Combat system test - Amun - Phase 2

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by kuccio87

How will be the gameplay is a big issue.
I play conju as well, it is my favourite class, and i know that 1 sec of delay can be enough to see your ally dead. Conju should stay as it is now, you already chaned it a lot making it harder to play, now you want to make things even worse?

Originally Posted by Mellion

I tested Amun again. I am still shocked. Those changes are still crazy and will let me stop playing 100%.

The change of the combat system is in the first place a technical change which allows better balancing tweaks especially in regard to classspecific tweaks. The system is implemented for the good. Now general decisions have to be set (such as movement&casting rules). Then the fine tuning can start(such as dmg modifiers, casttimes for single spells not following general rules, gcd time tweaks etc.).

Dont you see they try and do the best to get that fucking complicated thing working, tweaked, fixed and improved 24/7 last days? Also they listen, discuss and communicate open with the community about our ideas and feelings about the changes.

Big Kudos to the way this update gets worked on. Fucking annoys me all the moaning to get back a system which is flawed like the old one. Try to help get the good things translated to the new system ffs. Negativity doesnt help at all. Stick with constructive criticism if possible.

[v0rt3x]

Originally Posted by Onteron

Yeah as others posted above, there's currently a bug: whevever you cast a spell, for all buttons on your spellbar that are currently in cooldown, the cooldown animation starts again. (Doesn't affect CD animations in the spellbook or the actual CD values on the server.) The problem's also made worse by the point I mentioned above.

I'm sure they'll fix it first thing today since it kinda makes everything else hard to test

Can confirm this bug.

And an old bug still exists:
Track Realm Enemy - Casttime: 1,5 sek <-- thats ok, but the animation is still 3 sek, so the animation is still 1,5 sek too long!

And please don´t let us wait so long for the first normal hit/shot (ranged classes). So the game goes staticly and not dynamicly.

[e30G]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

The change of the combat system is in the first place a technical change which allows better balancing tweaks especially in regard to classspecific tweaks. The system is implemented for the good. Now general decisions have to be set (such as movement&casting rules). Then the fine tuning can start(such as dmg modifiers, casttimes for single spells not following general rules, gcd time tweaks etc.).

I agree with this. At this point in time, NGD and the players should focus on getting things to work and keep the game enjoyable. For this update at least, there is a healthy exchange of opinions between NGD and the players. I hope it doesn't end into a one-sided decision.

However, I think it's also healthy for players to express their concerns Enio. It gives a general idea on whether or not the coming update is a good thing or bad thing. Isemon is one of the people who expressed his concerns nicely with reason.

[Znurre]

About the "warriors casting non-instants while moving" discussion, here is my point of view:

I think this is a pretty reasonable change that will perhaps give warriors this little "extra" missing to spice them up in war - while still not making them too overpowered.
Because, something many people here seem to forget about is: casting an area while moving will only give you this benefit, you will still not be able to attack or cast any other skills/buffs during this time which will still make the warrior very vurnable to attacks.
I am not even sure if a speed reduction would be required.

What would be needed though is an indicator that a moving warrior is casting.
Maybe an icon above his head, a special stance?
I'd like to take some inspiration from Savage 2 here, using sprites on the ground beneath the player just like with Arcane Devotion for example.

A warrior who is moving while casting could get a circle beneath him on the ground, indicating that he is casting something.
Maybe also different look depending on if he's casting a non-damaging skill or not.

As for the problem with warriors starting to cast a skill in a safe area and then moving into an army unleashing it...
In a fort scenario, going trough the door would ofcourse still cancel the casting like always.

Also remember that the maximum casting time for a warrior area is 3 seconds.
And seriously, how far can you move in 3 seconds?
You would barely be able to move around a medium sized rock anyway, and besides whirlwind for example can already be used this way.

To me, enabling warriors to cast non-instant skills/buffs while moving would really add to the fun of the class.
Maybe it's what's needed to bring many players back to the class.

Consider it.

[Recoil]

Originally Posted by Znurre

Maybe an icon above his head, a special stance?

I agree. I have proposed this before and I will repeat: every spell should have an unique casting animation.

[Mellion]

Originally Posted by _Enio_

The change of the combat system is in the first place a technical change which allows better balancing tweaks especially in regard to classspecific tweaks. The system is implemented for the good....

It would be ok in an alpha Version but not 2.5y after beta finished.

Long term business, like RO, should be about trust between company and clients. But this trust is gone.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

I'm really puzzled with this new combat system, but i don't say "no", i'll simply try to get used to it. My only concern in to remove those "ghost hits". They are really distracting. I like Znurrue's suggestions. I also had mine. About animations. Why don't you guys split animations, make it two, pre and post casting animation (of course this is valid only for spells with casting time)?
For the time being bugs noticed:
Mindpush is still bugged, works only in direct contact.
Cool down of summon is started by casting ANY power, which make it practically impossible to cast it for the second time.
There is still need, sometimes, to hit spell button twice to cast, even while standing still.

NGD, you have still a lot to do, but seeing all those patches i know you're working hard. Keep up good work.

Now, to be mean. Sorry, but i'm angry and i have to tell. This thread has been hijacked by whining archers. AGAIN. Removing kiting ability is a very, very good thing for the balance.

[chassor]

Originally Posted by Znurre

As for the problem with warriors starting to cast a skill in a safe area and then moving into an army unleashing it...
In a fort scenario, going trough the door would ofcourse still cancel the casting like always.

why not simply let the spell where it was casted even if the barb moves , that avoid the "seek and destroy" exploit , area as are now you must think where to put it. even if i agree that warriors must be a bit more fast and dynamic , problems will occur and this "features" will be used and abused with the help of sprint and embes ...

[_Enio_]

Originally Posted by Mellion

It would be ok in an alpha Version but not 2.5y after beta finished.

Long term business, like RO, should be about trust between company and clients. But this trust is gone.

no doubt about the beta release but hey - ro prolly wouldnt exist now when they wovent have opened the game to get money.

To the efforts to fix basics now i can just say:
'Better late then never'

Also the current state can be considered broken and would not bring the game into the next year. Fist all moan about 'dirty fixes' and now where a better base to avoid dirty fixes gets implemented they earn bad vibes too. We get radical changes for the good of the game (enhanced gameplay dynamics, fixed combat system, new graphics). Improving the game just needs a proper base to work on. That base is shaping in 2009. See it positive, it has potential, especially when melee gets the dynamic gameplay-fun which ranged had over the last months. See it positive

[Heglin]

I guess most bugs on amun will be gone when the changes reach RA so my biggest concern is support Conjurers.

I've seen the numbers of support Conjurers drop really much the last few updates and i can't see that change with 1 sec cast time on Heal/regen Ally, synergy bond...

Since there is a class able to heal other classes it should be atleast as appealing for Conjurers to go for support as to go for damage.