Balance Update 2011 - Stage 1 - Initial Discussion

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One of my older posts, which i consider as crucial:

"Another important thing is:

You can actually defeat an army larger than yours, with superior teamplay,
a well coordinated rush, or a surprise attack (for example: under stalker surroundings).
AEs of all sorts are extremely important here, CC efffects too
It is further crucial, that you can weaken your enemy by killing more and more players in each attack, even if you are losing the battle.
That´s why it isn´t a bad thing at all if someone can kill multiple enemies, if everything is done perfectly.
That´s why it isn´t a bad thing, that someone (or a whole group) can be taken out of the battle for some time.

I generally like the way it is done now, it is really possible to defeat a considerably larger army in your fort. There are limits of course. If the zergs are to many,more and more people of the outnumbered realm will "surrender" and everything is lost. If this is happening to often people will cease to play the game, and things will get even worse.

Because the battles will always be asymetric in RO, this is an important thing to consider by balancing everything in this game. There has to be a wide margin, where smaller armies can defeat larger armies. This game has to be balnced in a different way than DotA, competitive Counter Strike,... for example, where both "armies" are even."

"Offensive beacon" was (is) close to be a gamebreaker in this regard.
Apart from that CCs are fun in general, simple "Hack & Slay" is absolutely not cool. Knockdowns are particularly needed in front of the door as well.
Balance the game but do not erase functionality.
Invent other/new interesting "effect spells", create situational (no general and durable All-in-One spells like "Offensive Beacon") Anti-CC spells, enhance or patch unused skills/spells, these things...

[HidraA]

Referal Armor calculator

http://kit.snuggly1.com/

Marksman calculation point for a lvl 50 armor:

http://fulga.u-s.ro/fotos/marksman_png.png

Hunter calculation for a lvl 50 armor:

http://fulga.u-s.ro/fotos/hunter_png.png

A normal hunter armor complete set for lvl 50 has very good protection VS piercing that is +30% bonus vs piercing and has total points 1067 and 533 damage resist.

A normal marksman armor complete set for lvl 50 has bad protection VS piercing that is -15% bonus vs piercing and has total points 747 and 373 damage resist.

Diference Marksman -45% lower resist at piercing than a hunter.

Keep in your mind all bows have base of dmg piercing and not other kind of dmg.

So think twice before give a way Strategic position.....all hunters and marks hater will be happy.

But think a bit more what will happen when hunter will get other +30% resistance....even with all bufs from marx will not be able to make normals dmg from hunter and on hunter.

So if a hunter will have all dmg items with piercing will nuke a marks in a few hits...some kind a new exploit.
+SS and confuse will be unstopable.

[Vroek]

All new armor drops have random resists.

If you buy WM armor for actually use, then you can easily compensate flaws with the extra resist slots.

[HidraA]

Originally Posted by Vroek

..... extra resist slots.

That is premium only.....

[Latan]

Originally Posted by HidraA

A normal hunter armor complete set for lvl 50 has very good protection VS piercing that is +30% bonus vs piercing and has total points 1067 and 533 damage resist.

A normal marksman armor complete set for lvl 50 has bad protection VS piercing that is -15% bonus vs piercing and has total points 747 and 373 damage resist.

1) the cap level is 60, not 50
2) armors now have random protection
3) good/very good is no more 15%/30% from AGES

you're talking about another game

[Vroek]

Originally Posted by HidraA

That is premium only.....

Im fairly sure none want to use WM armor if they dont use the slots, they rather use any armor drop (with random resists) they can find.

[no-body]

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

It's true, your example is invalid - hunter made a mistake, instead of running away, he started attacking barb with ensnaring arrow, and casted mobility too late.
UM lasts only 10s, Spring also (+25% speed). Mobility (+10% speed) lasts 20s, and Wild Spirit (+7% speed) is passive skill, so it works all the time.
Let assume the archer stands at min-max distance of 20 from barb, and their base speed is the same, and equal 1m/s.
When Hunter runs away (without shooting ensnaring arrow) from barb, he can easily keep distance of 19m (and barb can do damage in range of at most 8).
Here are equations I used: http://mathbin.net/64269
and here are two charts:
- hunter and barbarian distance from initial point over time:

- their distance to each other:

as you can see barbarian has no chance catching a hunter if the hunter makes no mistake (e.g. starts running away with mobility as soon as he sees the barb).

Originally Posted by DemonMonger

I agree that every class should have a tactic to eliminate their foes. However, an additional ranged slow skill will not work well with barbs in this game.

I also gave other suggestions. If feint is going to be removed and not replaced by slow spell, make onslaught castable on caster, or spring duration longer.

[HuntShot]

Originally Posted by no-body

It's true, your example is invalid - hunter made a mistake, instead of running away, he started attacking barb with ensnaring arrow, and casted mobility too late.
UM lasts only 10s, Spring also (+25% speed). Mobility (+10% speed) lasts 20s, and Wild Spirit (+7% speed) is passive skill, so it works all the time.
Let assume the archer stands at min-max distance of 20 from barb, and their base speed is the same, and equal 1m/s.
When Hunter runs away (without shooting ensnaring arrow) from barb, he can easily keep distance of 19m (and barb can do damage in range of at most 8).
Here are equations I used: http://mathbin.net/64269
and here are two charts:
- hunter and barbarian distance from initial point over time:
http://i.imgur.com/yZHey.jpg
- their distance to each other:
http://i.imgur.com/pIzl2.jpg
as you can see barbarian has no chance catching a hunter if the hunter makes no mistake (e.g. starts running away with mobility as soon as he sees the barb).


I also gave other suggestions. If feint is going to be removed and not replaced by slow spell, make onslaught castable on caster, or spring duration longer.

Blablabla, numbers numbers etc. this is how it works on paper.. Let's see how it works in game... totally different

[tjanex]

The problem is that mobility is totally crap, long CD for only a few +% speed. While Barbs can spam their spring, and as Hunter I don't just want to run away, I want to kill something...

Also the new Ambush is pretty crappy, how on earth do we have to hit a rushing barb with his kick that is instant, this is how it works in-game I think:

Barb rushes, Hunter turns around, too late! Instant Kick kaboom Hunt on the ground --> rape!

[no-body]

Originally Posted by tjanex

While Barbs can spam their spring, and as Hunter I don't just want to run away, I want to kill something...

I think you are forgetting that hunter is defensive class - he shouldn't aim to kill a prepared barb (unless it's low lvl / very easy or unchallenging :P). His best weapon is surprise attack from camo (kill grinders using ambush, dual shot/shield piercing, and ensnaring arrow, etc.).

Originally Posted by tjanex

Also the new Ambush is pretty crappy

I agree with this.

Originally Posted by tjanex

Barb rushes, Hunter turns around, too late! Instant Kick kaboom Hunt on the ground --> rape!

That's the case only when hunter gets too close to barb, at distance 20 hunter has enough time to turn around, cast mobility and run away.

Originally Posted by HuntShot

Blablabla, numbers numbers etc. this is how it works on paper.. Let's see how it works in game... totally different

blablabla