana regeneration and more spell resistance.

- I really don't care, it's fine as it is, rewards to fort fights should be top priority.
- good conjus share DI's first between themselves and then on allies since the cooldown is shorter then the spell duration.
- ah, ok...
- NO, NEVER, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. Fun for both sides is understanding each other weaknesses. Use beetle swarm, use brain piercing, use stunning fist, use sticky touch. use... gah... then what use will have the enchantments tree, how the hell will you fight for forts, who's going to play a game with capped features leaving players imagination and tactical ability to *limited* options?
- same as before.
- ah, ok! ... /me switches to the hunter: "HOW THE HELL A FULL ARMORED MIDGET WITH A SHIELD TWICE HIS SIZE CAUGHT ME??!!!"
- ok, more int doesn't hurt anyone does it? (block+evasion+spell resistance+magic dmg soaking spells+physical dmg soaking spells+extra block layer+extra extra block layer with Red or DF+extra extra extra block layer with "bubble boy"... gah, mana please... yet again.)

[e30G]

Originally Posted by Signatus

- good conjus share DI's first between themselves and then on allies since the cooldown is shorter then the spell duration.

That is the ideal situation, unfortunately in my experience I often find myself as the lone conjurer in the group. In that case I have one of 2 options, continue with them or leave them and head back to the save. Usually I don't bother. I'd rather not run a long way only to be rendered useless in one spell. Now I started another character so I won't be using my conjurer for quite some time.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

I agree with magnet.

I just think the chancespells should be removed, luck can't be modified. Resist/evade/blocking rates toned down. Then it's ALL about strategy and you suck if you die. And you won't die because you're unlucky, you have things to learn then, and you will always learn something new, you can't learn luck. Then you can start discussing balance.

[CumeriTarenes]

without luck it is who makes the first hit wins...

when I imagine every spell would realy hit me that a warlock casts on me...oh well, I would be dead meat, as soon as the warlock brings meteor on me. On the other side...when I can dizzy the warlock first, death sentence, serpent bite, winter stroke, stun fist, ambush...running out of range.


When all the spells would hit it would be boring I think....every fight would be quite the same

Originally Posted by Signatus

- I really don't care, it's fine as it is, rewards to fort fights should be top priority.
- good conjus share DI's first between themselves and then on allies since the cooldown is shorter then the spell duration.
- ah, ok...
- NO, NEVER, NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. Fun for both sides is understanding each other weaknesses. Use beetle swarm, use brain piercing, use stunning fist, use sticky touch. use... gah... then what use will have the enchantments tree, how the hell will you fight for forts, who's going to play a game with capped features leaving players imagination and tactical ability to *limited* options?
- same as before.
- ah, ok! ... /me switches to the hunter: "HOW THE HELL A FULL ARMORED MIDGET WITH A SHIELD TWICE HIS SIZE CAUGHT ME??!!!"
- ok, more int doesn't hurt anyone does it? (block+evasion+spell resistance+magic dmg soaking spells+physical dmg soaking spells+extra block layer+extra extra block layer with Red or DF+extra extra extra block layer with "bubble boy"... gah, mana please... yet again.)

- often there is only one conju. Gal described the situation very well I think.
- so you agree?
- ok...maybe I have to clarify why I said I wish a dmg cap. Actually it would be enough to tone down ripost and south cross a bit, means either in the effect or increase mana cost or increase cool down. At the moment it is just too much damage for only a a very few effort.
- I just brought up a range damage cap because it would be just fair to have it when you have a melee weapon cap
- just a little more speed. Also, it does not matter if it makes sence if a heavy armoured class can run fast since it is a fantasy game. It also does not makes sence to cast spells at all then...
I thought about giving spring for knights 1% more speed each lvl, so that at lvl 5 they would have 35% speed bonus instead of 30%. It is just for small sprints to reach an enemy or to rush in.
- I asked for more int because it would make knights even more tanks, since they will resist more and they will have more mana to buff others and them self more.

[e30G]

Agreed. A whole new issue on balance will appear if you remove luck. Warlocks will need definite toning down of their spells.

[Angelwinged_Devil]

Originally Posted by CumeriTarenes

without luck it is who makes the first hit wins...

when I imagine every spell would realy hit me that a warlock casts on me...oh well, I would be dead meat, as soon as the warlock brings meteor on me. On the other side...when I can dizzy the warlock first, death sentence, serpent bite, winter stroke, stun fist, ambush...running out of range.


When all the spells would hit it would be boring I think....every fight would be quite the same

Not really, you'd just have to be smarter. Not luckier